Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread

by McAgger Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:12 am

Funny you say that Peccadillo, most Liverpool fans would feel robbed with 20m+Walcott. We genuinely feel some idiots (City, Chelsea) would pay north of 50m for Sterling. Is Walcott worth 30m? Not to us he's not.

by Sri Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:28 am

Thats exactly what I was in Liverpool section earlier last week to find out.

As potential buyers, Arsenal fans feel 20+TW is too high.
As potential sellers, Liverpool has every right to value RS as high as possible - more so with 2 years on his contract and no dearth of rich(er) suitors.

by MJ Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:00 pm

VendettaRed07 wrote:A true Dm solution needs to happen or we will never be able to string together enough performances to win the league or go far in Europe

I still don't understand what a 'true DM solution' is if it isn't Coquelin right now? The one thing he can improve is his passing range, which isn't atrocious, it's just something he could develop more and more and which he has. He's at 83%, he should aim to be in the high 80s.

We have Arteta/Diaby/Flamini and maybe even Rosicky leaving so we'll probably look to add another CM but we have a great system working with Coquelin doing his job perfectly, he has the defensive side of his game nailed down and Wenger has shown enough confidence to say he wants him to keep doing that for years with a new contract.

Don't think it's as obvious that we need, say, Schneiderlin. Think we have our most balanced squad in a long, long time.

by Sri Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:46 pm

AW tends to groom a solution in that role as the last piece of the puzzle. Has always done over the years. Doubt we'll see someone parachuted into the position.

That said, Illara is definitely a player with that profile which comes closest to what we might be missing when Arteta/Flamini leave.

I do not count Diaby and Rosicky in that deeper role because Rosicky raely plays that deep, and Diaby rarely plays.

Departures among the 4 only frees up squad position and wages to reallocate, imo.

Again, it is our 'fringe' players who are likely to leave this summer. So our replacements will also be 'fringe' players and/or internal youth promotions. We're not the club who signs an RvP after signing a Kagawa just because he is available; we're the club that says no to a Cesc because we are covered.

by MJ Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:54 pm

srigooner wrote:
I do not count Diaby and Rosicky in that deeper role because Rosicky raely plays that deep, and Diaby rarely plays.

They don't. Flamini and Arteta do. Point is, with all of them possibly leaving we could see a CM brought in. Doesn't necessarily have to be someone to compete with Coq.

by Sri Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:31 pm

Has to be someone to complement Coquelin.

I see Coquelin as one type, and Ramsey as another.

(Wilshere doesn't have a clear role right now - he is better than his peers neither at playing deep, nor as AM. Basically he has people ahead in every position.)

Arteta is neither a Coquelin, nor a Ramsey. And we need a younger, stud version of that. For me, Illara seems to be that profile, although he'd want first team football and not a squad role.

What that would afford us is the flexibilty of switching between 4-1-4-1 where Coquelin excels, or a 4-2-3-1 where an Arteta-esque player would excel.

The argument is moot if Coquelin develops into that role too - he was MOTM away at Burnley where we played 2 deeper players.

by Eman Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:31 pm

The thing is, if Coquelin is injured, we have no DM anywhere near as good at winning the ball back if we don't bring in a player similar to him. We talk of bringing in someone to complement him but whoever that guy is will surely not replace Ramsey in the starting XI anyway.

If Ramsey is injured, we have Wilshere who is also a box-to-box player, and Santi/Rosicky can play that sort of role to an extent as well, but if Coquelin is out, we would have to replace him with Arteta (which isn't a bad option but still, we'd be noticeably weaker). So, given that, I strongly believe that we should bring someone in who has the same mold as Le Coq with our CM signing.

Peccadillo wrote:Need a CB to replace Mert as No. 1 - unless you fancy Paulista/Chambers to do that.

Merts never gets enough love. He was below expectations earlier this season when he was playing with a LB next to him, Szczesny behind him and when Coquelin hadn't returned, but since he has had good guys around him, he was been very good. Our defence right now is performing as well as any in the league, plus he's a leader, and it is very difficult to sign top CBs in the market these days. I do not consider getting a CB a priority at all tbh.

For versatility's sake, perhaps it would be preferable if the DM we sign can play at the back, but that would just be unrealistically perfect..

by Sri Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:34 pm

Defending is a team effort.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:09 pm

srigooner wrote: Diaby rarely plays.

That's quite a stretch. Try again.

by Sri Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:44 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
srigooner wrote: Diaby rarely plays.

That's quite a stretch. Try again.

Be nice, Hans. The man has been through more than probably everyone at GL put together.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:49 pm

I'd break my leg to be paid tens of thousands a week tbh.

by Sri Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:53 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I'd break my leg to be paid tens of thousands a week tbh.

You'd have to have more than half of France drooling over your skill/talent/potential/yadayada before that. :coffee:

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:54 pm

Challenge accepted :coffee:

by MJ Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:49 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I'd break my leg to be paid tens of thousands a week tbh.

Aha, le double entendre.

by Peccadillo Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:22 am

Eman wrote:The thing is, if Coquelin is injured, we have no DM anywhere near as good at winning the ball back if we don't bring in a player similar to him. We talk of bringing in someone to complement him but whoever that guy is will surely not replace Ramsey in the starting XI anyway.

If Ramsey is injured, we have Wilshere who is also a box-to-box player, and Santi/Rosicky can play that sort of role to an extent as well, but if Coquelin is out, we would have to replace him with Arteta (which isn't a bad option but still, we'd be noticeably weaker). So, given that, I strongly believe that we should bring someone in who has the same mold as Le Coq with our CM signing.
Peccadillo wrote:Need a CB to replace Mert as No. 1 - unless you fancy Paulista/Chambers to do that.
Merts never gets enough love. He was below expectations earlier this season when he was playing with a LB next to him, Szczesny behind him and when Coquelin hadn't returned, but since he has had good guys around him, he was been very good. Our defence right now is performing as well as any in the league, plus he's a leader, and it is very difficult to sign top CBs in the market these days. I do not consider getting a CB a priority at all tbh.

For versatility's sake, perhaps it would be preferable if the DM we sign can play at the back, but that would just be unrealistically perfect..

I love Mert... But to be honest his lack of pace is too much of a liability. It is our weakness that every pacey striker can easily exploit.

If we want to challenge for titles and the CL you simply cannot have a defender who gets outpaced by the likes of Sam Vokes.

Burnley should have equalised from that chance, which would have (obviously) changed the game.

I want him to stay.. but we need a real partner for Kos if we want to go next level. If Paulista turns out to be the real deal that would be ideal - I suspect Wenger will start showing more faith in him soon enough.. so maybe we won't need a new face - chambers and mert are very strong 3rd and 4th choices.

by Peccadillo Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:28 am

MJ wrote:
VendettaRed07 wrote:A true Dm solution needs to happen or we will never be able to string together enough performances to win the league or go far in Europe

I still don't understand what a 'true DM solution' is if it isn't Coquelin right now? The one thing he can improve is his passing range, which isn't atrocious, it's just something he could develop more and more and which he has. He's at 83%, he should aim to be in the high 80s.

We have Arteta/Diaby/Flamini and maybe even Rosicky leaving so we'll probably look to add another CM but we have a great system working with Coquelin doing his job perfectly, he has the defensive side of his game nailed down and Wenger has shown enough confidence to say he wants him to keep doing that for years with a new contract.

Don't think it's as obvious that we need, say, Schneiderlin. Think we have our most balanced squad in a long, long time.

I agree.. unless we can pull some magic like Martinez - Coq is fine as first choice.

Speaking of whom, Hans, chances of Martinez in the summer?

by VendettaRed07 Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:35 am

MJ wrote:
VendettaRed07 wrote:A true Dm solution needs to happen or we will never be able to string together enough performances to win the league or go far in Europe

I still don't understand what a 'true DM solution' is if it isn't Coquelin right now? The one thing he can improve is his passing range, which isn't atrocious, it's just something he could develop more and more and which he has. He's at 83%, he should aim to be in the high 80s.

We have Arteta/Diaby/Flamini and maybe even Rosicky leaving so we'll probably look to add another CM but we have a great system working with Coquelin doing his job perfectly, he has the defensive side of his game nailed down and Wenger has shown enough confidence to say he wants him to keep doing that for years with a new contract.

Don't think it's as obvious that we need, say, Schneiderlin. Think we have our most balanced squad in a long, long time.

It is balanced now because Coq has done well but he really hasn't been tested over a long period of time. He's really only shown us just how much better we look when someone actually does what they are supposed to in that role. I hope he gets games and continues to improve but we are shooting ourselves in the foot yet again if we don't sign a proper defensive midfielder. We can't rely on diaby or arteta or Flamini to give us absolutely anything. Not even as back ups. Sign someone high quality and have Coq prove his play now is legit and earns the starting spot or we wind up with a better player in addition to having Coq give us a quality rotation in that area

by Jay29 Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:29 pm

I love Mert... But to be honest his lack of pace is too much of a liability. It is our weakness that every pacey striker can easily exploit.

It's not been a liability at all, though. Vokes out-paced him, sure, but just a week before Mertesacker marked Raheem Sterling, one of the quickest players in the league, and didn't get exploited once the whole game. Arsenal played a defensive line as high as the half-way line at points in that game and it was barely an issue.

For what is supposed to be a glaring weakness that is flagged up every time we come up against pacey forwards, the number of times that weakness is actually exploited is surprisingly small. Arsenal's defending has improved enough that Mertesacker is rarely isolated by opposition attackers. As it should be; if the team is an a position where the centre backs need to constantly be racing with opposition forwards to get the ball, then they aren't defending properly.

It is balanced now because Coq has done well but he really hasn't been tested over a long period of time. He's really only shown us just how much better we look when someone actually does what they are supposed to in that role. I hope he gets games and continues to improve but we are shooting ourselves in the foot yet again if we don't sign a proper defensive midfielder. We can't rely on diaby or arteta or Flamini to give us absolutely anything. Not even as back ups. Sign someone high quality and have Coq prove his play now is legit and earns the starting spot or we wind up with a better player in addition to having Coq give us a quality rotation in that area

If Coquelin is doing what he's supposed to in the role, then what is the problem? Why the need for a "true DM solution" if the guy playing the role is doing exactly what we require him to do?

There's a need for depth, but I think Coquelin has proven enough to earn the chance to be our first choice for the position.

by MJ Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:02 pm

VendettaRed07 wrote:
It is balanced now because Coq has done well but he really hasn't been tested over a long period of time. He's really only shown us just how much better we look when someone actually does what they are supposed to in that role. I hope he gets games and continues to improve but we are shooting ourselves in the foot yet again if we don't sign a proper defensive midfielder. We can't rely on diaby or arteta or Flamini to give us absolutely anything. Not even as back ups. Sign someone high quality and have Coq prove his play now is legit and earns the starting spot or we wind up with a better player in addition to having Coq give us a quality rotation in that area

He's played 4-5 months of top level football against the likes of Man City, Liverpool, Monaco (away), Man United and has been a factor in one of our best winning runs since the invincibles. I don't see what else he could do to convince Wenger he doesn't need to scour the market (which he wouldn't do anyway) for a 'top DM'.

But, for you, who would be some examples of top DMs?

by VendettaRed07 Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:05 pm

I'm not sure if I'm quite saying this correctly

We need another Dm. Coq isn't going to play every game. Rather than hand him a starting spot and say he's good enough and think we'll, he'll get all the important games, diaby, arteta and Flamini will play the rest.. I think that is a mistake. They shouldn't be expected to play at all.

I'm not saying, we need to buy a world class player or whatever. If there's one out there, then go for it. but I mean that we need someone who actually profiles as that position and not just a cm that we play there.

When we needed another keeper we didn't just get someone cheap, we brought in ospina and he's actually benched chez. I'd like us to approach the Dm situation like we did goal keeper. We could have said chez was good enough and had just whoever back him up when he was injured or whatever, but we bought someone who's actually good enough to compete with him. Flamini, diaby, and arteta will not push Coq to the bench for any reason. They aren't either good enough or ever healthy. So we need to actually buy a real Dm, as in someone who plays that position and not "the best one in the world!" Or whatever. Just someone who actually is a prototypical defensive midfielder, that is a legitimate option and can compete with Coq or rotate with him so we aren't limited to one player needing to be there every time we play decent competition or else the balance of the team is off and the back line is unprotected. I don't want to wind up in a situation where Coq gets injured or maybe for some reason isn't playing well and we play Barcelona mid week and the only player we have to put in there to replace him is Flamini. That is just irresponsible and puts us at a needless disadvantage

by El Gunner Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:51 pm

I hear you Vendetta

by MJ Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:58 pm

@Vendetta: No one is saying we couldn't use with some depth or that Coquelin shouldn't compete with anyone. I was questioning what you said before, about a 'true DM solution'.

by Peccadillo Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:46 am

GoonerJay29 wrote:
I love Mert... But to be honest his lack of pace is too much of a liability. It is our weakness that every pacey striker can easily exploit.

It's not been a liability at all, though. Vokes out-paced him, sure, but just a week before Mertesacker marked Raheem Sterling, one of the quickest players in the league, and didn't get exploited once the whole game. Arsenal played a defensive line as high as the half-way line at points in that game and it was barely an issue.

For what is supposed to be a glaring weakness that is flagged up every time we come up against pacey forwards, the number of times that weakness is actually exploited is surprisingly small. Arsenal's defending has improved enough that Mertesacker is rarely isolated by opposition attackers. As it should be; if the team is an a position where the centre backs need to constantly be racing with opposition forwards to get the ball, then they aren't defending properly.

I disagree.. its not just pace, its sluggishness, slow reactions. We held a high line and dominated Liverpool for much of the game.. lets be honest, it was a distinctly average Liverpool, who barely tested out defence.

I have seen a number of occasions where his sluggishness/lack of pace has exposed us and forced Kos or Bellerin to backtrack to cover to make last ditch efforts to clear the danger.

It's easy on the back of a string of wins to not see it as an issue, but when the team isn't defending well collectively, I'd rather have a more complete centre half personally. I think Paulista is that. You should consider watching replays of some of the games we have lost, not just focus on games where we dominated.. I know we are on a good run but conceding goals has been our issue this season - in the league and CL.

I know I equally shouldn't just pick out the Vokes example.. but that's to illustrate a very basic point. I get that in theory you don't want defenders chasing through balls with strikers.. but if you watch that incident again you might agree that it shouldn't have even been a contest and there should have been no danger to begin with.

If Burnley can nearly capitalise on that weakness you can be sure that stronger opposition, ie Chelsea coming up, certainly will. Your theory of good defending is a bit idealistic.. you are never going to flawlessly defend for 90 minutes and the opposition also have other ideas, it just takes one counter-attack.

Mert is a leader and hes probably my favourite personality in the team.. his height, stature, composure and leadership bring a lot to the table. I just think Paulista or a new face may have more to offer. I still want him as 3rd choice CB.

by SamuelJayC Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:14 am

Kondogbia's name is being bandied about again. Didn't watch the Juve-Monaco game last night although I saw the highlights but those who watched whole game say he was very good again. A lot of 7.5/10 ratings from publications.

Whilst he would provide that physical presence in the middle (that we hoped Diaby would be), he isn't even Monaco's out and out DM (Toulalan).

I think Schneiderlin represents the best investment. He's Premier League proven, too.

by Jay29 Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:28 am

It's easy on the back of a string of wins to not see it as an issue, but when the team isn't defending well collectively, I'd rather have a more complete centre half personally. I think Paulista is that. You should consider watching replays of some of the games we have lost, not just focus on games where we dominated.. I know we are on a good run but conceding goals has been our issue this season - in the league and CL.

Believe me, I have re-watched most of our defeats this season. Mertesacker isn't faultless; of course he isn't. But whatever issue we had conceding goals earlier in the season can't be solely attributed to him, not when injuries meant he was playing in a different back four every game. He played the majority of the first part of the season alongside Chambers, Debuchy or Monreal, and didn't have a pre-season behind him. I think most defenders would struggle in that situation.

If Burnley can nearly capitalise on that weakness you can be sure that stronger opposition, ie Chelsea coming up, certainly will. Your theory of good defending is a bit idealistic.. you are never going to flawlessly defend for 90 minutes and the opposition also have other ideas, it just takes one counter-attack.

I think you're over-stating the significance of what is one isolated incident. Burnley did it once; they didn't do it again for the rest of the game.

As I said, for something that is perceived to be such a major weakness, the amount of chances and goals we concede because of it is small.

by MJ Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:28 pm

+1 Jay.

We could analyze the weakness of any player in this in-form squad, highlight a time it was exploited and then make a case for their being sold on the back of it. It's senseless imo.

Anyway

Something something James Milner, something something would prefer Arsenal move over Liverpool, something something £130,000 per week wages. - the Metro

If Arteta/Flamini/Diaby/Rosicky leave then he could be a useful addition. No transfer fee would alleviate the impact of those wages and if Walcott goes too then we have another player to fill in on the wings.

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