Sahin: Rodgers is playing me in the wrong position

Zealous wrote:12 games is not nearly enough for a deep lying playmaker. Especially one so rusty as well.

Remember when Pool fans hated Lucas's guts? What if you got rid of him after 12 games?

Lucas didn't demand to continue being played as an AM when we hated his guts, instead he switched to where the coach thought he would have the most impact, trained hard to get back into the first team, and became one of our top players. I can't think of a better example of a player that did the opposite of Sahin in a similar situation.

Well of course there is always an assumption that a player is willing to work hard. If that isn't the case then that changes things completely.

So Sahin didn't even play one game alongside a proper DM in his preferred position?

most people who have such a drastic position towards sahin's ability are doing him great injustice. is it looking pretty shite for him right now? absolutely. but what brought him there are his problems at RM that resulted in a chain of suboptimal events that made him end up where he is today. of course it was his choice initially, but that doesn't make him a bad footballer given the circumstances he was in. especially that liverpool loan was just rubbish. how is a loan-player without a buy clause gonna cement his place in a team that strives for a solid foundation that is there to stay?

@Yohan - there sure do seem to be a lot of things that need to be absolutely perfect for Nuri Sahin to be even a competent player. Sure, he didn't play with a real DM, but neither did the other players, and he still got outplayed by Joe Allen and Jordan Henderson. I'm done responding to your excuses, clearly you're not interested in the facts.

@Toffer - I agree, I don't think Sahin is bad or has lost his talent. I do think, however, that his mentality might be off and that his workrate in games and training has declined, and unless he picks it back up he won't reach his level from a few years ago.

There's not really a lot of things. He just has to play in his preferred position alongside a DM. Playmakers need a defensive player besides them.

Secondly, he played around 5-6 games in his normal position. Considering he barely played last season, he needed more time to get settled in.

I'm not sure whose idea it was for his loan to end, however he could have been given more time like Henderson or Downing.

I still think Lucas-Sahin would have been a good long term solution for Liverpool's midfield.

How is a player who is on a season-long loan with no buy-out option a long-term solution to anything? Please, MT, stop attempting to make excuses and actually consider what's being said.

@ Toffer & Zealous: most (not all, mind you) LFC fans aren't questioning his ability and would have been ok with him remaining with the club for the entire season even with his wages had he not opted to publicly complain about his role in the squad. THAT is what we (or at least I) have a problem with. THAT is why we (I) wanted his loan ended. And THAT is why we (I) am now criticising him. He almost certainly is more talented than Henderson, Allen, and/or Shelvey but talent means nothing when a player cannot or will not put the club and the team first. Such a player is of no use to a club in Liverpool's current position. And such a player has no future at Bill Shankly's club, regardless of circumstances.

Well a buy out option could have been agreed on during the season.

What? There was never any indication of that from any of the involved parties, so which orifice are you pulling THAT out of?

Well it could have happened between January and the end of the season too.

Anyway by 'long term solution', I don't really mean the transfer itself, I mean that he's young and a top CM.

So you don't really mean anything at all, given that his age and position count for nothing if he's not at the club.

He would have been a good long term solution, had he of still been at the club.

Yohan Modric wrote:He would have been a good long term solution, had he of still been at the club.

That is A) not what you previously said and B) meaningless.

You are suggesting a club already in a difficult situation (chasing European places and beginning a rebuilding process) should have further complicated its situation by attempting to cater specifically to a loanee's needs when said loanee has given no indication of wanting to give the club the same consideration, and no involved party has given an indication of moving toward securing a permanent move... and a move that may not be realistic at all given the player's wages and potential transfer fee. How does any of that appeal to LFC or Rodgers in any way?

Once again, I am not attacking Sahin's talent or ability, I am upset over his apparent mentality during (and while speaking of) his time at the club. If fitness was the issue then playing in general would help, regardless of position. If form was the issue, then it begs the question of why he demanded to be moved from a position where he actually showed some form and influence to one where he repeatedly proved ineffective. A club in Liverpool's current position has no room for such passengers. Henderson, Downing, Shelvey, and previously Lucas outlived Sahin at LFC because when they struggled they were still willing to work hard for the club and play where asked, until such a time as they proved their apparent worth and did all (bar Shelvey, but he's young) find their way back to their preferred position; except Lucas, who made himself a place in a new role. That willingness to work and sacrifice and prove themselves is something that Sahin lacked during his time at LFC... he chose to whine to the media (and continues to) and blame others rather than but in the requisite effort that others did.

I said: "I still think Lucas-Sahin would have been a good long term solution for Liverpool's midfield."

Playing a player in his normal position isn't some sort of special need or a problem. There was no indication given, however it seemed reasonable for the loan to become permanent at the end of the season. I doubt he'd have cost all that much anyway. He cost Real Madrid 10m Euros, so he would have cost around 5-7m imo. He wasn't/isn't needed at Real Madrid.

Sahin was a top player who was loaned by Liverpool, not some backup worthy player. If a top player joins, the club has to at least play him in his correct position and give him time. The move being a loan was just a smokescreen imo. Guys like Henderson and Shelvey are young and Downing knows Liverpool is his last chance of a big club.

Sahin barely played last season at Real Madrid, so would he want to waste his time on the bench for almost 2 years? I doubt it. He joined Liverpool to play games, not to sit on the bench.

Sahin's just saying the truth. There's nothing wrong about complaining about playing in a position he doesn't like. Sure he may have succeeded in the AM position, but that doesn't mean he liked it. He probably succeed at LB too, doesn't mean he has to become a LB.

He waited around enough at Real Madrid last season.

Lucas - signed as an attacking midfielder and asked to play as a defensive midfielder.

Downing - signed as a left winger and was asked to play left back.

Henderson - signed as a central midfielder but has played mainly out wide.

Kuyt - signed as a striker but played predominantly out wide.

I'm sure there are many, many others who we have signed and asked to play out of position over the years. The difference is these players got on with it and never complained or sulked.

Sahin was just a bitter c*nt. Put your head down and play your best for the team wherever they play you.

I also think this puts into perspective just how good Gerrard is when Nuri Sahin apparently can't play 20 yards further up the pitch, whereas Stevie has played ST,SS,RM,AM,CM,DM,RB.

Yohan Modric wrote:I said: "I still think Lucas-Sahin would have been a good long term solution for Liverpool's midfield."

Playing a player in his normal position isn't some sort of special need or a problem. There was no indication given, however it seemed reasonable for the loan to become permanent at the end of the season. I doubt he'd have cost all that much anyway. He cost Real Madrid 10m Euros, so he would have cost around 5-7m imo. He wasn't/isn't needed at Real Madrid.

Sahin was a top player who was loaned by Liverpool, not some backup worthy player. If a top player joins, the club has to at least play him in his correct position and give him time. The move being a loan was just a smokescreen imo. Guys like Henderson and Shelvey are young and Downing knows Liverpool is his last chance of a big club.

Sahin barely played last season at Real Madrid, so would he want to waste his time on the bench for almost 2 years? I doubt it. He joined Liverpool to play games, not to sit on the bench.

Sahin's just saying the truth. There's nothing wrong about complaining about playing in a position he doesn't like. Sure he may have succeeded in the AM position, but that doesn't mean he liked it. He probably succeed at LB too, doesn't mean he has to become a LB.

He waited around enough at Real Madrid last season.

Yohan, once again you are not reading what LFC fans are saying.

-Sahin was a loan player with little prospects of signing with LFC due to his own ambiguity of choice and that Real Madrid had little intention of selling him below a near insurmountable price (based on release clause) to which the club deemed unnecessary.

-He was being paid 4 million Euros while being on loan and instead of justifying his price, he did not show the commitment and attitude needed to compete with his midfield competitors. Instead of proving his quality, it was a case of him whining and complaining on his position despite Allen, Henderson and Steven Gerrard all performing better than him. We tried him more than 5 times in a deep position, he had little influence and coasted through games. Rodger's then tried him out as a #10 in which he scored goals yet once again had little influence, bringing further conviction in BR's mind that this loanee player will not be in his future plans, considering in the end, that he was a player on loan, unlikely to be bought from Real Madrid. LFC fans like me wanted him to start based on his name alone and not his pathetic performances in which he looked near out of his depth along with being quite reliant on his left foot.

-Allen, Henderson, and even Shelvey kept their head down and competed for the midfield spot, meanwhile Sahin was busy complaining about his role and all circumstantial nonsense as if he is obliged to play, to which he was clearly not. His indirect ultimatums and failure to do anything relevant within his natural and advanced role led the decision to him being ostracised, while more earnest and actual LFC players continued to ply their trade in working a spot in the formation. He never was in any position to give ultimatums to Rodgers or LFC especially given his sub-par performances.

The club wasn't compelled to provide him anything unless he actually worked for it, to which he did not. We all are severely disappointed in his mentality and attitude, and couldn't care less if he left by then.

I think Sahin got caught in his own hype. His head got clouded and his attitude got worse, so he fell off the map. Serves him right, although he's a good guy and I do genuinely hope he succeeds with BVB.

5 games isn't enough to judge a player who barely played the previous season. If I were to watch each of the games where he did play in his preferred position, I'd probably find a reason why he didn't succeed in those games, in terms of his footballing ability. He didn't play alongside a proper DM either. That isn't Liverpool's fault though, since Lucas was injured.

Also how is saying the following whining and complaining:

"I've played my whole career deeper but I have played as a No.10 here. It was new for me but I tried my best," he told reporters.

"If I could choose a position it would be holding as I feel more comfortable there."

That isn't whining or complaining imo. He's just saying what position he prefers. I'm not sure how it means he's not committed or not trying hard enough. Unless there's more quotes? If not then is all being exaggerated.

Hell, take a quick look at Suarez. He was top dog at Ajax, with the team built around him. He came to LFC in trying times and struggled a bit at first, doing graft work and playing in a number of different positions along the attack. Did he complain that he wasn't playing in his preferred role? Did he sulk to the press and say he wasn't scoring goals because the manager wasn't using him properly? No, he worked his arse off and now the team DOES play to his strengths, and he's flourishing and loved by the fans and club.

Agger, Carra, Gerrard, Lucas, Downing, Henderson, Suarez, Alonso, Johnson, Aurelio, Shelvey, etc, etc, etc.

It's not about ability, it's about mentality. Whatever the circumstances, whatever his abilities, Sahin did not show the qualities expected of those who play for LFC. You like Sahin. You have no affinity for Liverpool. You are unfamiliar with the history, the mythos, and the traditions of Bill Shankly's club. That's fine. That's life. Without a clear grasp on those there's a definite chance you'll never quite understand what we're saying in this thread, so perhaps it's time to call it a day.

When exactly did Sahin complain or sulk? Are there any quotes from while he was at Liverpool?

Also the Suarez and Sahin situation isn't the same.

You are unbelievable MT. You won't accept clear reasoning and keep repeating the same thing over again. Go reread the countless post the Pool fans have provided in this thread and you'll be surprised to find all the answers to your repetitive question there.

Yohan Modric wrote:So Sahin didn't even play one game alongside a proper DM in his preferred position?

Yoha, it seams like you really have your mind made up on the fact that he got jobbed out of a starters role/fair chance to perform at Liverpool. Why wasnt Shelvey, Henderson, Allen, etc., moved out of the team/asking to play in his preferred position?

You do what the coach tells you... you do what is best for the team. Im not saying that he was an ungrateful, cocky, whatever, but at the same time what is the point of arguing so hard in someones favor when at the end of the day he just didnt perform well?

No one's answered in this thread when Sahin complained or sulked during his loan spell. Sahin didn't ask to play anywhere, he just said he prefers playing in a deeper position. I'm sure plenty of players have done that before.

Yes Sahin played in his preferred position around 5 times, however I think he needed more time to adapt, since he barely played last season. He also didn't play alongside Lucas in his preferred position. I suppose he wasn't good enough, however as I said, he needed more time to adapt.

As far as I know he didn't refuse play in another position, nor was he arrogant etc during his time at Liverpool. There's also nothing saying he wasn't working hard etc etc.


Sahin said: “I’ve played my whole career deeper – that’s my position.

“But I have played as a number ten here. It was new for me but I tried my best to help the team.

“If I could choose a position it would be holding, as I feel more comfortable playing deeper and can give my all.”


Also according to this, Downing said he prefers to play on the right wing:

http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2011/12/liverpool-winger-admits-its-frustrating.html


According to this Henderson prefers to play in a central position:

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/8233797/Jordan-Henderson-says-he-still-thinks-that-his-future-lies-with-Liverpool