Old Man Johan: Barca's cycle is over, Only people in chelsea district are happy about CL final

animal.crackers wrote:I hate that parking the bus upsets people.

It's a strategy, FFS.

Sometimes, the best one.

Its a tactic not a strategy.

Sushi Master wrote:1. Chelsea were in a final, away in Munich.
2. Chelsea had numerous defensive suspensions. Bosigwa was playing, FFS.
3. Their tactical shift from gung ho ball keeping to a more conservative approach had won them a cup and got them to a final.
4. When the frack have Chelsea played pretty?

So you wanted Chelsea to go all out attack when half their defense is gone, they are away in a final, changing their tactics last minute when it has given them success and to try something radically new their players aren't even adapted to, or built to do.

Yeah.

THIS.

as much as i dislike chelsea, they couldnt have played in any other fashion and hoped to win .. barca and bayern shouldve just taken their chances !!

Cruyff is the guy who lost a final 4-0 , no other coach in European cup history can say this.

I bet he has a dvd of Barca's best plays that day as well. His view on football is so distorted he forgot what it's really about.

Gomez83 wrote:

Guiltybystander wrote:

Gomez83 wrote:Correction, money isn't killing the sport it is killing teams.
From a neutrals perspective it is awesome watching two all star teams face each other. Sport is not going down hill because your superior team might lose to a newcomer...

So you like seeing the same 8 quarter finalists each year player each other over and over again, same teams facing each other borefest over having surprises and underdog teams taking part too?

Players who play for lesser teams aren't even considered good anymore, "because they are unproven for a big team". What bullshit is that.

So because you think it is boring that means the sport is going downhill? Maybe for you but in reality it isn't. As-well believe it or not football isn't only in Europe, not the whole sport is revolved around UEFA

I am saying it is going downhill because the competitiveness of leagues is going down because of this money influx to rich teams.

1) Smaller leagues and smaller teams within leagues lose their quality because they get a lot less revenue from competitions and tv/marketing etc. than the standard top teams, thus they are robbed empty of all their good players, making the gap between the top teams and everything underneath even bigger.

2) You say there is football beyond UEFA, yes there is, but that isn't exactly helped by having competitions such as the CL and other UEFA-related things in their current format. Imagine what kind of match Santos-Fluminese would be if both teams hadn't lost half of their teams to European superpowers. Don't you know how frustrating it is as an Ajax fan that everytime you see your team rebuilding, all the young players are bought away for far too few money?

3) Big teams only really care about the CL. The league is very important yes, but winning the CL is the most important achievement. That is because leagues have lost their competitiveness and importance in comparison (not saying league isn't worth anything! but people care more about CL). Sorry, but it is not normal that Real can win 100 points in a year, and every time they TIE a match, it is big news.

4) Having the same teams in the CL every year, having the group stage designed as such that the same teams also always go through, same teams making millions and millions off of it makes the problem only worse. And if there are some lesser teams who fought to make it to the semis. people complain that the level this year is low. IT IS LOW BECAUSE THE MONEY RUINS EVERYTHING.


IMO they should reinstall that rule where teams can only have like, say, half of their team not be a citizen of their own country in every starting 11, or force teams to have a certain amount of players from their own youth.

And I also think the seating stuff is bullshit, every european competition is allowed to send 2/3 teams, not that nonsense where some get four and others only first round, and all teams should be put in one big pot for the draw, so that the two highest seated teams don't usually by default progress. What's wrong with a group phase with Bayern, Barca, Real and City in one group? You still get to watch the matches, who cares it is not the semis? This would restore competitiveness in smaller leagues, and would also make the big leagues more competitive since it actually becomes VERY important to do well in the league.

Guiltybystander wrote:IMO they should reinstall that rule where teams can only have like, say, half of their team not be a citizen of their own country in every starting 11, or force teams to have a certain amount of players from their own youth.

And I also think the seating stuff is bullshit, every european competition is allowed to send 2/3 teams, not that nonsense where some get four and others only first round, and all teams should be put in one big pot for the draw, so that the two highest seated teams don't usually by default progress. What's wrong with a group phase with Bayern, Barca, Real and City in one group? You still get to watch the matches, who cares it is not the semis? This would restore competitiveness in smaller leagues, and would also make the big leagues more competitive since it actually becomes VERY important to do well in the league.

Actually I'd like that, too.

BTW one a side note - teams like Bayern and Barca actually do play quite a lot of players from their own youth and from their countries. Interestingly this doesn't actually make their teams worse, wouldn't you say?

I'd be all for teams having more domestic/homegrown players in them, but I guess that might be not so favourable for sugar daddy teams that just buy players left and right....

rwo power wrote:

Guiltybystander wrote:IMO they should reinstall that rule where teams can only have like, say, half of their team not be a citizen of their own country in every starting 11, or force teams to have a certain amount of players from their own youth.

And I also think the seating stuff is bullshit, every european competition is allowed to send 2/3 teams, not that nonsense where some get four and others only first round, and all teams should be put in one big pot for the draw, so that the two highest seated teams don't usually by default progress. What's wrong with a group phase with Bayern, Barca, Real and City in one group? You still get to watch the matches, who cares it is not the semis? This would restore competitiveness in smaller leagues, and would also make the big leagues more competitive since it actually becomes VERY important to do well in the league.

Actually I'd like that, too.

BTW one a side note - teams like Bayern and Barca actually do play quite a lot of players from their own youth and from their countries. Interestingly this doesn't actually make their teams worse, wouldn't you say?

I'd be all for teams having more domestic/homegrown players in them, but I guess that might be not so favourable for sugar daddy teams that just buy players left and right....

Agreed! I actually mentioned Barca earlier too and their youth players. I think their recent victories are more heroic because they have youth players. Same goes for Bayern. If you look at dominating teams from the past, this actually quite often also the case! It makes a team closer knit and more willing to fight and there is more loyalty towards the players from both management and fans.

_LMG_10_ wrote:I hate that people defend park-the-bus tactics.

Football is entertainment first and foremost. Unfortunately that has been lost on most people nowadays. It's only about trophies and winning.

in 20 years time, no one will remember how Chelsea played to win it. All they will know is that Chelsea have a CL trophy in their cabinet.

Playing good is just a bonus, winning is what's important.

I hate it when people pretend that winning isn't important.

Zealous wrote:I hate it when people pretend that winning isn't important.

Exactly. Look at Arsenal, for all the 'pretty' football they play, they haven't won jack for the last 7 years.

I bet all of them would accept Arsenal playing like Stoke if it meant they'd win the CL or the league.

I think people need to realise the different between counter attacking football and parking the bus.....

What Chelsea did was parking the bus and parking the bus involves alot of luck and Chelsea got it big bloody deal every team that wins the CL has needed a considerable amount of luck.

Now Inter that won the CL were a counter attacking team, they hardly gave away any chances what so ever and counter attacked with efficiency and skill.

The two are completely different and should not be compared.

Also Chelsea are not the worse team to ever win the CL, Liverpool was a lot worse.

Also a top team cant play like Stoke because it isnt effective at the top level theres a difference between Stoke and defensively solid, direct team so that argument is moot.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I think people need to realise the different between counter attacking football and parking the bus.....

What Chelsea did was parking the bus and parking the bus involves alot of luck and Chelsea got it big bloody deal every team that wins the CL has needed a considerable amount of luck.

Now Inter that won the CL were a counter attacking team, they hardly gave away any chances what so ever and counter attacked with efficiency and skill.

The two are completely different and should not be compared.

Also Chelsea are not the worse team to ever win the CL, Liverpool was a lot worse.

Also a top team cant play like Stoke because it isnt effective at the top level theres a difference between Stoke and defensively solid, direct team so that argument is moot.

What about in the Camp when Motta got sent off

That bus was so epic, it was almost a spectacle........

Le Samourai wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I think people need to realise the different between counter attacking football and parking the bus.....

What Chelsea did was parking the bus and parking the bus involves alot of luck and Chelsea got it big bloody deal every team that wins the CL has needed a considerable amount of luck.

Now Inter that won the CL were a counter attacking team, they hardly gave away any chances what so ever and counter attacked with efficiency and skill.

The two are completely different and should not be compared.

Also Chelsea are not the worse team to ever win the CL, Liverpool was a lot worse.

Also a top team cant play like Stoke because it isnt effective at the top level theres a difference between Stoke and defensively solid, direct team so that argument is moot.

What about in the Camp when Motta got sent off

That bus was so epic, it was almost a spectacle........

I knew someone would say that.

Inter parked because they were 3-1 in front at the home of the European champions.

They didnt go out purposely to park the bus from minute 1 to minute 90 like Chelsea did.

No hate it worked for them, but what Inter did was counter attack football not bus parking. ( except from when they got a lead against Barca)

Yea when Mou was on the helm in Inter it was a joy to watch parking the bus in the Camp Nou. Chelseas side wasnt good defensivly it had luck in it.

Zealous wrote:Cruyff is the guy who lost a final 4-0 , no other coach in European cup history can say this.

I bet he has a dvd of Barca's best plays that day as well. His view on football is so distorted he forgot what it's really about.

Stop copying Mourinho's words lol.
Mou can talk all the smack he wants to Cruyff....but Mourinho was never a player. So he should shut his mouth.

RED 80s. wrote:

_LMG_10_ wrote:I hate that people defend park-the-bus tactics.

Football is entertainment first and foremost. Unfortunately that has been lost on most people nowadays. It's only about trophies and winning.

in 20 years time, no one will remember how Chelsea played to win it. All they will know is that Chelsea have a CL trophy in their cabinet.

Playing good is just a bonus, winning is what's important.

You couldn't be more wrong about that. History will remember the special teams that won it, not each and every cup winner - there's just too many. Their names will be engraved in the trophy but that's about it.

Not to discredit Inter, but people dont' talk about them that much, and they were MUCH more attractive to watch than Chelsea.

Zealous wrote:I hate it when people pretend that winning isn't important.

I don't think anyone said that. We just said that winning isn't the only factor.

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Zealous wrote:Cruyff is the guy who lost a final 4-0 , no other coach in European cup history can say this.

I bet he has a dvd of Barca's best plays that day as well. His view on football is so distorted he forgot what it's really about.

Stop copying Mourinho's words lol.
Mou can talk all the smack he wants to Cruyff....but Mourinho was never a player. So he should shut his mouth.

You dont have to be a horse first in order to become a jockey

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Zealous wrote:I hate it when people pretend that winning isn't important.

I don't think anyone said that. We just said that winning isn't the only factor.

If you don't win the final then nothing else matters. That's my whole point.

Zealous wrote:

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Zealous wrote:I hate it when people pretend that winning isn't important.

I don't think anyone said that. We just said that winning isn't the only factor.

If you don't win the final then nothing else matters. That's my whole point.

Yes, it does. That's my whole point.

True fans of the club will be proud if the players put in 100% effort and had a good season overall but just came up short. If they provided "good entertaining football" and several glorious european nights in the champions league, the fans will appreciate. Humility, respect towards your opponents, sportsmanship, etc..
These are all factors that count in football.
Unfortunately for Jose, he has none of these.

Zealous wrote:Cruyff is the guy who lost a final 4-0 , no other coach in European cup history can say this.

I bet he has a dvd of Barca's best plays that day as well. His view on football is so distorted he forgot what it's really about.

Its funny because this is what he said before that game -

"Milan are nothing out of this world. They base their game on defence, we base ours on attack"

milan wins 4-0.... thats pretty funny

This thread is a load of bollocks. People using Inter need to get a grip. Inter demolished Barcelona in the first leg, and they were almost conned when Al pacino got Motta wrongly sent off. What else would you do? Inter parked the bus only after Motta got sent off. Chelsea used counter attack and trired to score. At the end of the day you create your own luck. The amount of bitter people here is unreal.

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Zealous wrote:

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Zealous wrote:I hate it when people pretend that winning isn't important.

I don't think anyone said that. We just said that winning isn't the only factor.

If you don't win the final then nothing else matters. That's my whole point.

Yes, it does. That's my whole point.

True fans of the club will be proud if the players put in 100% effort and had a good season overall but just came up short. If they provided "good entertaining football" and several glorious european nights in the champions league, the fans will appreciate. Humility, respect towards your opponents, sportsmanship, etc..
These are all factors that count in football.
Unfortunately for Jose, he has none of these.

So parking the bus = Not showing respect towards your opponent?

Parking the bus = Not being humble or lack of sportsmanship?

Parking the bus =/= 100% effort?

Stop contradicting yourself.

_LMG_10_ wrote:
Unfortunately for Jose, he has none of these.

Nor does he need them.

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Zealous wrote:

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Zealous wrote:I hate it when people pretend that winning isn't important.

I don't think anyone said that. We just said that winning isn't the only factor.

If you don't win the final then nothing else matters. That's my whole point.

Yes, it does. That's my whole point.

True fans of the club will be proud if the players put in 100% effort and had a good season overall but just came up short. If they provided "good entertaining football" and several glorious european nights in the champions league, the fans will appreciate. Humility, respect towards your opponents, sportsmanship, etc..
These are all factors that count in football.
Unfortunately for Jose, he has none of these.

Then Cruyff should shut his mouth. He had many traits but humilty, respect and sportsmanship were not one of them. And no "good entertaining football" means jack if you don't win the final. Bayern fans would have traded their style for the trophy in a heartbeat, most sane people would. However some people like to pretend they operate on a higher plane when in reality they are talking out of their ass Cruyff being the ultimate symbol of this. A man entrenched so deep in his own BS he supported Spain against his own country, I actually think his ego didn't want Holland to win the world cup because he never could.

I have no idea what Jose has to do with this lol

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Zealous wrote:

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Zealous wrote:I hate it when people pretend that winning isn't important.

I don't think anyone said that. We just said that winning isn't the only factor.

If you don't win the final then nothing else matters. That's my whole point.

Yes, it does. That's my whole point.

True fans of the club will be proud if the players put in 100% effort and had a good season overall but just came up short. If they provided "good entertaining football" and several glorious european nights in the champions league, the fans will appreciate. Humility, respect towards your opponents, sportsmanship, etc..
These are all factors that count in football.
Unfortunately for Jose, he has none of these.

I'm very proud of the players.I cried when Drogba scored the penalty.

You talk about respect yet it seems like you show no respect towards Chelsea for what they achieved,just because they didn't play the way you want teams to play.

Mourinho - "We didn't park the bus, we parked the airplane and we did it for two reasons. One, because we only had 10 men and two, because we beat them 3-1 at San Siro, not by parking the bus, or the boat or the airplane, but by smashing them at the San Siro."