Most Effective Player of 2015-16

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:41 pm

https://i.imgur.com/SNzSAy8.png

What leagues are included?
The only leagues included are the local league, the Champions League, and the Europa League.

Why are the other leagues not included?
Because whoscored doesn't provide minutes played for the other leagues, so it would be hard to adjust based on that.

Transfermarkt has minutes for more leagues than whoscored, why are you not using it for the data instead?
Transfermarkt has a very broad definition of what an assist is. For instance, if a player gets fouled in the box and then scores the ensuing penalty, he will get both an assist and a goal for that. This makes their data unreliable and the users here have asked to use whoscored instead, which is compiled using Opta data. The trade off for this further reliability is that less competitions are taken into account.

Why is Player X not in the list?
Does he have 900 minutes played in the relevant leagues? If yes, please post about him and I will fix the list.

by Harmonica Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:44 pm

Bale, knee injured Messi. :bow:

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:44 pm

Is this Messi's most human legue ever? 15 league goals by February.

Btw the gap between Ibra and 2nd in Ligue 1 is enormous. And if we look outside of Paris SG it's even more ridiculous.

by Harmonica Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:02 pm

Btw why it's league only? When you play more, like Barca, less energy or form you have for league? Not really good comparison. Messi has 1,63 ratio outside league, which meant Uefa Supercup, Club World Cup titles and Copa Del Rey final.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:04 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:What leagues are included?
The only leagues included are the local league, the Champions League, and the Europa League.

Why are the other leagues not included?
Because whoscored doesn't provide minutes played for the other leagues, so it would be hard to adjust based on that.

Transfermarkt has minutes for more leagues than whoscored, why are you not using it for the data instead?
Transfermarkt has a very broad definition of what an assist is. For instance, if a player gets fouled in the box and then scores the ensuing penalty, he will get both an assist and a goal for that. This makes their data unreliable and the users here have asked to use whoscored instead, which is compiled using Opta data. The trade off for this further reliability is that less competitions are taken into account.

by Harmonica Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:07 pm

I think transfermarkt has already fixed the penalty anomaly.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:17 pm

Hmm, interesting. But their assist definition is still wider than most, correct? For instance, Messi got an assist today for Neymar's goal, which was not a direct pass:

https://streamable.com/o2kx

It's ultimately up to you guys, if most people would prefer I update from transfermarkt now that the penalty anomaly is fixed I can take it from there going forward. It would certainly be more complete, but the assists are "wide".

by Harmonica Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:19 pm

Most effective should include wide assists, because it portrays better involvement on the goals, if Messi doesn't shoot it, there's no goal.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:25 pm

That's an argument to be made, but I think when most people read "assist" they think "direct pass", not deflection or foul that gave a penalty.

In any case, like I said before, I'm willing to change the source if that's what GL wants.

by M99 Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:37 pm

Bale

@Freeza pls respond

by Thimmy Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:47 pm

Harmonica wrote:Bale, knee injured Messi.

But when Cristiano injures his knee, it's just a cowardly excuse for his incompetence? Very Happy

by Kaladin Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:10 am

Fantastic work BC, great job Very Happy

Also, who is Borja Boston? hmm

by rwo power Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:23 am

Nice work, BC! Thumbs up

I'm really impressed that Raffael made the list. Oh, and Mikhi is another assist monster ^^

BTW, you have a typo in Manchester, and it's M'gladbach (the apostrophe stands for the omission of "önchen" from "Mönchengladbach")

by Curtinho Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:36 am

I think the title should be 'most productive player', but otherwise I always love this.

Bale :bow:

People love to hate on Ronaldo, but his consistency at the top of the world is truly unreal. Hats off to him.

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:43 am

Curtinho wrote:I think the title should be 'most productive player', but otherwise I always love this.

Bale

People love to hate on Ronaldo, but his consistency at the top of the world is truly unreal. Hats off to him.

Productive implies totals, effective best use of time available

Thanks rwo, I'll fix em up in the source for next time

For all this talk of MSN, it's BBC that are in the top 5 hmm

by rwo power Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:52 am

BTW, you might want to add Marco Reus: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/41330/

He has 13 goals and 4 assists in 1508 minutes, according to whoscored.

by M99 Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:03 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Curtinho wrote:I think the title should be 'most productive player', but otherwise I always love this.

Bale

People love to hate on Ronaldo, but his consistency at the top of the world is truly unreal. Hats off to him.
Productive implies totals, effective best use of time available

Thanks rwo, I'll fix em up in the source for next time

For all this talk of MSN, it's BBC that are in the top 5

Most Efficient Player then imo hmm

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:13 am

Updated the OP with Reus, James and Imanol. Raffael has been kicked out Row.

M99 efficient might be the more correct word

Also what the hell happened to Lacazette? From beasting this list last year to 12 goals 0 assists in 2383 minutes (or a goal every 199 minutes) Laughing

by El Messico Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:55 am

Not sure with using "effective" as the adjective of choice here. Bale isn't really the most effective player in Europe. If he were, his team would not be languishing 7 points behind the league leaders and lose 0-4 to them at home.

An effective player is one who helps his team win games the most. Bale (or any of the RM forwards) can hardly be called that given that the bulk of their production is concentrated against Malmo, Espanyol and Rayo.

by titosantill Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:24 am

i get very upset when i see lists/awards/accolades and its one of our players yet the position on the league table or end product says otherwise (And by end product i'm not talking about beating malmo, gijon, deportivo et al). i feel as disgusted as how i felt when i saw the fifpro list and saw our players on, also when i saw the la liga 11 list (i can't remember who ranked/rated/put out that list) and saw names of some of our players on it

i don't care how much numbers we crunch, scrutinize, analyze, or asses; bale isn't the most "effective" player...i also have a problem with the term "effective"- way too broad and obviously very attack minded (i guess you can make the case that goals win games, but in that case, a best striker list)

by titosantill Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:25 am

a bit off topic, i really like what vardy and mahrez r doing at Leicester...someone compared it to super depor- not even close; from the time bebeto got to depor, they became a reasonably respectable team. what those boys and Leicester have done so far is crazy.

but back to the topic, maybe it should be a goal-minute ratio/ even productive 'attacker' than a "most effective player" analysis. some guy on a side that isn't elite could be considered more effective than guys like bale on stacked squads, that create a lot of chances; simply because he is scoring off the few opportunities his team barely manages to create. not to mention the defensive roles being ignored.....i hate to over-analyze it and sound like i'm bashing your effort, but that's just my take on this

by Hapless_Hans Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:59 am

titosantill wrote:
i don't care how much numbers we crunch, scrutinize, analyze, or asses; bale isn't the most "effective" player...i also have a problem with the term "effective"- way too broad and obviously very attack minded (i guess you can make the case that goals win games, but in that case, a best striker list)

I had the same fight with Curtinho just a few weeks ago. It's one of these cases where I think stats are simply misleading or not exact enough to give a useful result or make a good statement.

I reminded him that Bale scored 5 goals, was it?, in the space of a half time against a 9 men Rayo.
Obviously that boosts his stats (not sure what the other instances were when he scored), but just making an AVERAGE of goals and assists per 90 minutes isn't always the whole story.
The answer was, oh but everyone, MSN, play Rayo at some point, so they have the same opportunity as Bale to score against them. 2 men sent off though, that's a difference. It just is.

In a way, not ENOUGH numbers are crunched and analysed, not enough parameters processed, in such a case.

by Unique Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:53 pm

so bale has gone from the worst scrub in the world to being madrids best player in less than 9 months :bow:

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:09 pm

El Messico wrote:Not sure with using "effective" as the adjective of choice here. Bale isn't really the most effective player in Europe. If he were, his team would not be languishing 7 points behind the league leaders and lose 0-4 to them at home.

An effective player is one who helps his team win games the most. Bale (or any of the RM forwards) can hardly be called that given that the bulk of their production is concentrated against Malmo, Espanyol and Rayo.

But this is not an individual sport, and Bale has been injured this season a lot (barely played 13 full matches by the end of February). So perhaps the solution to RM's woes is to play Bale more? hmm

titosantill wrote:i get very upset when i see lists/awards/accolades and its one of our players yet the position on the league table or end product says otherwise (And by end product i'm not talking about beating malmo, gijon, deportivo et al). i feel as disgusted as how i felt when i saw the fifpro list and saw our players on, also when i saw the la liga 11 list (i can't remember who ranked/rated/put out that list) and saw names of some of our players on it

i don't care how much numbers we crunch, scrutinize, analyze, or asses; bale isn't the most "effective" player...i also have a problem with the term "effective"- way too broad and obviously very attack minded (i guess you can make the case that goals win games, but in that case, a best striker list)

Effective as he has the most impact on the pitch. Obviously in Bale's case this is somewhat of an anomaly as his contributions are mostly on 3 or so games, so what we should expect to happen is that as Bale starts playing more his numbers will normalize and revert to the mean.

When is he expected to be back anyways?

by titosantill Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:33 pm

i don't even think the doctor knows when bale will be back. what's for sure is, when he comes back, he'll get injured again. if not this season, then like twice next season. what's amusing is someway somehow there's this rumor making the rounds that people in the club think its the grass at the bernabeu causing it....newsflash, he doesn't only play at the bernabeu, hell he doesn't even train there, not to mention when grass started causing calf problems. the man has had muscle, hamstring, back and foot injuries

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