What is the best way to play against Barca?

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:If there actually was a team who could keep the ball well, would they have a chance against Barca?

Whats well?

Man Utd had 52% possession vs Barca in 09 and lost 2-1.

Not to nitpick but if you are talking about the 09 CL final when Barca won 2-0, Barca had 53% possession..

barca 2011 wrote:Pretty much what these guys said.
You will need:
*A well positioned defense at all times
*Critical finishing for the few chances you will get
*Use of size to go over Barca's defenders during a set piece
*Look for the counter-attack as it's one of your best chances
*A strong modification tailor made for Messi (like Pepe at DM in a 4-3-3)
*Park the bus
*Luck, Luck and luck.

And even with this it isn't always a win.

I would also add that you need to start the game very strong seeing as Barca tend to start the game very shaky

I have a question towards barca fans here..How many sides have used DM, against barcelona ever since Guardiola came? I mean a legit DM, not someone whos there just to fill an empty spot.

luck ? are you serious? Inter went 3-1 and then 0-1 with a red card for most of the game....

rwo power wrote:I'd love to see Dortmund vs Barca. They do have that pressing and they gave Bayern a run for their money, too. They only got into problems this season as the other teams didn't allow them to use their counter attacks anymore and so they dropped points there, but against Barca it shouldn't be a problem for Dortmund to employ the tactics again that made them so dangerous versus Bayern, too.

I won't lie to you, I would not want see barca face BVB because of how good hey are but I then would like to see it because I'm sure they'd be classic matches.

Play them on a cold night at the Britannia.

Spoiler:

zarola wrote:luck ? are you serious? Inter went 3-1 and then 0-1 with a red card for most of the game....

Luck bro. That was luck.

StrugaRock wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

StrugaRock wrote:Hire Drogba

Thought I would do some research

All time record vs Barca

Win 3 Draw 6 Lose 3

Not bad.

At least he is the closest one to stop them since 2008/09 and onward

I know, I was actually saying his/Chelsea's record since he has been there is quite decent.

Yohan Modric wrote:

barca 2011 wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:If there actually was a team who could keep the ball well, would they have a chance against Barca?

How well? And who would they be? Even if they could keep it, they'd have to finish well, pass extremely well (or they wouldnt keep it at all) and theyd have to take it to Barca offensively as relentlessly as barca would in order to avoid the opposite

A team who's capable of withstanding Barca's pressing. I'm sure it's possible, but most teams don't take advantage of the weaknesses of Barca's pressing. They just hoof it etc etc. But that's probably due to not having the players to retain the ball.

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:If there actually was a team who could keep the ball well, would they have a chance against Barca?

Whats well?

Man Utd had 52% possession vs Barca in 09 and lost 2-1.

Enough to thwart the pressing.

I think you think its much easier than it is. Do you realise how hard it is to play under the type of pressing Barca put you under? If a team pressed like Barca (on some occassions some teams have) not even Barca are capable of controlling the game.

The xcx wrote:I have a question towards barca fans here..How many sides have used DM, against barcelona ever since Guardiola came? I mean a legit DM, not someone whos there just to fill an empty spot.

Name the DM's?

Other than Busquets, who in todays game is a DM?

I could name a few, but they werent single, alone holding midfielders..maybe one of two players doing the job.

For example Cambiasso did it, but he wasnt alone.

zarola wrote:luck ? are you serious? Inter went 3-1 and then 0-1 with a red card for most of the game....

And in that game, Barca scored a goal which would of levelled it up via Bojan put the ref said Yaya handballed it.

I think Inter were lucky in that the ref gave it handball because I dont think it was.

People are not saying you ONLY win by luck, just you need some. I think thats reasonable dont you?

Internationale beat Barcelona due to tactics. The obvious key to having a successful attempt at beating Barcelona is to play extremely narrow, collapsing the midfield so that play needs to be switched to the wings. Being adept at playing on the break keeps Barcelona honest, which can minimize the effect of the midfield maestros. Blocking passing lanes from he central midfield is key, as well as having a strong base midfield formation. Arsenal tried to mark Messi with a 4141 formation with Denilson as the anchorman, and they were punished. Internationale played a structured, drilled strategy with naturally intelligent midfielders in Esteban Cambiasso and Thiago Motta, which nullified some of his vital chance creating abilities. They were rewarded.

Surprise no one mentioned it - you play zonal defense.

You close down all the space on the pitch, especially in the middle. Don't man mark but keep a couple of your top defensive players on Messi, like Cambiasso/Zanetti.
Allow them some space on the wings in sacrifice for more organization in the middle. You also need ruthless finishers who can keep a cool head in a big match, and finish their chances. Counter attacks are the key.

RealGunner wrote:how did they manage 52% ?

90% of that 52% was united stalling the inevitable defeat by holding the ball for extra time before throw-ins.

peerIess wrote:Internationale beat Barcelona due to tactics. The obvious key to having a successful attempt at beating Barcelona is to play extremely narrow, collapsing the midfield so that play needs to be switched to the wings. Being adept at playing on the break keeps Barcelona honest, which can minimize the effect of the midfield maestros. Blocking passing lanes from he central midfield is key, as well as having a strong base midfield formation. Arsenal tried to mark Messi with a 4141 formation with Denilson as the anchorman, and they were punished. Internationale played a structured, drilled strategy with naturally intelligent midfielders in Esteban Cambiasso and Thiago Motta, which nullified some of his vital chance creating abilities. They were rewarded.

Inter beat them because of a dysfunctional Ibra + injured Iniesta + 22 year old Messi who wasn't as good as now + 21 year old Busquets who wasn't as good as now + 10 hour Bus trip because of Volcano ashes. And even then they needed an offside goal to make it 3-1. If there existed some obvious "anti Barca tactics", the same manager wouldn't have lost 0-5 to Barca in his very next game or 1-3 at home 1 1/2 years later.

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:

barca 2011 wrote:
How well? And who would they be? Even if they could keep it, they'd have to finish well, pass extremely well (or they wouldnt keep it at all) and theyd have to take it to Barca offensively as relentlessly as barca would in order to avoid the opposite

A team who's capable of withstanding Barca's pressing. I'm sure it's possible, but most teams don't take advantage of the weaknesses of Barca's pressing. They just hoof it etc etc. But that's probably due to not having the players to retain the ball.

The Franchise wrote:

Whats well?

Man Utd had 52% possession vs Barca in 09 and lost 2-1.

Enough to thwart the pressing.

I think you think its much easier than it is. Do you realise how hard it is to play under the type of pressing Barca put you under? If a team pressed like Barca (on some occassions some teams have) not even Barca are capable of controlling the game.

Which is why I think a team who can retain the ball might succeed. After the first press is broken, Barca kinda sit back and defend with a high line, however it's still pretty much pressing. But I think that's the best chance of keeping the ball.

Teams often get trapped on one side of the pitch when Barca are defending in their own half. Maybe if a team had players who could retain the ball, then they might succeed when they're getting trapped.

peerIess wrote:Internationale beat Barcelona due to tactics.

Dat tactic.

Wonder why nobody has used it since, seems rather good.

Barca didn't lose to Madrid in the League this season due to luck and didn't loss in the Supercup much worse because of luck. You're talking about them like they are God, many people forget how they won against Chelsea in 09, against Madrid and Arsenal in 2011, against Milan in 2012....

likeastar wrote:Barca didn't lose to Madrid in the League this season due to luck and didn't loss in the Supercup much worse because of luck. You're talking about them like they are God, many people forget how they won against Chelsea in 09, against Madrid and Arsenal in 2011, against Milan in 2012....

You can also say that Barca didnt beat real madrid in the league because of bad luck, seeing as if montoya's shot would have gone 1 CM lower it would have been a goal

And the supercup? Do you really want to talk about the supercup? The only reason why you even won the supercup was because Valdes wanted to dribble Di Maria. If he didnt try to dribble him, Barca would have won that game 3-1 and lost the 2nd leg 2-1 making Barca the champion.

When did Barca lose to Milan in 2012?

omg barca fans, more excuses next time

It is not as we (Barca) weren't lucky many times! Though, playing a better team you need more luck, and I think everyone agrees that last 4-5 years Barca has been top 1-3 every year. Luck is important, for Barca and against Barca, so say we remove the "luck" variable for sake of simplifying this argument?!

IMO you need a disciplined defenders and midfield. Also depends on whether it is a cup or league game.

Narrow defending with crowded midfield to neutralize our middle through-balls and attacks work. We can't convert crosses that easy, especially playing against tall team.

A physical fast striker who can outpace our defenders in counter and present an aerial threat from set-pieces is a almost a must.

Other way, is have a team who keeps same or better possession as us and can press better then us. I do not think such team exists at the moment.

rwo power wrote:I'd love to see Dortmund vs Barca. They do have that pressing and they gave Bayern a run for their money, too. They only got into problems this season as the other teams didn't allow them to use their counter attacks anymore and so they dropped points there, but against Barca it shouldn't be a problem for Dortmund to employ the tactics again that made them so dangerous versus Bayern, too.

Personally think German sides play far too open a game against Barca. They've become somewhat of a bogey team for them in recent years.

I remember them destroying Bayern multiple times a few seasons back. They did it to Stuttgart and Leverkusen as well, but both were scrub teams tbf.

As for Dortmund, yes they press well and have the stamina to match the best sides, but can they chase the ball for 90 minutes without much possession to show for it? I think that's a different proposition entirely.

Beating Barca is as much a mental challenge as it is a physical one so while Dortmund's superior fitness would no doubt see them through physically, as a team that enjoys having a lot of the ball to work with, not having it for long periods of time would likely wear on them to the point where they will lose focus. That's where Barca are at their most dangerous.

Idiot wrote:omg barca fans, more excuses next time

If you are talking about me, then I only corrected a Madrid fan seeing as he said that we only won/draw beccause of luck forgetting that they had just as much luck, if not more..

McLewis wrote:Personally think German sides play far too open a game against Barca. They've become somewhat of a bogey team for them in recent years.

I remember them destroying Bayern multiple times a few seasons back. They did it to Stuttgart and Leverkusen as well, but both were scrub teams tbf.

While it is true that Barca has ripped Bayer to shreds last season (Stuttgart doesn't count, pretty much anyone can comfortably steamroll them) and they looked pretty good against German sides in the past years in general (just like Spain vs Germany), I'm still hopeful that we have learned a bit by now. Especially Dortmund did, if you look at their dismal CL run last season and how they do this season.

McLewis wrote:As for Dortmund, yes they press well and have the stamina to match the best sides, but can they chase the ball for 90 minutes without much possession to show for it? I think that's a different proposition entirely.

Well, in the DFB-Pokal final last season, they took Bayern apart 5:2, and the possession stats were 61.1% Bayern and 38.9% Dortmund. Dortmund actually thrive when they don't have much possession as then they can use their speed for deadly counter attacks. They are actually less dominant if they have more possession most of the time.

McLewis wrote:Beating Barca is as much a mental challenge as it is a physical one so while Dortmund's superior fitness would no doubt see them through physically, as a team that enjoys having a lot of the ball to work with, not having it for long periods of time would likely wear on them to the point where they will lose focus. That's where Barca are at their most dangerous.

Well, that's why I really would love to see a match between these two teams as theory is theory and I would like to see it in practice for once ^^

There is no anti-Barca tactic.
You play to your own team's strengths.

If you're Dortmund, you counter-attack, if you're Bayern you try to out-possess them, if you can't you're not good enough.

There are a few key battles to be won, and most of them are in the center of midfield, where you have to keep spaces tight, emply zonal marking by your midfielders, but that's about it.

Besides not giving Barca much space, there's not much to do. Try to press them, and play to win - try to get a lot of chances. You won't get too much of the ball, so make it count, when you do. Go at the defense hard, Barcas counters aren't really more dangerous than Barca slowly building up an attack, so really, there's no reason not to crowd the box.

Besides Puyol, Barcas defense is rather shoddy, Valdes hasn't impressed me for like 3 seasons, Pique is vastly overrated due to Barcas possession stats, and Alves is basically a glorified winger, a good one, but he's not impressive defensively.

So it'll basically come down to this: does Messi, with the help of Iniesta et al, make your defense look worse than Barcas defense actually is?


Or you can try some weird anti-Barca tactic that your players aren't familiar with, and get curb-stomped.


(BTW @ German clubs v Barca record: the Bundesliga is changing vastly ATM; Neverkusen were never going to challenge them, but comparing the 2007 Bayern that got raped by them to todays Bayern is... Dangerous. Back then they had Klinsmann, and a good 100m less invested in their squad. In the same fashion, Schalke are probably worse now than they were last year. BL is weird.)

harhar11 wrote:

likeastar wrote:Barca didn't lose to Madrid in the League this season due to luck and didn't loss in the Supercup much worse because of luck. You're talking about them like they are God, many people forget how they won against Chelsea in 09, against Madrid and Arsenal in 2011, against Milan in 2012....

You can also say that Barca didnt beat real madrid in the league because of bad luck, seeing as if montoya's shot would have gone 1 CM lower it would have been a goal

And the supercup? Do you really want to talk about the supercup? The only reason why you even won the supercup was because Valdes wanted to dribble Di Maria. If he didnt try to dribble him, Barca would have won that game 3-1 and lost the 2nd leg 2-1 making Barca the champion.

When did Barca lose to Milan in 2012?

No one would have been sad if we had 4/5-0 before the break in the supercup, and in the League if Benzema would have scored that 1on1 the match would have been over.

vanDEEZ wrote:

RealGunner wrote:how did they manage 52% ?

90% of that 52% was united stalling the inevitable defeat by holding the ball for extra time before throw-ins.

Cant remember if it was 52%, on some graphics I remember 52%, on others the 48% Danny said.

Anyway, thats not true. They didnt do it by wasting time, I watched the game only recently.

We just didnt dominate possession like you might think we did, its funny what years does to how you remember the game.

Man Utd didnt have much tactical discipline so the space was there to exploit and we were very aggressive in our attack.

Henry wasnt waiting for support, he was going alone, Iniesta and Mdessi went on runs through the middle, our fullbacks (Puyol and Silvinho) where very cautious and not great ball players so they didnt create space.

We just didnt keep the ball as often, Man Utd put up a much better performance than people remember and since that year, we have grown so much. Which is why I laugh so hard when people think the 09 team was the best one, it really wasnt. It was perhaps the best season, but not the best team.