My reflection on Brazilian and South American football

I've been reading all sorts of knee-jerk comments on Santos and South American football after the CWC, so I've decided to create this thread.

It is incredible how people are quick to dismiss Santos because of that 4-0, saying we wouldn't even make to Europa League's last 32. They seem to forget that Arsenal lost 1-4, Real Madrid 0-5, Napoli 0-5, etc, to that same Barcelona. Are they not good enough either?

ATTENTION: No Brazilian or South American here ever seemed to imply that we think Santos are as good as R. Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, etc, but is it really news that a certain team has been thrashed by the Blaugrana?

I am going to admit this: South American football is not what it used to be. The reason is simple: we've become farms. As soon as a new star rises, he goes out of the country. I think it has something to do with back in the 80s, when we lacked the money to be able to keep our players, and now even though our economy is strong, e.g. we're paying neymar a LOT of money, most players still leave, because now most of the best players are in Europe. It's become a habit. Same with Argentina, Uruguay, the African continent, etc.

Try to imagine how hard it is to build a team like Barcelona or Man Utd, when our teams are forced to change squads every year. And I'm not talking about selling one single player to a big team: I'm talking about the whole squad getting broken down to pieces, with our key players leaving to different clubs in Europe.

After Santos' Copa do Brasil title last year (which qualified us to the Libertadores), some of our best players like wesley and andré, who were key to successful way we were playing, beating opponents by 5, 6, 7 ,8, 9, 10 goals, left for europe. We went on to a mediocre Brasileirão league, one which we didn't really care for, but even if we did, we weren't as strong as we had been a few months before.

The same thing happens now: after our Libertadores title, alex sandro went to porto, Zé Eduardo is in Italy, Jonathan went to Inter, and danilo was bought by Porto but luckily stayed an extra semester. But he's leaving now and people who's seen him play can say that he'll be sorely missed.

Things are changing. Had this happened a couple of years ago, Neymar would've left before we could even play the Libertadores and Ganso might've left too. But it's still far from ideal. Neymar and Ganso can't make everything work all the time. We'd need a team that keeps more players for at least 2, 3 years in order to play really well. Look at Messi at Argentina. Why is he still not as successful as he is with Barça? The answer is simple: different players, and no time to train together. It's the same in Brazil, with every club we have.

That is also why our biggest clubs (and the NT) don't play the good old brazilian style, the way barca sort of does now. How could we? The players don't have the time to get to know each other. If at least we had 5 5-star, key players in the seleção who played at the same club, things might be different. But we don't. Our players go to Europe, to different teams, countries, and learn how to play football European style. You can't just put them together, train for 2 days, and expect a performance as good as the ones we had back in 1982.
That is why Dunga made us play that ugly type of football. That is also why Muricy Ramalho, Santos' current coach and the most successful Brazilian coach of the last few years, also excels in ugly tactics. It works, even if the players don't know each other that well. Pelé's Santos was a team that kept its key players for many years, that's why it was successful. At some point in the 60's, Brazil's NT was basically formed by Santos (Pelé's) and Botafogo (Garrincha's) players. Just like Spain with Barcelona and Real Madrid atm.

Comparing Neymar to Messi is another ridiculous thing. Why do that? Neymar himself doesn't even like when people ask him, and he always says Messi is superior to him in every possible way. And it's the truth, at least for now.
Now, dont tell me that he's no better than the average good player from Villareal or something like that.
Think about this: Messi is the best player in the world, no doubt about it, but if yesterday he had been on Santos' side, and Neymar at barcelona, which team do you think would've won? Would the result have been different?
Sure, barca's possession might've gone down to 69% instead of 72%, and santos might've lost 0-3 instead of 0-4 lol, but the result would be the same.
Guardiola said that Neymar is a great player with the ball on his feet, but not without it, and Barcelona were able to stop him from getting the ball most of the time. When he did get the ball, he missed some chances that are natural and happen to any player, especially a 19-year-old playing the biggest game of his life so far. Didn't Messi miss an incredible chance against AC Milan just a month or two back? Didn't C. Ronaldo miss two easy goals against Barcelona?

Anyway, here's my conclusion: at this moment, Santos don't have a great defense, in fact, our defense has never been our strongest point - that is our attack. we might have the best best starting 11 in brazil, but not in south america atm. you cannot write off a team based on one performance. everyone has bad days, like real madrid did on that 0-5 defeat to the same Barça. the best south americans teams are NOT as good as the european giants, that much has always been clear. we don't have the money for that yet. But putting us down to a no-Europa League level is, as Michael Jackson would say, ignorant.

What happens here is plain prejudice from euroboys or eurofans.

Only Argentina and Brazil are suffering, though.

Look at the rest of us pimps shooting down the big guns with tactical masterclasses . In our case, since our leagues are so shit, it's actually a good thing that European clubs have come looking here for talent. Now they're actually developing nicely and we have plenty playing for top European leagues. Explains our sudden rise in class.

Face it, it's always been this way. SA football is not suffering or anything for top players playing at top clubs. It's always going to be and always has been Europe oriented. Doesn't mean they have to play like shit back at home.

Put the blame on your managers who don't know how to build a decent team if it bit them in the ass.

Sushi Master wrote:Only Argentina and Brazil are suffering, though.

Look at the rest of us pimps shooting down the big guns with tactical masterclasses . In our case, since our leagues are so shit, it's actually a good thing that European clubs have come looking here for talent. Now they're actually developing nicely and we have plenty playing for top European leagues. Explains our sudden rise in class.

Face it, it's always been this way. SA football is not suffering or anything for top players playing at top clubs. It's always going to be and always has been Europe oriented. Doesn't mean they have to play like shit back at home.

Put the blame on your managers who don't know how to build a decent team if it bit them in the ass.

I didn't understand your last sentence. What do you mean, our managers? The coachs? Santos did win the Libertadores with their current coach, the same won who's 4 out of the last 6 Brasileirões. He's good, but he can't work miracles against Barça.

And when it comes to the seleção, I dont think anyone can make Brazil play like we used to 30 years ago, it's that simple. Even if we have good players, they dont have the time to train together like they once did. And the Brazilians are very impatient.

Agree with Sushi Master tbh

rsinatra wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:Only Argentina and Brazil are suffering, though.

Look at the rest of us pimps shooting down the big guns with tactical masterclasses . In our case, since our leagues are so shit, it's actually a good thing that European clubs have come looking here for talent. Now they're actually developing nicely and we have plenty playing for top European leagues. Explains our sudden rise in class.

Face it, it's always been this way. SA football is not suffering or anything for top players playing at top clubs. It's always going to be and always has been Europe oriented. Doesn't mean they have to play like shit back at home.

Put the blame on your managers who don't know how to build a decent team if it bit them in the ass.

I didn't understand your last sentence. What do you mean, our managers? The coachs? Santos did win the Libertadores with their current coach, the same won who's 4 out of the last 6 Brasileirões. He's good, but he can't work miracles against Barça.

And when it comes to the seleção, I dont think anyone can make Brazil play like we used to 30 years ago, it's that simple. Even if we have good players, they dont have the time to train together like they once did. And the Brazilians are very impatient.

No, not at all. At club level you are fine. Brazil and Argentina are still producing butt loads of talent. The Libertadores is very competitive. I meant managers at NT level . I bet if Brazil wasn't so inconsistent at NT level, and raping everyone as they have historically done, you wouldn't have this thread.

Not playing in the same league doesn't mean much at NT level. Most guys can be in the same league, yet still play at different clubs and only see each other in NT training sessions. Let's look at that beast 2002 side that won the World Cup. Marcos played in Palmeiras, Gilberto Silva was just joining Arsenal... the rest? All in Europe.

Sushi Master wrote:

rsinatra wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:Only Argentina and Brazil are suffering, though.

Look at the rest of us pimps shooting down the big guns with tactical masterclasses . In our case, since our leagues are so shit, it's actually a good thing that European clubs have come looking here for talent. Now they're actually developing nicely and we have plenty playing for top European leagues. Explains our sudden rise in class.

Face it, it's always been this way. SA football is not suffering or anything for top players playing at top clubs. It's always going to be and always has been Europe oriented. Doesn't mean they have to play like shit back at home.

Put the blame on your managers who don't know how to build a decent team if it bit them in the ass.

I didn't understand your last sentence. What do you mean, our managers? The coachs? Santos did win the Libertadores with their current coach, the same won who's 4 out of the last 6 Brasileirões. He's good, but he can't work miracles against Barça.

And when it comes to the seleção, I dont think anyone can make Brazil play like we used to 30 years ago, it's that simple. Even if we have good players, they dont have the time to train together like they once did. And the Brazilians are very impatient.

No, not at all. At club level you are fine. Brazil and Argentina are still producing butt loads of talent. The Libertadores is very competitive. I meant managers at NT level . I bet if Brazil wasn't so inconsistent at NT level, and raping everyone as they have historically done, you wouldn't have this thread.

Not playing in the same league doesn't mean much at NT level. Most guys can be in the same league, yet still play at different clubs and only see each other in NT training sessions. Let's look at that beast 2002 side that won the World Cup. Marcos played in Palmeiras, Gilberto Silva was just joining Arsenal... the rest? All in Europe.

But that's the thing: we are not fine at club level. I don't know how much of Brazilian football you follow (won't blame you if you don't, really), but as much as we might be relatively fine to play at home, or in South America, our squads are still very inconstant, and changing too many key players every 6 months-1 year.

Take Cruzeiro, who had an awesome start to the year, having the best campaign on the Libertadores group stage, and were one of the very favorites to win the title. They play the first leg of the round of 16 against Once Caldas, away, and win it. Then they come home and ruin it on the second leg!!! When would that happen with Barcelona, or Real Madrid? Once in a million times perhaps, but here it happens way too often.
Corinthians, 3rd spot at the Brasileirão last year (and champions this year), were eliminated by a mediocre Dep. Tolima side at the Libertadores play-offs, with Ronaldo and R. Carlos on the pitch. Internacional lost to a unknown Mazembe team last year at the CWC semi-finals.

We don't have a truly great club as we have done before. The last time Brazil truly had a great club team was in 1996, with Palmeiras. We've also had Telê Santana's São Paulo (that won the old Intercontinental Cup twice in a row), Falcão's Internacional, Pelé's Santos, etc, but in the last 15 years, nothing really, because we sell our best players to Europe way too quickly.

Anyway, when it comes to the NT, it's a matter of what you call awesome. Many people don't consider that 2002 side "a beast": Cruyff said that we won the WC by playing anti-football, winning on the opponents' mistakes. The players were great, and yet we were doing very poorly right up to the WC's beginning. We had great individual players, but we didn't have a beautiful team play like in 1970, 78, 82, 86.. in one sentence: we didn't play like Brazil, we played like a European NT. And when you say that "it's always going to be and always has been Europe oriented" you are being very, very wrong. Brazil's football was innovative, revolutionary in the way it was in the past. When Europeans saw what Brazilians and Uruguayans did in the early 1920s or something, they were astonished: it was so different from their style. And what Brazil did in the late 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's was also very unique, the same way Holland was in '74. Pep Guardiola said something about Barcelona's style of play after the CWC final, and added that that quick-passing thing "is something Brazil always has done, according to my parents and grandparents"..

And as of now, I don't think we'll be able to play like 1982 (quick passing, very offensive) so soon again. Brazil are 6th according to FIFA atm. It shows how well we're doing...........not.

Venezuelans... posting about South American futebol..

XDDDDDDDDDDDD My Sides!!!!!

Isn't baseball your first sport??

Bravo mate. Great read. This is why I come to gl.

^thanks

I think one thing Sushi Master perhaps doesn't understand is that in Brazil, winning is not enough. We have to play well, play beautiful, because that's how it's always been. I don't want to sound arrogant, but perhaps it's good enough for Venezuela or Paraguay to win matches by playing catenaccio-like football, because you already have that small team mentality. Brazil are not a small team. It's not okay for us to play against Gabon and not give a super perfomance like Barcelona did with Santos. We have the best footballing school in the world ffs, or at least we did once. One of Barça's best player yesterday was Dani Alves(!!!)...

The only coach in Brazil that I consider world class atm is Muricy, and his style is completely un-Brazilian. We are too proud to consider inviting a foreign coach with true class and balls, or a manager, someone like Cruyff or something.

rsinatra wrote:

You obviously know a lot more about Brazilian football than I do, but what you state is what's happened for decades now. Has there really been any consistant SA superteam? Most big teams only last for a few years. Their best players are always poached to Europe. Just look at how crazy La Libertadores can be. That inconsistency just shows the overall strength of our leagues (which are underrated) and that yes, most of the top teams are ripped of their best players, thus having constant rebuilding eras.

I do agree on the Brazilian "style" dying off. I would argue that your players are not as good as before, although you have a hell lot of youth talent right now and that could change. Joga bonito is indeed a thing of the past which should be brought back to life.

Sad thing is that even at club side most clubs have adapted "European" tactics. It's just football evolving as usual. Plus all those great homegrown players are going to be very hard to keep because of the huge ammount of money being thrown around these days, and that's what moves the world around these days.

I do like how Brazil has called up many local guys who have proven their worth, including their manager. We just have to wait and see how that will turn out.

Catracho wrote:Venezuelans... posting about South American futebol..

XDDDDDDDDDDDD My Sides!!!!!

Isn't baseball your first sport??

Yes, we're world class at baseball and it is our first sport... but what does that have to do with anything? What are you, Brazilian, Argentine? Didn't know only 2 SA countries existed. Didn't know this was a public form, and a thread about South American football, which includes Venezuelan football. Didn't know my opinion does not count even though I'm Venezuelan. Didn't know we manage draws out of Brazil and recently beat Argentina in a historical match. Didn't know we're not the local joke we were years ago.

So frack off, asshole.

its impossible/really hard to play joga bonito atm,we havent seen it since the 80's (even though i think it never existed in the first place)

Yesterday Robinho got trashed on the chat room for doing a trick,simply because it led to nothing.A lot of things have changed,from the overall mentality to tactics....

Sushi you are wrong. It wasn't always the case that any remotely good player went to Europe. Not so long ago, in Maradona's years, only the best of the best went to Europe. Now teams spot a 20 year old with a chance of some day becoming a good player and they poach him. A young Brazilian/Argentine going to Europe before even turning 20 is not even considered unusual anymore. There are plenty of examples. This has definitely hindered football in South America, although Argentina's problems are more structural than Brazil's (the short tournaments, the lack of federalism, the lack of a unified grass roots movement to train kids, etc.). But your assertion that "it was always this way" is simply not true.

Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela )

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years.

dwi Sushi.. dwi.

Ganso wrote:its impossible/really hard to play joga bonito atm,we havent seen it since the 80's (even though i think it never existed in the first place)

Yesterday Robinho got trashed on the chat room for doing a trick,simply because it led to nothing.A lot of things have changed,from the overall mentality to tactics....

Jogo bonito is not all about tricks though. Watch the 1982 Brazil play at the WC (you can download the full matches online like I did), there weren't really tricks like Robinho likes to do, or Ronaldinho, Ronaldo. There were some classy passes, and perhaps a few "normal" tricks, but the jogo bonito is about the team play, the passing speed, the one-touch thing, the movement, the high level technique, etc. Basically, I think it's impossible to expect a jogo bonito team these days (it died with Brazil in that match against Italy in 82), but I think that Barcelona's team has created a modern "jogo bonito" way, and if they can do it, others can, they just to adopt their philosophy and be patient.... and perhaps have some money lol

btw, I heard that the current Copa Sudamericana winnes Universidad de Chile play some very nice football.. Juca Kfouri and Vitor Birner went as far as saying that they are currently the best South American club side. But will probably get dismantled now that the cup is over.

Catracho wrote:Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela )

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years.

dwi Sushi.. dwi.

I agree with you about our league changing due our economy growth, but I think it's still a very slow process. We're keeping our biggest players, sure, but in the meantime the lesser good (but still quite good) players are still leaving, not only because of the money, but because now it's widely accept that Europe is the place to be. So, we have to really adopt this philosophy and try to convince our players to stay here. Neymar is being a great example to other players.

I think even Robinho would be better nowadays if he hadn't left for Real Madrid so early.

Joga Bonito doesn't exist lol.

its a made up cultural sporting style that was made famous by Nike...

Ganso wrote:

what?

rsinatra wrote:

Ganso wrote:its impossible/really hard to play joga bonito atm,we havent seen it since the 80's (even though i think it never existed in the first place)

Yesterday Robinho got trashed on the chat room for doing a trick,simply because it led to nothing.A lot of things have changed,from the overall mentality to tactics....

Jogo bonito is not all about tricks though. Watch the 1982 Brazil play at the WC (you can download the full matches online like I did), there weren't really tricks like Robinho likes to do, or Ronaldinho, Ronaldo. There were some classy passes, and perhaps a few "normal" tricks, but the jogo bonito is about the team play, the passing speed, the one-touch thing, the movement, the high level technique, etc. Basically, I think it's impossible to expect a jogo bonito team these days (it died with Brazil in that match against Italy in 82), but I think that Barcelona's team has created a modern "jogo bonito" way, and if they can do it, others can, they just to adopt their philosophy and be patient.... and perhaps have some money lol

btw, I heard that the current Copa Sudamericana winnes Universidad de Chile play some very nice football.. Juca Kfouri and Vitor Birner went as far as saying that they are currently the best South American club side. But will probably get dismantled now that the cup is over.

they pressure a lot like barca,ive seen their games,but they are selling their best player,Vargas,to Napoli so i dont see them doing much next season,after all libertadores>>sudamericana.

about the tricks,well yeah but the tricks are the main thing about joga bonito ,if passing and high speed football is joga bonito then we could say Germany plays JB.

Also,sometime i wonder if im the only one who doesnt find Barca football attractive,i mean the vs Santos match was awesome but most of the time they basically keep passing without an objective and make fouls just to break counters,they basically dont want the opponent to play which pretty much "kills" football,its not entertaining for me

rsinatra wrote:

Catracho wrote:Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela )

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years.

dwi Sushi.. dwi.

I agree with you about our league changing due our economy growth, but I think it's still a very slow process. We're keeping our biggest players, sure, but in the meantime the lesser good (but still quite good) players are still leaving, not only because of the money, but because now it's widely accept that Europe is the place to be. So, we have to really adopt this philosophy and try to convince our players to stay here. Neymar is being a great example to other players.

I think even Robinho would be better nowadays if he hadn't left for Real Madrid so early.

Well I think players now know..that they have a better shot of being called-up if they stay in Brazil. It also helps that a lot of bigger names are returning.

Theres a lot of factors that are now helping Brasileirao be the Brasileirao of old. Also theres a difference between a player leaving at 19 than at say 25. I have no problem is a player leaves at a good age (ex. Hernanes), but i do have a problem if he leaves too early before the club had a true chance at developing him (ex. Wellington Silva)

It also helps our stars of today are staying home more, cuz that means younger players won't have to idol Europe since our stars will be in Brazil promoting the league more.

Viscous Cycle that is finally being undone.

Catracho wrote:Joga Bonito doesn't exist lol.

its a made up cultural sporting style that was made famous by Nike...

lol sure, but have you watched the '70 and '82 WC Brazil matches? Or even the '86 a little.. that's what people call the jogo bonito I think. Just a beautiful way to play football. Beauty above everything, like Socrates said. He said he'd rather losing play pretty they win playing ugly, because he wanted to stand by his philosophy.

And I think Barcelona are perhaps the only team that play truly beautiful football with constancy atm, the closest there is to the way Brazil used to play..

Just watch Brazil from '82 and then watch some of Mano's of even Dunga's Brazil play.. or even Parreira's for that matter... it's something else. The happiness, the pleasure you feel in watching that. It's like watching Barcelona at their best.

rsinatra wrote:

Ganso wrote:

what?

sushi vs catracho

I conceed on the history. SA football history is not my strong point. There are pretty much clubs dedicated to poaching SA talent (Palermo, Udinese, Liga clubs). I can see that this wasn't the case before.

Catracho wrote:Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela )

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years.

dwi Sushi.. dwi.

Huh? I did not say that. I said that some countries are doing off better by having their talent poached, as is in our case. Yes, I know our league is shit and I have already stated it. Our talents would never develop as needed without European aid. Argentina, Brazil etc. are obviously a different manner entirely due to having strong leagues and important history.

I don't understand your butthurt defending Brazil. Just saying European clubs have massive money and all that top talent will go if top money is offered. Sure, they're worth more than before but so what? European clubs are still top dog due to the resources they have. Give it time and this will happen less, due to Brazil's improving economy. Yeah, I can see that but just not right now.

Ganso wrote:

rsinatra wrote:

Ganso wrote:

what?

sushi vs catracho

lol

I couldn't let this continue... goes against everything i believe in

Sushi Master wrote:I conceed on the history. SA football history is not my strong point. There are pretty much clubs dedicated to poaching SA talent (Palermo, Udinese, Liga clubs). I can see that this wasn't the case before.

Catracho wrote:Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela )

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years.

dwi Sushi.. dwi.

Huh? I did not say that. I said that some countries are doing off better by having their talent poached, as is in our case. Yes, I know our league is shit and I have already stated it. Our talents would never develop as needed without European aid. Argentina, Brazil etc. are obviously a different manner entirely due to having strong leagues and important history.

I don't understand your butthurt defending Brazil. Just saying European clubs have massive money and all that top talent will go if top money is offered. Sure, they're worth more than before but so what? European clubs are still top dog due to the resources they have. Give it time and this will happen less, due to Brazil's improving economy. Yeah, I can see that but just not right now.

its happening right now...

and I'm going to end it at that because if I was to continue with my opinion you'd probably throw your computer at your wall, cuz you might see it as 2muchBlasphemyFor1manToHandle.