Re: Who will be the Democrats' presidential candidate against Trump?

by Young Kaz Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:41 pm

Blue wrote:@Young Kaz

Some people are absolutely incapable of critical thinking. You realize what is going on at the border happened under Obama too. There is a reason Obama was called "Deporter in Chief" and you also realize that more than a few months ago the Dems approved Trump border budget without making amends or demands on how they threat people at the border.

Sanders has the highest support among non-white voters in the Dems primary. Again if you look at any data and polls you would know this, but i guess it is much better having weirdos on twitter crating narrative for you.

Seriously what is wrong with some people, that they show no concern about election interference and undermining our democracy. Clear corruption is being displayed, but they don't care because the target is someone they don't like.

I remember thinking early on when i first got into politics, how tribal and mindless those conservative were supporting clear corruptions from the republican party. I thought Liberals were much better and higher standard because they were more intelligent and cultured. Thought facts, truth, data, etc mattered. But i have come to realize for a long time actually they are no different, they can't overcome their tribality and see things for what they are.

obama sent them home he didnt keep them in cages split up from their parents. The idea that he did is fake news.

We are gonna see if Sanders have minority support when we get to the south where minorities run things...guess what. He will be slaughtered there.

Sanders succeeds where there are a bunch of white people sitting around thinking about how they can give each other free stuff, while giving nothing to people who dont look like them. Hence the reason he had to run to a white area to have any sort of political career.

by Freeza Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:05 pm

He isn’t giving anyone free stuff.

It’s paid for. By taxes.

by Blue Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:14 pm

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/461230-biden-incorrectly-claims-obama-administration-didnt-separate-families

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-build-cages-immigrants/

Yea he did, difference is Trump had a policy under the "zero tolerance" policy. While under Obama they did but without having the policy in place.

A reasonable person who actually cares about this issue would reckon with both practices. Currently the Dems have a majority in the house, they could have fought Trump policy but they won't.

by Unique Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:05 pm

Blue wrote:@Young Kaz

Some people are absolutely incapable of critical thinking. You realize what is going on at the border happened under Obama too. There is a reason Obama was called "Deporter in Chief" and you also realize that more than a few months ago the Dems approved Trump border budget without making amends or demands on how they threat people at the border.

Sanders has the highest support among non-white voters in the Dems primary. Again if you look at any data and polls you would know this, but i guess it is much better having weirdos on twitter crating narrative for you.

Seriously what is wrong with some people, that they show no concern about election interference and undermining our democracy. Clear corruption is being displayed, but they don't care because the target is someone they don't like.

I remember thinking early on when i first got into politics, how tribal and mindless those conservative were supporting clear corruptions from the republican party. I thought Liberals were much better and higher standard because they were more intelligent and cultured. Thought facts, truth, data, etc mattered. But i have come to realize for a long time actually they are no different, they can't overcome their tribality and see things for what they are.

i also wonder why people pick out trump as a war monger when i see stuff like this. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy

i think lots of people over look the stuff obama did because he was the first black president and they dont want the first black president to go down as a bad one.

by Unique Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:09 pm

also read that most of the countries on trumps no fly list that people talk about were getting bombed by obama can any US lads confirm if that is true or not.

by Young Kaz Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:18 pm

Freeza wrote:He isn’t giving anyone free stuff.

It’s paid for. By taxes.

Whos paying those taxes. Surely not everybody.

Blue wrote:https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/461230-biden-incorrectly-claims-obama-administration-didnt-separate-families

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-build-cages-immigrants/

Yea he did, difference is Trump had a policy under the "zero tolerance" policy. While under Obama they did but without having the policy in place.

A reasonable person who actually cares about this issue would reckon with both practices. Currently the Dems have a majority in the house, they could have fought Trump policy but they won't.

I stand corrected on this.

by McLewis Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:48 pm

Regarding Obama - He was not infallible. Far from it. He's largest successes were largely related to the economy, which is why he was re-elected over Romney. Beyond that, his foreign policy was perhaps his weakest spot and his administration weren't always above board with the media though it was a farcry from Trump's relationship with the media.

His policies relating to immigration were pretty moderate honestly. His administration tried to follow the law as close to the letter as possible, which resulted in lots of deportations naturally. Even then it was predictably messy. I think it gets lost in current context, but Obama took a lot of flack from his left on this issue and received virtually no credit from the right as well, which isn't surprising.

Where his immigration policy and Trump's diverge is that Trump used his policy as a punitive deterrent and a cudgel. Obama did not. That's a significant difference and its one I point out every time some says "Well Obama started it" or "Obama did it too".

There is no way Obama could've gotten away with what Trump has without the media lighting him up about it. They were friendly to him, but they absolutely would not have given him a pass if his policy led to what we're seeing now at the border.

by Unique Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:06 pm

McLewis wrote:Regarding Obama - He was not infallible. Far from it. He's largest successes were largely related to the economy, which is why he was re-elected over Romney. Beyond that, his foreign policy was perhaps his weakest spot and his administration weren't always above board with the media though it was a farcry from Trump's relationship with the media.

His policies relating to immigration were pretty moderate honestly. His administration tried to follow the law as close to the letter as possible, which resulted in lots of deportations naturally. Even then it was predictably messy. I think it gets lost in current context, but Obama took a lot of flack from his left on this issue and received virtually no credit from the right as well, which isn't surprising.

Where his immigration policy and Trump's diverge is that Trump used his policy as a punitive deterrent and a cudgel. Obama did not. That's a significant difference and its one I point out every time some says "Well Obama started it" or "Obama did it too".

There is no way Obama could've gotten away with what Trump has without the media lighting him up about it. They were friendly to him, but they absolutely would not have given him a pass if his policy led to what we're seeing now at the border.

where do you stand on the border issue mate. do you think the people that turn up at the border should be detained turned away or let into the US.

by Young Kaz Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:05 pm

McLewis wrote:Regarding Obama - He was not infallible. Far from it. He's largest successes were largely related to the economy, which is why he was re-elected over Romney. Beyond that, his foreign policy was perhaps his weakest spot and his administration weren't always above board with the media though it was a farcry from Trump's relationship with the media.

His policies relating to immigration were pretty moderate honestly. His administration tried to follow the law as close to the letter as possible, which resulted in lots of deportations naturally. Even then it was predictably messy. I think it gets lost in current context, but Obama took a lot of flack from his left on this issue and received virtually no credit from the right as well, which isn't surprising.

Where his immigration policy and Trump's diverge is that Trump used his policy as a punitive deterrent and a cudgel. Obama did not. That's a significant difference and its one I point out every time some says "Well Obama started it" or "Obama did it too".

There is no way Obama could've gotten away with what Trump has without the media lighting him up about it. They were friendly to him, but they absolutely would not have given him a pass if his policy led to what we're seeing now at the border.

Another thing Obama would not have got away with was letting his child and mother of his kids subsist on welfare while he played socialist with his buddies for over a decade in failed campaign after failed campaign.

Bernie: Any man who didn't even take care of his own kid couldn't lecture me about economic equality. Dude, you created a scenario of poverty for your own kid & that child's mother. A black man would have no credibility once this was known about him.
— And The Tweet Goes On (@lacadri34) February 7, 2020

by Unique Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:16 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
McLewis wrote:Regarding Obama - He was not infallible. Far from it. He's largest successes were largely related to the economy, which is why he was re-elected over Romney. Beyond that, his foreign policy was perhaps his weakest spot and his administration weren't always above board with the media though it was a farcry from Trump's relationship with the media.

His policies relating to immigration were pretty moderate honestly. His administration tried to follow the law as close to the letter as possible, which resulted in lots of deportations naturally. Even then it was predictably messy. I think it gets lost in current context, but Obama took a lot of flack from his left on this issue and received virtually no credit from the right as well, which isn't surprising.

Where his immigration policy and Trump's diverge is that Trump used his policy as a punitive deterrent and a cudgel. Obama did not. That's a significant difference and its one I point out every time some says "Well Obama started it" or "Obama did it too".

There is no way Obama could've gotten away with what Trump has without the media lighting him up about it. They were friendly to him, but they absolutely would not have given him a pass if his policy led to what we're seeing now at the border.

Another thing Obama would not have got away with was letting his child and mother of his kids subsist on welfare while he played socialist with his buddies for over a decade in failed campaign after failed campaign.

Bernie: Any man who didn't even take care of his own kid couldn't lecture me about economic equality. Dude, you created a scenario of poverty for your own kid & that child's mother. A black man would have no credibility once this was known about him.
— And The Tweet Goes On (@lacadri34) February 7, 2020

were his wife and kids not old enough to get a job to take care of themselves

by Young Kaz Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:22 pm

Unique wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:
McLewis wrote:Regarding Obama - He was not infallible. Far from it. He's largest successes were largely related to the economy, which is why he was re-elected over Romney. Beyond that, his foreign policy was perhaps his weakest spot and his administration weren't always above board with the media though it was a farcry from Trump's relationship with the media.

His policies relating to immigration were pretty moderate honestly. His administration tried to follow the law as close to the letter as possible, which resulted in lots of deportations naturally. Even then it was predictably messy. I think it gets lost in current context, but Obama took a lot of flack from his left on this issue and received virtually no credit from the right as well, which isn't surprising.

Where his immigration policy and Trump's diverge is that Trump used his policy as a punitive deterrent and a cudgel. Obama did not. That's a significant difference and its one I point out every time some says "Well Obama started it" or "Obama did it too".

There is no way Obama could've gotten away with what Trump has without the media lighting him up about it. They were friendly to him, but they absolutely would not have given him a pass if his policy led to what we're seeing now at the border.

Another thing Obama would not have got away with was letting his child and mother of his kids subsist on welfare while he played socialist with his buddies for over a decade in failed campaign after failed campaign.

Bernie: Any man who didn't even take care of his own kid couldn't lecture me about economic equality. Dude, you created a scenario of poverty for your own kid & that child's mother. A black man would have no credibility once this was known about him.
— And The Tweet Goes On (@lacadri34) February 7, 2020

were his wife and kids not old enough to get a job to take care of themselves

Levi sanders was a child during the 70's. Also childcare is expensive with two parents working, much less with one parent and a deadbeat who wont work because his socialist buddies would rather sit around and campaign.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:09 am

Freeza wrote:He isn’t giving anyone free stuff.

It’s paid for. By taxes.

problem is bernie/warren themselves call it "free" education, healthcare, childcare, college, etc as opposed to "public"

by Young Kaz Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:20 am

Biden just attacked Bernie on how much it costs.

Biden going in.

by Freeza Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:22 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Freeza wrote:He isn’t giving anyone free stuff.

It’s paid for. By taxes.
problem is bernie/warren themselves call it "free" education, healthcare, childcare, college, etc as opposed to "public"

Please point to where Bernie calls it free. It's free at the point of service as stated on his website. That's different.

Here are his issues: https://berniesanders.com/issues/
None of them says any of it is "free".

The main culprits of calling it free are people opposing it, as if the money isn't there to pay for it for everyone. Which it clearly is.

by McLewis Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:27 am

Unique wrote:
McLewis wrote:Regarding Obama - He was not infallible. Far from it. He's largest successes were largely related to the economy, which is why he was re-elected over Romney. Beyond that, his foreign policy was perhaps his weakest spot and his administration weren't always above board with the media though it was a farcry from Trump's relationship with the media.

His policies relating to immigration were pretty moderate honestly. His administration tried to follow the law as close to the letter as possible, which resulted in lots of deportations naturally. Even then it was predictably messy. I think it gets lost in current context, but Obama took a lot of flack from his left on this issue and received virtually no credit from the right as well, which isn't surprising.

Where his immigration policy and Trump's diverge is that Trump used his policy as a punitive deterrent and a cudgel. Obama did not. That's a significant difference and its one I point out every time some says "Well Obama started it" or "Obama did it too".

There is no way Obama could've gotten away with what Trump has without the media lighting him up about it. They were friendly to him, but they absolutely would not have given him a pass if his policy led to what we're seeing now at the border.

where do you stand on the border issue mate. do you think the people that turn up at the border should be detained turned away or let into the US.

Honestly, I don't feel well versed enough on the state of the US immigration system to give a full answer to this.

What I will say is this......we should not be keeping families in cages and concentration camps. We should not be forcing toddlers to go before judges for their own deportation when they have no clue what's going on. Period. We're better than that. There have to better ways of handling this situation than what the Trump admin is doing. There are a lot of intelligent people here. Some of these most intelligent people live here. We can figure this out. There is just no will do to so. The Democrats see it as a wedge issue to keep them in office. The Republicans use it as a means of making money off of cheap labor....and to also keep them in office. Neither side truly want to resolve this issue. It's too politically expedient not to.

Not a straightforward answer, but the best one I can give based on what I know. I try to avoid talking about stuff I'm not well educated on.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:57 am

Freeza wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Freeza wrote:He isn’t giving anyone free stuff.

It’s paid for. By taxes.
problem is bernie/warren themselves call it "free" education, healthcare, childcare, college, etc as opposed to "public"

Please point to where Bernie calls it free. It's free at the point of service as stated on his website. That's different.

Here are his issues: https://berniesanders.com/issues/
None of them says any of it is "free".

The main culprits of calling it free are people opposing it, as if the money isn't there to pay for it for everyone. Which it clearly is.

Found this in the 1st one I clicked on...

https://berniesanders.com/en/issues/free-college-cancel-debt/

Make Public Colleges, Universities, and Trade Schools Free for All

by Young Kaz Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:25 am

I really fucking hate them canonizing FDR.

by Young Kaz Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:26 am

I really fucking hate FDR.

by Hapless_Hans Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:37 am

Obama was a fantastic, inspiring candidate, much more disappointing president. (Still preferable to his opponents of course)

The truly great, truly awesome, achievement about Obama was done by the American people, to elect, and reelect him.

by Freeza Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:52 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Freeza wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote: problem is bernie/warren themselves call it "free" education, healthcare, childcare, college, etc as opposed to "public"

Please point to where Bernie calls it free. It's free at the point of service as stated on his website. That's different.

Here are his issues: https://berniesanders.com/issues/
None of them says any of it is "free".

The main culprits of calling it free are people opposing it, as if the money isn't there to pay for it for everyone. Which it clearly is.

Found this in the 1st one I clicked on...

https://berniesanders.com/en/issues/free-college-cancel-debt/

Make Public Colleges, Universities, and Trade Schools Free for All

I read that statement as it’s currently closed for people who can’t afford them. So the free is still tuition free. It’s also clear later in the same paragraph that the ‘free’ is about opportunity to attend college.

Again. It probably is true that it’s free, considering Americans currently spend more money on all these thing than needed if they were free for all to use. Instead of privatised systems looking to bleed students, parents and sick people for their money.

Everything said about things being free is just spin anyways. Calling it free is spin to suggest there’s no way to pay for it.

by Hapless_Hans Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:56 am

The museums in London are also free entrance.

Noone expects them to put a sign on the door saying "BEWARE it's not actually free but paid for by taxes".

OF COURSE that's the plan, and I have heard Sanders explain that repeatedly, even on fucking Fox News.

I think that is a such stupid objection to make, another bad faith argument really.

That's also by the way why the "oh I don't want the kids of millionaires to get free college" argument is so dumb. The millionaires will have their taxes raise to pay for it ffs.

by Young Kaz Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:27 pm

We have to get real about health care. The American people deserve the truth and an explanation of what Medicare for All will cost — not political games. #DemDebate pic.twitter.com/V6wZViZoXA
— Joe Biden (Text Join to 30330) (@JoeBiden) February 8, 2020

Bernie cant give solid answers on how much this will cost.

by Young Kaz Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:36 pm

While @JoeBiden was fighting to end gun violence and voting to hold gun manufacturers accountable, @BernieSanders was voting to protect them.

It’s clear — @JoeBiden’s record of taking on the gun lobby is stronger than any candidate on the #DemDebate stage. pic.twitter.com/JjNta3scoQ
— Team Joe (Text JOE to 30330) (@TeamJoe) February 8, 2020

Bernie opposed increased background checks for guns 5 times. Unacceptable.

by Young Kaz Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:37 pm

Five.

That’s how many times Senator Sanders voted against the Brady background check bill that has kept 3 million firearms out of dangerous hands.

I helped pass it.

We need a president who'll stand up to the @NRA — not stand with them against lifesaving gun safety measures.
— Joe Biden (Text Join to 30330) (@JoeBiden) February 8, 2020