Juve's Trash Midfield

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Post by C Ronaldo on Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:12 pm

we have attacking minded side backs
we have Bernardeschi + Pjanic
so there is enough attacking power

we cannot sacrifice all our defensive profiles to add more attacking qualities

if it still isn't good enough than start blaming guys like Mandzukic, Ronaldo, Bernardeschi, Pjanic, Sandro, Cancelo

you cant just keep adding strikers on the team





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Post by juvealbanian on Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:47 pm

From Vidal,Pirlo,Pogba,Marchisio. to Pjanic,Matuidi,Can,Khedira you can easily see that from our current midfield no one would start in our former mid , maybe not even Pjanic.

Now while I do agree about Matuidi running a lot and working hard how does he compare to prime Vidal? He's miles behind Vidal who used to score lots of goals and was technically much better than Matuidi.
Matuidi is really poor technically and is really mediocre going forward. I'd rather have someone like Kante doing the dirty work much better while not going forward much.

As for Ramsey coming...he's the type of midfielder that likes to go forward with the ball and he doesn't do much defensive work. Him coming would only help Pjanic not covering much ground while doing both defensive and offensive phases.

Again, Ramsey alone might not be enough. If we could bring some other top midfielder that would be great even though I think Can will do good.

Pjanic - Kanté - Ramsey would be dope.
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Post by C Ronaldo on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:00 pm

@juvealbanian wrote:From Vidal,Pirlo,Pogba,Marchisio. to Pjanic,Matuidi,Can,Khedira you can easily see that from our current midfield no one would start in our former mid , maybe not even Pjanic.

Now while I do agree about Matuidi running a lot and working hard how does he compare to prime Vidal? He's miles behind Vidal who used to score lots of goals and was technically much better than Matuidi.
Matuidi is really poor technically and is really mediocre going forward. I'd rather have someone like Kante doing the dirty work much better while not going forward much.

As for Ramsey coming...he's the type of midfielder that likes to go forward with the ball and he doesn't do much defensive work. Him coming would only help Pjanic not covering much ground while doing both defensive and offensive phases.

Again, Ramsey alone might not be enough. If we could bring some other top midfielder that would be great even though I think Can will do good.

Pjanic - Kanté - Ramsey would be dope.



that is a wrong comparision of midfields because on those days we was playing 3-5-2 formation and now 4-3-3 formation

if you put our players on the 3-5-2 formation here is what we have

---------------- C Ronaldo - Mandzukic --------------
Sandro -- Pjanic ---- Matuidi - Bernardeschi -- Cancelo
---------- Chiellini -- Bonnuci -- Emre Can ---------

I think it is wrong comparision

you can argue that
Pirlo > Pjanic,
Vidal > Matuidi

and that sure I agree however, now we have other players which are better than we used to have

Mandzukic > Lorente,
C Ronaldo > Tevez
Dybala, Costa > Giovinco, Giacherini
Bernardeschi > Marchisio
Sandro > Asamoah
Can > Barzagli

before we depended too much on Pirlo today we have Bernardeschi, Sandro, Cancelo, Can, and all of them can make assists or help to create chances

I think our midfield is much better than it used to be except that Pirlo and Vidal used to be special

Pogba was a really good player but he was sacrificed and spent that 100 m on Ronaldo which I would never regret it

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Post by FennecFox7 on Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:02 am

Juve's midfield as a unit doesn't create much from what I've seen.. I'm gonna go on a limb and say Pjanic has disappointed me. He has usually two box to box mids doing all the dirty work, yet he just doesn't stand out. And he's not good defensively.

In skill and technique he blows his partners out of the water, especially matuidi who is an incredibly average and overrated player.

I think Can has been very good as of recent and deserves a spot.

This is from all the games ive watched juve play this season as a neutral.
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Post by Warrior on Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:10 am

Pjanic plays in front of the defense in a sort of regista role, he isn't used in the best possible way and that's why you get the feeling that you don't see 100% of his talent.

I always thought Pjanic is a terrible tackler but his defensive positioning is correct. If he was a more free CM who can go AM (his best use) he would be directly involved in attacks... and this defensive awareness would be considered an extra skill

A problem at Juve currently is we don't have a specialist to do the "dirty work" in the midfield. You have to wait 20 meters so Chiellini-Bonucci do it. Matuidi & Can are all over the place and do the best they can by supporting everyone in their respective side, which is rarely both good enough at the same time imho. Bentancur has no role.
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Post by Andrew on Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:11 pm

I know it’s almost impossible for them to actually materialize mainly due to their huge economic cost yet I strongly believe the below line-ups would fix the majority of our issues

Szczesny
Koulibaly - Bonucci - Chiellini
Cuadrado - Ramsey - Can - Sergej - Bernardeschi
Lukaku - Ronaldo

Perin
Milenkovic - Romero - Rugani
Cancelo - Zaniolo - Bentancur - Matuidi - Spina
Mandzukic - Joao Felix

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Post by C Ronaldo on Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:15 pm

i think juventus has made a good effort to bring new super starts

if we are not happy we should sell some of them like Dybala, Bernardeschi, Pjanic, Costa

we sell these guys and we bring someone else who make us happy




















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Post by Warrior on Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:00 pm

Berna and Pjanic i wouldn't touch

The other 2 i could live with it, i have the feeling to have seen the best of Dybala at Juve in his first season. For many reasons he hasn't been able to take the next step. My gut feeling is the club will keep him one more year however.

Douglas is not good enough for long enough Laughing that's literally how i evaluate him
Great for 2 weeks, then shit for 6 weeks, then GOAT for a month, then invisible for 3 months... and lately he seems to have developed an attitude vs opponents/refs... after all it's just not sufficient, at this price we deserve better
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Post by C Ronaldo on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:41 pm

but my point is that our club has made a good effort to try luring a future stars however some of the new guys didnt really do as much as it was expected, as much as we paid for, imo you don't pay 50m unless you hope they do good

Idk why ppl bother so much for players that we get on free transfers like Can and never have a doubt about someone we paid 40M or even more, I think that guys like Dybala, Costa, Pjanic should be the ones to be criticized and maybe even sell them so we can make space for new players

Can and Matuidi has been on the most fans attention same like Hernanes used to be before but these guys shouldnt be they are temporary options for a missing profiles

]
Dybala is the first guy who should be sold I believe

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Post by Juventude on Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:12 pm

I don't think our midfield is necessarily bad, but the players aren't great. I think the real problem is that either Allegri/Marotta/Paratici/Agnelli/Nedved became obsessed with amassing attacking players. Then, Allegri kept trying to get as many of those attacking players on the field as possible.

There is nothing wrong with being an attack minded team, but it's pointless to have three forwards on the field if your midfield can't play the ball to them or maintain possession. If Juve wants to maintain so many players in attack, they need midfielders that can maintain possession and not be afraid to pass forward. The best midfielder they have to pass and hold possession is Pjanic and he plays so far back in front of the defense.

I'd prefer to go back to a three man defense, which will require at least one or two transfers. Rugani hasn't looked good and I question whether he's the future. Bonucci is only good next to a great player. Chiellini is great but getting old. Reinforcements are badly needed here.

If we fix the defense, I still think we need another midfielder that can play between Ramsey and Pjanic if Juve decides to continue with Pjanic. I could also be convinced to move on from Pjanic and then Juve can play with two midfielders that play in a more central role.
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Post by juve_gigi on Wed May 01, 2019 4:30 pm

We need a change not in midfield but also in defence.  Without Chiellini it showed Bonucci's true weaknesses.

It all comes down to money, so getting the best bang for your buck is what is key.

We need 2 midfielders and 2 centre backs for next year.  My two midfielders of choice would be Ndombele and Rabiot, Rabiot mostly because he is free so we can spend big money on the defence.  If Pjanic is sold that would bring enough funds to bring in a young Ndombele and leave extra money for the defence.

In defence I wouldn't be opposed to selling Bonucci and get whatever you can for him and bring in Romagnoli and De Ligt.  Big money for sure but with the sales of Pjanic and Bonucci the money is there.  I would also sell Sandro and get a cheaper young player to play backup to Spinazzola.  From what I have seen Spinazzola has more speed and creativity than Sandro at this point, so I would give him the starting position for next year.

In the forward group my dream in Felix and Chiesa.  Again with the sales of Costa, Dybala, Higuaín and Pjaca we should have the funds to go after those two.

Yes a revolution is needed and a major injection of youth as well if we are to compete next year and beyond.  Let's not waste this opportunity while we have the greatest player ever on our team.  With the sales I mentioned we have the funds to go after all these young studs and set up this team for the next decade.

Ronaldo   Kean   Chiesa

Rabiot   Ndombele   Ramsey

Spinazzola  Romagnoli  De Ligt  Cancelo

Szécsény

On the bench:  Felix, Bernardeschi, Mandzukic, Bentacur, Can, Matuidi, Cuadrado, Chiellini, Rugani, De Sciglio, Perin

That is two full teams almost.  We can rotate Romagnoli and Chiellini as it is guaranteed Chiellini will be hurt at some point.  Romagnoli and De Ligt is the future. And Kean and Mandzukic can also rotate.  Felix and Bernardeschi will be super subs to make this team as deep as possible.  This is the way I see it.

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Post by 80s_Stallone on Fri May 10, 2019 3:57 pm

My thoughts from my original post have changed quite a bit.

While I still think our MF is perfectly fine for the league it was woefully exposed in the CL and that is honestly the only thing that matters at this point.

We need more creativity in MF and we also need more steel in MF.

I have honestly been super impressed with Bernardeschi, so IMO he is untouchable. I don't think he should be dropped to the bench, esp for Chiesa (who is good but not better than Bernardeschi IMO).

I don't see us getting De Ligt as much as I would love to have him.
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Post by Unique on Fri May 10, 2019 8:07 pm

why do the juve fans have no love for pjanic. a few years ago i wanted liverpool to sign him badly.

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Post by Nishankly on Fri May 10, 2019 9:10 pm

Hows Can doing?
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Post by rincon on Sat May 11, 2019 12:02 am

@Unique wrote:why do the juve fans have no love for pjanic. a few years ago i wanted liverpool to sign him badly.

Who has no love for Pjanic??
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Post by Unique on Sat May 11, 2019 12:31 am

@rincon wrote:
@Unique wrote:why do the juve fans have no love for pjanic. a few years ago i wanted liverpool to sign him badly.

Who has no love for Pjanic??
ive seen a few juve fans have a moan about him lots of times.

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Post by Warrior on Sat May 11, 2019 9:46 am

Well he isn't perfect, maybe sometimes we criticize him

That said Pjanic is our best midfielder by damn far, the problem is how he is being used. Imagine if David Silva played in front of the defense, not to defend, but to create plays... it's a bit the same for Pjanic. So his influence is not as positive as it should. He's an AM, he is good at long passes of course, but i find him more useful at short passes, quick combinations, closer to the goal. That's precisely where his vision and creativity is needed.
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Post by Warrior on Sat May 11, 2019 10:31 am

@80s_Stallone wrote:My thoughts from my original post have changed quite a bit.

While I still think our MF is perfectly fine for the league it was woefully exposed in the CL and that is honestly the only thing that matters at this point.

We need more creativity in MF and we also need more steel in MF.

I have honestly been super impressed with Bernardeschi, so IMO he is untouchable.  I don't think he should be dropped to the bench, esp for Chiesa (who is good but not better than Bernardeschi IMO).

I don't see us getting De Ligt as much as I would love to have him.



Bernardeschi (and Cuadrado) can be good as mezzala, it's a solution that should have been tried

If Matuidi/Can were used in front of the defense, asked to do defensive tasks and running, we can have 2 creators involved in attacks. The current positioning is not good, i've seen Matuidi play as LW ffs, he cannot dribble, his energy is more useful closer to OUR goal. Same about Emre Can, supposedly he can play CB why not play him DM then ?

A guy who adds us more creativity and steel is Sergej Milinkovic-Savic, not a pure tackler but physical enough. Then our midfield will have a clear identity. We'd have a complete rotation, mostly creative but also able to run and do defensive effort.
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Post by Fuzail on Thu May 23, 2019 7:06 pm

Hey everyone how is it going, how do you guys feel about the Guardiola rumours?

I don't know if there is anyone here from back when I used to comment here. Devi? Juanito? Elm Baraja? Don't remember everyone.

Just wanted to say hi to fellow Juventus supporters

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Post by Warrior on Sat May 25, 2019 12:33 am

Sup man

Guardiola would be the best possible coach of course. His style of play could revamp Juve as it suits our squad and he isn't afraid to use all the talent at his disposal. So Can/Khedira = buh-bye

But it's not realistic imo, he'll stay at City. I think Gasperini/Sarri/Pochettino are realistic options that fits the description above: they would be more pragmatic than Max was with that set of players we have. Albeit they are not tactically acute as much as Max.
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Post by juvealbanian on Sat May 25, 2019 9:24 am

Guardiola ofc would be great but he'll stay at City for atleast one more year imo and he will ask for a really high wage. Pochettino or Sarri for me would be more realistic. I'd like to see Sarri at Juve. Sarri would definitely improve our team. We would finally have a midfield who can pass and control the ball properly.
For that we'll need at least 1 top midfielder Pogba,SMS,Eriksen you name it and then moving Pjanic behind the strikers in his old position. He will surely be way more effective there.
Hopefully we'll get rid of Khedira and maybe Matuidi. Those guys wont fit in a Sarri type of midfield.
Also if news about Higuain making a return with Sarri are true we should be happy. He did have a bad season switching two teams this year but he's still way better than Mandzukic who has clearly declined and needs to go.

____Ronaldo__Higuain__Dybala

_______Pjanic - MilinkovicSavic

________________Can

Sandro__Chiellini___Bonucci___Cancelo

_______________Szczesny

Basically we'll need to invest only on a top midfielder (SMS) and a solid CB (Manolas,Romagnoli,Umtiti etc) plus some backup players for cheap (1 more midfielder and a young CB (Romero).
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Post by Warrior on Sat May 25, 2019 1:36 pm

SMS is happening bro

Ramsey will be a starter at least for the beginning of next season. The salary is just too much. It depends on the manager who is the 3rd player. Some would put SMS on the bench and insert Can/Matuidi in a wannabe-DM role. Or try to land a quality DM as Ngolo Kanté.

Or we play Ramsey-Pjanic-Sergej together, it's a sacrifice of defense that some managers would make i think (Gasperini, Pep). With Manolas we could play 3-man def as before.


Of course all of this goes in the bin if we sell Pjanic. Saw rumors about that and i hope it's bs.
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Post by juvealbanian on Sat May 25, 2019 6:20 pm

Hopefully rumors about Pjanic and Dybala leaving are trash. They have been with us for years now and they are two of the best players we have in a technical standpoint. We know they are great and they would only thrive under someone like Sarri or Guardiola who appreciate such players.

I always had the feeling Allegri has both limited Pjanic and Dybala forcing them into unnatural positions and forcing them to do lots of defensive work.
In my view Pjanic must play further up. His combos with Dybala Ronaldo and Cancelo would be amazing and add someone like SMS to that it will be insane. I would only sacrifice Pjanic if someone younger like Eriksen or Isco came.
As for Dybala we all know he's world class. He completely lost motivation under Allegri. I don't understand why people say he can't play along CR7. He just needs to play as a SS which is his natural position. He's great at dribbling in small spaces and in shooting that's it.

I don't know how the new coach will accommodate Ramsey though. He's a really hardworking midfielder who is good enough technically unlike Matuidi.He struggles with injuries a lot though.

All in all we don't really need to invest that much. A bit more than 100m should be enough to secure a top CM and a solid CB.

Also we have lots of rumors about Icardi.
Who wouldn't want another clinical finisher in their team? Especially considering Icardi's age and experience. If we can cover most of his cost with sales of Mandzo and Higuain then ok if not I'd rather bring back Pipita and sell Mandzukic.
Icardi is just a very good finisher but nothing more than that. Probably an in-form Higuain would work better for us with only his age being a problem.
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Post by Kaladin on Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:06 am

@juvealbanian wrote:Guardiola ofc would be great but he'll stay at City for atleast one more year imo and he will ask for a really high wage. Pochettino or Sarri for me would be more realistic. I'd like to see Sarri at Juve. Sarri would definitely improve our team. We would finally have a midfield who can pass and control the ball properly.
For that we'll need at least 1 top midfielder Pogba,SMS,Eriksen you name it and then moving Pjanic behind the strikers in his old position. He will surely be way more effective there.
Hopefully we'll get rid of Khedira and maybe Matuidi. Those guys wont fit in a Sarri type of midfield.
Also if news about Higuain making a return with Sarri are true we should be happy. He did have a bad season switching two teams this year but he's still way better than Mandzukic who has clearly declined and needs to go.

____Ronaldo__Higuain__Dybala

_______Pjanic - MilinkovicSavic

________________Can

Sandro__Chiellini___Bonucci___Cancelo

_______________Szczesny

Basically we'll need to invest only on a top midfielder (SMS) and a solid CB (Manolas,Romagnoli,Umtiti etc) plus some backup players for cheap (1 more midfielder and a young CB (Romero).


Still trash

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Post by Fuzail on Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:11 pm

Now our midfield is stacked. I still have a dream that Khedira leaves and Marchisio comes back.
Pjanic
Ramsey
Rabiot
Bentancur
Matuidi
Marchisio

Pretty decent midfield. How the hell did Khedira stay and not Marchisio

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