Is Messi still the best ever?

Thimmy wrote:
I predict that at least one "best player of all time" will emerge over the next ten to fifteen years, and I'm sure that Maradona, Pele, and other past greats will become increasingly insignificant as time passes by - because people don't care that they didn't actually watch them play. How can they compete against the fresh, shining stars of contemporary football, that have benefitted from the advancement in health and technology, and have yet to fade from peoples' memories?

He's already here.

Nerman

Its all nostalgia. People remember only good moments. 3 years ago people would disagree with messi being best ever. They would bring chelsea games inter games and downplay messi. Now its forgotten and we remember only good things. Time will pass we will forgot how messi was walking and not pressing in 2014. Instead we will talk how amazing he scored getafe goal or madrid goal. And Messi's image will be even bigger after 20 years

All this happened Maradona too. His fanboys and all people forgot how he flopped in some games. We only like to remember his goal of century and great dribblings. But when i watch his full 90 minute match he looks pretty normal player to me. Not best ever. But when i watch his highlights and check his titles (which is what most people do) he looks one of the best ever players to me.

So we should wait and see. Messi's name will grow even bigger after retirement. He has more highlights and he has more awards and titles to amaze people when nostalgia begins

I have stopped looking at this sports in terms of "who is the best ever". First of all, it's stupid for a sports where the collective is so important to always be looking for that one individual that stands above everyone.

Not only that, but the criteria that we use to rate players, whether we look at trophies, big games performances, and most importantly the players they played with, change all the time.

The last factor, time. The game keeps evolving, not just physically, but tactically as well. That impacts statistics and performances as well.

And as Timmy said, i won't even mention personal bias, whoever we watched years ago was the best ever. younger kids will tell you that pele wasn't as good as messi etc...

I don't want to stretch my mind trying to find that unique individual that was the best ever regardless of which era he played in.

I would rather look at Different eras overtime and you can see the guys that dominated their eras on a single line.

Di Stefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, etc... And to this day, we have Messi.

After Messi, we will either have another super player like Messi or a couple of slightly below super players like Zidane and R9 sharing an era, etc...

I dont see guys like R9 or baggio as inferior players tbh.
Infact i still maintain that r9 remains the biggest talent i know. Coming from a guy whos seeing el diego, messi, zidane, zico, romario & baggio play. Though i agree that messi is in goat category and who ever says he's the best ever wouldnt be wrong either. But then again this just shows the actual golf in class btw messi and others in this generation.

Without question Messi and Ronaldo are the two best offensive players of all time. Messi being the best and I'm not even a Messi fan.

Thimmy wrote:I'm sure some people will disagree with me on this, but I think a lot of us just want to be able to experience for ourselves, and be able to tell others in the future, that they witnessed the best football player of all time. It's always been like that, and I don't think it will ever change.

There's no arguing against the fact that having personally witnessed the best player of all time, in all his glory, through HD television or otherwise, is more fun and exciting than reading about them on the internet, or watching a limited amount of random clips on youtube that were salvaged from the Titanic and filmed with a high-end typewriter.

I predict that at least one "best player of all time" will emerge over the next ten to fifteen years, and I'm sure that Maradona, Pele, and other past greats will become increasingly insignificant as time passes by - because people don't care that they didn't actually watch them play. How can they compete against the fresh, shining stars of contemporary football, that have benefitted from the advancement in health and technology, and have yet to fade from peoples' memories?

I agree to a point, but its not as easy as you make it seem to be. Since Pele/Maradona era we've seen Cruyff, Beckenbauer Platini, Zidane, R9, Ramario, Figo, Messi, Ronaldo, Van Basten, Dinho, Zico, etc but out of that bunch only Messi has been considered to be as good, if not better then them and Messi type of player isn't one that comes around every 15-20 years.

Not to mention it was easy Messi 07-08 season was really good, but he flourished in 08-09 and since then he's been doing well, even these two years he hasn't been in his best, but he still has that magic, so offering the level of football he has for 5-6 years like that isn't easy.

All tho from the current corp I can only see Neymar challenging them, but I also see him becoming another Dinho, too much partying, dating a new girl every couple of months, etc. Gotze and Hazard are the other two, but they aren't really blowing anyone out of the water yet.

We'll hear/see lots of comparison between those 3, but personal don't seen another footballer actually being crowned the greatest for about 25-30 years maybe even longer.

Maybe its difficult to compare different eras but in my opinion what makes Messi best ever is his super abilities at different things
We have seen people saying
Messi is best dribbler i have ever seen
Messi is best scorer i have ever seen
Messi is best passer i have ever seen

I think no player in history had such different qualities at "best ever" level. Nobody would say Maradona is best scorer i ever seen or Pele is best dribbler i ever seen. But they say all of these abilities combined about Messi

Watch the best ever getting nullyfied for the 7th consecutive game against Atletico.

Fußball wrote:Watch the best ever getting nullyfied for the 7th consecutive game against Atletico.

Assisted the only goal, and scored the wrongfully dissallowed La Liga winning goal in the last game?

But you are right, watch refs nullify Barca.

tags: perez villar real madrid referee corruption ronaldo penaldo penalty

Harmonica wrote:

Fußball wrote:Watch the best ever getting nullyfied for the 7th consecutive game against Atletico.

Assisted the only goal, and scored the wrongfully dissallowed La Liga winning goal in the last game?

Which goal did he assist?

Oh, wait. You mean the Alexis once in a lifetime strike from a 2 degree angle where Messi randomly touched it before. I take it back: GOAT.

Fußball wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Fußball wrote:Watch the best ever getting nullyfied for the 7th consecutive game against Atletico.

Assisted the only goal, and scored the wrongfully dissallowed La Liga winning goal in the last game?

Which goal did he assist?

Oh, wait. You mean the Alexis once in a lifetime strike from a 2 degree angle where Messi randomly touched it before. I take it back: GOAT.

Goats score league winning goals sure, doesn't always count.

Messi tearing Atletico apart.

Fußball with that expert jinx

ffs he is tearing that wing up. going past 2/3 with such ease. havent seen him this fast in ages

Bad timing for fusball

Fussball knew what he was doing tbh. Don't tell me u guys really believed those things he said. Fussball hobby is jinxing.

Messi

"Watch the best ever getting nullyfied for the 7th consecutive game against Atletico."

involved in all 4 goals. goat jinx

Bankz wrote:Jiopsi owning vapotrini hard with those quotes from ex-maradona team-mates.
They both are basically at the same level tbh, especially in terms of talent. But what seperates them is maradonas achievement was basically against the odds kind of stuff, which people and fans alike tend to really feel more sentimental towards (italian league, napoli, argentina, wc & EC), it also helps that el diego played in argentina with boca too making local fans all the more attached to him. Plus maradona had wc glory with argentina to put iceing on the cake. While messi is more consistent and has won more than diego generally thus making him the best club player ever but without any against the odds moments. Infact u can argue that messi had the luxury of playing in arguably the best team ever, which diego did not, plus being an underachiever in the NT colours at seniour level hasn't helped his cause either.


So, to cut the long story short, maradona was/is greater (which is basically sentiment, excitement and fasination), while messi is the better player (which logic backs tbh). Big difference there btw greater vs better.

It all depends on what values are more important to you. That being said, i choose maradona cause of those moments and emotions of against the odds stuff he made us enjoy, feelings that never go away, as nobody could deny that maradona was more exciting and more spontaneous in his presentation as opposed to the ruthlessly efficient messi.. This is my opinion.

I do agree with some of the points you've made, in regard to Maradona being an against the odds- type of player, as opposed to Messi who's been playing for the arguably best team in the history of the sport, and widely considered to be the best possession- type team of all time. I'm a bit sceptic about Messi being the more efficient player, though.

I'm not very knowledgeable about Maradona's teams, but I assume that he didn't have the same quality service, nor as much possession of the ball as Messi has enjoyed throughout his career with Barcelona - particularly while Xavi was still there? I've only watched youtube clips of Maradona, which I know, is hardly a reliable, credible source for comparison, but it just gave me the impression that Maradona was a more self-sufficient, individualistic type of player - one that makes full use of the few chances he gets, á la Nistelrooy. I've witnessed first-hand how efficient Messi can be, but was he really more efficient than Maradona?

I've talked to a handful of people who did watch Maradona when he was an active player, and they all mentioned his extraordinary efficiency which seemed to be fueled by his enthusiasm and aggressive personality - a drive to chase the ball even when everyone else had declared it would go out of play. I would assume that someone who was famously expected to drag his team to victory, time and time again (and did so successfully), would be relied upon to make use of his possession of the ball - as opposed to someone who's had the most reliable service anyone's ever witnessed.

Maradona wasn't efficient...  he was flashy.  Think Ronaldinho before Ronaldinho.  Problem i have with Maradona is that his peak lasted 4 years... from 1986 through 1990.  He wasn't the best player in the world before or after that.  But like Dinho, at his peak, he was unbelievable.  Too much alcohol and cocaine made it hard for Maradona to reach his peak and then sustain it.

The king is Pele and nobody's close or will be at this stage.  He was astounding at club AND NT for 16 years... think about it, he was the best player in the world for most of 16 years (except for a couple of years in the middle of it where i think Garincha was better).

Messi would have to be the best for another 5 years to even get into the conversation.

If the BdO included south american players, Pele would have had 10 of them at least.

Im asking everyone not to get in discussion with ^ about Pele and his look on things. For the love of god. Spare yourself the time.

sportsczy wrote:Maradona wasn't efficient...  he was flashy.  Think Ronaldinho before Ronaldinho.  Problem i have with Maradona is that his peak lasted 4 years... from 1986 through 1990.  He wasn't the best player in the world before or after that.  But like Dinho, at his peak, he was unbelievable.  Too much alcohol and cocaine made it hard for Maradona to reach his peak and then sustain it.

The king is Pele and nobody's close or will be at this stage.  He was astounding at club AND NT for 16 years... think about it, he was the best player in the world for most of 16 years (except for a couple of years in the middle of it where i think Garincha was better).

Messi would have to be the best for another 5 years to even get into the conversation.

If the BdO included south american players, Pele would have had 10 of them at least.

That's probably why it's unfair to compare players from different generations. I mean, in today's football what would Pelè look like? He would be a player of Lacazette's level, a very good player but definitely not on Messi's level, and that's because football changes a lot, evolves a lot so it's not really fair. I mean Pelè didn't choose to live in that era, he just happened to play in that time and like you said he did the best possible, he was the best player of his generation.

Katy Perry wrote:
That's probably why it's unfair to compare players from different generations. I mean, in today's football what would Pelè look like? He would be a player of Lacazette's level, a very good player but definitely not on Messi's level, and that's because football changes a lot, evolves a lot so it's not really fair. I mean Pelè didn't choose to live in that era, he just happened to play in that time and like you said he did the best possible, he was the best player of his generation.

The only difference is they played in different eras and Pelé was the best player of his generation while Lacazette is only a very good player in his generation. That's why it's unfair to compare players of different generations.

pele=lacazette?in any era? this forum

Yes. It's not like Pelè bossing it in 1950/60's football means that he would be as good as Messi in today's much changed and evolved football. Lacazette would dominate the same way Pelè in 1950/1960's football.

But then again, it's not like Pelè choose which era to live in, he just happened to live in his and he bossed it. It's not entirely fair to compare players of different generations.