Re: I am butthurt by Wilshere's talent

by Dnmac4 Tue 30 Sep - 4:45:15

And no, I'm not talking about you Peccadillo. At least not the second part.

by Peccadillo Tue 30 Sep - 5:55:54

thanks for clearing that up, I love to read your posts in a whiney and over-excitable American accent.. I find it adds so much more value to my time reading them.

You have descended from a somewhat-close-to-rational-yet-still-incoherant position that the criticism of Ozil is unjustified, when you consider the concessions made for Wilshere, which I agreed with to some degree, to a drivelling mad-man who seems to be obsessing over an intense hatred for English players and Arsenal fans, with Jack Wilshere serving as the embodiment of your grievances.

You are now claiming that not only is Jack Wilshere over-rated, but that he is the sole reason for Arsenals sub-par performances recently and something of a cancer in the team, despite unquestionably being one of the better performers so far. You seem to imply that he decides where he plays and when he plays as if that is not the managers decision. You then go on to waffle on about "a contigent of Arsenal fans" have a special kind of delusion dedicated to Wilshere, as if to say fan favouritism is a trait exclusive to Arsenal fans, and also as if to say that every single opinion put forward by a fan, speaks for the club, or even for a contigent of the fan base.

The only points you are making that aren't ridiculous are your straw-man arguments, where you are (most likely) misunderstanding what other people are saying through your incomprehension of the english language, which makes the point completely redundant.

You're spending a lot of time picking out sound-bites of peoples previous posts, yet are completely failing to contextualise them or intepret their meaning properly. No one was saying Wilshere is, or ever has been, as good as Iniesta... You usually then go on to spout rubbish which was so much more inaccurate than the point you were insulting.

I'll give you an example;

Flick wrote: Uh Wilshere being english has nothing to do with him being on the team at all. He's a talented player while I don't hold him to high esteem as most Arsenal fans. I believe that he will be quality. He needs to be loaned out to get playing time honestly but, the lack of depth on Arsenal's midfield for the B2B position at Arsenal is really lacking. Arsenal has technically only 2 with Ramsey and Wilshere and 3 if you count Arteta which I don't. He's getting inconsistent playing time and he needs to be playing consistently to be consistent. At the very moment he's a poor mans Iniesta. He has the same qualities as Iniesta but he doesn't execute them like Iniesta.

You said in reply:

Dnmac4 wrote: Uh dude, I think your confusing positions. Jack and Ramsey don't play the same position as Arteta.
Yes, Arteta and Flamini are Arsenal's DM's not particularly good ones although Arteta used to be quality when played in the right position even though he is painfully slow. Yes Arsenal need a DM badly but that's not Jack or Ramsey.
Arsenal have an absolute gluttony of Central Midfielders and players who can play in an Iniesta type role the difference being they ALL want to drift centrally where Iniesta is one of the most tactically flexible players I have ever seen. And you being an Arsenal fan I appreciate the fact that you prefaced your statement but please no more Arsenal fans putting Wilshere and Iniesta's name in the same sentence there not even in the same universe.
So no it's not Ramsey and Wilshere as the box to box players it's Cazorla, Ozil, Wilshere, Ramsey and Rosicky.
And loaned out to get playing time? The guy plays pretty much every game when when fit. I do agree though if he weren't English he wouldn't be on the team anymore he would have been loaned out or sold.
Also, just stop it. If it walks like a duck, quack's like a duck, it'as a freaking duck. Jack is what he is. He has a million hours of film to watch and issues with the feel of the game, positional sense, finishing/providing in the final third and giving the ball away/being wasteful etc.
He is never going to be the best CM In the world or anywhere close to it, so please just stop.

1) He wasn't confusing positions, he said "if you count Arteta, which I don't". Arteta can in fact play in pretty much every midfielder position as he show cased at Everton. This is untested as he has aged as he has only been used as a DLP since joining Arsenal.
2) Jack did actually play the anchor role quite successfully when we decided Denilson was pants
3) To call Wilshere a "poor mans Iniesta" is not saying that Wilshere is as good as Iniesta. I implore you to Google the definition of "poor man idiom" meaning.
4) Who said he is going to be the best CM in the world? Its presumptuous of you to say he won't be "close to it".
5) I think it is you that is confused about positions my friend, you insult his intelligence, after misreading what he said, then go on to say "So no it's not Ramsey and Wilshere as the box to box players it's Cazorla, Ozil, Wilshere, Ramsey and Rosicky.".. Cazorla, Ozil and Rosicky are not b2b midfielders at all.

You might re-read and understand the senselessness in arguing with you.. hence the trolling.

All you have shown is your ineptitude at having a coherent discussion and that you seem to have both a distorted perception of Wilsheres ability and a gross misunderstanding of how others perceive him, which leads me to believe you either have no idea what your talking about on a footballing level, or that your hatred is so severe that you have completely thrown rational thought out of the window.

I wouldn't even stoop to the insults if you weren't just so obnoxiously calling everybody who disagrees with your warped views an idiot.

by urbaNRoots Tue 30 Sep - 11:31:55

Overrated? If anything he's underrated like most English talents because they are English and don't have exciting names like those horribly overrated South American midfielders.

Wilshere is the closest thing I've seen to Iniesta and lately he's showed his inner Zidane with some sexy through balls, one can't dislike that unless he's biased.

by Donuts Tue 30 Sep - 11:33:09

can't really talk much about him, considering everytime i watch arsenal play he seems to be injured.

by Abramovich Tue 30 Sep - 12:49:38

dnmacs intentions are always so transparent.

Makes threads on premface this premface that and Wilshere is poo because Arsenal fans said he was better than Yaya one time Laughing

.

by Dnmac4 Wed 1 Oct - 3:05:54

Abramovich wrote:dnmacs intentions are always so transparent.

Makes threads on premface this premface that and Wilshere is poo because Arsenal fans said he was better than Yaya one time .

LOL, no let's get this straight. Arsenal fans said he was better than City's entire midfield including Yaya and Silva.

They said he could walk into any midfield in the world except Barca and Bayern. (Sit back and think about the total delusion there. How many players there basically saying he's better then)

They have a thread comparing him to Messi/saying he's the next Messi and a mod said they do have a similar style and are comparable dribblers of the ball and a ton of Arsenal fans often compare him to Iniesta.

A Mod said he was one of the most skilled players in the EPL then backs none of it up or even lets us know what he's elite at to make an insane statement like that.

Multiple fans in this thread and others said he will be the best CM in the game and that he has world class potential.

I really like Santi Cazorla a lot and that's part of it too that he has to sit on the bench or play winger (which everyone in England though he was anyway as they refuse to watch other leagues) so they can play Jack. I have never said Santi is a world class player. I know he's not one of the best midfielders in the world, I'm not insane but he's plenty better than Jack.

Not to mention this was all constructive about the abuse Ozil is receiving while Jack gets a free pass until someone (I wonder who that could be, the worst offender of all of this) chopped this up into a different thread and changed the title twice.

I also was also extremely kind to Arsenal to say if they played correctly they have a better midfield than Dortmond and there too good to start the season like this. I also took no shots at Ramsey, that's Arsenal fans doing that not to mention I said they have some of the best width in the league when healthy.

So your basically wrong on all fronts and you must agree with all of this right? You know since I'm so transparent. You believe all these things about Wilshere, right? I mean you think these are sane statements?

by izzy Wed 1 Oct - 3:26:31

Dnmac4 wrote:LOL, no let's get this straight. Arsenal fans said he was better than City's entire midfield including Yaya and Silva.

They said he could walk into any midfield in the world except Barca and Bayern. (Sit back and think about the total delusion there. How many players there basically saying he's better then)

They have a thread comparing him to Messi/saying he's the next Messi and a mod said they do have a similar style and are comparable dribblers of the ball and a ton of Arsenal fans often compare him to Iniesta.

A Mod said he was one of the most skilled players in the EPL then backs none of it up or even lets us know what he's elite at to make an insane statement like that.

Multiple fans in this thread and others said he will be the best CM in the game and that he has world class potential.

I really like Santi Cazorla a lot and that's part of it too that he has to sit on the bench or play winger (which everyone in England though he was anyway as they refuse to watch other leagues) so they can play Jack. I have never said Santi is a world class player. I know he's not one of the best midfielders in the world, I'm not insane but he's plenty better than Jack.

Not to mention this was all constructive about the abuse Ozil is receiving while Jack gets a free pass until someone (I wonder who that could be, the worst offender of all of this) chopped this up into a different thread and changed the title twice.

I also was also extremely kind to Arsenal to say if they played correctly they have a better midfield than Dortmond and there too good to start the season like this. I also took no shots at Ramsey, that's Arsenal fans doing that not to mention I said they have some of the best width in the league when healthy.

So your basically wrong on all fronts and you must agree with all of this right? You know since I'm so transparent. You believe all these things about Wilshere, right? I mean you think these are sane statements?

I am butthurt by Wilshere's talent - Page 3 20140711-140227-50547944

by Peccadillo Wed 1 Oct - 3:50:51

Dnmac4 wrote:
LOL, no let's get this straight. Arsenal fans said he was better than City's entire midfield including Yaya and Silva.

They said he could walk into any midfield in the world except Barca and Bayern. (Sit back and think about the total delusion there. How many players there basically saying he's better then)

They have a thread comparing him to Messi/saying he's the next Messi and a mod said they do have a similar style and are comparable dribblers of the ball and a ton of Arsenal fans often compare him to Iniesta.

A Mod said he was one of the most skilled players in the EPL then backs none of it up or even lets us know what he's elite at to make an insane statement like that.

Multiple fans in this thread and others said he will be the best CM in the game and that he has world class potential.

I really like Santi Cazorla a lot and that's part of it too that he has to sit on the bench or play winger (which everyone in England though he was anyway as they refuse to watch other leagues) so they can play Jack. I have never said Santi is a world class player. I know he's not one of the best midfielders in the world, I'm not insane but he's plenty better than Jack.

Not to mention this was all constructive about the abuse Ozil is receiving while Jack gets a free pass until someone (I wonder who that could be, the worst offender of all of this) chopped this up into a different thread and changed the title twice.

I also was also extremely kind to Arsenal to say if they played correctly they have a better midfield than Dortmond and there too good to start the season like this. I also took no shots at Ramsey, that's Arsenal fans doing that not to mention I said they have some of the best width in the league when healthy.

So your basically wrong on all fronts and you must agree with all of this right? You know since I'm so transparent. You believe all these things about Wilshere, right? I mean you think these are sane statements?

I am butthurt by Wilshere's talent - Page 3 LRaFG

by Dnmac4 Wed 1 Oct - 3:59:08

Peccadillo wrote:thanks for clearing that up, I love to read your posts in a whiney and over-excitable American accent.. I find it adds so much more value to my time reading them.

You have descended from a somewhat-close-to-rational-yet-still-incoherant position that the criticism of Ozil is unjustified, when you consider the concessions made for Wilshere, which I agreed with to some degree, to a drivelling mad-man who seems to be obsessing over an intense hatred for English players and Arsenal fans, with Jack Wilshere serving as the embodiment of your grievances.

You are now claiming that not only is Jack Wilshere over-rated, but that he is the sole reason for Arsenals sub-par performances recently and something of a cancer in the team, despite unquestionably being one of the better performers so far. You seem to imply that he decides where he plays and when he plays as if that is not the managers decision. You then go on to waffle on about "a contigent of Arsenal fans" have a special kind of delusion dedicated to Wilshere, as if to say fan favouritism is a trait exclusive to Arsenal fans, and also as if to say that every single opinion put forward by a fan, speaks for the club, or even for a contigent of the fan base.

The only points you are making that aren't ridiculous are your straw-man arguments, where you are (most likely) misunderstanding what other people are saying through your incomprehension of the english language, which makes the point completely redundant.

You're spending a lot of time picking out sound-bites of peoples previous posts, yet are completely failing to contextualise them or intepret their meaning properly. No one was saying Wilshere is, or ever has been, as good as Iniesta... You usually then go on to spout rubbish which was so much more inaccurate than the point you were insulting.

I'll give you an example;

Flick wrote: Uh Wilshere being english has nothing to do with him being on the team at all. He's a talented player while I don't hold him to high esteem as most Arsenal fans. I believe that he will be quality. He needs to be loaned out to get playing time honestly but, the lack of depth on Arsenal's midfield for the B2B position at Arsenal is really lacking. Arsenal has technically only 2 with Ramsey and Wilshere and 3 if you count Arteta which I don't. He's getting inconsistent playing time and he needs to be playing consistently to be consistent. At the very moment he's a poor mans Iniesta. He has the same qualities as Iniesta but he doesn't execute them like Iniesta.

You said in reply:
Dnmac4 wrote: Uh dude, I think your confusing positions. Jack and Ramsey don't play the same position as Arteta.
Yes, Arteta and Flamini are Arsenal's DM's not particularly good ones although Arteta used to be quality when played in the right position even though he is painfully slow. Yes Arsenal need a DM badly but that's not Jack or Ramsey.
Arsenal have an absolute gluttony of Central Midfielders and players who can play in an Iniesta type role the difference being they ALL want to drift centrally where Iniesta is one of the most tactically flexible players I have ever seen. And you being an Arsenal fan I appreciate the fact that you prefaced your statement but please no more Arsenal fans putting Wilshere and Iniesta's name in the same sentence there not even in the same universe.
So no it's not Ramsey and Wilshere as the box to box players it's Cazorla, Ozil, Wilshere, Ramsey and Rosicky.
And loaned out to get playing time? The guy plays pretty much every game when when fit. I do agree though if he weren't English he wouldn't be on the team anymore he would have been loaned out or sold.
Also, just stop it. If it walks like a duck, quack's like a duck, it'as a freaking duck. Jack is what he is. He has a million hours of film to watch and issues with the feel of the game, positional sense, finishing/providing in the final third and giving the ball away/being wasteful etc.
He is never going to be the best CM In the world or anywhere close to it, so please just stop.

1) He wasn't confusing positions, he said "if you count Arteta, which I don't". Arteta can in fact play in pretty much every midfielder position as he show cased at Everton. This is untested as he has aged as he has only been used as a DLP since joining Arsenal.
2) Jack did actually play the anchor role quite successfully when we decided Denilson was pants
3) To call Wilshere a "poor mans Iniesta" is not saying that Wilshere is as good as Iniesta. I implore you to Google the definition of "poor man idiom" meaning.
4) Who said he is going to be the best CM in the world? Its presumptuous of you to say he won't be "close to it".
5) I think it is you that is confused about positions my friend, you insult his intelligence, after misreading what he said, then go on to say "So no it's not Ramsey and Wilshere as the box to box players it's Cazorla, Ozil, Wilshere, Ramsey and Rosicky.".. Cazorla, Ozil and Rosicky are not b2b midfielders at all.

You might re-read and understand the senselessness in arguing with you.. hence the trolling.

All you have shown is your ineptitude at having a coherent discussion and that you seem to have both a distorted perception of Wilsheres ability and a gross misunderstanding of how others perceive him, which leads me to believe you either have no idea what your talking about on a footballing level, or that your hatred is so severe that you have completely thrown rational thought out of the window.

I wouldn't even stoop to the insults if you weren't just so obnoxiously calling everybody who disagrees with your warped views an idiot.

Since a lot of your post is nonsensical I'm just going to grab the things you made a point to list.

"1) He wasn't confusing positions, he said "if you count Arteta, which I don't". Arteta can in fact play in pretty much every midfielder position as he show cased at Everton. This is untested as he has aged as he has only been used as a DLP since joining Arsenal."

What are you even saying? Arteta played at Everton over 4 years ago. You know how long that is in football terms ask the Spanish national team they will tell you. You know as well as I do that Flamini or Arteta play DM and the rest (Jack,Ramsey,Cazorla,Rocisky,Ozil) are central mid players who like to get forward and occupy the same space. How you are even arguing that is stunning and shows a total lack of knowledge about your own team.

"2) Jack did actually play the anchor role quite successfully when we decided Denilson was pants"

Again refer to point one, you know Jack is not an anchor midfielder and if he was he'd be even more out of position all the time. YOU SAY he played there successfully well your coach doesn't think so because he keeps dragging out the corpses of Flamini and Arteta to play that role when they get owned on the regular. So basically you are the only person who believes, well I don't even know what you believe because you know he's not even being played there so what in god's name is your point?

A lot of players have played other positions we are having a discussion about now The present, what is happening at Arsenal now and I will stick with the point I've been making forever no one even knows what position Jack is best at because he's not elite at anything and he drifts all over the place out of position.

I'm glad you think he's better then Denilson, for god's sake I would hope so.

"3) To call Wilshere a "poor mans Iniesta" is not saying that Wilshere is as good as Iniesta. I implore you to Google the definition of "poor man idiom" meaning."

LOL, try reading the person you quoted. He says he's a poor mans Iniesta and then follows that up the very next sentence with "He has the same qualities as Iniesta but he doesn't execute them like Iniesta."

I see is he saving his Inesta qualities for some other time? What freaking quality does he poses that's on the same level as Iniesta?

I used to play basketball in college, Small Forward in fact and I could pass really well and score. Do I share the same qualities as LeBron James am I just not executing them like him? I mean what does that even mean.

Do you think everyone who knows how to hold a pencil and write or type on the computer is the next Shakespeare they just aren't executing?

4) "Who said he is going to be the best CM in the world? Its presumptuous of you to say he won't be "close to it".

You're kidding right? It's presumptuous for me to say Jack Wilshere is not going to be the best Central Midfielder in the world? Are you joking? What planet do you live on to even think this is possible? He has no elite skills. He's not great at anything including intangibles which aren't physical skills like reading the game, being in the right place at the right time, knowing when to make a run and when to hold back, organizing a midfield to keep it's shape etc etc

Not every CM has to be a great athlete or super skilled but he doesn't show any reason for anyone to think he's going to be the best CM in the world. There are hours and hours of tape to watch we are not judging a kid anymore. He's a professional a veteran on this Arsenal team. Get with it.

Oh and the person who said he'd be the best CM in the world is the guy who's quote you grabbed (Flick I believe) and then cut off to serve your own purposes. It's below.

"His footballing IQ is actually mediocre from the games I've seen but if he can improve on that he'll be one of the best MFs in the world." -Flick (the part you ignored)

"5) I think it is you that is confused about positions my friend, you insult his intelligence, after misreading what he said, then go on to say "So no it's not Ramsey and Wilshere as the box to box players it's Cazorla, Ozil, Wilshere, Ramsey and Rosicky.".. Cazorla, Ozil and Rosicky are not b2b midfielders at all."

Again, what in god's name are you talking about? Box to Box is a term thrown around that can mean a lot of things. Him referring to Ramsey and Wilshere as Box to Box players means he's talking about the players that play the same position as them or need to be moved so they can play those positions. Santi is a Box to Box player, Ozil plays Box to Box, and Rocisky plays there s well and they ALL drift centrally.

Look at Yaya Toure since he moved further up the field from DM people have called him a Box to Box player a CM/AM. Arsenal have a million of those types of player. Too many. A DM is a DM, hence Busquets is not a Box to box player a lot of DM's get no where near the box when attacking or they would be countered in a heartbeat. Gerrard, Lampard are Box to box players, I don't think anyone ever confused the with a DM. Especially in Arsenal's system and how attacking all there mid's are outside of Flamini and Arteta.

He was wrong and you are wrong. I hope you learned something about your favorite team.

by Dnmac4 Wed 1 Oct - 4:04:18

Peccadillo wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:
LOL, no let's get this straight. Arsenal fans said he was better than City's entire midfield including Yaya and Silva.

They said he could walk into any midfield in the world except Barca and Bayern. (Sit back and think about the total delusion there. How many players there basically saying he's better then)

They have a thread comparing him to Messi/saying he's the next Messi and a mod said they do have a similar style and are comparable dribblers of the ball and a ton of Arsenal fans often compare him to Iniesta.

A Mod said he was one of the most skilled players in the EPL then backs none of it up or even lets us know what he's elite at to make an insane statement like that.

Multiple fans in this thread and others said he will be the best CM in the game and that he has world class potential.

I really like Santi Cazorla a lot and that's part of it too that he has to sit on the bench or play winger (which everyone in England though he was anyway as they refuse to watch other leagues) so they can play Jack. I have never said Santi is a world class player. I know he's not one of the best midfielders in the world, I'm not insane but he's plenty better than Jack.

Not to mention this was all constructive about the abuse Ozil is receiving while Jack gets a free pass until someone (I wonder who that could be, the worst offender of all of this) chopped this up into a different thread and changed the title twice.

I also was also extremely kind to Arsenal to say if they played correctly they have a better midfield than Dortmond and there too good to start the season like this. I also took no shots at Ramsey, that's Arsenal fans doing that not to mention I said they have some of the best width in the league when healthy.

So your basically wrong on all fronts and you must agree with all of this right? You know since I'm so transparent. You believe all these things about Wilshere, right? I mean you think these are sane statements?

I actually laughed at the first guys post. But you copying it was pretty typical of you. Unoriginal with nothing of note to say other than passing someone else's joke off as your own.

Wow, your boyfriend must get pretty tired of you.

by Peccadillo Wed 1 Oct - 4:23:10

Dnmac4 wrote:
Again, what in god's name are you talking about? Box to Box is a term thrown around that can mean a lot of things. Him referring to Ramsey and Wilshere as Box to Box players means he's talking about the players that play the same position as them or need to be moved so they can play those positions. Santi is a Box to Box player, Ozil plays Box to Box, and Rocisky plays there s well and they ALL drift centrally.

Look at Yaya Toure since he moved further up the field from DM people have called him a Box to Box player a CM/AM. Arsenal have a million of those types of player. Too many. A DM is a DM, hence Busquets is not a Box to box player a lot of DM's get no where near the box when attacking or they would be countered in a heartbeat. Gerrard, Lampard are Box to box players, I don't think anyone ever confused the with a DM. Especially in Arsenal's system and how attacking all there mid's are outside of Flamini and Arteta.

He was wrong and you are wrong. I hope you learned something about your favorite team.

you're a new kind of stupid..

OK.. Ozil, Santi and Rosicky are b2b midfielders.. you're right, I am wrong. Arsenal fans are dumb, Wilshere is a joke, England should be bombed and I should go and kill myself. Laughing

by CBarca Wed 1 Oct - 6:00:49

dnmac i have an english paper due next week friday

it's on ethan frome by edith wharton, would love it by next wednesday for peer editing m8 thnx

by julias Wed 1 Oct - 8:41:29

CBarca wrote:dnmac i have an english paper due next week friday

it's on ethan frome by edith wharton, would love it by next wednesday for peer editing m8 thnx

You might want to check for those grammatical/spelling errors.

That inability to use the right forms of there/their/they're will kill you bruh What a Face

by Lex Wed 1 Oct - 10:37:35

This thread :facepalm:

by Kick Wed 1 Oct - 10:53:53

Yeah this thread is rather pointless and is going nowhere.
I am locking it before it gets out of hand.

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