Guardiola to Bayern

Fuzzyball, while I can't argue your knowledge of Barcelona due to you knowing more than me on that matter, you are making it seem like Pep is a better version of Juanma Lilo.

To which I really disagree (you are also ruining my image of Pep )

Oh, this one of those examples where people proclaim the "lesser" of the two to be the actual talent?

Like the Gervais/Merchant comedy partnership?

Pep and Tito were like Steve Jobs and Steve Woz then
Pep even dressed as Jobs today.

Doc wrote:Fuzzyball, while I can't argue your knowledge of Barcelona due to you knowing more than me on that matter, you are making it seem like Pep is a better version of Juanma Lilo.

To which I really disagree (you are also ruining my image of Pep )

I'm just hoping some Bayern representatives read this and sack Pep so he can come back where he belongs.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Yes let's put the entire blame on the man grieving for his best friend's death, nevermind that he won the league in March

Yeah, one bad (OK, it was stupendous) result and he is shit. Don't bother about the dozen or so trophies he won in last 4-5 years (with a year's break).

didnt get to see the game but, i thought guardiola would make bayern play patient game. seems like they are just way too exposed in the highlights.

I better avoid this forum for some days . II'd rather sleep than read all that nonsense in some posts such as

'' Pep is the worse coach i've ever seen ''

or post implying that Pep didn't do much at Barca actually because '' he had Messi Xaviesta ''

Pep is a great manager and coach, but I have my doubts as him as a tactician. He has never really been able to adjust if his gameplan doesn't work. And it's harder to pull through a tough game, when it doesn't work, when you don't have a top 5 all time player like Messi.

zigra wrote:

Art Morte wrote:

zigra wrote:

How many teams would've been a real test? English teams are all crap apart from maybe Chelsea and we don't even have to talk about italian teams. Barcelona is finished and Paris overrated as hell and we don't really expect Dortmund to beat Bayern. So we have Real Madrid. Maybe Chelsea, maybe Atletico. That's not a lot is it?

No, there's not many top teams when looking at the highest level of the pyramid, but the thing is that Bayern are part of that very highest level. Yet when facing another team from there, they deservedly lose 5 - 0. That seems quite the big drop when just last season they won the competition in a very convincing fashion.

5-0 is a lot but it's not as if Real was "5-0 better" than Bayern just like Bayern wasn't "7-0 better" than Barcelona. There are always some crucial points. A bit more luck and Bayern scores in the first tie which means they can play the home game in a completely different fashion. Today after they go down 2-0 they know it's over. Morale is down and many players don't belive they can change the outcome while Real Madrid players feel like Super-Saiyajins. It's always hard to play a good match after such a situation.

Real Madrid absolutely deserved to go through and were the better team but even though they won 5-0 I still wouldn't say Bayern couldn't beat them just aswell if they were to play against each other in 2 weeks once more.

That's too much iffing. "With a bit more luck", "if they played again in 2 weeks".

I don't mean to dramatize this all thing too much and, like Alfred said before, winning the domestic league and a place in the CL semis is, on paper, a success for any club. I just can't help thinking that for this Bayern Munich side it was also a bare minimum achievement.

Winning the Bundesliga was always expected in the current situation.
Progressing from the CL group stage was a minimum requirement.
Beating Arsenal and Manchester United teams of 2014 in the previous rounds was always expected.
The first real test, no matter how you look at the scoreline, and Bayern were wank.

Anyway, this means that next season will now be a very big season for Pep. He must be the best in Germany again, but also will be expected to put up more of a fight when facing another team from the very top tier in the CL.

Pep the worst coach ever   
invite people, they can only hear it here   

Art Morte wrote:

zigra wrote:

Art Morte wrote:

No, there's not many top teams when looking at the highest level of the pyramid, but the thing is that Bayern are part of that very highest level. Yet when facing another team from there, they deservedly lose 5 - 0. That seems quite the big drop when just last season they won the competition in a very convincing fashion.

5-0 is a lot but it's not as if Real was "5-0 better" than Bayern just like Bayern wasn't "7-0 better" than Barcelona. There are always some crucial points. A bit more luck and Bayern scores in the first tie which means they can play the home game in a completely different fashion. Today after they go down 2-0 they know it's over. Morale is down and many players don't belive they can change the outcome while Real Madrid players feel like Super-Saiyajins. It's always hard to play a good match after such a situation.

Real Madrid absolutely deserved to go through and were the better team but even though they won 5-0 I still wouldn't say Bayern couldn't beat them just aswell if they were to play against each other in 2 weeks once more.

That's too much iffing. "With a bit more luck", "if they played again in 2 weeks".

I don't mean to dramatize this all thing too much and, like Alfred said before, winning the domestic league and a place in the CL semis is, on paper, a success for any club. I just can't help thinking that for this Bayern Munich side it was also a bare minimum achievement.

Winning the Bundesliga was always expected in the current situation.
Progressing from the CL group stage was a minimum requirement.
Beating Arsenal and Manchester United teams of 2014 in the previous rounds was always expected.
The first real test, no matter how you look at the scoreline, and Bayern were wank.

Anyway, this means that next season will now be a very big season for Pep. He must be the best in Germany again, but also will be expected to put up more of a fight when facing another team from the very top tier in the CL.

It's probably a lot of iffing but that's football. Anyway all I wanted to say is that the scoreline doesn't always tell the whole story. Bayern conceding a few more goal after the tie was done makes it look more one sided than it actually was. Bayern still wasn't good enough but it's not like they looked completely clueless in the tie. They just lost early which can happen.

But I can't really agree with the rest. Just because you expect something doesn't mean it will certainly happen. People expect a lot of things. You always had to expect Ancelotti to finish above Atletico or Mourinho to finish above Liverpool just to mention two world class coaches this season.

Guardiola imo did what could be expected from him and what was expected from him by people who don't need to hype people up. Not more, yes. That's true. But nothing less either. Usually doing what's expected is a success not a failure.

Anyone find a post-match Guardiola interview with English subtitles or captions? I would like to hear his comments after the match.

VivaStPauli wrote:BTW be honest Madrid fans - you're rooting for Bayern for the rest of this season now, aren't you?

Because if Heynckes wins the treble, Pep has like a 80% chance to have his first season "suck" in comparison, and you'll be free to hate on Guardiola for an entire season.

Go nuts.
I'm right there with you, agent Pep has almost accomplished his mission, now one more season selling dependable players like Gustavo, bring in a few more injury-prone diving divas, and you're ready to roll, Bayern will finally be out of all competitions, and Spanish football will reign supreme, just like Pep always dreamed it would happen.

_LMG_10_ wrote:Anyone find a post-match Guardiola interview with English subtitles or captions? I would like to hear his comments after the match.

He basically said they lost because they took too many risks and didn't put enough emphasis on possession. We all had a good, hearty laugh about it.

I loved his post match comments after the first leg a lot more.

"I didn't want to play a typical German end-to-end game."

Agent Pep.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27253564

"I have my ideas and I have to convince my players," said Guardiola, whose team dominated possession in both games against Madrid without scoring.

"Following this defeat I am even more convinced of my philosophy."

He's a stubborn one.

pedram pls remove your sig rape is not allowed on this forum

He is not stubborn, he has his ideas, and the last thing he should be doing is listening to other people telling him how he should play footy. Bayern by the way, have no right to ask him to change because they knew exactly who they were hiring in the first place. If they are not happy, he will go, and 99% of teams out there will beg him to coach them.

There is no right way to coach, people need to stop. This very same bayern, with thiago and gotze protected by Javi and Lewa leading the line, could look entirely different.

Bayern got whooped ok, but next year they will be in semis again, they are still the top 1% of football. And british medias trying to present that loss to madrid as if bayern had become a 3rd world team is laughable. truth is, they cant stand that football is other countries is so ahead, and they are stagnating.

There is a wrong way to coach, though: the one without a Plan B.

Mr Nick09 wrote:He is not stubborn, he has his ideas, and the last thing he should be doing is listening to other people telling him how he should play footy. Bayern by the way, have no right to ask him to change because they knew exactly who they were hiring in the first place. If they are not happy, he will go, and 99% of teams out there will beg him to coach them.

There is no right way to coach, people need to stop. This very same bayern, with thiago and gotze protected by Javi and Lewa leading the line, could look entirely different.

Bayern got whooped ok, but next year they will be in semis again, they are still the top 1% of football. And british medias trying to present that loss to madrid as if bayern had become a 3rd world team is laughable. truth is, they cant stand that football is other countries is so ahead, and they are stagnating.

And that is exactly why noone at the club is telling him to change his approach.
If anything, Rummenigge and Sammer have praised him over and over in superlative terms and said they want him to extend etc pp

Pep deserves criticism, because we played bad.

But if you look closely, this defeat against Madrid isn't necessarily the loss of one 'system' or 'philosophy' against another.
Of course if you get spanked like we did, everything you did will look stupid, and we looked stupid.

But neither the goal in Madrid nor the first two we got at home were due to being outcountered.
They were due simply to bad defending.
FFS, the first two goals in the return leg were headers from a corner and a free kick, by Ramos :faceplam:

It's not like we got killed by the pacy counters of Bale and Ronaldo.
Later we did, of course, but after the 0:1 we already had to throw all caution overboard, so then a counter like the 0:3 can happen. 0:4 was a freekick AGAIN.

What needs to be critizised is why we were so bad at executing our play, it's not a problem of philosophy, but of quality. Our players didn't play with quality, because they all dropped in form.

Of course Pep has to answer for that, too, but given how we coasted along until early spring it's not that hard to see how something like that can happen.

If you have a plan B which is so good, make it your plan A.

Cant believe this myth still exists

but when he whooped the whole of europe with only one plan that wasnt an issue was it? Coaches are very much like players i think. Some have unstoppable skills they will go to all the time, and most of the time it will work, like Robben. Some only specialize in some aspects of the game and try to be the best at it without concern for other parts of the game. Others try to become as well rounded as they can, they try to develop many skills.

Managers are like that, Guardiola is just at the very extreme of the guy who thinks one way, and maybe because he won so much with barca, is now convinced it's the only way for him. If he had struggled, maybe he would have learned other things to compensate.

To me the biggest challenge of pep, and potentially what will ruin him, is the way he phases out the players he doesnt want anymore. Because that might include the likes of Schweinsteiger, Ribery/Robben, Kroos...

The turnover was probably the biggest weakness of this bayern team if i look back, players never settled into roles and that hurt them the most at the most important moment of their season. At barca he had a very entrenched first xi that pretty much never changed in big games.

VivaStPauli wrote:There is a wrong way to coach, though: the one without a Plan B.

I don't really know where everyone would get the idea from that Pep forbids crossing or shooting from outside.

In truth, in our MOST CLUELESS passages, against Utd as well as against Real, ALL WE DID was cross high and try to shoot from outside.

The ONLY time we were coming close to being dangerous was when we COMBINED with speed. We just didn't manage to do that very much.

Oh yes, dem high crosses were really horrible. What happened there? It looked like they were all passing to a player that wasn't there.

The Franchise wrote:If you have a plan B which is so good, make it your plan A.

Cant believe this myth still exists

Definitely a myth

But when "Plan A" has the potential to be so impotent offensively as well as exposing defensive weaknesses you can't blame people for suggesting that they play differently.

EDIT: Oh I guess trying to get players sent off can be considered Pep's plan B. Problem is he doesn't have Busquets on his team any more with that subtle skill. Instead Ribery and Mandzukic tried to provoke fights all night