Premier League R3 - Leicester City 1 - 1 Arsenal: I don't understand anymore

by Jay29 Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:24 am

What a big pile of crap that was.

The only thing more farcical than that performance is Wenger's instance he's got too many centre forwards to buy an actual centre forward, and the amount of trust he puts in players like Yaya Sanogo to play an important position like centre forward.

It wasn't just Sanogo who was incredibly disappointing today, but I'll start with him as he was today's “controversial” selection. This is a Premier League footballer, an Arsenal centre forward, following on from the likes of Ian Wright, Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie, who can't control a football. Not only can't he control a football, he can't shoot when he offered decent chances. On top of that, he can barely time his runs. So the three main assets needed to play centre forward – touch, movement, finishing – he doesn't have. What a tremendous help to us that is.

The rest of the team doesn't get a pass here. Ramsey – what the *bleep* was that? A player full of quality yet today couldn't play a simple sideways pass out to a fullback without putting it several yards behind him, or even put the ball into the penalty area without ballooning it into row z. His goals aside, his performances against Everton, Besiktas and Palace have been way below par.

Cazorla and Ozil – a terribly redundant partnership. I'll admit, I've defended this before, but I just can't anymore. They're both number 10s. They both want to occupy the same space. They both play in the same way. They want to find those passes and create, not dribble at players, cross it into the box or shoot from distance. What do we accomplish by playing both? We keep the ball more but do nothing worthwhile with it. Fantastic. I don't suppose one of those spots could be better used by a quick, pacey player who likes running at defenders like Chamberlain or Campbell, would it?

This is where Wenger drives me nuts. He's playing a 4-1-4-1 for reasons we can't quite understand. In doing so he's forcing one of his best players, either Ozil or Cazorla, onto the flank where they don't want to be and won't be as effective. In doing so, he leaves the players who would be suited to a wide role on the bench. Then, when it inevitably doesn't work, he leaves it untl the 75th bloody minute to change things. Not the 60th minute like a normal coach, or half-time like a proactive coach. No, with 15 mins to go.

I don't understand. I really don't. Somebody needs to help me make heads and tails or some of Wenger's recent decisions. We're producing crap performances, we can barely score and we're having trouble keeping it out at the other end. Yet another goal conceded to a cross or set-piece. Koscielny was hurt, he didn't want to challenge anybody in the air, but hey, let's keep him on because You Obviously Love Owls.

I don't see the promise in this set-up. All I see is players out of position, slow, pedestrian build-up play and no chances. We barely got a point today. Leicester had some great chances and had they converted, I don't see how we could've gotten back at them.

Now we've got to endure a deadline day where we don't sign anybody and an international break before we play Manchester City. Yup, great time to play them.

So in short, the game was garbage, Wenger's losing it, the players need to sort it out and we need to stop playing like a shit version of Germany.

by Twoism Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:34 am

my jaw dropped watching the game, never for a life of me I would think I watched such series of such average game after game and the manager insist on something that doesn't work. Good lord the only things that midfield has is number, 5 ineffective and disjointed players.

I don't care, bring back 4-2-3-1, Put Santi on the left wing if he has to. Get someone with some freaking PACE on the wings, pace pace pace we need it. Call back lord Bendy and let him lead the line instead of Sanogo.

Wenger needs to figure out quick, cause big games are on the way. Disappointment & embarrassment await

by Wilson37 Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:37 am

we had almost 20+ attempts on goal with 70% possession.. i think that is a decent display..

but what was evident was the lack of quality in the box.. we desperately need a clinical forward.. Sanogo despite all his hardwork and good movement is conisitently lacking that end product..kept on shooting into blocks or wide out.. and no idea why Campbell or Poldi is not getting more minutes despite all these problems..

Alexis had a good display.. the central role seems to suit Cazorla better.. he was our best man in attack today.. showed good creativity with some fantastic lobs, but he certainly left out his shooting boots.. i feel Ramsey is getting frustrated easily and trying too much, just needs to calm down a bit.. Ozil was again looking tired and anonymous.. and left wing is not his place, especially if he is being played with Monreal..

and Sczeny was well today except for his usual moments craziness.. and we conceded the goal because of Kos injury.. it is really pathetic that he was played after such a collision.. Wenger was not sure to trust Chambers.. the season has just started and warning signs are there.. still Wenger is still waiting to sign a third choice CB.. or are we going to play 50-55 matches with the same CB pairing if they are fit ?

thats credits to Leicester.. they defended deep in the box and broke well on the counter.. 1 point is probably a fair result..

by RealGunner Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:37 am

Can't discuss this match. Absolutely disgusted with the performance.

We are so shit it's unbelievable. AND THAT WITH ACTUAL WC PLAYERS.

We played better with the likes of Benayoun, Gervinho and Chamakh.

Logical thoughts later

by abirking Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:42 am

Arsene playing Ozil at LW is exasperating. It is a waste of his talent and it robs the team of pace where it is needed. At least Cazorla has the ability to dribble past full backs most of the time.
Our Defence is in shambles, our mid-field is stagnant with lethargic movement and our forward options are poor. We need a CF and a CB asap if we even want to stay in the battle for fourth let alone challenge for the championship.
Poor display from the team and poor tactics from Wenger although he was never a great tactician in my eyes.

by El Gunner Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:43 am

I can't express how frustrated I am atm.

First of all, how can you have a team of that class of players and they play shit like that. This 'team hasn't gelled yet' shit is not an excuse anymore. Ramsey has been playing really poorly this season, he hasn't only contributed in two goals which in all fairness to him he made good runs for, but otherwise he has been shit!
Özil, I don't even want to talk about him anymore. I'll just avoid him, I can't be bothered anymore by him really. I can vent all I want about him, but yet he'll get defended by you guys because he 'makes good runs throughout the match'.
Sanchez played well in the first half, and he looked good on that left side. I believe that should be our problem solved in that position, and Wenger shouldn't take him out of that position.

And then I come to the obvious frustration... WE NEED A CF!!! FFS how can Wenger say we're covered in the position when we have no natural CF fit atm, and have Sanogo who is laughable as shit out there.
God dammit Sanogo, and Özil as well, are so weak in their body strength and they look they will fall over everytime an opposition player comes into contact with them.

Our defense is struggling atm. I have said this before and I'll say it again, Debuchy is worrying me. He is way too offensive and that is affecting his defensive duties negatively. He was nowhere to be found for the goal. And against stronger teams we'll get ripped apart from that right side because he's one on one defending is not that good as well. I believe he has created an instability in our defense. We lack a sort of cohesiveness and understanding in the defense. And exactly for that reason we are shaky whenever a team attacks/counters quick on us. I don't know how this problem should be solved, because we don't have anyone else personnel wise, but I think Debuchy should work in training and improve his one on ones and implement more discipline in his game.

We really shouldn't be dropping points in games like these when we're heading into a int. break and when we face tougher opposition in the next few games after the break.
It's quite unbelievable really. :facepalm:

And pls don't tell me to calm down.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:48 am

^^calm down man

Wilson37 wrote:we had almost 20+ attempts on goal with 70% possession.. i think that is a decent display..

but what was evident was the lack of quality in the box.. we desperately need a clinical forward.. Sanogo despite all his hardwork and good movement is conisitently lacking that end product..kept on shooting into blocks or wide out.. and no idea why Campbell or Poldi is not getting more minutes despite all these problems..

Alexis had a good display.. the central role seems to suit Cazorla better.. he was our best man in attack today.. showed good creativity with some fantastic lobs, but he certainly left out his shooting boots.. i feel Ramsey is getting frustrated easily and trying too much, just needs to calm down a bit.. Ozil was again looking tired and anonymous.. and left wing is not his place, especially if he is being played with Monreal..

and Sczeny was well today except for his usual moments craziness.. and we conceded the goal because of Kos injury.. it is really pathetic that he was played after such a collision.. Wenger was not sure to trust Chambers.. the season has just started and warning signs are there.. still Wenger is still waiting to sign a third choice CB.. or are we going to play 50-55 matches with the same CB pairing if they are fit ?

thats credits to Leicester.. they defended deep in the box and broke well on the counter.. 1 point is probably a fair result..

very sober and reasonable summary :bow:

by urbaNRoots Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:09 am

Couple of points:

We've spent so much money and are still just slightly better than Everton/Tottenham.

Sanogo wouldn't start for Leicester, I don't know how the hell he's starting for us. He could be Falcao in training but he's not showing it where it matters. Wenger can't be serious to mention him as an "option".

Wenger said Podolski is an option to play as CF, then said he isn't and then plays him there anyway. Has he got dementia?

Only Wenger could manage to make us worse after subbing out Yaya Sanogo.

If Wenger wants to play Özil wide, why the *bleep* did he not sign Fabregas? If you want to *bleep* up a player, atleast let it be worth it.

Cazorla and Alexis were good, Ramsey dog shit since the start of season (could be because new formation), Debuchy and Flamini less said for them the better, Szczesny, Merte, Chambers, Monreal decent performances.

You could accuse Wenger on many things but never for stealing tactics and formations, this time though it is very obvious he's trying to emulate Germany even though he doesn't have the players for it. Instead of taking advantage of our strengths he's trying to fit our players in some formation he doesn't know how to use.

Last season we used to trash teams like Leicester away or home, that's how we got our points. We won't be able to recover them in big games based on the Everton game.

We will be worse defensively than last year, so we better get our shit together offensively because we won't get that lovely 4th place at this rate.

One day and some hours to sign a world class striker, a starting defensive midfielder and a backup CB, good luck with that.

Either way it doesn't matter, if we sign Falcao, Javi Martinez and Thiago Silva tomorrow, Wenger will manage to *bleep* it up by putting them in some weird formatiom and playing them out of position.

Sorry for the rant.

by Raptorgunner Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:15 am

That was the most soulless, lazy performance from an Arsenal team in years, and Wenger is proud of 1 point. :facepalm:

You don’t need to be a genius to see that Ozil or Cazorla on the flanks are useless, but our genius Manager keeps playing them there.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:23 am

urbaNRoots wrote:
You could accuse Wenger on many things but never for stealing tactics and formations, this time though it is very obvious he's trying to emulate Germany even though he doesn't have the players for it. Instead of taking advantage of our strengths he's trying to fit our players in some formation he doesn't know how to use.

that's what I was wondering as well. And then consider that Löw was trying to emulate Bayern under Pep.
Only that already Germany didn't press and suffocate the opponent like we did, and then Arsenal press even less than Germany.
Also you don't have the constant ball circulation as your PL informed players do not have the systematic patience.

urbaNRoots wrote:
Last season we used to trash teams like Leicester away or home, that's how we got our points. We won't be able to recover them in big games based on the Everton game.

that's a bit revisionist, as far as I remember you ground out some 1:0s last season hmm

Might have been the same today if you didn't let them score so easily, with Koscielny impaired.
Debuchy so far looks less solid defensively than Sagna though, true.
Anyway, it's early, better stutter now than later hmm

by EL Patron Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:24 am

Why did he not sub Koscielny when he was still dizzy Mad

I expected a much better performance today but it was similar to our performances against Palace and Everton. Slow build up, too many touches on the ball, zero urgency, not incisive enough in the final third. I would have subbed Yaya at half time and bought on Ox to add a bit of pace to our game but Arsene only likes making changes on the 70th minute Laughing

Sanchez played well today, he is getting stronger and sharper. He should have started upfront in my opinion, another case of Arsene saying one thing and doing the other Laughing

I hope Arsene doesn't start Yaya in anymore premier league games and saves him for a plan B, he is nowhere ready. The fans will get frustrated then start booing and his confidence will be shot to pieces He should be starting carling cup and Fa cups games until then bench.

by Raptorgunner Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:32 am

Ozil 1 assist in last 10 games, not picking on him but Wenger is at fault here, how can he turn Ozil in to such average player?

If we had a team of Cavani, Reus, Sanchez, Ozil, khedira Ramsey etc we’d still look ordinary.

by urbaNRoots Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:32 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:
You could accuse Wenger on many things but never for stealing tactics and formations, this time though it is very obvious he's trying to emulate Germany even though he doesn't have the players for it. Instead of taking advantage of our strengths he's trying to fit our players in some formation he doesn't know how to use.

that's what I was wondering as well. And then consider that Löw was trying to emulate Bayern under Pep.
Only that already Germany didn't press and suffocate the opponent like we did, and then Arsenal press even less than Germany.
Also you don't have the constant ball circulation as your PL informed players do not have the systematic patience.

urbaNRoots wrote:
Last season we used to trash teams like Leicester away or home, that's how we got our points. We won't be able to recover them in big games based on the Everton game.

that's a bit revisionist, as far as I remember you ground out some 1:0s last season
Might have been the same today if you didn't let them score so easily, with Koscielny impaired.
Debuchy so far looks less solid defensively than Sagna though, true.
Anyway, it's early, better stutter now than later

Yes you're right, we haven't won regularly convincingly for years, however last year against such teams we would score one goal or two and defend comfortably for the rest of the game. We can't do that anymore because we've got a poor winger playing RB now. So what do we do? Score more goals but how when you have an even bigger clown upfront? Laughing

by Art Morte Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:33 am

Here's what I thought when watching the match:

If you start with a striker that wouldn't start for your opposition, you're not very likely to score a lot.

by urbaNRoots Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:35 am

EL Patron wrote:

I hope Arsene doesn't start Yaya in anymore premier league games and saves him for a plan B, he is nowhere ready. The fans will get frustrated then start booing and his confidence will be shot to pieces He should be starting carling cup and Fa cups games until then bench.

No thanks, I'd rather he starts games somewhere else on loan.

Not even in our U21 because Akpom is miles better. Why doesn't Wenger show so much faith on Akpom, a younger, already better player than Sanogo?

by sportsczy Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:46 am

Keep in mind that France U20 won the WC with Sanogo as the starting CF... just shows you how great the rest of the team was Laughing

Areola, Foulquier, Umtiti, Zouma, Digne, Pogba, Kondogbia, Veretout, Bahebeck and Thauvin. All the other guys are playing very important roles on teams in top leagues. Sanogo is the LEAST talented and effective of the group...

by EL Patron Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:58 am

urbaNRoots wrote:
EL Patron wrote:

I hope Arsene doesn't start Yaya in anymore premier league games and saves him for a plan B, he is nowhere ready. The fans will get frustrated then start booing and his confidence will be shot to pieces He should be starting carling cup and Fa cups games until then bench.

No thanks, I'd rather he starts games somewhere else on loan.

Not even in our U21 because Akpom is miles better. Why doesn't Wenger show so much faith on Akpom, a younger, already better player than Sanogo?

Come on

Lets be realistic, no serious club will take him on loan and make him a starter. Maybe pub teams in Ligue 1 like Guingamp Laughing

by MJ Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:59 am

I'm terribly frustrated with the way we've played as of recent but having lost Arteta and Giroud at the same time, I'm not terribly surprised. This is where depth comes into play and I hope this means min. 2 signings tomorrow.

But come on, people. Have a little faith and lighten up. We should have won the last three matches but 5/9 points is somewhere to start. Last season we were 6/9 in the first three matches and led the league until February.

Obviously we want a title challenge that lasts until May but let's just wait and see what happens tomorrow before the ridiculous doom and gloom sets in.

by EL Patron Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:12 am

Still can't believe Flamini is a starter here, the guy should be playing for teams like QPR Laughing

by Jay29 Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:14 am

It's not the results that are concerning me right now, but the performances and the tactical mess we're currently in. The loss of two players does not cause this.

Wenger's making strange decisions. The deviation from the tried and tested 4-2-3-1 is strange; putting his best playmaker, a player who he considers one of the best 10s around, on the wing; leaving subs too late to make a difference and saying we're jaded, resting two players but playing two others who also played mid-week.

We're basically played a flawed system that doesn't get the best out of our best players and that'll rightfully concern fans. There's plenty of talent out there and they shouldn't be performing like that, not when they're trying to win a game.

by Raptorgunner Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:29 am

Wenger'We had two tough weeks with three away games - the Champions League was very demanding. It's not an excuse but we were a bit jaded.'
Thats why you waited till 15 left to make a sub? :facepalm:

Then why say it if it not a excuse? why not rotate properly...what joke. rofl

The main problem is Wenger, his poor team selection and his old tactic. The good question is does Wenger know about players or their positions?

by Jay29 Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:51 am

Took another look at the second half and noticed the following:

-- Arsenal can only create chances if they have midfield runners or if they're countering
-- Arsenal really, really miss Walcott
-- Too many of the same type of player = congregation

Spoiler:

by MJ Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:08 am

I remember that last moment. Incredibly frustrating. Too many playing in the same space, not enough width or runs at all.

Wenger seems to be trying to squeeze too many providers onto the same pitch. Can't wait to see Theo back.

We really missed Giroud's hold up play up front and Arteta definitely would have done better than Flamini who is starting to show his age.

by Raptorgunner Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:21 am

MJ wrote:I remember that last moment. Incredibly frustrating. Too many playing in the same space, not enough width or runs at all.

Wenger seems to be trying to squeeze too many providers onto the same pitch. Can't wait to see Theo back.

We really missed Giroud's hold up play up front and Arteta definitely would have done better than Flamini who is starting to show his age.

As much as I pick on Giroud, man we really missed him.

Theo has been missed the most imo, cant wait to have him back.

by RealGunner Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:37 am

GoonerJay29 wrote:Took another look at the second half and noticed the following:

-- Arsenal can only create chances if they have midfield runners or if they're countering
-- Arsenal really, really miss Walcott
-- Too many of the same type of player = congregation

Spoiler:

Couldn't have said it any better.

We are a tactical mess atm. We know it, Arsene knows it, The players themselves know it too. I want to say it's Arsene's fault because he should have sorted it out in pre season. But I can't give him all the blame because of the WC as only half the squad could try out the new system while the other half couldn't

I think most of the problems could go away if we sort out the personnel. Lack of striker is obviously an issue but the bigger worry as Jay said is the awful performances we put in along with the players who are not performing. For one reason or another, we are in a really bad spot atm. We have had poor strikers lead the attack in the past. We have had Bendtner, Chamakh, Gervinho and even 5'3 Arshavin upfront. But we always worked things out. It's not happening this time.

4-1-4-1 only works when the players are suited to it. It's a lot like United's problem atm. Their players can't adapt to 3-5-2 and our players can't adapt to 4-1-4-1. I am not sure why Arsene is forcing it. It could be that he is trying to fit in 4 midfielders. Or he thinks it's strong in both attack and defence. But either way we need to either get players who are ok with the system or just change it back to 4-2-3-1.

Another thing is that we really missed Arteta today and against Besiktas. He is a real leader on the pitch. His intelligence can't be matched whether it's organising the midfield or starting the attacks. Yes, he is limited and is deteriorating with time but he is still the best at what he does for us. Really hope he lasts all season.

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