Messi vs Zidane

PedroBR wrote:LOL
Zidane was better than Messi

why?what did Zidane do & messi can't do?

simple question lol

xabi wrote:drop it

zidane the legend>lionel bieber

/thread

again can u give us some of your smartness... & care to explain why zidane is better?

@ 23 Messi has lead his team to win 2 CL & played important role in 3rd Cl (200^)

he already won 5 leagues.. a treble (sixtuple) etc.. where he was the most important player why @ his team..

So all these trophies are not enough?

===================

Now lets go to the silly argument that we always hear from u haters..

What did Messi do with Argentina?

1- We all should realise that Messi will turn 24 next week.. so he has 2 WC & more COps to play... & the likes of Mardona, Zidane etc.. didn't won WC until 26/27!!
so he needs time.. he didn't even peak!

2- Argentina did win Olympic Games in 2008 & WC U-20 in 2005

3- WC 2010:

i'm sure that most of haters, didn't watch argentina games OR are just denying the fact that Messi was gd.. he was not Great yes .. for alot of reason , but he was gd enough to be a Top 10 player @ WC 2010! "playing a different role than @ Barca"

Whyy?
-With a Coach like Mardona what do u expect from him?
when he plays in the midfield what do u expect from him? GOALS?
his role was creating chances (playmakig, & was gd @ it, but he is better as CF ( false 9), where he plays both roles ( CF & playmaker where he drops in the midfield in buildup)

Ho take a look @ Argentina goals in the WC..3/4 were created by Messi.. he did his job, but this job that was given to him is not the reason why he is the Best in the World ( his role was limited, he can do more & play a bigger role like @ Barca.. but maradona's stupid tactics made messi look useless agianst Germany, add to that POOR defenders!!)

- DEFENCE : which was weakkk... argentina already have an average defence.. Maradona didn't call the best players "defenders" in 2010 Zanetti , Cambiasso ( whom i'm sure would have made the difference against Germany, all geramany goals were stupid mistakes from aregntinian defence.. what should Messi do ? So is Mess's Role to DEFEND???)

I'm Sure If maradona @ his peak played in that match with such defence.. we would have seen same score "argentina losing against a well organised, great counterattacking team called germany"..

@ yuri u said it, Zidane had great defence behind him & gd forwards onfront of him in WC 1998 & Great ones in euro 2000.. HE DIDN"T DO IT ALONE... While Messi had veryy weak defence...

With such defence & that Coach Argentina had... even players like mardona,cruyff, pele etc.. no one would have won with that team anything EVER!!


Messi @ 23 done everything @ club level.. his next targets are Copa 2011 & WC 2014/2018 & continue winning with BARCELONA:)

Lionel Messi wrote:You don't think Champions League finals and knockouts aren't high pressure? Just because he didn't score while Pepe was on the pitch doesn't mean he was asleep. Messi is a leader by example but I would not call him a wonder kid, he's a man and the best football player in the world right now.

Games are not high pressure because of the stage they are at in a knockout tournament, they are high pressure based on the quality of the opponent, his exploitation of your weaknesses, how big a role you must partake and the fans/club actions based on the outcome. I dont understand this concept of leader by example, its what some call the guy that puts in the hardest work but isnt actually the leader of the group as he pushes others through his actions. For messi I honestly dont see that, he is more talented than the rest nothing more. He cant teach them that. He isnt the hardest worker, he doesnt complain to referees but his team seem to do it the most when it involves him.

Khaledbarca wrote:

xabi wrote:drop it

zidane the legend>lionel bieber

/thread

again can u give us some of your smartness... & care to explain why zidane is better?

@ 23 Messi has lead his team to win 2 CL & played important role in 3rd Cl (200^)

he already won 5 leagues.. a trbele (sixtuple) etc.. where he was the most important reason why his team win these trophies..

So all these trophies are not enough?

===================

Now lets go to the silly argument that we always hear from u haters..

What did Messi do with Argentina..

1- We all should realise that Messi will turn 24 next week.. so he has 2 WC & more COps to play... & the likes os Mardona, Zidane etc.. didn't won WC until 26/27!!
so he needs time..

2- Argentina did win Olympic Games in 2008 & WC U-20 in 2005

3- WC 2010:

i'm sure that most of haters, didn't watch argentina games OR are just denying that Messi was gd.. he was not Great like @ Barca.. for alot of reason , but he was gd enough to be a Top 10 player @ WC 20102!

Whyy?
-With a Coach like Mardona what do u expect from him?
when he plays in the midfield what do u expect from him? GOALS?
his role was to play make( he is gd @ it, but he is better as CF ( false 9), where he plays both roles ( CF & playmaker where he drops in the midfield in buildup)

Go watch Aregntina goals in the WC..3/4 were created by Messi.. he did his job, but this job that was give to him is not the reason why he is the Best in the World ( his role was limited w.r.t what he can do...)

- DEFENCE : which was weakkk... argentina already don't have an average defence.. Mardona didn't call the best players in 2010 Zanetti , Cambiasso ( whom i'm sure would have made the difference against Germany, all geramany goals were stupid mistakes from aregntinian defence.. what should Messi do ? So is Mess's Role to DEFEND???)

I'm Sure If maradona @ his peak played in that match with such defence.. we would have seen same score..

@ yuri u said it Zidane had great defence behind him & gd forwards onfront of him in WC 1998 & Great ones in euro 2000.. he didn't do it alone..

With the defence & that Coach Argentina had.. mardona,cruyff, pele etc.. no one would have won !!!


Messi @ 23 done everything @ club level.. his next targets are Copa 2011 & WC 2014/2018!

Wow, you actually bothered to write this bullcrap.

Zidane has a legacy that cannot be denied nor can it be misconstrued like what is taking place here. You may consider (insert player) to be better than him and by all means, it's your opinion on the matter but that comparing through youtube videos made by an obvious bias fan is simply ridiculous.

The man is one of the greatest players of our generation and that's a simple fact. And for the life of anything sane, Messi really is not at fault with Argentina's shortcomings as a football side and in the same light, he is not the saviour nor the be all and end all. Like Barcelona, like any other successful side, it takes a team effort to win any trophy and although Messi fans would feel he can do it all, he certainly cannot.

Also, blaming Maradona is like putting a plaster over a gun shot wound.

The xcx wrote:

Khaledbarca wrote:

xabi wrote:drop it

zidane the legend>lionel bieber

/thread

again can u give us some of your smartness... & care to explain why zidane is better?

@ 23 Messi has lead his team to win 2 CL & played important role in 3rd Cl (200^)

he already won 5 leagues.. a trbele (sixtuple) etc.. where he was the most important reason why his team win these trophies..

So all these trophies are not enough?

===================

Now lets go to the silly argument that we always hear from u haters..

What did Messi do with Argentina..

1- We all should realise that Messi will turn 24 next week.. so he has 2 WC & more COps to play... & the likes os Mardona, Zidane etc.. didn't won WC until 26/27!!
so he needs time..

2- Argentina did win Olympic Games in 2008 & WC U-20 in 2005

3- WC 2010:

i'm sure that most of haters, didn't watch argentina games OR are just denying that Messi was gd.. he was not Great like @ Barca.. for alot of reason , but he was gd enough to be a Top 10 player @ WC 20102!

Whyy?
-With a Coach like Mardona what do u expect from him?
when he plays in the midfield what do u expect from him? GOALS?
his role was to play make( he is gd @ it, but he is better as CF ( false 9), where he plays both roles ( CF & playmaker where he drops in the midfield in buildup)

Go watch Aregntina goals in the WC..3/4 were created by Messi.. he did his job, but this job that was give to him is not the reason why he is the Best in the World ( his role was limited w.r.t what he can do...)

- DEFENCE : which was weakkk... argentina already don't have an average defence.. Mardona didn't call the best players in 2010 Zanetti , Cambiasso ( whom i'm sure would have made the difference against Germany, all geramany goals were stupid mistakes from aregntinian defence.. what should Messi do ? So is Mess's Role to DEFEND???)

I'm Sure If maradona @ his peak played in that match with such defence.. we would have seen same score..

@ yuri u said it Zidane had great defence behind him & gd forwards onfront of him in WC 1998 & Great ones in euro 2000.. he didn't do it alone..

With the defence & that Coach Argentina had.. mardona,cruyff, pele etc.. no one would have won !!!


Messi @ 23 done everything @ club level.. his next targets are Copa 2011 & WC 2014/2018!

Wow, you actually bothered to write this bullcrap.

No one is telling you to read it, have some respect ffs, he wrote out a long reply and you go and bash it? Your replys are never more than one sentence and no one ever bashes what you say but thats probably because its mostly irrelevant.

Everyone seems to forget that Messi has always replicated his Barcelona form with Argentina except during the 2010 World Cup, every other time he has played with them he has been brilliant.

Different players, but Messi is better. Messi is 23 and in my eyes, the greatest footballer I've seen. Messi is also very football-focused so I don't believe he will lose it to crack/maradona-scandal.

Zidane is great, but that has to be the stupidest video ever I've seen. Seriously, it only showed like 1% of what Zizou has done. I can come up with better in my own head.

only thing that zidane is better is his leadership abilities. what zidane did messi can do 2 times faster.

check some messi goals, defenders even can not find a time to wake up. zidane can not do it for sure. have you ever seen zidane takes the ball from center and scores a goal going all the way by himself without any help? have you ever seen zidane stealing the ball from opposite players and creates danger?

zidane only can pass the ball, it can be only thing that he was dangerous at. he was not so dangerous as messi. believe me madrid fans. as a show off he is better for sure, but at efficency messi 2 times better. you will realise it later

Lionel Messi wrote:

xabi wrote:zizou was a champ, lead his france with pride through the worldcups and carried it on his shoulders. and lionel bieber? what I heard he did not even score in a world cup. this shouldnt even be up for debate..

He has scored in a world cup, don't talk outcha ass. Zidane carried France on his shoulders? LOL France had the likes Henry Trezeguet Makelele Thuram Blanc Pires and Barthez in 98 and Ribery Henry Trezeguet Makelele Vieira and Malouda, they were both team efforts

lol and Messi had Aguero, Tevez, Diego Milito, Samuel, Pastore, Mascherano.

ali8775 wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

xabi wrote:zizou was a champ, lead his france with pride through the worldcups and carried it on his shoulders. and lionel bieber? what I heard he did not even score in a world cup. this shouldnt even be up for debate..

He has scored in a world cup, don't talk outcha ass. Zidane carried France on his shoulders? LOL France had the likes Henry Trezeguet Makelele Thuram Blanc Pires and Barthez in 98 and Ribery Henry Trezeguet Makelele Vieira and Malouda, they were both team efforts

lol and Messi had Aguero, Tevez, Diego Milito, Samuel, Pastore, Mascherano.

Half of them did'nt play just saying only Tevez and Mascherano really.....

Milito, Tevez,Pastore sat on the bench and Samuel was injured the majority.....

I am not going to say what i think because it just causes flamewars it does'nt matter what people will say in Messi's favour it will be ridiculed by Zidane fans and vice versa.

Complete waste of time tbh.

zidane is better than messi hands down....i know some fanboys like billionmillion fools themselves into believing otherwise...

this thread is waste of time...

Funny how Barca fans are ignoring Yuri's posts

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t543-zidane-was-not-that-great

read through this thread and it'll tell you how overrated zidane is.

to me better is the more effective player and that is is messi. messi is better, he is more direct, scores way more goals and sets up more. already has had 4 seasons with 10 or more assists. whereas zidane did not have more than 10 in a season in his whole career. zidane a lot of the time just dances around in the midfield, showing off his elegant style, but doesnt always really have an effect on the game. zidane may have more trickery, but no way is he a better dribbler. being better at tricks, doesn't make you the better player.

stop hating on messi for his world cup performance. first of all maradona is a terrible coach. messi actually played pretty well, it was just more was expected from him. he was very unlucky not to score. but set up about 3 or 4 and created many more. btw he has scored in a world cup, he scored against serbia in 2006. anyway he has another 2 or 3 world cups to go in his career. he's already played in two and is nearly 24. whereas zidane played his first at 26. also messi is already being compared to the greats off all time, whereas zidane came to globally recognition at the age of 24 when he moved to juve.

and seriously stop saying zidane single handedly took france to 2 wc finals. giving him way too much credit. if i could, i would give his 2000 ballon d'or to raul and his 2003 one to henry or nedved.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Well you are basing everything off potential which is fine, this isnt finance though where we can claculate future value back to the present this is real life. The pressure he has faced was not taken up solely by him but rather the whole team in which every single member of the starting 11 is a top 5 player in the world and the most revolutionary coach along with spaletti since sacchi. Even in those instances he did not take up the role of the leader dictating play or something of that caliber, rather he was always the wonder kid. In the last 5 high pressure (both mentally and physically) I do not remember messi owning up to it. Germany vs Argentina (without his teammates and coach), Real Madrid vs Barcelona liga and CDR, CL until the pepe sending off (Man Marking), Intermilan vs Barcelona (Home & Away, excepting being so kind to be maicons dentist). I might even include the chelsea game away as well. I remember seeing him crying in the world cup, seeing him being violent in the inter game, shooting the ball at the crowd in the real madrid game and so on.

The france squad was great in the defence aspect but it was severly lacking in creativity, zidane essentially had enough creativity to overcome the problems of the attack which was something really great. Thats a big reason they failed severly without him. France was like a great looking car with no engine and no direction, zidane gave them that. The galacticos were an overrated team, they had great individual talent and were amazing at marketing themselves however they were never tailored to be a winning team. They were without zidane a cheap copy of the Madridsmo team of 1996-2002. The fact that he could win a champions league with them is astonishing, when the man stopped giving as much because of age in 2005 the team fell apart. Whereas in the previous years they won a CL, league title, a semi they lost out because he wasnt there and a burnout of an aging team chasing a treble in 2004 that saw the team dumped out on away goals in the CL, too tired for the final of the CDR and lose many consecutive games in the final matchdays of the league.

why are you naming all these games of messi's in his young career. how about we go through every big game zidane has played in his career, but didn't win. i bet there's a lot more zidane performances to criticise than messi's. it's not like zidane has won that many trophies.

madrid were already a great team before zidane came, they already won two champions leagues in previous years. zidane wasnt the difference in 2002. madrid's failure after had a lot to do with makelele leaving, and before that they had redondo. if zidane was great in 2002, what happened to "france's engine" in the WC where they couldnt score a single goal and came last in the group stages.

zidane gets way too much praise for france in 1998 and 2006.

If you compare a 23 year old to an already retired player, you're gonna find men go through the 23 year old's career with a fine tooth comb as it is still fresh in our memories. Zidane's career has been over for some time and he has a nostalgic viewing going on so right there, you're gonna find an imbalance in the argument.

The funny thing is, though, Zidane wasn't immune to criticism or bad games in big games. In fact, I think around Messi's age, pundits questioned his mental resolve in those crunch matches (Del Piero got similar treatment). Anyway, that is flaw in the argument when comparing a retired legend and (probably a future legend) a great player playing still: too much nostalgia/bias from both parties' fans.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:You don't think Champions League finals and knockouts aren't high pressure? Just because he didn't score while Pepe was on the pitch doesn't mean he was asleep. Messi is a leader by example but I would not call him a wonder kid, he's a man and the best football player in the world right now.

Games are not high pressure because of the stage they are at in a knockout tournament, they are high pressure based on the quality of the opponent, his exploitation of your weaknesses, how big a role you must partake and the fans/club actions based on the outcome. I dont understand this concept of leader by example, its what some call the guy that puts in the hardest work but isnt actually the leader of the group as he pushes others through his actions. For messi I honestly dont see that, he is more talented than the rest nothing more. He cant teach them that. He isnt the hardest worker, he doesnt complain to referees but his team seem to do it the most when it involves him.

It's so ignorant to say that the only high pressure opponent he has faced was madrid and germany, considering you have never been in that position and are just assuming everything as well as you assume how good of a leader or not he is when in reality you're just guessing and don't have the slightest clue.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Well you are basing everything off potential which is fine, this isnt finance though where we can claculate future value back to the present this is real life. The pressure he has faced was not taken up solely by him but rather the whole team in which every single member of the starting 11 is a top 5 player in the world and the most revolutionary coach along with spaletti since sacchi. Even in those instances he did not take up the role of the leader dictating play or something of that caliber, rather he was always the wonder kid. In the last 5 high pressure (both mentally and physically) I do not remember messi owning up to it. Germany vs Argentina (without his teammates and coach), Real Madrid vs Barcelona liga and CDR, CL until the pepe sending off (Man Marking), Intermilan vs Barcelona (Home & Away, excepting being so kind to be maicons dentist). I might even include the chelsea game away as well. I remember seeing him crying in the world cup, seeing him being violent in the inter game, shooting the ball at the crowd in the real madrid game and so on.

The france squad was great in the defence aspect but it was severly lacking in creativity, zidane essentially had enough creativity to overcome the problems of the attack which was something really great. Thats a big reason they failed severly without him. France was like a great looking car with no engine and no direction, zidane gave them that. The galacticos were an overrated team, they had great individual talent and were amazing at marketing themselves however they were never tailored to be a winning team. They were without zidane a cheap copy of the Madridsmo team of 1996-2002. The fact that he could win a champions league with them is astonishing, when the man stopped giving as much because of age in 2005 the team fell apart. Whereas in the previous years they won a CL, league title, a semi they lost out because he wasnt there and a burnout of an aging team chasing a treble in 2004 that saw the team dumped out on away goals in the CL, too tired for the final of the CDR and lose many consecutive games in the final matchdays of the league.

Makelele was the erason the galacticos failed, not zidane. At club level were was Zidane when Juventus needed him in 2 cl finals?

Question for gagarin and other biased Zidane fans:
Where was Zidane in 2003, 04, 05, 06 CL games? Where was he 2001, 04, 05, 06 in La Liga? Where was he when Juventus needed him in 2 CL finals?

He flopped 6 years only won 1? this is how you carry your team?

billionmillion wrote:Question for gagarin and other biased Zidane fans:
Where was Zidane in 2003, 04, 05, 06 CL games? Where was he 2001, 04, 05, 06 in La Liga? Where was he when Juventus needed him in 2 CL finals?

He flopped 6 years only won 1? this is how you carry your team?

Couldn't have put it better myself.

jibers wrote:
Makelele was the erason the galacticos failed, not zidane. At club level were was Zidane when Juventus needed him in 2 cl finals?

Nope, Makelele wasn't the reason the Galacticos failed, well, wasn't the be all and end all reason. That year, Real Madrid decided to sell its footballing soul for corporate dollar. They also fired their coach (Del Bosque), sold Makelele and Solari and got rid of Hierro. The team lost its coach, Zidane lost his midfield partner (the engine) and Helguera lost his more much more experienced and talented partner in defense.

All 3 were inadequately replaced or not replaced at all. The whole selling Makelele being the reason is just a rather simplified and dumb down version of the events that took place...

Doc wrote:

jibers wrote:
Makelele was the erason the galacticos failed, not zidane. At club level were was Zidane when Juventus needed him in 2 cl finals?

Nope, Makelele wasn't the reason the Galacticos failed, well, wasn't the be all and end all reason. That year, Real Madrid decided to sell its footballing soul for corporate dollar. They also fired their coach (Del Bosque), sold Makelele and Solari and got rid of Hierro. The team lost its coach, Zidane lost his midfield partner (the engine) and Helguera lost his more much more experienced and talented partner in defense.

All 3 were inadequately replaced or not replaced at all. The whole selling Makelele being the reason is just a rather simplified and dumb down version of the events that took place...

+1 rep mate. Couldn't be bothered to write all this down. I am becoming a lazy poster, and honestly, I just can't be bothered to post as much as I did on goal.com.

Perez being in charge again sums up Madrid tbh. The guy drove them to the ground. Who in their right mind would sack a champions league winning coach? The guy is a FAIl and he will be the downfall of Madrid in his second spell.

wow the way zidane is underrated...

even cristiano is better than oompa

jibers wrote:

billionmillion wrote:Question for gagarin and other biased Zidane fans:
Where was Zidane in 2003, 04, 05, 06 CL games? Where was he 2001, 04, 05, 06 in La Liga? Where was he when Juventus needed him in 2 CL finals?

He flopped 6 years only won 1? this is how you carry your team?

Couldn't have put it better myself.

How long have you guys been watching football? the reason we lost in 03 was that zidane wasnt there. in 04 zidane got us to pole position in all three titles, we lost out on away goals it was supposed to be a treble to remember. The team was burn out though and we lost 6 of the last 7 league games and the CDR final. That season was the end of the project. 05 was lost in extra time after buffon had one of the best games in his life.

No gagarin you didnt answer to my questions, i can tell you more excuses about Messi. but we talk about result. result is that messi didnt win the WC. but some people said he was the best at the wc. but as a result no title and he is a flop in your eyes.

ok zidane was the best in his team and carried them but they won 0 titles, this means he flopped 6 years by your logic