'The Messiah' - Lionel Messi

No top young players? Definitely have to disagree, we have talented players coming up in almost every defensive position (bar left-back, a problem since Sorin really). Not saying they'll be ready in a years' time but there are talents coming up.

Still don't see us winning on 2014, Spain is too dominant (only scenario I see them losing is a somewhat probably Iniesta injury), and we'll play every game with the added pressure from the Brazilian public, but a final would be enough to cement Messi as a goat.

Can you name these?

Rico Fernández is the best of the bunch and, at his best reminds me of Jamie Carragher.
Campagnaro, old and slow.
Coloccini, old and slow.
Pelado Rodríguez is old and never performed well for Albiceleste anyway.
Garay...I actually don't rate him at all. He loses focus too often and chokes under pressure.
Mascherano...I hope he's not played at CB but I leave that for Barcelona fans to judge.
And don't even get me started on that chino Rojo.

danyjr wrote:Diego won one World Cup in 1986.

Unfortunately I have to agree, we won't win 2014.

We have the best attackers in the world, in fact too many, some of which whom are unheard of in Europe.
We have a very acceptable midfield.
Our defence however is nowhere near what a World Cup winning team should look like. To add insult to injury, we have no top young players coming from the ranks and our defence is old and by 2014 even older.

Simply put, we have too many players in the some positions and no players in the other positions.

#SaveUsZaba

It's okay bud Zanetti is getting younger

danyjr wrote:Can you name these?

Rico Fernández is the best of the bunch and, at his best reminds me of Jamie Carragher.
Campagnaro, old and slow.
Coloccini, old and slow.
Pelado Rodríguez is old and never performed well for Albiceleste anyway.
Garay...I actually don't rate him at all. He loses focus too often and chokes under pressure.
Mascherano...I hope he's not played at CB but I leave that for Barcelona fans to judge.
And don't even get me started on that chino Rojo.

Only Fede Fernandez is young out of those, and he's not good enough to start constantly for Napoli, let alone the seleccion. When I talked about young talents I was refering to the likes of Guille Burdisso, Pezzella, and Lisandro Lopez. Chances are one of those 3 will be very good up in the future.

The Franchise wrote:
I disagree JD. Not me, but if he won a WC, someone will ask for 2 like Maradona or better yet 3 like Pele (ignoring the fact he only really contributed heavily in 2).

Perhaps dani but I think that will mainly be people who are so anti Messi that they have to invent something from somewhere just to put him down. I seriously doubt the who's who of football will say anything like that. As CB said all "sensible" arguments will have been dispensed with.

free_cat wrote:Maradona won one world cup, no?

Anyway, Messi won't win world cup 2014, Argentina isn't good enough.

cat, can we be that sure? There are hardly any truly strong national teams around (with Spain perhaps the only exception) which gives everyone a chance. As far as Spain is concerned how much longer can they possibly continue winning? WC 2014 is in South America. Argentina is improving and had a really good 2012. Messi knows it will be his date with destiny. I say we shouldn't rule it out like that.

danyjr wrote:
Our defence however is nowhere near what a World Cup winning team should look like. To add insult to injury, we have no top young players coming from the ranks and our defence is old and by 2014 even older.

People said something similar about the Dutch in WC 2010 but they still reached the final. I say we should not give up hope. If we don't have much of a defense then let's use a strong defensive midfield to compensate for that.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Still don't see us winning on 2014, Spain is too dominant (only scenario I see them losing is a somewhat probably Iniesta injury)

alfred, I really like your comment but one can never guarantee who will be champion at a world cup. Besides Xavi growing older can go against Spain apart from the law of averages catching up with them. Argentina may not be the top favorite for WC 2014 but will surely be seen as one of the strong contenders.

I think anything can happen honestly. I wouldnt rule out Argentina winning.

I dont think they will, but I think they have a shot at it.

The defence is bad, but just like JD pointed out so was Holland's.

I think a final is not impossible, but I think it would be likelier with Simeone in 2018. I just can't imagine what Spain would do to our defense, they would easily score 5 against us right now with the spaces that are not covered by our full backs (which is not their fault really, it's an aspect the entire team must improve on). But if we can avoid Spain until the final, or count on a 2010 Paraguay-like-team to kick them out, then I'd feel much better about our chances.

All you need is a bit of luck and with Messi on your side and his performance for Argentina in 2012 along with Di Maria and help of Aguero Higgy and Mascherano they have a good chance making it to Semi's / Finals and a small but good chance on maybe winning it.
Spain could just have a bad day and lose on a knockout stage, happens to everyone and Messi has proven to us he only gets better in 1 year and a half he may be passed god status and might give you guys to glory, keep positive is all I can say.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Only Fede Fernandez is young out of those, and he's not good enough to start constantly for Napoli, let alone the seleccion. When I talked about young talents I was refering to the likes of Guille Burdisso, Pezzella, and Lisandro Lopez. Chances are one of those 3 will be very good up in the future.

The truth is none of these CBs have the qualities of a modern CB. Most Argentine teams don't play from the back unlike a lot of teams in Europe are starting to do. All these guys you mentioned have the capacity of being good defensive CBs in the future (i.e. strong, good tacklers and good on air) but nothing more than that.

Lisandro is a big game flop, he got raped against All Boys and Vélez.
Guillermo is okay but I can hardly see him reach his brother's achievements and that's not to say Nicolás was a top CB.
Haven't seen Pezzella play much.

I do fear for Argentina's football. For all the Messis and Kuns and Pipitas, we haven't produced a top midfielder or fullback for so long. Our clubs are corrupt. Boca's situation is even more sad, I have kinda accepted our demise to be honest and had it not been for Riquelme the past few years we'd been in shit ages ago. Kinda feel sorry for Bianchi, he's going to ruin his reputation as a legend.

The lack of a ball-playing CB is not really a problem with someone like Simeone as the coach, then again I'm sure Sabella would prefer to play counter-attacking rather than the way we do now but it seems that the players don't, and they're getting the results so far.

About Bianchi: well at least you're getting a River fan as your Riquelme replacement

Love those miniature team trophies

He has more personal trophies then most small teams have

Dat assist for Fab Another typical Messi assist

The Sanchez wrote:Dat assist for Fab Another typical Messi assist

As they say that pass alone was worth the price of the ticket.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I think a final is not impossible, but I think it would be likelier with Simeone in 2018.

alfred, by 2018 Messi may be past his absolute best, Argentina may have lost faith in him and the dream may have died. The date with destiny is in 2014 only I feel. Agree that Simeone should be made the coach after 2014. He could be called coach of the season right now given the wonders he has done with Atletico.

He would be 30 or 31 in 2018, right? No doubt he'll probably still be past his best, but if he is 70% of what he is now he would still be a deadly player.

Simeone is the best coach of 2012 no doubt, it's an absolute joke he didn't make the 10 man shortlist for the FIFA award. Seriously makes you wonder who votes on that.

Simply put, Ballon d'or will not be given to the most influential anymore, but to the most eye-catching. Kind of like a football celebrity award that goes to players with flair who can score loads of goals, or coaches with Hollywood titles such as Champions League. In fact with the change in the format and voting system, I doubt if we will see a defender like Cannavaro or Sammer win the award again.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:He would be 30 or 31 in 2018, right? No doubt he'll probably still be past his best, but if he is 70% of what he is now he would still be a deadly player.

Of course he should still be a deadly player. What I am saying is that by then Argentina may have lost faith in him and given the speed with which talent is churned out there a new hero may have been found for building the team around.

danyjr wrote:Simply put, Ballon d'or will not be given to the most influential anymore, but to the most eye-catching. Kind of like a football celebrity award that goes to players with flair who can score loads of goals, or coaches with Hollywood titles such as Champions League. In fact with the change in the format and voting system, I doubt if we will see a defender like Cannavaro or Sammer win the award again.

I say Cannavaro would have still won because he won both Ballon D'or and Fifa Player Of The Year in 2006. Of course he didn't have the Messi and/or C.Ronaldo type competition. Ronaldinho was hopeless in the world cup and below par in the second half of the season. Henry had a decent season losing both UCL andf world cup finals but not an extraordinary one.

Sammer would perhaps not have won since the Fifa award went to the original Ronaldo in 1996.

Initially I had liked the idea of combining into one award but as time has gone on it seems like leaving the Ballon D'or as it used to be would have been better.

Good a Cannavero never wins again, shouldn't of won in the first place.

Not that I like the way the award is done now mind.

Donuts wrote:In the 19 league games we have already played, Messi has scored two goals in 12 of those games (and 1 hat trick).
The only games he failed to scored a goal was Sevilla + Granada + Celta de Vigo + Valencia
And games he scored only 1 goal was against Real Valladolid, Espaynyol and Malaga (counting only La Liga games not Copa de Rey)
He is currently well on his way of equaling Ronaldo's scoring 1 goal against each La Liga team should he score against these teams on the return match, if anything Messi has the chance to achieve scoring two goals against each team.

This concludes the first half of La Liga now for the return matches.
Also scoring against Real Sciedad tonight increases his tally on the return matches to three goals vs them.