Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread

by Chumlum Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:00 pm

Wilson37 wrote:guys.. any chance that Suarez bid was a tactic.. i know that we dont resolve to such tactics.. but ?

personally, i am also against Suarez transfer as for all the reasons Sri mentioned.. too risky of a player to have at our club maintaining our class.. diver, cheater, racist, biter,... and what not ?

and i would close my eyes blindly and give Madrid 30 million for Higuain than paying 40 for Suarez..

This is a long read and maybe a little repetitive so just skip it if you're so inclined.

People say things like "Suarez is WC, he wins you games on his own, he is clearly far superior to Higuain." But nobody ever really goes in detail about what they mean by any of this - I have said many times that Suarez is of course a player capable of amazing things, but he does have shortcomings to his game. When asked to provide rebuttals, his biggest advocates mostly seem to offer platitudes.

Maybe I sound like a broken record, but Arsenal fans who think Suarez is somehow obviously a far far better choice than Higuain really, truly should look at a couple articles on 7amkickoff.

http://www.7amkickoff.com/2013/top-reasons-why-suarez-cant-be-an-arsenal-target-plus-numbers-comparing-him-to-higuain/

Suarez is inefficient: last season his shots on goal percentage was 39% (as opposed to Higuain at 55%), his dribbled attempted was 291 but successful dribbled was only 95. (Higuain attempted 45, achieved 20.) He turned the ball over 79 times (versus Higgy's 32). And while Suarez definitely scored more goals than Higuain (23 vs 16), he also played over 1200 extra minutes! And they both had five assists. If Suarez is truly so much more creative than Higuain, wouldn't he be able to notch up just a couple extra assists in those 1200 extra minutes on the pitch?

It's also worth looking at this article about "game winning goals." http://www.7amkickoff.com/2013/game-winning-goals-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-cazorla/ You might not agree with 7amkickoff's methods or definitions here, and that's cool. But it is something to consider when trotting out the platitude about Suarez being a player who "wins you games on his own," because in some circumstances he can be shown to fail at this. What then is ultimately meant by this phrase? For instance Gareth Bale, much as I hate him, is a player who has recently excelled at winning his team games on his own. Suarez pales in comparison.

Stats are not everything of course. In fact I think that sometimes people make too big a deal about stats, and football is not a sport as conducive to stats as e.g. baseball. But they obviously can be useful, and they can help us take a step back and be rational without resorting to platitudes and gross generalizations.

I don't say any of this to denigrate Suarez's talent or to say he's rubbish or even overrated. Not at all. I do honestly think that he's an elite player, and yes it's unfortunate we don't get to see him do his thing in the Champions League. But I also think there are some rough patches to his game that his cheerleaders turn a big blind eye towards. Even if you think Suarez is, in the end, a better player than Higuain - and that's a perfectly reasonable position - he is still definitely more wasteful, less clinical.

Combine that with his a proven track record of horrible decision-making leading to red cards, bans, and controversy. Plus England isn't his favorite place. Now compare next to Higuain, who is not a scrub (his solid goal returns for Madrid & Argentina attest) who comports himself as a real pro, and is likely to be substantially less expensive (which could allow greater funds for investment elsewhere). I'm just sayin' ...

by RealGunner Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:00 pm

Samuelj29060 wrote:So, as of today, 13th July, our starting XI and bench reads:

Szczesny; Sagna Mertesacker Koscielny Gibbs; Arteta Wilshere; Walcott Cazorla Podolski; Giroud

Fabianski, Vermaelen, Monreal, Ramsey, Rosicky, Chamberlain, Sanogo*

*Assuming Gervinho does indeed go to Roma, and Chamakh/Park/Bendtner all go, Diaby injured*

Obviously, we're (hopefully!) going to be adding 2-3 big players to the squad, but looking at that XI and bench, we would struggle to finish top 4 again should we not add. Looking at the squad above, I'm still a little surprised we did in fact finish in top 4 - not saying Spurs, Pool were stronger or anything, they aren't, but squad just looked so weak compared to previous years.

Thoughts?

Last season i really did think we won't finish in the top 4 but we grinded and grinded and it worked. But as you said, it won't work every season, specially with the other teams aiming for the top 4 that have already started strengthening and have a team as good as us if not better.

Our current team can finish 4th/5th/6th depending on form/injuries etc. That is why it is essential to get 3-4 top players who will help us win trophies. 4th should never be an aim for a club like us.

by Chumlum Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:05 pm

RealGunner wrote:Our current team can finish 4th/5th/6th depending on form/injuries etc. That is why it is essential to get 3-4 top players who will help us win trophies. 4th should never be an aim for a club like us.

The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread - Page 2 Ali-g-respect-o

by SamuelJayC Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:21 pm

Sky Italia: QPR keeper Júlio César's loan move to Napoli imminent. @SkyBet have also suspended betting. #afc

by Sri Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:23 pm

Chumlum

for that Suarez post

by Raptorgunner Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:58 pm

In no way I am ok with spending huge money on Suarez and still have no respect for him. Is not every player we sign a risk? RVP was as bad as Suarez imo, look what he did to us. I dont see Suarez and Cesc at Arsenal, even though the media keeps bringing them up. I dont want Rooney either his wages will cause problems for the rest of the players.

look at our history, whenever we had a hothead we won trophies(Viera, Keown, Adams). If we cant get Higuain I would not mind Suarez no mater what anyone says.

by sportsczy Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:01 pm

Let's clarify a few things... Suarez is miles more creative than Higuain, although Higuain is not terrible. But unless Higuain is making runs in the box, you're wasting him.

HOWEVER, Higuain is the much more lethal scorer. More often than not, he'll bury a chance when he gets it. The knock on him has been big games and CL.

Personally, i blame any inconsistency by both Higuain and Benzema on choppy playing time and lack of positive reinforcement. A CF has to feel confident. It was hard for either to feel confident in the rotation environment at Madrid.

If you need a player that can create his own opportunities... Suarez all day and every day. If you have creativity and want a very good box goal scorer... Higuain all day and every day.

Just depends what you're looking for.

Seeing how Giroud lacked service last year and he's also a box player, i honestly don't know which one would serve Arsenal better.

by Chumlum Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:11 pm

sportsczy wrote:Let's clarify a few things... Suarez is miles more creative than Higuain, although Higuain is not terrible. But unless Higuain is making runs in the box, you're wasting him.

HOWEVER, Higuain is the much more lethal scorer. More often than not, he'll bury a chance when he gets it. The knock on him has been big games and CL.

Personally, i blame any inconsistency by both Higuain and Benzema on choppy playing time and lack of positive reinforcement. A CF has to feel confident. It was hard for either to feel confident in the rotation environment at Madrid.

If you need a player that can create his own opportunities... Suarez all day and every day. If you have creativity and want a very good box goal scorer... Higuain all day and every day.

Just depends what you're looking for.

Seeing how Giroud lacked service last year and he's also a box player, i honestly don't know which one would serve Arsenal better.

These are good & fair points. Though I prefer Higuain to Suarez in terms of which I'd rather have come to Arsenal, I'm not a fanboy of his and don't think that he's everything we could possibly hope for in a striker. (I don't think a striker like this is even on the market for Arsenal. RvP was pretty close to perfect for us, sadly.) There are flaws for every possibility, including the expensive ones. Rooney and Jovetic, back when people were talking about them as Arsenal targets, offered their own array of strengths as well as risks & weaknesses.

With pursuit of a player like Grenier or (if reports are true) Bernard, it looks like Wenger is interested in a little creative reinforcement in attacking midfield or on the flanks, in which case this might serve Higuain/Giroud a little better than Giroud (as effectively our sole lone striker this past year) was served.

by Raptorgunner Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:12 pm

Wenger was predictably asked about the reported bids for Higuain, Rooney and Suarez, and he replied: “They are all realistic targets quality wise, but not all of them are available to join us,”

“For years we were out of the race for the top-level transfers but we are coming back now. We are working very hard and I’m confident we will be able to do it.”

So is Suarez the only one available? I still think Suarez is a smokescreen for Higuain?

by Raptorgunner Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:27 pm

This is our best chance of winning the title for years

Wenger “Nobody knows what effect the changes will have but we hope to take advantage of our greater stability.

“What has been frustrating for me is that in recent years we couldn’t give our fans what they expected of us.

“But now we are in a position where we want to compete for the title again. Our challenge is to close the gap on Man United, City and Chelsea.

“But they all want to win the league and England is the country where more clubs than any other country think they can win the title.

“I am committed to staying longer at this club and we have already had a chat with Ivan.
“The talks went well and it’s not a problem. But I will not use my longevity as an advantage to stay in this position if I don’t do well.

“My future will depend on how well I do. I don’t just assume I will always be here.

“I’ve always shown my loyalty to this club and I don’t need to prove anything on that. But I want to do well for Arsenal so this is an important season for me.”

Wenger’s comments will be bad news for PSG’s top brass, who are desperate to have him as their boss.

But he added: “People are always linking me with PSG because I am French and I know the owners.

“But if I wanted to go to PSG I would be there already. I’m not because my heart is with Arsenal and they are always my priority.”

The Gunners finished fourth last season but Wenger believes the club’s improving financial situation can also boost their title bid. He said: “When I committed to my last contract the club was going through a very sensitive period because we had less financial resources than other clubs and it was difficult to stay at the top in the Champions League.

“But we are coming out of that period and I hope that in the next two to three years this club will be competing every year for the Premier League title.

“It is important for everyone who loves the game that every team has a fair chance to win the Premier League.

“But now it is not about who develops players within the club, the quality of their game or the attitude — it’s just about who buys the next star.

“It’s a bit like you start a 100 metres race tomorrow and suddenly somebody buys Usain Bolt.

“I don’t know how quick you are, but that will be a problem for you.”

So it looks like Wenger is staying, I am more optimistic about Wenger then I was before. All the dead-wood leaving us now surly means better players coming in. Wenger cant say we have a big squad anymore.

Unless we sign 2/3 wc players this will be our worst year to win the title.

by S Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:34 pm

When Wenger himself has opened his mouth ,you guys should feel optimistic about big transfers.You guys should be prepared to wait though.

by Raptorgunner Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:37 pm

Surag wrote:When Wenger himself has opened his mouth ,you guys should feel optimistic about big transfers.You guys should be prepared to wait though.

The thing is, there are not that many players left not that others have signed them it just WC players dont want to leave their clubs.

Suarez, Higuain could be both staying and who is there left for us?

by Raptorgunner Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:49 pm

Manchester United and Arsenal are chasing Dnipro playmaker Yevhen Konoplyanka, but face competition from Wolfsburg and Bayer Leverkusen for his signature.

Konoplyanka, dubbed the 'Ukrainian Lionel Messi', is one of the hottest prospects in European football.

The 23-year-old starred for Ukraine at Euro 2012 and boosted his profile further when he scored a stunning goal against England in the World Cup qualifying clash at Wembley in September.

The winger is keen to play in one of Europe’s elite leagues and is available for around £13million.

Konoplyanka’s agent, James Lippett, of World in Motion, told talkSPORT: “Yevhen is very highly rated amongst the top teams in England and Germany. The question is simply whether these clubs can meet Dnipro’s valuation and the player's expectations”.

by Sina Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:53 pm

Ukrainian Lionel Messi' or Ukrainian Adam Johnson i don't know hmm

by Raptorgunner Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:54 pm

Sina wrote:Ukrainian Lionel Messi' or Ukrainian Arshivan i don't know

by Chumlum Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:07 pm

Konoplyanka and Yarmolenko - two Ukrainians who got some hype before but have quieted down on the transfer rumor front. Until now maybe? When will the Yarmo rumors light up?

by Jay29 Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:08 pm

Konoplyanka has always looked like a player with lots of flash but little substance whenever I've seen him. If there's anyone I'd like from Kyiv, it'd be Yarmolenko, though even his end product is hampered by inconsistent decision making.

by Jay29 Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:33 pm

And so the conspiracy theories/shit stirring begins...

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/07/13/4114369/wenger-u-turns-delay-arsenals-100m-summer-splurge

by urbaNRoots Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:47 pm

Wenger exposing dem fake journalists rofl

by TalkingReckless Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:20 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:And so the conspiracy theories/shit stirring begins...

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/07/13/4114369/wenger-u-turns-delay-arsenals-100m-summer-splurge

were did we get the extra 30mil from?

by SamuelJayC Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:54 pm

Watched the Under 20 World cup final earlier tonight. A few points:

Never watched Sanogo play at Auxerre, only on highlights. Tonight was the first time I got to see him live (Been super busy, couldn't watch any earlier U20WC games). Disappointing showing from Sanogo, bar a few great runs - but I know he's a lot better than what he showed. I think he looked tired tonight.

In terms of Kondogbia, he's a player I've seen a lot more of. Seen Sevilla play many times. He's obviously talented, but not at the level of Pogba, his midfield team-mate for France U-20's. I'm really not convinced he's what we need right now. He's young, raw, needs 2-3 years to develop, not an out and out dm, has a complicated transfer situation (part owned by group etc).

by EL Patron Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:58 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:And so the conspiracy theories/shit stirring begins...

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/07/13/4114369/wenger-u-turns-delay-arsenals-100m-summer-splurge

What a lot of garbage, the funny thing is people actually believe this. Shit Journalist acting as if they know whats going on

by SamuelJayC Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:14 pm

Fellaini's £23.5m release clause expires on August 14. #AFC target currently in Austria with Everton. http://bit.ly/13e5aGD

by EL Patron Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:16 pm

Samuelj29060 wrote:Fellaini's £23.5m release clause expires on August 14. #AFC target currently in Austria with Everton. http://bit.ly/13e5aGD

GET IN

by Jay29 Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:17 pm

I found an excellent blog post on Suarez that gives some good perspective on the various incidents that he's been involved in.

http://www.gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2013/7/13/the-suarez-dilemma-wenger-wants-him-you-dont-who-is-right

by Sina Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:09 am

30M+ for Fellaini :facepalm:

sad thing is some clubs may still pay that
sort it out FFP The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread - Page 2 2276801876

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