Hazard CONFIRMS he's the best player in the League

Shed wrote:Any Chelsea fan "completely happy" with Hazard must have quite a low opinion of his abilities or potential. He's integral to our side absolutely, but to put your hand over your eyes and deny he has a great deal of improvement to do in a number of key areas and pretend he's some superstar finished product is doing him quite a disservice indeed, and only makes you look every bit the fool you accuse others in here of being merely for trying repeatedly in vain to point that out to you.


His ability isn't in question, it's his output that is.

finally someone from Chelski camp talking sense when it comes to the so called best player in the league. Thank you Shed  for removing that blue tinted glass and giving an honest opinion.

Bankz wrote:Gotze, pogba, isco and even james may have a claim too. They're all better than hazard. Gotze already has 9 goals from 16 games this season at 22, younger, and without the team built around him, without penalties..now thats what you call output..not even gonna be tempted to include a younger neymar in this discussion as that might as well end hazards career on GL. So there you have it, gotze, isco, pogba and james all u-23 players better than hazard and they don't have their team built around them nor do they even take penalties..(most of them are not even a year and a half in their new teams). And i am going to pretend hazard doesnt play for a national team, to make it easy.

Are we talking all players or just attacking? Alaba is still a U-23 player too, for example

Lumiere_Blanche wrote:

Shed wrote:Any Chelsea fan "completely happy" with Hazard must have quite a low opinion of his abilities or potential. He's integral to our side absolutely, but to put your hand over your eyes and deny he has a great deal of improvement to do in a number of key areas and pretend he's some superstar finished product is doing him quite a disservice indeed, and only makes you look every bit the fool you accuse others in here of being merely for trying repeatedly in vain to point that out to you.


His ability isn't in question, it's his output that is.

finally someone from Chelski camp talking sense when it comes to the so called best player in the league. Thank you Shed  for removing that blue tinted glass and giving an honest opinion.

I own no such pair of spectacles

Muller, neuer, robben, gotze, alaba, lahm, ribbery, cr7, bale, benzema, isco, messi, neymar, suarez, di maria, costa, sanchez, aguero, courtois, pogba, ibra, reus, tevez..(lets just assume hazard is better than james, fabregas, kroos, modric,T.silva, lewandowski, and vidal right now) so, these are just 23 from the top of my head as i cant really stress my brain to think right now. And like hans said, if i add other players in thesame age bracket including other positions like alaba, then i don't even know if i can say hazard is a top 5 young player at this point..maybe a top 10 young player at best.

Bankz wrote:Gotze, pogba, isco and even james may have a claim too. They're all better than hazard. Gotze already has 9 goals from 16 games this season at 22, younger, and without the team built around him, without penalties..now thats what you call output..not even gonna be tempted to include a younger neymar in this discussion as that might as well end hazards career on GL. So there you have it, gotze, isco, pogba and james all u-23 players better than hazard and they don't have their team built around them nor do they even take penalties..(most of them are not even a year and a half in their new teams). And i am going to pretend hazard doesnt play for a national team, to make it easy.

Only Neymar is better than Hazard in the u23 department. James on WC form is on the same level with the Belgian. The rest are behind.

Hazard is better than gotze, pogba, and isco?

Bankz wrote:What has iniesta got to do with this? 1.hazard isnt midfielder. 2 Hazard has the team built around him. 3 hazard simply isnt productive, ffs this guy has one goal from open play and an assist this season (against maribor) even as an undisputed starter? 4. Are u seriously comparing iniesta to hazard? LoL

1. Hazard is a midfielder/forward hybrid in our system. So are you suggesting two players can not be compared because they don't play the same position, even though they bring the same outputs for the team. Its like saying Xavi for Spain cannot be compared with Pirlo for Italy, because they play different position. Xavi has played as CAM in Spain 4-2-3-1 system, but everyone know he doesn't play as a traditional 10 role and often plays deeper. While Pirlo has always been placed in a deep position. Regardless of their position, everyone knows that both Xavi and Pirlo are their team dictating midfielders.

2. You are really being ignorant of this Chelsea team. This team is not built around Hazard, in fact most desires to go in the direction of building a team around Hazard. But simply this team is simply what Mou desires, a team that every player defends and attack.

If this team was built around him then for example surely we would play him behind the striker and secondly we would have brought a striker with better link up ability then Costa, since Hazard showed much better numbers in the stat category when linking up with Eto'o.

I really don't care for all this Hazard vs (insert player) nonsense. We are undefeated, ans still can play much better. Non of those players can do a better job for us.

"He is a player with a personality on the field. He gives fans pleasure. Whatever his age, he makes a deep impression on me. He lets the others play better, that's his strength." - Zinedine Zidane

Gil wrote:"He is a player with a personality on the field. He gives fans pleasure. Whatever his age, he makes a deep impression on me. He lets the others play better, that's his strength." - Zinedine Zidane

Zidane is a big fan of his. He told Perez to sign him in 2008 iirc.

Valkyrja wrote:Only Neymar is better than Hazard in the u23 department. James on WC form is on the same level with the Belgian. The rest are behind.

I prefer Gotze and Neymar to Hazard right now. Also I would rather have Ricardo and James Rodriguez to him as well.

But they aren't the only ones that can pass him. There are a lot of very talented young players out there. Even Kevin de Bruyne is on better form right now.

gl a place where running at pace,ghosting and dribbling into blind alleys makes you top 5 or 3....

Hazard is only second to Messi in terms of dribbling abilities, what he lacks is a winning mentality and more self belief. He could easily over-take Ronaldo and even give Messi a run for his money.

He needs to take matters into his own hands and Mourinho should spare him from the defensive assignments unless it has to do with zonal defending schemes.

well if he 'easily' could overtake Ronaldo and give Messi a run for his money, then let's just see if he does that in the next couple of years and if not, let's agree to then classify him as a massive failure since he failed to achieve something that was so easy.
You good with that agreement?

Mind you, at his age both Ronaldo and Messi had won the European Golden show, been top scorers of their league, Messi already had 2 Ballon D'or and won the CL etc pp
So before we can talk of overtaking he's got some ground to make up first. 'Massive failure' label edging closer therefore, so far.

No I am not good with that agreement, because the conditions that I labeled might sound easy but they are the most difficult to commit to. For Hazard to prosper, I am asking for Hazard to change (to start believing that he is actually number 1 or can be number 1 rather than just go out and say he is top 5) and I am also asking that Mourinho changes and entrusts Hazard to take matters into his own hands and spare him from the defensive roles. You cant be good at two things (well you can ofcourse, but you just be average to good / very good). If you want to excel at one thing then you have to exploit all your senses and energy into that particular thing that you have tendencies to excel at. Hazard, loves to dribble and create. He is basically an AM, but he lacks the teeth to be an apex predator. If you also ask him to do some defensive work, then he will lose some advantage in his offensive game. Trust me, this is first hand experience and not something I learn from literature. I tell you what I know, and that I know.

So back to the point, Hazard might not over-take Ronaldo. He can easily over-take him (if he manages to change his conducts and commit to the change which might prove too much). He's only 23, and perhaps if he joins another club with another manager, he might finally achieve this.

Hazard is not as good as prime Messi for sure, but he can give the current Messi a run for his money, if he takes matters more seriously and more into his own hands.

Well if your point is that Hazard will be much better if he improves, I can hardly disagree with that
If your point is that he's talented enough to be an absolute top player, I don't disagree either.

This thread is about something else though.
And if you want the comparison with Messi, of course you have to take prime Messi, not cherrypick Messis worse seasons.
If I were a Hazard fan though, I'd try to avoid these comparisons for the time being.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Well if your point is that Hazard will be much better if he improves, I can hardly disagree with that

That's half my point. I am asking that he changes his conduct. Behavioral changes. That is the most difficult. It's far more important than fitness and goes hand in hand with talent.

Hapless_Hans wrote:If your point is that he's talented enough to be an absolute top player, I don't disagree either.

That's the other half. Both conditions have to be met.  

In Layman's terms, he is a sleeping giant of a player in hibernation and it is not guaranteed that he will recover from that mode.



I am not cherry picking Messi's seasons. I have simply made a comparison between an improved Hazard version vs the current best player in the world (Messi) who is not at his prime days. I dont know how far Hazard can improve if he changes his conducts because he will start harnessing some untapped potentials. I am not sure what he will be capable of atm.

Now mind you, Messi is mentally stronger and viciously greedier than Hazard. I am only asking for Hazard to step his game in those two areas before i decide to make a comparison between him and prime Messi. He will not be far behind the current Messi though or even over-take him.

Hazard can easily surpass ronaldo? And can give messi a run for his money? Well, literally speaking, every top player can 'easily' give those two a run for their money if they fulfilled their potential and excel in the categories u mentioned. It can easily be said of isco, bale, gotze and james, it was even said about robinho too. But what i think hans is talking about is the 'now' and hazards current output/performance, while you are talking about the ideal hazard, an assumptious conclusion which is not what this thread is about i.e "if neymar does x and y, he would easily surpass pele and give maradona a run for his money"..those however are abstract, and aren't certain (he could even become worse too), but what's certain, true and correct, is the hazard of the present, which going by that, we can say that the "now" hazard isnt close to being the best player in the world and isn't the best player in the league (it can change tomorrow for all we know) but, for now, he is more potential than reality, which doesnt say much actually.. But saying, i.e neymar in national jersey is the best player in the world and one of the best in the world on current performances for barca. Suarez last season was the bpl best player. Cr7 in club jersey this season, is the best player in the world. Costa/aguero are the best strikers in the pl. Gotze is the best young german player. Neuer is the best keeper in the world. messi is a 4 time ballon d'or winner.. however are less contentious, less abstract and proven for the "now" and over time..

One more last time, I am not talking about Hazard improving his tangible skills; you guys do a good job at that. The level of talent he currently posses is enough. It's behavioral change and mental toughness what Hazard currently needs to up his game.

The 'now' doesn't concern me. If you want to talk about the 'now', then yeah, Hazard is not at the same level of Ronaldo and Messi but everyone already knows that. Now why the hell do you want me to talk about something that everyone else knows? Capisce now?

I guess I only take offense at the notion of 'easily'.

Setting the poor boy up to fail

Maybe he can reach Messi and CR7?

How about he becomes the best player on his team first, then maybe we can talk about him being one of the best players in the league?

Just setting the boy up to fail.

So what you're saying is that the only thing seperating hazard from messi and ronaldo is their mentality and behavioural change? Well, if thats the case, isnt it thesame thing seperating al taraabt from them, isn't it the only thing seperating balotelli from them, isnt it the only thing seperating robinho from them?

Its what separates most of the successful people from those who are average.

Dont forget that we're talking about the best of the best in a certain domain which is football in that case. Strong Mentality Alone and Behavioral Change might take you to places that is guaranteed but you gotta have the talent because you're competing with other players who have the same or even more mental toughness and conditioned behaviors.

You think Messi and Ronaldo dont have those elements? Even much more than Hazard? That's what's keeping Ronaldo in great Shape; the mind over the body first, and what is contributing to his longevity in this game.

This is why the example that you set doesnt work in this case. You gotta have the talent first, because youre up against the best.

Which is why i used those examples. They're all very talented or aren' they? Okay, better put, isn't it thesame thing seperating gotze, james and isco from those two?

On a side note, i like your attitude, u never feel the need to rain abuses even when one doesnt share same views with you..i think it should be encouraged.

i would laugh at hunstsman but he's been more right then wrong with his crazy predictions.

The fact people actually think Hazard isnt our best player is what kills me. Try watching our games.