Messi breaks the UCL knockout phase goal record @ 24.

Saetablanca wrote:Well obviously, the recent success of Barca has something to do with it. But the other European teams havent been as good in past years. I guess Barca were lucky they only had Mou's Inter as real rivals in the past few years.

Yeah, very lucky lol

Scoring against Man Utd et al isnt worth anything.

Make all the excuses in the world, Messi has scored at 24 already caught up a mid 30's Raul. I dont know why you feel the need to try and belittle Messi by overrating Raul's goals.

This only goes to prove to me that defenders now are absolute shite compared to those of years gone by.

Honestly this generation of defenders in current football is the worst I have seen since I started watching football over 20 years ago and Messi's/Rooney's record in the UCL only go to prove that.

Crimson wrote:This only goes to prove to me that defenders now are absolute shite compared to those of years gone by.

Honestly this generation of defenders in current football is the worst I have seen since I started watching football over 20 years ago and Messi's/Rooney's record in the UCL only go to prove that.

Mr. Analyst making again high-quality conclusions from the available data.

What an achievement. He has the record of a veteran at 24.

jiopsi wrote:

Crimson wrote:This only goes to prove to me that defenders now are absolute shite compared to those of years gone by.

Honestly this generation of defenders in current football is the worst I have seen since I started watching football over 20 years ago and Messi's/Rooney's record in the UCL only go to prove that.

Mr. Analyst making again high-quality conclusions from the available data.

Yeah, like when he proved that Ronaldo is as creative as Messi when Messi had twice as much through balls than Ronaldo.

free_cat wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Crimson wrote:This only goes to prove to me that defenders now are absolute shite compared to those of years gone by.

Honestly this generation of defenders in current football is the worst I have seen since I started watching football over 20 years ago and Messi's/Rooney's record in the UCL only go to prove that.

Mr. Analyst making again high-quality conclusions from the available data.

Yeah, like when he proved that Ronaldo is as creative as Messi when Messi had twice as much through balls than Ronaldo.

Still only created the same amount of chances for their team mates.

Throughball =/= chance created.

So are the Barcelona fans saying the defenders of today are better than those that Raul and Sheva faced in their prime?

lmao....

Crimson wrote:

free_cat wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Crimson wrote:This only goes to prove to me that defenders now are absolute shite compared to those of years gone by.

Honestly this generation of defenders in current football is the worst I have seen since I started watching football over 20 years ago and Messi's/Rooney's record in the UCL only go to prove that.

Mr. Analyst making again high-quality conclusions from the available data.

Yeah, like when he proved that Ronaldo is as creative as Messi when Messi had twice as much through balls than Ronaldo.

Still only created the same amount of chances for their team mates.

Throughball =/= chance created.

Through balls needs the absolute highest amount of creativity, key pass can be made by one meter back pass that your team mate takes a shot.

Crimson wrote:This only goes to prove to me that defenders now are absolute shite compared to those of years gone by.

Honestly this generation of defenders in current football is the worst I have seen since I started watching football over 20 years ago and Messi's/Rooney's record in the UCL only go to prove that.

This

Crimson wrote:

free_cat wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Crimson wrote:This only goes to prove to me that defenders now are absolute shite compared to those of years gone by.

Honestly this generation of defenders in current football is the worst I have seen since I started watching football over 20 years ago and Messi's/Rooney's record in the UCL only go to prove that.

Mr. Analyst making again high-quality conclusions from the available data.

Yeah, like when he proved that Ronaldo is as creative as Messi when Messi had twice as much through balls than Ronaldo.

Still only created the same amount of chances for their team mates.

Throughball =/= chance created.

If I'm not wrong, the "key pass" statistic, means a pass that ends in a shot, right?

Pass that ends in shot =/= chance created.

Through ball = almost certainly chance created.

jiopsi wrote:

Crimson wrote:

free_cat wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Crimson wrote:This only goes to prove to me that defenders now are absolute shite compared to those of years gone by.

Honestly this generation of defenders in current football is the worst I have seen since I started watching football over 20 years ago and Messi's/Rooney's record in the UCL only go to prove that.

Mr. Analyst making again high-quality conclusions from the available data.

Yeah, like when he proved that Ronaldo is as creative as Messi when Messi had twice as much through balls than Ronaldo.

Still only created the same amount of chances for their team mates.

Throughball =/= chance created.

Through balls need the absolute highest amount of creativity, key pass can be made by one meter back pass that your team mate takes a shot.

Being Madrid, that shot is most likely taken from 25 metres away from goal.

Crimson wrote:So are the Barcelona fans saying the defenders of today are better than those that Raul and Sheva faced in their prime?

lmao....

I'm saying they are not worse.

Messi was already ripping defences apart when Raul or Sheva were in their prime, for your information. So barely valid argument. It's not like they are players from 20 years difference, they played in the same time.

Crimson wrote:So are the Barcelona fans saying the defenders of today are better than those that Raul and Sheva faced in their prime?

lmao....

Wait, you're actually saying that defenders were better then?

Crimson wrote:So are the Barcelona fans saying the defenders of today are better than those that Raul and Sheva faced in their prime?

lmao....

Didnt know individual centerbacks are the only relevant parts of a "defence".

And didnt Messi twice destroy Man Utd, the same Man Utd who have (or came a game away from I cant remember) the Champions League Clean sheet record.

The way I see Messi fans in this forum is that they remind me of all the big religions. They believe in it, but no...they are not happy at that, they feel the need to make everyone else a believer. They constantly praise it, and bash anyone else who has a different opinion. Their delusion doesn't allow them to see a neutral perspective. They are stuck in a cycle, praise him, criticize others religions (players) to get rid of the insecurity, and bash the people who dont believe in it.

LOL @ some Madrid fans looking for excuses because Messi has surpassed Raul

free_cat wrote:

Crimson wrote:So are the Barcelona fans saying the defenders of today are better than those that Raul and Sheva faced in their prime?

lmao....

I'm saying they are not worse.

Messi was already ripping defences apart when Raul or Sheva were in their prime, for your information. So barely valid argument. It's not like they are players from 20 years difference, they played in the same time.

No he wasn't......

Go look at his goals scored ffs

I haven't seen any defenders that could lay claim to being considered some of the best ever since Messi ramped up his scoring in the UCl over the last 3 years.

Those defenders were ending their careers or way past their prime.

I said the exact same thing about Ronaldo's and Messi's goal scoring exploits of late.

Defenders of today are not only not as good but are given less room for error when facing forwards compared to years gone by.

In 10 years, we'll say that the next GOAT didn't have to deal with the likes of Ramos Vidic or TSilva

Albiceleste wrote:In 10 years, we'll say that the next GOAT didn't have to deal with the likes of Ramos Vidic or TSilva

lmao I don't think so

I dont know if Crim realises this but good defending is a team effort and not just the individual defenders in the back 4.......

By saying Messi and Ronaldo score as many goals as they do because of the poor defenders you are also stating the cover that the forwards and midfielders provide is piss poor aswell......

I personally think your just enjoying a healthy dose of nostalgia.

Team defending > individual centerback ability

Who are these great defensive centerbacks anyway? Nesta? Ronaldinho abused him in his prime.

Terry? Dinho did that too.

Cannavero? The almighty flop in La Liga then great again on his Serie A return.

Who else?

Albiceleste wrote:In 10 years, we'll say that the next GOAT didn't have to deal with the likes of Ramos,Chiellini Vidic or TSilva

Fixed

Btw on topic : And i cant realize that so many people hate Messi.They are trying to deny Messi's skills and his success.Thats unbelivable.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I dont know if Crim realises this but good defending is a team effort and not just the individual defenders in the back 4.......

By saying Messi and Ronaldo score as many goals as they do because of the poor defenders you are also stating the cover that the forwards and midfielders provide is piss poor aswell......

I personally think your just enjoying a healthy dose of nostalgia.

No shit sherlock
But the fact of the matter is defenders are no where near as good as they were, no more Sanchis, Hierro's, Cannavaro's, Maldini's, Nesta's, Stam's, Makelele's and Viera's

I could name a dozen more, the quality is not there any more.

No DM's today could you list as some of the best ever in the history of the sport and argue it clearly, same goes for the defenders. Where as you could with Maka and Viera.

Sure defending as a team does work but it's simply not the same thing.

I sometimes wonder how long people have been watching football here.

Crimson wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Crimson wrote:So are the Barcelona fans saying the defenders of today are better than those that Raul and Sheva faced in their prime?

lmao....

I'm saying they are not worse.

Messi was already ripping defences apart when Raul or Sheva were in their prime, for your information. So barely valid argument. It's not like they are players from 20 years difference, they played in the same time.

No he wasn't......

Go look at his goals scored ffs

I haven't seen any defenders that could lay claim to being considered some of the best ever since Messi ramped up his scoring in the UCl over the last 3 years.

Those defenders were ending their careers or way past their prime.

I said the exact same thing about Ronaldo's and Messi's goal scoring exploits of late.

Defenders of today are not only not as good but are given less room for error when facing forwards compared to years gone by.

goals =/= proof that someone ripped a defence apart.

dont belive that messi could rip apart some of the best defence of raul an hevas time? watch chelsea - barca 2006, where a 18 year old messi, without scoring a goal or assisted a goal, humiliated the best defence of that time, trained by the most defensive coach.

Here´s a link

Defenses aren't as important as before. Focus is mostly in midfield now. Most teams employ 5 man midfields and lone strikers. Pressing is common.

I agree defenders aren't as good as before but you also have to see how the game has changed. Most great players seem to be focused in the midfield position. Nevermind fullbacks who are very, very scarse nowadays.

Pure DMs also don't exist anymore. You have to have some sort of technical ability to suceed. I can't think of any top team employing a pure DM week after week. It's always a more defensive oriented CM, and a more creative one paired up. And a guy in the "hole".

Sushi Master wrote:Defenses aren't as important as before. Focus is mostly in midfield now. Most teams employ 5 man midfields and lone strikers. Pressing is common.

I agree defenders aren't as good as before but you also have to see how the game has changed. Most great players seem to be focused in the midfield position. Nevermind fullbacks who are very, very scarse nowadays.

Pure DMs also don't exist anymore. You have to have some sort of technical ability to suceed. I can't think of any top team employing a pure DM week after week. It's always a more defensive oriented CM, and a more creative one paired up. And a guy in the "hole".

True the game has changed alot

But I just don't see these kind of goal scoring exploits happening 10 years ago.

Would Ronaldo score 40 in the league against Super Depor, Valencia and Betis if he were playing 10 years ago. I highly doubt it.

You look at where Rooney sits on the ladder of goals scored in knockout rounds as well and although I rate him a very good player, like Messi who I can say is the best player going around atm. I do think the pure quality in defence has dropped significantly.

Defenders are also I believe at more of a disadvantage now, every 50/50 call seems to go the way of the attacker and you cannot get away with nearly as much as you used too.

Rooney only needs 4-5 goals to pass Sheva and Raul as well, next people would be saying he is the second best player ever to play the UCL? I feel that's wrong.

Just my opinion and I realise it's not a popular one.