Re: The Official Balon d'Or 2014 Thread

by Harmonica Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:51 pm

Strange observation. Every cup competition is luck of the draw, including CL.

by halamadrid2 Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:59 pm

So guys like Ibra should never ever win the Balon dor because their teams rarely make it out of the group stages??? Cool story

by Harmonica Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:01 pm

Not if WC's best player is also in the contention and has double the stats than guy like Ibra. Rational story.

by sportsczy Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:27 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:i don't know a superstar that does well in a team that doesn't cater to his strength. Actually that doesn't exist, it's the very definition of being a superstar.

They all cater to his strengths within the confines of the talent available on the team... on NT, you can't pick and choose players to complement your superstar. You've got what you got and there's going to have to be some level of compromise. You can't buy and sell your players if it doesn't work out.

You get to see if a player is really that great if he can adapt and compromise to meet the requirements of the NT.

As far as Ibra... although Sweden are bad as a team... he is an absolute monster with them. You can't say that he doesn't do great at NT.

So it's not about the NT team winning... it's about seeing if a great player at club level is equally as great on NT in terms of his play and impact.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:37 pm

sportsczy wrote:It's a balance.... the WC is the top tournament in football hands down. It happens only once every 4 years. Also, you can't build a super-team to cater perfectly to the strengths of your superstar. NT is a purer way to find out how good a player truly is since all of the teams will be imperfect. The superstars need to find ways to compensate for their NT's weaknesses... and the great ones do. NT pressure is also several levels above any pressure you would feel at the club level. There's no comparison there.

It's not like Neuer had WC CBs in front of him either... they're good, but not great. He had to make plenty of game-changing saves to get Germany to the point where they started playing well... which happened against France once Lahm was moved back to fullback and Piggy/Khedira recovered some form.

My point? Both Neuer and Ronaldo have arguments. Either of them winning wouldn't be a shock or surprise to me.

Neuer wasn't the standout German player though. A few players were the best in different games.
Neuer beasted against Algeria, but your assertion that he doesn't have top CBs in front of him is a bit unfounded if you consider Boateng was the best player on the pitch in the WC final, Hummels had a couple of fantastic games too.
Kroos was probably the best in the semi, etc.

by Mr Nick09 Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:38 pm

Ibra doesn't compromise or adapt to anything though, he is up top with everyone playing off him.

And he hasn't been very relevant with his NT for the most part of his careers.

After, depending of what kind of player you are, you will struggle more or less.

ibra is a playmaker, he will get on the ball and make good decisions, no matter where he is, he will shine. CR is a finisher, without good service he will go nothing.

by halamadrid2 Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:35 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
And he hasn't been very relevant with his NT for the most part of his careers.

Huh. Ibra is the reason we even qualify let alone actually winning group games while in the competition

I hope you mean Sweden as a team has not been good enough despite Ibras heroics. I still remember his goal from the corner flag against Hungary and goal in the last minute against the very same team to get us into the WC 10 and EC 12. Put that tax evasive midget in our team and we would be like wales

by Harmonica Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:55 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:
And he hasn't been very relevant with his NT for the most part of his careers.

Huh. Ibra is the reason we even qualify let alone actually winning group games while in the competition

I hope you mean Sweden as a team has not been good enough despite Ibras heroics. I still remember his goal from the corner flag against Hungary and goal in the last minute against the very same team to get us into the WC 10 and EC 12. Put that tax evasive midget in our team and we would be like wales

WCQ14

Zlatan 6G + 4A out of 19 SWE goals = 53% importance
Messi 10G + 5A out of 35 ARG goals = 43% importance
Fakenaldo 4G + 3A out of 20 POR goals = 35% importance

Put in Fakenaldo and you would be like Cayman Islands, literally.

by Harmonica Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:39 pm

Additionally Messi is the most important team player in World Cup history.

World Cup Career

Matches (Won - Drawn - Lost)

Pele 14 (12 - 1 - 1) = 86% win
T.Müller 13 (11 - 1 - 1) = 85% win
Ronaldo 19 (16 - 0 - 3) = 84% win
Messi 15 (12 - 1 - 2) = 80% win
Romario 8 (6 - 2 - 0) = 75% win
Cruyff 7 (5 - 1 - 1) = 71% win
Klose 24 (16 - 6 - 3) = 67% win
Maradona 21 (14 - 2 - 5) = 67% win
Zidane 12 (8 - 3 - 1) = 67% win
C.Ronaldo 13 (6 - 3 - 4) = 46% win
Kempes 18 (8 - 4 - 6) = 44% win

Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)

Messi 18 (5 + 6 + 7) out of 22 team goals = 82% (+1 SO goal)
Cruyff 11 (4 + 4 + 3) out of 15 team goals = 73%
Romario 8 (5 + 3 + 0) out of 11 team goals = 73% (+1 SO goal)
Pele 22 (12 + 8 + 2) out of 37 team goals = 59%
Maradona 19 (8 + 8 + 3) out of 32 team goals = 59% (+1 SO miss and goal)
Kempes 17 (6 + 6 + 5) out of 30 team goals = 57%
T.Müller 18 (10 (1p) + 6 + 2) out of 34 team goals = 53%
Zidane 9 (5 (2p) + 2 + 2) out of 17 team goals = 53% (+1 SO goal)
Ronaldo 21 (15 (1p) + 6 + 0) out of 41 team goals = 51% (+1 SO goal)
Klose 20 (16 + 3 + 1) out of 42 team goals = 48%
C.Ronaldo 6 (3 (1p) + 2 + 1) out of 16 team goals = 38% (+1 SO goal)

Interesting thing about Zlatan's WC-career. In the World Cup's Sweden scored 8 goals total, when Zlatan was on the field in 5 games, Sweden scored 0 goals.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:43 pm

Messi's not going to win this, you better start dealing with this now, before it hits you the worst when days are shortest.
Shortage of sunlight can intensify depression.

by Harmonica Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:46 pm

Threads in forums usually are for discussions of the subject presented in the first post.

And yes we all know Cronaldo is stealing yet another one, but we also know that he doesn't deserve this either.

by Adit Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:47 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Neuer wasn't the standout German player though. A few players were the best in different games.
Neuer beasted against Algeria, but your assertion that he doesn't have top CBs in front of him is a bit unfounded if you consider Boateng was the best player on the pitch in the WC final, Hummels had a couple of fantastic games too.
Kroos was probably the best in the semi, etc.

This is my concern as well. Neuer wasnt the crucial player in Germany winning the world cup, apart from algeria game most of the games were decided by outfield players rather than Neuer..i have no complaints if the most important player in German NT wins this award but Neuer? for what?

by Bankz Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:04 pm

Its the turn for ibra to have a taste of hams portion. Can only hope God saves ibra on this one!

by Gil Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:35 pm

No it's the luck because your best chance to win it is simply down to Geography. Players born in Africa, North (Central) America will have all have next to no chance in World Cups. Then you have European players like Laudrup, Bale, Giggs, Ibra, Hazard, Shevchenko, Nedved etc who were *bleep* as well.

by Freeza Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:40 pm

Gil wrote:No it's the luck because your best chance to win it is simply down to Geography. Players born in Africa, North (Central) America will have all have next to no chance in World Cups. Then you have European players like Laudrup, Bale, Giggs, Ibra, Hazard, Shevchenko, Nedved etc who were *bleep* as well.

Brian won confederations cup and the European Championship. Michael wasn't in the '92 EC though. Still had an amazing team around them. But I agree with it overall, definitely harder for players from small European countries to anything noteworthy in NT tournaments.
WC is near impossible to make a surprise win in, the tiny amount of teams that have won it is ridiculous.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:55 pm

Sneaky Gil slipping Hazard into that list hoping we don't notice rofl

by titosantill Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:56 pm

a bit off topic, but hasn't the balon d'or process begun to look more and more like a presidential election or campaign of some sort? when i was younger, journalists, who mind you were experts in these things as they followed most of the games would pick and choose and you would hear little rants about it; you hardly heard the final 3 nominees get interviewed, and whilst there were disagreements some years, players who missed out and mind you had every right to complain said nothing and just focused on their teams (raul, del piero, henry, totti, maldini to name a few)

These days its voted on by coaches and captains, who scout, play, manage, train, etc and thus probably don't even follow the game as much as journalists ....so now its an election, then you have campaigns; clubs, teammates, fifa/euro officials, nominees, friends and families of nominees, all campaign talking about why they are the best recipient for the award and player b isn't.....i just wish they'd scrap the award all together, the attempt to make it more "democratic" has turned it into a farce; their isn't a set criteria with which it is determined, it wasn't a statistical award until maybe 2 or 3 years ago, changes just happen and when one party or person doesn't get elected, there are frowns all across the board....brings a totally different meaning to 'team-game'......either scrap the award, or provide a set criteria for which it should be judged. as for me, i could care less who wins er i mean, who gets "elected".....as long as madrid brings home some important silverware at the end of the season i'm happy.....

by M99 Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:26 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Sneaky Gil slipping Hazard into that list hoping we don't notice

Gil

by Bankz Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:44 pm

Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

by RealGunner Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:49 pm

Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

by LeVersacci Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:52 pm

Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

by ronalessi Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:54 pm

Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:54 pm

Bankz wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

RealGunner wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

LeVersacci wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

by Harmonica Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:55 pm

2014(30.11) in official games

Messi 52 (7pen) goals, 25 assists = directly part of 77 goals
Cronaldo 55 (11pen) goals, 20 assists = directly part of 75 goals

Benzema 33 (1pen) goals, 22 assists = directly part of 55 goals

Müller 29 (6pen) goals, 15 assists = directly part of 44 goals
Neymar 32 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 43 goals
Bale 23 (0pen) goals, 19 assists = directly part of 42 goals
Zlatan 30 (5pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 41 goals

James 21 (3pen) goals, 18 assists = directly part of 39 goals
Robben 22 (3pen) goals, 16 assists = directly part of 38 goals
Di Maria 10 (0pen) goals, 28 assists = directly part of 38 goals
Götze 24 (0pen) goals, 13 assists = directly part of 37 goals
Suarez 18 (0pen) goals, 19 assists = directly part of 37 goals (not shortlisted)

Costa 26 (2pen) goals, 3 assists = directly part of 29 goals
Toure 18 (5pen) goals, 9 assists = directly part of 27 goals
Hazard 14 (7pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 25 goals
Pobga 11 (0pen) goals, 13 assists = directly part of 24 goals

Kroos 8 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 19 goals
Iniesta 3 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 14 goals
Schweinsteiger 6 (0pen) goals, 5 assists = directly part of 11 goals

Defenders

Lahm
Mascherano
Ramos

Goalies

Neuer

by Freeza Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:55 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Bankz wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

Bankz wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

Bankz wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

Bankz wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

RealGunner wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

LeVersacci wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

repped

by M99 Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:55 pm

RealGunner wrote:Lol. Gil. @titto the most precise thing i've read on GL all month. Post of the month. Vote messi for the 2014 elections, thanks.

Stop spamming.

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