Re: Overwatch Part 2

by Bellabong Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:32 pm

Thimmy wrote:
Phritz wrote:ELO Hell isn't what he describes it is. ELO hell is when you're good enough to be better than everyone on your team but you're not that much better to carry the game. People naturally deflect and blame others. His description of ELO hell is the childish interpretation; like I've said before: Here we go with ELO drama again

Carry your team? That's a CoD term,

No it's not lol. The usage of carrying a team is older than videogames and it's been used in team based games since before CoD4. Console or PC it doesn't matter what control scheme is used if the player is simply better.

You can either take the word of someone who's been playing team based soloqueue games with an ELO based ranking system for over a decade (And has been top %) or you can form your own thoughts which I've seen hundreds of thousands of times and repeated by millions before from people who can't accept their own skill level.

ELO with a large sample size is the best system we've got. If you can come up with a better system by all means do; it's not like we haven't been trying for the past 15 years. As soon as you start rewarding ranking for anything other than Win/Loss you jeopardize the integrity of the system; especially once it gets out what is rewarded.

by Firenze Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:45 pm

if I lose more than I win in this upcoming session im snapping my disc and never playing it again 100% serious

tired of f'n genji retards that never change and dumbass randoms, ain't got time for this bs, would rather play some single player games

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:50 pm

Just play quick match man, we had fun then outside of the odd Torjborn spam Why do we need to prove ourselves to random people. Laughing

I personally couldn't care less about it all tbh, none of his really raged much outside of Torjborn BS until competitive happened. I played the game because it was fun, not because i had this high opinion of myself that i have to test that against other people.

Really couldn't care less and just want to enjoy myself, competition is overrated and don't really play games to compete.

by Thimmy Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:24 pm

Phritz wrote:
Thimmy wrote:
Phritz wrote:ELO Hell isn't what he describes it is. ELO hell is when you're good enough to be better than everyone on your team but you're not that much better to carry the game. People naturally deflect and blame others. His description of ELO hell is the childish interpretation; like I've said before: Here we go with ELO drama again

Carry your team? That's a CoD term,

No it's not lol. The usage of carrying a team is older than videogames and it's been used in team based games since before CoD4. Console or PC it doesn't matter what control scheme is used if the player is simply better.

Figure of speech. I compared it to CoD, because that's a game where it's relatively easy to carry your team. I have yet to see anyone on OW console even get close to performing such a feat. I don't care even a little where the term originates from, or how long you've known about it

You can either take the word of someone who's been playing team based soloqueue games with an ELO based ranking system for over a decade (And has been top %) or you can form your own thoughts which I've seen hundreds of thousands of times and repeated by millions before from people who can't accept their own skill level.

Did you even read my whole post? All I see here is your typical, holier than thou attitude.

ELO with a large sample size is the best system we've got. If you can come up with a better system by all means do; it's not like we haven't been trying for the past 15 years. As soon as you start rewarding ranking for anything other than Win/Loss you jeopardize the integrity of the system; especially once it gets out what is rewarded.

I don't doubt that the system works well for full teams of 6 players, but it´s bound to piss off the majority of casual players on console, who don't have the luxury of playing on a full team. The matchmaking system is shitting all over players who go into comp with randoms on their team. Where's the problem, you say? Ask Blizzard, once their console consumers stop playing the game. Making small changes will jeopardize it's integrity? I'm pretty sure they already removed the absolutely unreasonable, sudden death, in the pro tournaments. I wouldn't be surprised if they do something similar on console, and I can think of a dozen ways to settle a draw better than to give the attacking team a handicap.

by LeVersacci Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:15 pm

Deceased at the second bold part rofl

by LeVersacci Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:00 am

Can't

by Firenze Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:08 am

my experience with this game today

Overwatch Part 2 - Page 24 PILRiuX

by LeVersacci Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:17 am

I think we should start playing without party chat. This way randoms can hear us & we can tell them to group up, combine ults, change useless chars, callouts etc.

Seen a few complain about it on battle.net

But yeah meh session today. If it weren't for that 8 win last night I would have killed myself.

I'm still learning tactics & stuff from solo queuing, streams etc. though.

by Firenze Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:22 am

https://www.twitch.tv/beatinvitational

agree about party chat thing

by Luca Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:28 am

LOL @ that image

I would also add Torb/Bastion. I think both are very situational, deadly if used right but shouldn't just be blind picked

Anyways, when we played earlier I thought we did alright. I think we definitely should have won a couple more games but I believe we went 2-2 or 3-2, something like that.

If ya'll had to make a tier list, what would it look like?

Mine would be something like:

God Tier (you need at least 1 of these on your team):
Mercy
Lucio
Reinhardt
Winston
Zarya
Pharah

GOAT tier (good on any map against just about any other champion if executed correctly)
Soldier 76
Roadhog
Reaper
Genji* (but the solo queue GODs you'll queue with on console don't seem that great and will blindly pick him and not be great in most cases)
Hanzo* (similar to Genji but bailed out by his utility with providing sight, aoe ult and massive hitbox)

Good tier (skill + situation, needs buffs possibly)
Symmetra
Junkrat (you need high ground or confined spaces, more from what I've seen in streams and tournaments from higher level players)
Mei
Bastion
Torbjorn
Widowmaker
D. Va (she needs a buff in my opinion)
McCree (post-nerf, although I still think he's pretty strong)
Zenyatta (needs a buff)

---------------------------

Basically, how I see it, beyond the coordination you need to be playing the GOD tier or the "META" heroes as much as you can, every team needs a combination of the heroes from the first list. I liken it to League of Legends, certain heroes are stronger depending on the patch/team composition. Seagull even said something along the lines of playing what is the best right now because it works.

Apart from that, it comes down to the context of each game
If a Pharah is dominating -> you need a Soldier, Widow, Hanzo, anything that can match the range on her

If they're running a bunch of tanks -> Roadhog/Reaper are great anti-tanks

And the list goes on

by Bellabong Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:12 am

Thimmy I've played enough yoloqueue Mercy and observed the game on a macro level to see it being possible to single-handedly carry a game (granted most of the times its me supporting them that enables them to carry). Either you're saying console players are all shit; which even I don't want to believe or you're in such low elo that everyone is just bad and you seemingly can't carry bad players. Maybe it's because you haven't played mobas aren't used to thinking about a game like you would Poker.

Thimmy your post is you complaining about the system and I'm telling you the system works; what did I miss? If you're losing a huge amount of points when you lose and gain very little when you win then all that means is that you're overrated. (and that Blizzard masks your true ELO like Riot)

Luca; you're missing THE anti-tank - Zenyatta. IMO there's only 3 must have heroes - Pharrah for air superiority and her entire kit; Mercy because her ability to just straight up counter multiple ults and Lucio because he's the Sona of Overwatch; maybe Zarya because she enables ults that are otherwise unviable at a high level of play but teams can just spread out against her.

And don't think that there aren't idiots on PC either. Just watched a Junkrat keep firing even though I monkey shielded his face. Twice. I wish it wasn't at the end of the match so I could how many times he would do it since I only switched to Winston at the end of that set rofl

by CBarca Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:20 am

What? I thought it was case closed that competitive is awful atm

Blizzard will fix it but right now...no lol

Also it sounds like y'all just miss me on your team. When I'm back in action it will smooth out a bit

by Thimmy Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:23 pm

Phritz wrote:Thimmy I've played enough yoloqueue Mercy and observed the game on a macro level to see it being possible to single-handedly carry a game (granted most of the times its me supporting them that enables them to carry). Either you're saying console players are all shit; which even I don't want to believe or you're in such low elo that everyone is just bad and you seemingly can't carry bad players. Maybe it's because you haven't played mobas aren't used to thinking about a game like you would Poker.

Thimmy your post is you complaining about the system and I'm telling you the system works; what did I miss? If you're losing a huge amount of points when you lose and gain very little when you win then all that means is that you're overrated. (and that Blizzard masks your true ELO like Riot)

Luca; you're missing THE anti-tank - Zenyatta. IMO there's only 3 must have heroes - Pharrah for air superiority and her entire kit; Mercy because her ability to just straight up counter multiple ults and Lucio because he's the Sona of Overwatch; maybe Zarya because she enables ults that are otherwise unviable at a high level of play but teams can just spread out against her.

And don't think that there aren't idiots on PC either. Just watched a Junkrat keep firing even though I monkey shielded his face. Twice. I wish it wasn't at the end of the match so I could how many times he would do it since I only switched to Winston at the end of that set

I haven't played Overwatch on PC, but I've watched some of the streams that Firenze has posted on here. On PC, you have higher mobility, far better accuracy across the board, and more importantly, lightning fast aim speed, not restricted by a console sensitivity cap. Not to mention, far better optimization for controls. It's just a better game overall, which I'm sure you're pleased to hear about Laughing

No one was surprised when the best player on my old Call of Duty team revealed that he used a mouse and a keyboard. I always wondered how he was so insanely accurate, especially with throwing knives. PC and console simply play out differently, and even Blizzard don't seem to have taken that into account. I don't know why they were surprised that PC and console will require different tweaks and patches.

by Thimmy Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:26 pm

CBarca wrote:

Also it sounds like y'all just miss me on your team. When I'm back in action it will smooth out a bit

Is this CB, jr? Doesn't matter, we miss you both Very Happy

by CBarca Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:07 pm

Tbf thimmy I don't think they were surprised...think they planned this from the beginning.

It's difficult to anticipate though, so the game plan is to balance around the PC and then adjust for console. PC is the main platform and the one the competitive scene is built around so it makes sense.

by LeVersacci Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:31 pm

Rank 65

Can't wait till they fix that bug so you don't get 10% xp when the opposite team leaves.

~~Carried~~ played with Firenze to 60 and we had some good teammates except for 2 games.

Randoms at 50+ is just disgusting + leavers making it very hard to climb the ladder.

by LeVersacci Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:32 pm

Zarya is OP af. Can see her getting nerfed tbf.

Gonna use that beast until then.

by Thimmy Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:45 pm

Have you been able to predict a random's skill level based on their rank? I've mentioned this before, I played with a lot of high levels on my team, that night when I went on a losing streak in comp with randoms. We mostly had good team compositions, but we got steamrolled by the other team due to the difference in ability, which tells me that the high ranked guys had probably been carried by their respective teams. Having high ranked team members gives you the "top dog" disadvantage, and that just made losing more annoying.

by Firenze Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:45 pm

im 1 win away from 60 actually Sad

tomorrow for sure and I agree, still get morons in the early 60s at times but at least everyone plays the objective

by Firenze Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:46 pm

also blizzard rofl

had 1 game where our team was all 60s and 3 70+ while the other team were all 50s rofl

by Bellabong Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:47 am

Got around to watching some console Overwatch. I thought you were exaggerating Thimmy; as much as I wanted what you said to be true but console Overwatch really is that gimped... I though the difference would be more like CoD and Battlefront console vs PC wise but it's more like Counterstrike qua differences between the versions.

This makes me kinda sad because of the implications for Quake.

As for ranked matchmaking; treat this like a THR or League of LEgends ladder reset; ranked is going to be a crapshoot for a month; and LoL has only had soft resets for the past few years.

by Bellabong Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:17 am

The console nightmare rofl

by Thimmy Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:36 am

Phritz wrote:Got around to watching some console Overwatch. I thought you were exaggerating Thimmy; as much as I wanted what you said to be true but console Overwatch really is that gimped... I though the difference would be more like CoD and Battlefront console vs PC wise but it's more like Counterstrike qua differences between the versions.

This makes me kinda sad because of the implications for Quake.

As for ranked matchmaking; treat this like a THR or League of LEgends ladder reset; ranked is going to be a crapshoot for a month; and LoL has only had soft resets for the past few years.

I noticed when watching pro matches on PC, that a Tracer blinked past an enemy, instantly turned 180 degrees to attach her ult to the enemy's back, then recalled out of harm's way. I wish you could do that on console. I've been in a similar situation where I miscalculated the distance of blink, and ended up behind my target. It takes such a damn long time to rotate 180 degrees on console, so there's usually no point in even attempting to do something like that. It would just be inefficient and look silly.

I think it's pretty clear that Blizzard intend to focus primarily on the PC version of Overwatch, and then fix issues on console when they get around to it. So, I'm not keeping my hopes up in regard to them improving the god awful aim optimization on console. It's not a priority, and it's clearly not something the majority of consumers on console care much about. I'm a bit surprised that more people haven't brought up the issue of how clunky it feels, though. As silly as it sounds, whoever created the control settings and added the default deadzone parameter on console(without adding deadzone customization :facepalm:

), must not be very familiar with how FPS games play out on console. You'd think they did, but I can only think of a few games created over the past decade and a half that feel more clunky. As if the clunky aiming wasn't enough, they slapped aim assist in our faces, as a "sorry can't do any better, here's a little something for your trouble" rofl

by Thimmy Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:47 am

I want this so badly, but my girlfriend would kill me if I'd bought it Mad

by Bellabong Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:14 am

tbh still can't believe that's the Overwatch GL is playing.

why so plebby

The only legacy I have of an epic 3-2 match with all points going to overtime with multiple wombo combos from both teams and just match of the year. (that wasn't my highligh either - got a match winning ult on both their dps's at the end of the last match but it happened outside of the point are so it didn't count as much ZzZz

Thanks for the lack of replays Blizz; really let us down there.

by Bellabong Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:35 am

compare this to the mercy's you guys have to play with

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