Re: If Juve get a top striker, could we compete with the Top 3?

by jibers Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:44 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
jibers wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:Chelsea in top3 are you freakin' serious? *KSI's voice*

Bayern lost the final on penalties, how are they not in Top3

Real Madrid
Barcelona
Bayern München

Bayern would be higher if they won one a trophy.

OT: I don't think Juventus is a top3 side atm, but if Juve get a top striker and repeat a similar season they'll be up there for sure.

LOL at Chelsea not being a top 3, get a grip. They won the CL final and have been doing well in the competiton consistently for a long time. They won, end of story. Juventus aren't a top anything ffs, let them play in EUrope. We all know that Dortmund > than Bayern so where would you put Dortmund afer they smashed Never Munchen 5-2 ffs.

Right, a team that finished 6th in their very own league is a top3 team in Europe. Seems legit.

Funny how ther results seemed to improve with the NEW MANAGER. :facepalm:

European champions Rolling Eyes

yea seems legit...bitter Arsenal fan annoyed his team is no longer tyhe dogs bollocks in Lonodn...u mad brah?

by urbaNRoots Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:48 pm

jibers wrote:Funny how ther results seemed to improve with the NEW MANAGER.

European champions

yea seems legit...bitter Arsenal fan annoyed his team is no longer tyhe dogs bollocks in Lonodn...u mad brah?

When AVB was there Chelsea were 4th in the EPL, how much they improved Laughing

Arsenal has nothing to do with this so stop bringing them in this discussion.

by II Capitano Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:52 pm

I've always maintained that, if Juventus buy a world class striker or quality one, whichever way you look at it, they'll be more of an elite force. The current crop are just not good enough, in my opinion. Matri, Quagliarella, and Vucinic are so inconsistent. Although you can't blame Quagliarella because he has had a torrid time with injuries over the past year. The names being linked are Tevez and Dzeko, but I don't see either one of them leaving Manchester City. The latter is such a poor footballer nowadays, and hasn't improved on his overall ability, his work rate is incredibly poor, and wouldn't add that much. However, to a very limited extent, he is somewhat an upgrade.

I, also, maintain that Juventus have one of the best midfield partnerships in the world, with Pirlo and Isla incredibly underrated as a unit. They have a better midfield than most teams (including Manchester United's). With the additions of Asamoah and Pogba, Juventus can now afford to give their key assets a break.

I'm looking forward to watching Juventus next season, especially in Europe. They won't pose a major threat, but they have such a dominant team - that it's hard to let them slip under the radar.

by Le Samourai Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:02 am

Pirlo and Isla have never played a game together in their lives , but Underrated as a unit scratch

...something not right there.

I sincerely think they have the best midfield depth in the world and a well constructed defense...if they get a striker they will be better but I think the CL defines them, Milan is weaker Inter is relatively weak, the CL is where they have to achieve to prove themselves.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:07 am

Bayern got to 2 finals in 3 years, haters gonna hate :coffee:

Also Jibers, only Chelsea's cup results improved. The league results were not any better and arguably worse.

In any case Juve would be a serious challenger on paper if they got a top class forward in but they would have to prove it.

I'm going to sit on the fence on this one.

by juventus101 Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:12 am

Le Samourai wrote:Bayern

I think even arsenal with all the injuries and the short series of consecutive draws in January could still get Bundesliga done.

Coming from a La Liga fan. HAHAHA.

I guess youre mad that when you met Bayern in the semis, you got knocked out. Bayern came short on penalties which is all luck. They made it to 2 CL finals in the last 3 years. Give them a break, theyre clearly one of the Top 3 in the world, and in my opinion actually #1.

Anyways, back on topic, i think if we get a top striker, preferably Suarez, we could challenge every team in the world. I wouldnt be disappointed if we lost to guys like Bayern or Barca or Real, but i think we could definitely put up a fight. Especially cinsidering how well we did against Milan this season, who gave Barca loads of trouble.

by II Capitano Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:15 am

Le Samourai wrote:Pirlo and Isla have never played a game together in their lives , but Underrated as a unit ...something not right there.

I sincerely think they have the best midfield depth in the world and a well constructed defense...if they get a striker they will be better but I think the CL defines them, Milan is weaker Inter is relatively weak, the CL is where they have to achieve to prove themselves.

Sorry, I clearly meant Vidal. I was thinking of bringing up a point regarding Isla, in terms of how flexible Juventus can go now, they can play a 3-5-2, with Isla at right wing back.

I disagree. In terms of midfield depth, Real Madrid are loaded with quality. That might not be the case after the transfer window ends, but Xabi Alonso, Khedira, Sahin, Diarra, Granero, Kaka and potentially Modric is too much.

by Le Samourai Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:19 am

Diarra and Kaka are terrible , Sahin is treated terribly by the club...Granero is good and Khedira is decent...nothing amazing.

Assamoah, Isla, Padoin and Pogba to me is better.

They don't have a real replacemtnt for Pirlo but the versatility of everyone else there is scary.

by II Capitano Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:24 am

Le Samourai wrote:Diarra and Kaka are terrible , Sahin is treated terribly by the club...Granero is good and Khedira is decent...nothing amazing.

Assamoah, Isla, Padoin and Pogba to me is better.

I don't know about that. Maybe they might not have had great seasons last season, but they are still good players to have within a squad. Kaka impressed me whenever he played as a central midfielder last season, to be frank. Granero is/was a prospect, but isn't getting enough game time, do you remember how good he was against Barcelona in the Copa del Rey second leg? Khedira may not be amazing, but he complements Xabi Alonso well. When we talk about depth, it's not about the individual quality that counts, but the collective quality.

Asamoah is a different player to every Real Madrid midfielder, bar Xabi Alonso and Sahin, yet he's inferior to them. Good player, with the potential to become world class, but not better. Isla isn't really a central midfielder. Padoin, I have not watched a substantial amount of games, so it would be wrong to judge. And, Pogba is not better than any Real Madrid midfielder, maybe Diarra, but still very, very raw.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:31 am

Padoin is awful mate, Marrone and Pogba are much better than him.

Juventus have amazing depth in central midfield, let's see how they are used if Conte uses them correctly then they are better than Madrid's for me.

Reason being is because Mourinho doesn't use the depth he has as well as he could do.

It's almost like the depth is there for show, because he doesn't really use it.

by Le Samourai Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:32 am

Kaka affects the team dynamic, he's a good individual player but he really doesn;t fit with us, especially since Ozil is pushed out right to accommodate him.Hopefully he will be gone , so will Lass.

Granero is our best backup mid over the course of the season we played our best when we sacrificed a forward for Granero.

Khedira is decent enough not better than Marchisio or Vidal.

Assamoah to me is the defining factor he can play every role in Jue's midfield well and while Sahin may be a better player, what's the point if the Coach doesn't play you?

Mou sees Sahin as Xabi insurance and nothing more, so his influence will not be as great as Assamoahs.

Pogba is not even better than Alex.

Edit: Mole said it as best as I can say it.....the depth is there for show, we have our own Thiago is Castilla and he won't even see the pitch next season.It's useless.We have another World Class CM who will play about 1000 minutes at most.

by jibers Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:33 am

juventus101 wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:Bayern

I think even arsenal with all the injuries and the short series of consecutive draws in January could still get Bundesliga done.

Coming from a La Liga fan. HAHAHA.

I guess youre mad that when you met Bayern in the semis, you got knocked out. Bayern came short on penalties which is all luck. They made it to 2 CL finals in the last 3 years. Give them a break, theyre clearly one of the Top 3 in the world, and in my opinion actually #1.

Anyways, back on topic, i think if we get a top striker, preferably Suarez, we could challenge every team in the world. I wouldnt be disappointed if we lost to guys like Bayern or Barca or Real, but i think we could definitely put up a fight. Especially cinsidering how well we did against Milan this season, who gave Barca loads of trouble.

Yes Bayern are #1 with that stacked trophy cabinet. Face it you have something against spanish teams,and it's getti8ng embarrassing. There is no top 3, according to the last 6 years, the top teams in Europe are Bareclona, United, Chelsea, Bayern and MAdrid. Every team here has been in multiple finals bar Madrid. Spewing top 3 means sod all.

Barcelona: semis 08, Winner 09, semis 10, winner 11, semis 12
United: Winner 08, Final 09, QF, 10, Final 11, GStage 12
Chelsea: Final 08, Semis 09, 1st KO 10, QF 11, Winner 12
Bayern: - 08 , QF 09, FInal 10, 1stKO 11, Final 12.
Madrid: - 08, - 09, - 10, SF 11, SF 12

by Luca Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:50 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Padoin is awful mate, Marrone and Pogba are much better than him.

Juventus have amazing depth in central midfield, let's see how they are used if Conte uses them correctly then they are better than Madrid's for me.

Reason being is because Mourinho doesn't use the depth he has as well as he could do.

It's almost like the depth is there for show, because he doesn't really use it.

They'll be used. That position has been invested in more than any other position and that is for good reason. Juventus' play is very midfield dependent and they almost always play with three central midfielders in the form of Marchisio, Vidal and Pirlo.

The amount of pressing that Marchisio and Vidal have to do, there is no way they can play at 100% during the champions league and serie a. Conte expects a lot, so players like Asamoah and Marrone will see the field quite a bit.

Then there are really interesting players, like Isla who can play anywhere, the question is where will we see him. Pogba is another intriguing player. Bouy and Appelt have been talked up a lot too and remain with the primavera at the moment, they could also do some damage but might not see much time.

Anyways, on topic, no it will take more than a top striker to make Juventus a top 5 team in the world (not even going for top 3 right now). Could they compete? Sure, why not, depends what you mean by compete, Losing 1-0 on aggregate against Barcelona can be seen as 'competing' with a team like that, but it might not mean much.

by juventus101 Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:43 am

I have no hatred for the Spanish teams. I dislike the media overhyping of them, thats all. Barca being called the best team in history when theyre reliant on Messi and are clearly not the best of all time in my opinion. Xavi being called the best CM of all time while hes been reliant on first Ronaldinho, and then Messi. Barca and REAL still being called the 2 best in the world when Bayern clearly showed they were better than Real. The Spanish national team being called the best of all time which is insulting to many teams of the past. For the record, i used to actually like Barca, until they became this overhype train. And ive almost always liked Real. Still do. But Bayern are the best team in the world right now in my opinoin. I dont hate the Spanish teams though. I dislike Barca and Spain, but i have respect for Real.

by Le Samourai Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:40 am

Clearly showed...

Look, just because Mou is a coward and doen't like playing football with that much on the line doesn't mean that a loss on penalties means Bayern is infinitely superior to us.

You were better over both legs, but don't blow it out of proportion, especially considering the way we approached the game.

The best team in the world needs to win something, not get raped and pillaged by a team that sells it's best player at the end of every season.

by kiranr Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:54 am

juventus101 wrote:I have no hatred for the Spanish teams. I dislike the media overhyping of them, thats all. Barca being called the best team in history when theyre reliant on Messi and are clearly not the best of all time in my opinion. Xavi being called the best CM of all time while hes been reliant on first Ronaldinho, and then Messi. Barca and REAL still being called the 2 best in the world when Bayern clearly showed they were better than Real. The Spanish national team being called the best of all time which is insulting to many teams of the past. For the record, i used to actually like Barca, until they became this overhype train. And ive almost always liked Real. Still do. But Bayern are the best team in the world right now in my opinoin. I dont hate the Spanish teams though. I dislike Barca and Spain, but i have respect for Real.

But Messi, Xavi, Iniesta are among the greatest players the world has ever seen. And it has been signed, sealed and delivered by some of the greatest legends of football and their peers.

So, in this case, i have no hesitation in telling you that your opinion is wrong. It does not matter how many times you keep telling otherwise, Bayern is inferior to Barcelona and its players are inferior to Barcelona's.

There is just no doubt about this as it has been shown by the Euros, the world cup, the champions league and the domestic league over the past 5-6 years.

by juventus101 Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:58 am

Who sells their best player at the end of each season? You talking about Dortmund with Kagawa? Kagawa isnt their best player. Gotze is. and Hummels comes before him too in my opinion. And 1) Dortmund is a helluva lot stronger than everyone thinks, and in my opinion are the best pressing side in the world. And 2) Dortmund is just Bayerns kryptonite.

And Bayern won on penalties, but it was a very open game and theres absolutely no excuses for Madrid. By the way, the second leg shouldve ended 2-2, after Bayern were denied a clear penalty. Of course, its not a sure goal, but pretty much. This Bayern team , when it mattered, came up big and won against Real. The same Real who hoadDd just come up big and beat Barca.

by S Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:09 am

^^No offense mate your are overrating and c*ckriding Bayern so much that it is not even funny anymore..

They have done f*ck all to be considered the best team in Europe.None is going to take this opinion seriously.

by Swanhends Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:10 am

Juve will struggle just as Milan did at the first sign of a team pressing Pirlo, regardless of who their strikers are

by kiranr Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:14 am

Surag wrote:^^No offense mate your are overrating and c*ckriding Bayern so much that it is not even funny anymore..

They have done f*ck all to be considered the best team in Europe.None is going to take this opinion seriously.

Exactly. He is the most biased poster on Goallegacy. I have never seen anyone rate their team's players so much when they don't deserve it and have nothing, i repeat, nothing to show for their achievements.

Wrong opinion is just wrong especially when there is extremely feeble evidence supporting those claims. Who uses only one game to support his/her claims? :facepalm:

by juventus101 Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:16 am

Yes, Messi has been said to be one of the best players of all time by many peers. But the fact is, he needs to prove himself on the international stage. And where were Xavi and Iniesta in that time between Ronnie declining and Messi reaching his full potential? Oh yea, they were nowhere to be heard of. Or before Ronnie, as Xavis older now and has been around for a long time. Oh yea, nowhere again. Im not saying all 3 are not some of the best the world has ever seen, but Messi being called the best ever and Xavi/Iniesta the best CMs ever is a ioke, sorry. They have alot more to prove.

And last 5-6 years? Barcas been "dominating" since 09. Spain has been "dominating" since 08. 6 years ago was 06, Barca won the CL in 05-06 thanks to Ronnie carrying them. Then Ronnie declined/stopped trying and Xavi and Iniesta didnt do shit until Messi hit his prime in 09. Spain was nobodies until 08.

Now explain to me how Barca has proven themselves better than Bayern. By getting beat by the same team that Bayern beat (Real)? By beating Germany who were missing their best player off of a BS second yellow card, who were a counterattacking team at that time, and yet Spain still could only win from a one in a million flying Puyol header from a tactical defensive mistake. By barely getting past one of the weakest German teams in memory in 08, when Spain were arguably at their strongest? By Germany going through a terrible run of form before and during the Euro in 2012, and getting knocked out before they could play? Please, tell me. Cuz BARCA HAS NOT PROVEN ANYTHING AGAINST BAYERN. Stop giving into the hype.

And now Surag you say Bayern hasnt done anything to prove their the best side in the world. Im not "riding" Bayern at all. I just think theyre better than Barca and Real and they unfairly get no credit. Now what has Barca done? Get knccked out in the Semis of the CL? Bayern beat Real when it mattered, and Real beat Barca when it mattered. Do the math. Bayern also did better against Chelsea.

by juventus101 Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:18 am

And btw, im not biased. I just dont buy into the Barca hype.

BUT LETS NOT DERAIL THIS THREAD PLEASE. Make another thread for it if you want.

by kiranr Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:31 am

juventus101 wrote:And btw, im not biased. I just dont buy into the Barca hype.

BUT LETS NOT DERAIL THIS THREAD PLEASE. Make another thread for it if you want.

Barca hype is real. Get used to it.

And Juventus will do well in the CL and they will challenge the top teams. But they will need some more time before they can reach the final.

by 7amood11 Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:01 am

Even if we buy a top striker, I'm still uncertain on where we stand in Europe until we do something in the CL.

by II Capitano Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:59 pm

I stopped reading when he said Gotze is better than Kagawa. On what basis?

by jibers Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:38 pm

juventus101 wrote:Yes, Messi has been said to be one of the best players of all time by many peers. But the fact is, he needs to prove himself on the international stage. And where were Xavi and Iniesta in that time between Ronnie declining and Messi reaching his full potential?

Xavi was winning playmaker of the year in 08 years in a row so the BS of him not being recognised is a load of shite. If i rmemeber correctly he won it Oh yea, they were nowhere to be heard of. Or before Ronnie, as Xavis older now and has been around for a long time. Oh yea, nowhere again. Im not saying all 3 are not some of the best the world has ever seen, but Messi being called the best ever and Xavi/Iniesta the best CMs ever is a ioke, sorry. They have alot more to prove. Yes, Xavi and Iniesta have so much to prove, wining more trophies sequencially than any other footballers in history. Name me a mf that has dominated like theirs. Name me a mf that has been as successful for both club and country. Name me a bunch old players that have won more than those two in terms of trophy prestige. You can't and that is the truth. So I suppose Messi and Ronaldinho are also responsible for Spain's success now.

And last 5-6 years? Barcas been "dominating" since 09. Spain has been "dominating" since 08. 6 years ago was 06, Barca won the CL in 05-06 thanks to Ronnie carrying them. Then Ronnie declined/stopped trying and Xavi and Iniesta didnt do shit until Messi hit his prime in 09. Spain was nobodies until 08. Ronnie carried Barcelona so much that he flopped in that final and Larson had to sdave Barcelona, but carry on. Same as pirlo carrying Juventus eh. Pipe down. Messi hasn't hit his prime. He was injury prone before 09, and Pepe based the team around Xavi and inesta, same as Luis Aragones. Hence why Barcelon and Spian became more successful. What is the common denominator? Yes, it is not messi, it is Xavi, get over your pathetic jelousy. Nobodies? Spain were known as the perenial under achiever because they constantly reached Semis and QF but lacked the killer blow you mug.

Now explain to me how Barca has proven themselves better than Bayern. By getting beat by the same team that Bayern beat (Real)? By beating Germany who were missing their best player off of a BS second yellow card, who were a counterattacking team at that time, and yet Spain still could only win from a one in a million flying Puyol header from a tactical defensive mistake. By barely getting past one of the weakest German teams in memory in 08, when Spain were arguably at their strongest? By Germany going through a terrible run of form before and during the Euro in 2012, and getting knocked out before they could play? Please, tell me. Cuz BARCA HAS NOT PROVEN ANYTHING AGAINST BAYERN. Stop giving into the hype.

Why should they prove anything against Bayern? The last time they faced in 09, it was 4-0 in the first half with scarface Ribery in tears having to be comforted by Henry. League and CL have nothing to do with each other. Evidnece by Dortmund humiliating Bayern for 2 years in a row. CL is about experience. By that logic Barcelona beat Madrid over the two legs in the league by GD so they are better seeing as Bayern needed penalties. Barcelona also beat MAdrid in the supercups over two legs and the spanish cup over two legs, all not needing penalties. While Bayern are getting their asses handed to them by Dortmund. Makes Madrids failures in the previous years look light weight in comparison as this Barcelona team is arguably the best of all time. So you keep making up excuses for Germans? And so Spain beat them twice and the 'tactical' error is what seperates the best from the rest, it is part of football. In that game, Germany did nothing (wc 2010) because SPain pinned them back and prevented them for countering. Klose even said after the game that when they got the ball their legs were gone bacsue they were chasing shadows all game long, but I suppose you know better than a aman that actually played the game.

And now Surag you say Bayern hasnt done anything to prove their the best side in the world. Im not "riding" Bayern at all. I just think theyre better than Barca and Real and they unfairly get no credit. Now what has Barca done? Get knccked out in the Semis of the CL? Bayern beat Real when it mattered, and Real beat Barca when it mattered. Do the math. Bayern also did better against Chelsea.
Bayern arent the best at anything. They came second best in every major competition ffs. They WON nothing. Trophies are the only objective barometer for success. Bayern won nothoing so they are nobodies. Again using your clown logic, so Dortmund humiliated Bayern, does that make them better than Real and Barcelona? You can't have it both ways. Your bias is astounding to the point of stupidity. So Bayern did 'better' against Chelsea and what do they have to show for it? 0 trophies and the Never-Munchen tag name. Get a grip. So they beatv MAdrid on penalties you rave about them. They did betetr against chelsea but lose and arse still the best. Get a grip. Second best in their country, second best in cl. Not the best overall. Doesnt make any sense. Barcelona won the copa, CWC, spanish and European supercups, Amdrid won La liga. What do they both have in commmon that Byern don't? You guessed, trophies!

Next thing you'll tell me that Juventus are better than Barcelona.

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