Re: Guardiola to Bayern

by S Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:42 am

I just dont understand why people need to take it as negative criticism when one says they find that particular team 'great' to watch.

Arent the Italians consistently criticized for their defensive style ? There are not many people getting upset about it.Winning is all that matters at the end of the day.

This is a totally subjective topic anyway,seems like people took it the wrong way.I personally prefer Dortmund's style of football much more.

by harhar11 Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:51 am

S wrote:This was not a reaction to the Arsenal game.And i can totally understand where Beckenbauer is coming from ,he's speaking in general regarding Bayern's games this season and i totally agree with him.

Jupp Heynckes' team was far more direct than this team and far more enjoyable as well.I watched a lot of Bayern's games in the past few years and i generally found it entertaining.

And its nothing to do with the defensive setup of teams either.If anything BL teams tend to be more open which is why they end up getting raped against top class teams i guess.

Again this is my opinion,no need to get so upset about it.I dint find Barca entertaining to watch so i ignored their games most of the time.I'm doing the same with Bayern unless it involves big games in CL.

Under Heynckes they were more direct because teams gave them more space to be direct, which teams have started to realise is not that good, hence why they are starting to set up very defensively against them .

Whenever a team faces a team who uses catenaccio, if the attacking team does not score early, most games will be a very boring one. Just look at Real Madrid, arguably the most direct team in the world. Whenever they play against a team who puts 10 players inside their own penalty area, my god, they are so fcking boooooooring. Barely creates any chances, play with no imagination etc. Now, image if Real Madrid would have to play against a 10 man wall in every game. That's what happends to Barca and is starting to happend to Bayern.

Whenever Bayern faces a team that plays open football, they play brilliant football. ffs, they scored 4 goals in 28 or so minutes against Schalke, and could have won that game by 10 or more. No way was that boring..

And I don't understand this part of your post

.If anything BL teams tend to be more open which is why they end up getting raped against top class teams i guess.

Are you acknowledging that whenever a team doesn't play defensively against them, Bayern score alot of goals? And isn't that entertaining?

PS: Also, we are not upset. I just find it illogical to blame the attacking team for making a game boring, when there is a team who has 10 players on their own half trying to close down space in order to stop them..

by DeletedUser#1 Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:54 am

S wrote:This was not a reaction to the Arsenal game.And i can totally understand where Beckenbauer is coming from ,he's speaking in general regarding Bayern's games this season and i totally agree with him.

Jupp Heynckes' team was far more direct than this team and far more enjoyable as well.I watched a lot of Bayern's games in the past few years and i generally found it entertaining.

And its nothing to do with the defensive setup of teams either.If anything BL teams tend to be more open which is why they end up getting raped against top class teams i guess.

Again this is my opinion,no need to get so upset about it.I dint find Barca entertaining to watch so i ignored their games most of the time.I'm doing the same with Bayern unless it involves big games in CL.

Jump on the Liverpool entertainment wagon mate, before it gets too main stream next season. Never a boring game Proud

Agreed with Kaiser and with Pep. They are both right.

by Zealous Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:59 am

Boring doesn't mean bad guys geez.

In any case Arsenal were to blame for yesterday's boring spells, Bayern had no incentive to change what they were doing.

With regards to Beckenbauer's remarks I personally think he has a point. Control is important but not to the point where you are afraid of releasing some of it to ensure that that there is space for your players to show their talents.

You can still lose games you are in full control of, so why not keep it a bit open for some periods? Especially when you have great individual talent on your roster.

Of course if you keep winning then there really is no need to change it but I personally believe if you commit to strongly to one style of play you open yourself up for counter strategies.

by S Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:13 pm

harhar11 wrote:Under Heynckes they were more direct because teams gave them more space to be direct, which teams have started to realise is not that good, hence why they are starting to set up very defensively against them .

In CL or BL ? Because its never been the case in BL.Look at Van Gaal's and Heynckes' Bayern and they always had a very direct approach unlike this Bayern(where they have scored a lot of goals credit to them) but more often than not i have seen them recycling useless possession at the half way line,the usual sideways and back-passing.

And this is purely down to Guardiola's philosophy,i dont know why you keep mentioning defensive setup.Guardiola doesnt like his team to lose the ball or rather he always wants his team to have the ball..

Saying the difference in style between Heynckes/Van Gaal's team and Pep's team is down to defensive setups of the opposition is one huge myth.

by S Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:23 pm

You could say its one way of conserving energy also(by not attacking much) and recycle possession in your own box just to keep their players fresh for the upcoming games.Maybe it can be considered as a good tactic. Laughing

by Zealous Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:25 pm

"All you need to play good football is two bollocks and a ball" - Rayo manager Paco Jemez

Rayo beat La Real 2-3 at Anoeta the next day.

:bow:

by Winter is Coming Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:34 pm

S wrote:I just dont understand why people need to take it as negative criticism when one says they find that particular team 'great' to watch.

Arent the Italians consistently criticized for their defensive style ? There are not many people getting upset about it.Winning is all that matters at the end of the day.

This is a totally subjective topic anyway,seems like people took it the wrong way.I personally prefer Dortmund's style of football much more.

I don't have a problem with criticism at all, but its the way most people make them. Bayern have been playing like this since the start, so all of a sudden Franz decided to come out now and criticize them after a poor performance against Arsenal? When they're wrecking teams in the BL it was ok, when they outclassed City in England it was fantastic, but now all of a sudden its boring? Every style of play has its boring sides, direct football isn't all entertaining either.

by harhar11 Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:37 pm

S wrote:
harhar11 wrote:Under Heynckes they were more direct because teams gave them more space to be direct, which teams have started to realise is not that good, hence why they are starting to set up very defensively against them .

In CL or BL ? Because its never been the case in BL.Look at Van Gaal's and Heynckes' Bayern and they always had a very direct approach unlike this Bayern(where they have scored a lot of goals credit to them) but more often than not i have seen them recycling useless possession at the half way line,the usual sideways and back-passing.

And this is purely down to Guardiola's philosophy,i dont know why you keep mentioning defensive setup.Guardiola doesnt like his team to lose the ball or rather he always wants his team to have the ball..

Saying the difference in style between Heynckes/Van Gaal's team and Pep's team is down to defensive setups of the opposition is one huge myth.

So let's see, Bayern this season in bundesliga have scored 72 goals in 24 games, with an average of 3 goals per games. Last season they scored 98 goals in 34 games with an average of 2.8 goals per game. This more direct style, what good is it if they score less and how is it more entertaining? Just because they shoot more even though they score less? Yeah, I don't see how that's more entertaining. Seriously, I honestly don't see how a game can be more entertaining and effecient if a CB takes a useless shot from distance without a chance of scoring(which is what Beckenbauer said was his prefered style). The only thing that might do is give possession to the defending team so that they can counter-attack.

And the reason why I am talking about defensive setup's, is because that's the biggest reason why teams are FORCED to make alot of sideways passing..

by McAgger Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:38 pm

Is anyone else going to bring up Pep's Moyesie tactics, wtf was with the constant crossing last night?

by Zealous Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:41 pm

McAgger wrote:Is anyone else going to bring up Pep's Moyesie tactics, wtf was with the constant crossing last night?

Moyes was ahead of the curve all along hmm

by Hapless_Hans Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:39 pm

I hope we stay boring for a long time to come

by Onyx Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:21 pm

Bayern do shoot from far out when they have the chance. They cross, they play it long when they can etc. They're not just a pure possession side with no directness.

Compared to Pep's Barca though, they're not as entertaining with possession. There's bit of the movement, however last night it was mainly basic possession.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:28 pm

Yesterday our final passes were painfully bad tbh, and we were very sluggish over some stretches, especially in the second half.
The fact is though that probably the fewest of you actually watch our Bundesliga matches, so I'd say most of you don't really know what they're talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for Beckenbauer, he only deals in football platitudes and clishees these days, he never says anything that has any kind of actual thoughtfulness.
Of course there's always SOME kind of 'truth' to it, better to call it 'truthiness' though, because basically he's just babbling while sitting comfortably in a TV studio.

by REWB Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:56 pm

all the criticism some of the german press labeled at pep was legit, turned a powerful winning machine into some joke. awful tactics by him, soo open on the counter attack, ticki taka doesnt work with the players bayern have, so he should have played to bayerns strengths :facepalm:

bayern have even been lucky to get this far imo, if man utd took their chances they would have knocked bayern out.

with pep still as bayern manager, next season dortmund will win bundesliga.

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:14 pm

Yes let's put the entire blame on the man grieving for his best friend's death, nevermind that he won the league in March :facepalm:

by The_Badger Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:16 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Yes let's put the entire blame on the man grieving for his best friend's death, nevermind that he won the league in March

It's the typical knee-jerk reactions that we get on here.

Lose a game; the manager, team and star players are finished/overrated/can't do it against the top sides.

by Art Morte Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:19 pm

So, has Guardiola's season been a success for winning the Bundesliga in record time or a failure for losing this badly in the CL semis? Or something from between?

by guest7 Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:20 pm

Art Morte wrote:So, has Guardiola's season been a success for winning the Bundesliga in record time or a failure for losing this badly in the CL semis? Or something from between?

Failure because even bayern knows they should walk the league qwith any manager. also because htey were the best team in the world and just got humiliated 3-0

by The_Badger Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:22 pm

They've won three pots this season already and you're calling it a failure?! rofl

by Blue Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:50 pm

The_Badger wrote:They've won three pots this season already and you're calling it a failure?!

Bayern of last season was arguably the best side i have ever seen Imo, this team is literally a shadow of that side.

The only thing that has changed is the manager, and oh yeah they added a star in Goetze.

by I Have Mono Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:57 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
People can bitch and moan all the like but at the end of the day Pep is going to win his 3rd CL this year before the age of 45.

by REWB Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:15 pm

mole

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:30 pm

Art Morte wrote:So, has Guardiola's season been a success for winning the Bundesliga in record time or a failure for losing this badly in the CL semis? Or something from between?

I'd say league + CL semis is a success for any club, no matter how high the expectations are. No team has ever managed to win 2 CLs in a row.

by zigra Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:49 pm

Blue wrote:
The_Badger wrote:They've won three pots this season already and you're calling it a failure?!

Bayern of last season was arguably the best side i have ever seen Imo, this team is literally a shadow of that side.

The only thing that has changed is the manager, and oh yeah they added a star in Goetze.

You just overrated Bayern from last year like people always do when they talk about the greatest teams in history (which they were).
Lucky early goal against Juventus that made the tie so much easier. Could've gone out against Arsenal at home. Lucky with the referee in the first tie against Barcelona. Lucky not to go down to 10 men in the CL final and of course they only scored a last second winner.
As I said Bayern '13 was one of the greatest teams in history but that doesn't mean they were perfect or even close to perfect.
It's just that football is often decided by small margins even if the outcome might not look like that. Bayern could've scored right before the 1-0 in Madrid. They could've sat back after that and Real Madrid might've struggled. If Arsenal score a goal from the late chance last season Bayern is out of the CL early and no one thinks of them as one of the greatest teams. That's football. Cup football.

by Art Morte Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:56 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Art Morte wrote:So, has Guardiola's season been a success for winning the Bundesliga in record time or a failure for losing this badly in the CL semis? Or something from between?

I'd say league + CL semis is a success for any club, no matter how high the expectations are. No team has ever managed to win 2 CLs in a row.

Mm, perhaps. On the other hand, no disrespect to Arsenal or Manchester United - whom Bayern beat in the previous rounds, this was the first real big test of Bayern's season (winning the Bundesliga was always inevitable) and they lost 5 - 0 without once looking good. Their season sort of feels like they did the bare minimum - although winning the Bundesliga in such a convincing fashion might still tilt the balance to Bayern's and Guardiola's favour.

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