Re: What is the cause of Guardiola's success?

by alexjanosik Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:03

Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.

The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

by izzy Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:05

alexjanosik wrote:
The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

Shocking.

by izzy Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:06

nichabr wrote:its annoying watching madrid fans get so jelous....barca are currently twice the team madrid are even if they do play with dirty tactics....

the only teams that should really be complaining and in my opinion deserve to complain are arsenal their the only ones who really got screwed with their goal scorer being sent off.....what do madrid fans have to complain about, their players coming out and playing a scruffy defensive failure and their coach making a fool of himself....

What is the cause of Guardiola's success? - Page 3 Cool_story_bro_lololol_165

by Lord Awesome Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:10

alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.

The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

Then why isn't everyone beating Barca.

According to you, if Defensive Football doesn't reqire skill then why doesn't everyone beat Barca with it?

It takes extreme discipline to keep a team like Barca (who are also disciplined Attackwise) at bay. Why is it that only Madrid (and Arsenal) defeated Barca at their max.

by kiranr Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:14

Defensive football surely requires great skill and discipline. But tell me, what tactics did Mourinho employ that makes him a great tactician? I am only talking about Madrid vs Barcelona matches last season. Even Rubin Kazan were able to hold Barcelona.

by izzy Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:16

kiranr wrote:Defensive football surely requires great skill and discipline. But tell me, what tactics did Mourinho employ that makes him a great tactician? I am only talking about Madrid vs Barcelona matches last season. Even Rubin Kazan were able to hold Barcelona.

I didn't know that results against Barca are all that mattered in football nowadays.

by kiranr Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:19

Either post your reply to my question or dont post at all. I am not trying to troll. This is an actual discussion going on!

by The Madrid One Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:20

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
The Madrid One wrote:if ovrebo would have penalized pique for the handball barca would have never won the cl,super cup, or cwc.

Same could be said for Mou at Porto and at Inter aswell he had decisions go his way( and iam not talking about Barca he had decisions go his way against Chelsea and in the group stage which led to them qualifying)

And probably every great coach in history, seriously stfu and stop bringing it up.

They were lucky we get it

dont get butthurt, if it wasnt for ovrebo and stark barca would have nothing, say what u may, i dont care, barca are cheats. bounce

by izzy Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:23

kiranr wrote:Either post your reply to my question or dont post at all. I am not trying to troll. This is an actual discussion going on!

Your question is phrased shockingly.

Basically, to be considered a great tactician you need to prove it against Barca?
What kind of question is that? How can you actually discuss that?

by alexjanosik Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:23

Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.

The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

Then why isn't everyone beating Barca.

According to you, if Defensive Football doesn't reqire skill then why doesn't everyone beat Barca with it?

It takes extreme discipline to keep a team like Barca (who are also disciplined Attackwise) at bay. Why is it that only Madrid (and Arsenal) defeated Barca at their max.

When did I say it doesnt require skill.I said it doesnt take a tactical genius to PTB.Notice the difference.
Plenty of teams troubled us by parking the bus.Hercules,Rubin(a lot),Chelsea,Stoke and a few more.
Does it mean that the Rubin manager is a tactical genius.
No it does not.Same way the Special Five isnt a tactical genius just because he parked the bus.
Its really mundane and any decent football fan worth his salt can do it.
My challenge still stands.Kindly explain how the Special Five is a tactical genius?
But obviously you cant.Thats why you had to resort to talking about skill.

by white_star Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:25

izzy26 wrote:
kiranr wrote:Defensive football surely requires great skill and discipline. But tell me, what tactics did Mourinho employ that makes him a great tactician? I am only talking about Madrid vs Barcelona matches last season. Even Rubin Kazan were able to hold Barcelona.

I didn't know that results against Barca are all that mattered in football nowadays.

Nope def not but when you have to beat them in the league to win it or the cl to advance the it does matter! Please don't use the butthurt Pepe sending off excuse o heard it already.

by alexjanosik Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:27

Oh and Stoke didnt beat us at our max.
At our best I truly believe that only Valencia and Villareal have troubled us.

by the xcx Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:28

alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.

The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

Then why isn't everyone beating Barca.

According to you, if Defensive Football doesn't reqire skill then why doesn't everyone beat Barca with it?

It takes extreme discipline to keep a team like Barca (who are also disciplined Attackwise) at bay. Why is it that only Madrid (and Arsenal) defeated Barca at their max.

When did I say it doesnt require skill.I said it doesnt take a tactical genius to PTB.Notice the difference.
Plenty of teams troubled us by parking the bus.Hercules,Rubin(a lot),Chelsea,Stoke and a few more.
Does it mean that the Rubin manager is a tactical genius.
No it does not.Same way the Special Five isnt a tactical genius just because he parked the bus.
Its really mundane and any decent football fan worth his salt can do it.
My challenge still stands.Kindly explain how the Special Five is a tactical genius?
But obviously you cant.Thats why you had to resort to talking about skill.

So much idiocy. *Must...not...laugh*

by kiranr Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:29

izzy26 wrote:
kiranr wrote:Either post your reply to my question or dont post at all. I am not trying to troll. This is an actual discussion going on!

Your question is phrased shockingly.

Basically, to be considered a great tactician you need to prove it against Barca?
What kind of question is that? How can you actually discuss that?

Alright. Let that one go. Now tell me why is Mourinho considered so great tactically? The only reasons i have heard is that he won with 3 teams, namely Porto, Chelsea and Inter. If that is the logic, why isn't someone like Ferguson considered tactically brilliant?

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:30

The xcx wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.

The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

Then why isn't everyone beating Barca.

According to you, if Defensive Football doesn't reqire skill then why doesn't everyone beat Barca with it?

It takes extreme discipline to keep a team like Barca (who are also disciplined Attackwise) at bay. Why is it that only Madrid (and Arsenal) defeated Barca at their max.

When did I say it doesnt require skill.I said it doesnt take a tactical genius to PTB.Notice the difference.
Plenty of teams troubled us by parking the bus.Hercules,Rubin(a lot),Chelsea,Stoke and a few more.
Does it mean that the Rubin manager is a tactical genius.
No it does not.Same way the Special Five isnt a tactical genius just because he parked the bus.
Its really mundane and any decent football fan worth his salt can do it.
My challenge still stands.Kindly explain how the Special Five is a tactical genius?
But obviously you cant.Thats why you had to resort to talking about skill.
So much idiocy. *Must...not...laugh*

If he's such an idiot why cant you back up your claim that Mourinho is a tactical genius with actual facts ?

Oh that's right you cant because he is'nt.

by izzy Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:30

white_star wrote:Nope def not but when you have to beat them in the league to win it or the cl to advance the it does matter! Please don't use the butthurt Pepe sending off excuse o heard it already.

Where did I talk about Pepe? Suspect

So what your telling me is that, for Mourinho to be a great tactian, he has to prove himself against Barca because they play each other twice in the league and might meet in the CL?

Ok, whatever. Obviously Mourinho did not have a life of even a career before he joined Madrid.
Done posting in this thread.

by alexjanosik Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:31

The xcx wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.

The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

Then why isn't everyone beating Barca.

According to you, if Defensive Football doesn't reqire skill then why doesn't everyone beat Barca with it?

It takes extreme discipline to keep a team like Barca (who are also disciplined Attackwise) at bay. Why is it that only Madrid (and Arsenal) defeated Barca at their max.

When did I say it doesnt require skill.I said it doesnt take a tactical genius to PTB.Notice the difference.
Plenty of teams troubled us by parking the bus.Hercules,Rubin(a lot),Chelsea,Stoke and a few more.
Does it mean that the Rubin manager is a tactical genius.
No it does not.Same way the Special Five isnt a tactical genius just because he parked the bus.
Its really mundane and any decent football fan worth his salt can do it.
My challenge still stands.Kindly explain how the Special Five is a tactical genius?
But obviously you cant.Thats why you had to resort to talking about skill.
So much idiocy. *Must...not...laugh*

Son,either you back up the claims made by fellow Stoke fans or you just bow down to the genius that is Pep The God Guardiola.

by the xcx Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:33

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
The xcx wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.

The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

Then why isn't everyone beating Barca.

According to you, if Defensive Football doesn't reqire skill then why doesn't everyone beat Barca with it?

It takes extreme discipline to keep a team like Barca (who are also disciplined Attackwise) at bay. Why is it that only Madrid (and Arsenal) defeated Barca at their max.

When did I say it doesnt require skill.I said it doesnt take a tactical genius to PTB.Notice the difference.
Plenty of teams troubled us by parking the bus.Hercules,Rubin(a lot),Chelsea,Stoke and a few more.
Does it mean that the Rubin manager is a tactical genius.
No it does not.Same way the Special Five isnt a tactical genius just because he parked the bus.
Its really mundane and any decent football fan worth his salt can do it.
My challenge still stands.Kindly explain how the Special Five is a tactical genius?
But obviously you cant.Thats why you had to resort to talking about skill.
So much idiocy. *Must...not...laugh*

If he's such an idiot why cant you back up your claim that Mourinho is a tactical genius with actual facts ?

Oh that's right you cant because he is'nt.

duhhhh, It dosent take a tactical genius to win you games nor trophies. Ambiton, hardworking, determined, discipline and right choiches are part of it.

by white_star Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:33

izzy26 wrote:
white_star wrote:Nope def not but when you have to beat them in the league to win it or the cl to advance the it does matter! Please don't use the butthurt Pepe sending off excuse o heard it already.

Where did I talk about Pepe?
So what your telling me is that, for Mourinho to be a great tactian, he has to prove himself against Barca because they play each other twice in the league and might meet in the CL?

Ok, whatever. Obviously Mourinho did not have a life of even a career before he joined Madrid.
Done posting in this thread.

No I did not say that I was just stating that it is a big deal for madero to beat barca when they are in their way of winning it's just common sense!

by izzy Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:34

kiranr wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
kiranr wrote:Either post your reply to my question or dont post at all. I am not trying to troll. This is an actual discussion going on!

Your question is phrased shockingly.

Basically, to be considered a great tactician you need to prove it against Barca?
What kind of question is that? How can you actually discuss that?

Alright. Let that one go. Now tell me why is Mourinho considered so great tactically? The only reasons i have heard is that he won with 3 teams, namely Porto, Chelsea and Inter. If that is the logic, why isn't someone like Ferguson considered tactically brilliant?

This is my last post.
Who said SAF isn't great tactically?

For me he is more of a motivator and a perfectionist. The players know exactly what we wants when they step onto the pitch and in tranning and he won't stop until he wins as much as he wants. The tactical side of SAF gets overlooked because of his longevity at United and his winning mentality.

by jibers Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:36

Some people on this forum are ridiculous, without Guardiola, where was Barcelona? Guardiola is the most important part of this Barcelona team by a mile. The guy has brought about a revolution. People keep saying that without the squad blah blah blah. Pique was on the bench the season before the treble, Pedro was about to be sold by Barca, Messi was always getting injured, iniesta was very inconsistent. Henry was poor in the previous season. People keep saying that it's down to xavi and iniesta but I disagree strongly. As a tactical coach, I believe Guardiola is the best in the world at the moment. The guy's tactics and coaching, made a player like pique, who could not start the season before 2009, be able to become one of the best CB in the world. Guardiola coaches each player on how to work withing Barcelona's particular system, he deosn't coach them on shooting and dribbling, hence there is emphasis on short passing and movement. Guardiola is the one that tells xavi and iniesta what to do. Messi is the only X factor in that team as you cannot coach to dribble like that. The pressing and discipline he added to that team is unbelievable.

How people can say Mourinho is a great coach is beyond me. I am a big fan of his but the guy is always handed a war chest to build his squad, yet people say that anyone can win with those players Guardiola has, why didnt rijkaard do it for 2 seasons then? Then the excuses will pour out. To discredit Guardiola RM fans will say Cruyff deserves all the credit and that Barcelona has always played that way blah de blah de blah. Barcelona since cruyff have always moved the ball on the ground but Guardiola has made sure that possession is a must of the team, whereas before possession was a result of their football, Pep has made sure that they get results as a...err...result of the possession. You know hwat I mean. Guardiolas tactics have been so influencial that Spain used it in a more rigid way in the WC 2010. The man is a silent genius.

When Barcelona beat RM 5-0 it was not due to the fact that Barcelona outplayed them but it was Mou that got the tactics wrong, but when Mou beat Barcelona he outplayed them and he became a genius. People keep going on about barcelonas cycle, it will end when Guardiola leves.

by alexjanosik Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:37

Allow me to break down the Special Five Tactical Playbook for you my dear Stoke fans.
Against a big team park the bus and hope for a lucky goal on the counter.
If it works get Perez and his propaganda buffoons to shove it down every Stoke fans throat that the Special Five is a tactical genius.
If it doesnt work and you go down put 4 forwards on the park and ask Adebayor to take players heads off.
When all else fails cry a river.

by jibers Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:41

alexjanosik wrote:Allow me to break down the Special Five Tactical Playbook for you my dear Stoke fans.
Against a big team park the bus and hope for a lucky goal on the counter.
If it works get Perez and his propaganda buffoons to shove it down every Stoke fans throat that the Special Five is a tactical genius.
If it doesnt work and you go down put 4 forwards on the park and ask Adebayor to take players heads off.
When all else fails cry a river.

Is this really you alex? Why the hostility bro? What did you think of my post?

by kiranr Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:41

@ Izzy

You can say the same thing about Pep. The players know exactly what Pep wants when they step onto the pitch.

I think everyone underrates Pep's tactical ability because he has only spent 3 years as a top flight manager.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:41

The xcx wrote:
Immaculate_Mole wrote:
The xcx wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
Lord Hispano wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Mourinho is an average tactician.A one trick pony.
Pep schooled Mourinho at the Bernabeau by playing a waiting game and the supposed tactician genius was stumped.
Got his ass handed back to him.
Pep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Special Five as a tactician.

When will Stoke fans realize that parking the bus doesnt take a tactical genius to pull off.Hell even the Stoke fans on here can do it.

Barca won that game through a mistake from the ref. More the refs fault than Pep's.

The closet Stoke fan.
Jog it on son.
The last time this happened I asked Stoke fans to kindly explain why the Special Five was so great tactically.And none could explain because he isnt.He is average tactically.Like I said any dumbo can park the bus.Hell even you can.
Doesnt mean you are Cruyff or Sacchi or Michels or Guardiola.

Then why isn't everyone beating Barca.

According to you, if Defensive Football doesn't reqire skill then why doesn't everyone beat Barca with it?

It takes extreme discipline to keep a team like Barca (who are also disciplined Attackwise) at bay. Why is it that only Madrid (and Arsenal) defeated Barca at their max.

When did I say it doesnt require skill.I said it doesnt take a tactical genius to PTB.Notice the difference.
Plenty of teams troubled us by parking the bus.Hercules,Rubin(a lot),Chelsea,Stoke and a few more.
Does it mean that the Rubin manager is a tactical genius.
No it does not.Same way the Special Five isnt a tactical genius just because he parked the bus.
Its really mundane and any decent football fan worth his salt can do it.
My challenge still stands.Kindly explain how the Special Five is a tactical genius?
But obviously you cant.Thats why you had to resort to talking about skill.
So much idiocy. *Must...not...laugh*

If he's such an idiot why cant you back up your claim that Mourinho is a tactical genius with actual facts ?

Oh that's right you cant because he is'nt.
duhhhh, It dosent take a tactical genius to win you games nor trophies. Ambiton, hardworking, determined, discipline and right choiches are part of it.

Of course but what Alex was saying is what makes Mourinho a tactical genius and you called him an idiot for when Mourinho is not a tactical genius.

Juanmo Lillo is more of a tactical genius as he invented the 4-2-3-1, does'nt make him better mind but calling Alex an idiot because he feels Mourinho is'nt a tactical genius without any facts to back up your argument is a bit childish imo.

Also no one is saying Mourinho is'nt a great coach his trophys show hes a fantastic coach but tactical genius imo he is not.

by izzy Thu 04 Aug 2011, 20:42

white_star wrote:No I did not say that I was just stating that it is a big deal for madero to beat barca when they are in their way of winning it's just common sense!

Why am I still posting in this thread?

The word 'IF' comes to mind.
Let's us it. Say Madrid won the League and CL and drew with Barca in both league games and they didn't meet each other in the CL, does that mean Mou has not proven himself as he did not beat Barca, but beat them to Two trophies Barca were in contention of winning?
You will be judge on your trophies as a manager in a high-profile job, silverware is what comes first, how it was achieved comes second.
It's a poor way to judge managers but what can you do? People like David Moyes will constantly get overlooked for the great jobs they are doing because of a lack of silverware or the profile of the club they are at.

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