Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
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McLewis
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Didn't know the situation at Parma was unable-to-play-games bad. Their list of loaned out players is impressive, though. Dem assets.
Art Morte- Forum legendest
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
BREAKING: Parma has been dissolved (or automatically relegated). Each game scheduled now against them is auto 0-3.
Wow.
Feel sorry for the fans.
Twoism
Wow.
Feel sorry for the fans.
Twoism
RealGunner- Admin
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
It' s fake , there are not still these news in Italy.
It might happen in future , but atm it is not so.
It might happen in future , but atm it is not so.
Robespierre- World Class Contributor
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Got from eurosports
https://twitter.com/EurosportCom_EN/status/569221001323663360
https://twitter.com/EurosportCom_EN/status/569221001323663360
RealGunner- Admin
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Have Roma played Parma twice?
Tomwin Lannister- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
But yea apparently the news is from a poorly translated site.
It's not official yet
It's not official yet
RealGunner- Admin
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
It's pretty shambolic for the whole league if Parma cannot play their remaining matches, in such a case they should hand every team both their matches against Parma a 3 - 0 win, that's the only way it would remain fair.
Art Morte- Forum legendest
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
the Judgment Day will be the 19th of March . It is the day of hearing about Parma's bankruptcy.
so we will know that day.
Atm the situation is desperated and their salvation appears impossible.
But anyway in Italy there is the chance of "piloted bankruptcy " , if you bankrupt within a period of time you can you keep the divison and not beginning from 4th-5h divison etc as Rangers did in Scotland.
Piloted bankruptcy was done recently from clubs as Ascoli, Pescara and Bari ( Bari bankrupted last year during Serie B and it kept Serie B).
Parma aspires to this I believe , beginning from Serie B with a new society, but it is not easy and atm the situation is in deep sea
so we will know that day.
Atm the situation is desperated and their salvation appears impossible.
But anyway in Italy there is the chance of "piloted bankruptcy " , if you bankrupt within a period of time you can you keep the divison and not beginning from 4th-5h divison etc as Rangers did in Scotland.
Piloted bankruptcy was done recently from clubs as Ascoli, Pescara and Bari ( Bari bankrupted last year during Serie B and it kept Serie B).
Parma aspires to this I believe , beginning from Serie B with a new society, but it is not easy and atm the situation is in deep sea
Robespierre- World Class Contributor
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Robespierre wrote:the Judgment Day will be the 19th of March . It is the day of hearing about Parma's bankruptcy.
so we will know that day.
Atm the situation is desperated and their salvation appears impossible.
But anyway in Italy there is the chance of "piloted bankruptcy " , if you bankrupt within a period of time you can you keep the divison and not beginning from 4th-5h divison etc as Rangers did in Scotland.
Piloted bankruptcy was done recently from clubs as Ascoli, Pescara and Bari ( Bari bankrupted last year during Serie B and it kept Serie B).
Parma aspires to this I believe , beginning from Serie B with a new society, but it is not easy and atm the situation is in deep sea
So if Parma get bankrupt, they will be relegated to Amateur leagues right? But if htey do this pioted bankruptcy, they will have to stay in B? What will happen to the unpaid wages? I think that they should start building again from the youths. It will give hope to Italian football.
salmano9- Fan Favorite
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Best case scenario is similar to Bari but Bari debt is 50M and Parma is 97M and rising, it's also mostly unpaid taxes. Worst case scenario would be Fio back then, Serie D or C1. At the moment, saving the club is important, no matter how low it will be relegated.
The situation is still no clear at all, it seems like lots of shady moves have been made just to buy enough time for Ghirardi to get away from all of this. 1st was Taci then the new president, Manetti just vanished and the Mapi group bank account has been closed Feb 19th, suspected to be emptied.
The youth team coached by Crespo just got another victory but apparently couldn't have hot shower so yeah the situation is that dire.
Also
http://www.football-italia.net/62922/parmas-leonardi-moved-clinic
I know the man is responsible for everything but still hope he's ok and stands proper trial. I would be freaking pissed if Ghirardi gets away from it all.
The situation is still no clear at all, it seems like lots of shady moves have been made just to buy enough time for Ghirardi to get away from all of this. 1st was Taci then the new president, Manetti just vanished and the Mapi group bank account has been closed Feb 19th, suspected to be emptied.
The youth team coached by Crespo just got another victory but apparently couldn't have hot shower so yeah the situation is that dire.
Also
http://www.football-italia.net/62922/parmas-leonardi-moved-clinic
I know the man is responsible for everything but still hope he's ok and stands proper trial. I would be freaking pissed if Ghirardi gets away from it all.
Twoism- First Team
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Tomwin Lannister wrote:Have Roma played Parma twice?
Yeah, but our results will remain the same.
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Football Italia reporting on Parma captain Lucarelli's perspective on this situation. Some really telling stuff here. I really feel for him and his teammates as well as those fans. Everyone got taken for a ride here.
Would hate to see them start from the amateur league, but I almost feel like that would be better than to be kept alive in Serie B with all of this debt still owed and no plan in place to pay it off.
Would hate to see them start from the amateur league, but I almost feel like that would be better than to be kept alive in Serie B with all of this debt still owed and no plan in place to pay it off.
Lucarelli: 'Parma, time is up'
By Football Italia staff
Parma captain Alessandro Lucarelli said players are prepared to “walk out,” revealed broken promises, but won’t abandon the club.
The club is on the verge of bankruptcy and today’s Serie A game with Udinese was postponed because they don’t have the money to pay for stewards or security at the Stadio Tardini.
The squad has for a week been in a position to push Parma into administration, but so far resisted in order to give new President Giampietro Manenti more time.
“Things have been strange for two years. The club always tended to pay our wages on the deadline day. That made us suspicious,” Lucarelli told La Gazzetta dello Sport.
“In November the now ex-President Tommaso Ghirardi came to the locker room and told us our wages hadn’t been paid because he was in negotiations with Rezart Taci to sell the club, but negotiations did not go well.
“We told him that he was the President and therefore owed us our wages, but he replied that he wouldn’t put one more Euro into Parma. At that point the meeting became rather tense, some harsh things were said.
“We felt betrayed and taken for a ride by Ghirardi.”
The patron did eventually sell to Albanian businessman Taci in December, but that lasted barely two months until the club was sold on again to Manenti.
“I never even saw Taci. We always had contact with Kodra, the President. I have to admit he was the only one during this absurd period to not make any promises. He just said the club was in serious financial difficulty and he didn’t know when he could pay us.
“Manenti immediately put big promises on the table. He showed us a bank statement ‘proving’ that he had €100m available to invest in Parma. That was a really big sum, so we were slightly dubious.
“Then, every day, it was the same thing: there are red tape problems, we have to wait another day or two. So far, we haven’t seen a single Euro.”
Nonetheless, the players have refused to go through with their rights to sue the club and push it into administration.
“Making the club fail means sending home at least 200 families who work for Parma,” explained Lucarelli.
“I am not thinking of the players, but of those who are supposed to get wages of €1,000 per month. We felt this responsibility on our shoulders.
“However, now time has run out. The idea of administration is long gone. We are working with the Players’ Association, the FIGC and the council. We’ll directly begin bankruptcy proceedings. We have to speed this process up in order to at least save our club status.”
It is hoped that bankruptcy proceedings will allow new investors to come in fresh so next season Parma can resume from Serie B rather than the amateur league.
“On Monday there should be a meeting with the magistrates, the council experts and the Federation. We want to bring forward the bankruptcy hearing that is already planned for March 19.”
Lucarelli also noted the players don’t just blame Parma owners, but also those who allowed this to happen.
“I have never seen a horrible story like this in football. The Lega Serie A and Federation have to shoulder a great deal of responsibility, as they only came to see us on Friday. Where were they before that?
“Why were there no adequate checks? Why was Parma allowed to register almost 200 players? Why was the club allowed to be sold on twice for €1? Ridiculous. Here the institutions didn’t look after anyone.
“We want to know whether the Lega and FIGC are here for Parma or to save their precious Serie A. I get the impression they are more concerned about ensuring we can finish the season so the results are ‘regular.’
“They should know we are not guaranteeing anything to anyone. If we do not feel protected, we are prepared to boycott games. We’d go on the field for 10 minutes and then walk off.
“They are gambling with people’s lives here and there needs to be respect. They left us here to die? Fine, we’ll all die together.
“We showed how professional we are, including last Sunday when we took points off Roma. We defend our dignity and that of our fans. Since November 15 nobody has discussed football in the locker room. You try preparing for a match in these conditions. We want to prove we’re morally beyond reproach.”
Today’s game against Udinese could’ve gone ahead behind closed doors, but Lucarelli reveals the players called it off.
“Did they not think about the rights of the season ticket holders who paid money to the club at the start of the season? It would set a precedent for future home games and football is nothing without fans.”
Who does Lucarelli feel is to blame for all this?
“Ghirardi. He actually said ‘you’ll thank me because I sold the club to Taci.’ Yeah, thanks a lot from everyone at the squad...
“I ask how can the institutions allow a company with €1,000 capital and another with €7,500 capital to buy a Serie A club? What credibility can Italian football have to the outside world?
“At Parma we’ve been the guinea pigs, but now we want assurances this situation can never happen again. The rules have to be changed.
“In any case, I am prepared to stay with Parma even in the amateur league and continue wearing this armband. Parma is within me now.”
Several Parma players, including Lucarelli, Raffaele Palladino, Massimo Gobbi and Antonio Mirante, have started a Twitter campaign with the hashtag #SaveParma.
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
If I know well Alessandro Lucarelli , he is going to estabilish the dictatorship of the proletariat as the instrument of the proletarian revolution.
Crespo ( Parma primavera now) said they have a shower with old water. They haven't even the hot water.
Anyway it's incredible the Pandora's box uncovered by Cerci penalty kick missed against Fiorentina
penalty kick who had given EL place to Parma and taken away to Torino .. but then Uefa denied Uefa license to Parma... because the situation was worse than Ghirardi said .. and all emerged out
I remind the fat Ghirardi receive solidarity at that time , because it looked like an injustice...... but indeed the situation was shameful
Parma was saved from bankruptcy already during Parmalat fraud, Ghirardi got a society cleansed of debts and he caused this garbage in few years . Awful management
Taci is famous to be a shady man , about Manenti I said all on Serie A thread, he has not euro , so who is moving around Parma FC now ? I 've read some rumours about AntiMafia investigating on it.
Crespo ( Parma primavera now) said they have a shower with old water. They haven't even the hot water.
Anyway it's incredible the Pandora's box uncovered by Cerci penalty kick missed against Fiorentina
penalty kick who had given EL place to Parma and taken away to Torino .. but then Uefa denied Uefa license to Parma... because the situation was worse than Ghirardi said .. and all emerged out
I remind the fat Ghirardi receive solidarity at that time , because it looked like an injustice...... but indeed the situation was shameful
Parma was saved from bankruptcy already during Parmalat fraud, Ghirardi got a society cleansed of debts and he caused this garbage in few years . Awful management
Taci is famous to be a shady man , about Manenti I said all on Serie A thread, he has not euro , so who is moving around Parma FC now ? I 've read some rumours about AntiMafia investigating on it.
Robespierre- World Class Contributor
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
wait parma's broke again? correct me if i'm wrong but weren't they bankrupt back in the mid 2000s after all the financial and fraudulent problems associated with parmalat? is this a case of gross mismanagement, corruption or both?
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
They have a lot of debt and no way to pay it back, are getting relegated and are not attractive to any proper investor, I don't really see how Parma could survive this. If it's possible in Italy, the only "good" option I see is what Glasgow Rangers did, a new-found company that carries the same name but is technically a new club.
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
@Robe: Lucarelli while great is just one man, I hope he is our Di Livio
Ghiradi the fat fcuk might just walk away with all of these, when he cried in that press conference I felt for it just like thousands of other fans. Rumors said he falsify document to get a loan from German bank and the two companies took over are just money laundry business. Manenti said money has to move from Russian to Slovenia to Italy, like anyone gonna believe that.
@ Art: Fio went throught the same thing, down to C1 so that will most likely be the case. It's the name of the club that's important, it got changed once from AC to FC.
Ghiradi the fat fcuk might just walk away with all of these, when he cried in that press conference I felt for it just like thousands of other fans. Rumors said he falsify document to get a loan from German bank and the two companies took over are just money laundry business. Manenti said money has to move from Russian to Slovenia to Italy, like anyone gonna believe that.
@ Art: Fio went throught the same thing, down to C1 so that will most likely be the case. It's the name of the club that's important, it got changed once from AC to FC.
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Twoism wrote:
@ Art: Fio went throught the same thing, down to C1 so that will most likely be the case. It's the name of the club that's important, it got changed once from AC to FC.
Ah, interesting, I didn't know that. So, this Fiorentina we know has actually been founded only in 2002
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
It changed from AC Fiorentina to ACF Fiorentina , but basically FC ,ACF or AC etc is irrilevant, you must change just the association football club name ... but about the rest in Italy you can buy back again the right to use the name ( in this case Fiorentina) , brand , colours etc , Della Valle bought back it in 2003 and he re-incorporated itself as ACF Fiorentina.
So it is basically same club as always, I mean they preserved name, trophies, colours , all , only difference with AC - ACF but who cares.
Fiorentina had just to change temporarily its name in " Florentia Viola " after the bankruptcy , but then they got back all under Della Valle
Same thing made from other important bankrupted clubs as Napoli ( I remind when they were called temporarily " Napoli Soccer " before of buying back everything) , Torino etc
So it is not a real problem , Parma will do as Rangers, Fiorentina, Napoli and Torino, they will get back everything a day supposedly, but we must understand how they will start over after bankrupt ( it looks like likely) .
If it will be Serie B because they will benefit of " piloted bankrupt " (described above) as Bari did , or if they will have to begin from 4th or 5th division
Parma never played in Serie A till 1990 , then they were bought by Tanzi ,the founder of Parmalat , and they won many trophies with Parmalat money becoming the Italian club with more European trophies after the 3 Itlalian giants Juventus Milan Inter .
Then " Parmalat collapsed in 2003 with a 14bn euro ($20bn; £13bn) hole in its accounts in what remains Europe's biggest bankruptcy. " , it reflected on Parma of course, they was obliged to selll their best players Buffon , Cannavaro, Thuram,Crespo etc and they stopped to be a top club. This was the reason of Serie A decline , in 2000s Lazio ( Because of Cirio , a company founded by Cragnotti , it was similar to Parmalat. .) Parma ( because of Parmalat) Fiorentina ( because of Cecchi Gori ) collasped . The football is simply : if you have money to get best players in the world you win , otherwise you stay in mediocity. It happened for Italian clubs.
Relativey about Parma . now it seemed to have fouind a good stability under Ghirardi but he proved to be a fraud and the future is black . Parma hasn't even same user base than Napoli,Fiorentina etc had. It is not a big city and they have fans basically just at Parma.
So it is basically same club as always, I mean they preserved name, trophies, colours , all , only difference with AC - ACF but who cares.
Fiorentina had just to change temporarily its name in " Florentia Viola " after the bankruptcy , but then they got back all under Della Valle
Same thing made from other important bankrupted clubs as Napoli ( I remind when they were called temporarily " Napoli Soccer " before of buying back everything) , Torino etc
So it is not a real problem , Parma will do as Rangers, Fiorentina, Napoli and Torino, they will get back everything a day supposedly, but we must understand how they will start over after bankrupt ( it looks like likely) .
If it will be Serie B because they will benefit of " piloted bankrupt " (described above) as Bari did , or if they will have to begin from 4th or 5th division
Parma never played in Serie A till 1990 , then they were bought by Tanzi ,the founder of Parmalat , and they won many trophies with Parmalat money becoming the Italian club with more European trophies after the 3 Itlalian giants Juventus Milan Inter .
Then " Parmalat collapsed in 2003 with a 14bn euro ($20bn; £13bn) hole in its accounts in what remains Europe's biggest bankruptcy. " , it reflected on Parma of course, they was obliged to selll their best players Buffon , Cannavaro, Thuram,Crespo etc and they stopped to be a top club. This was the reason of Serie A decline , in 2000s Lazio ( Because of Cirio , a company founded by Cragnotti , it was similar to Parmalat. .) Parma ( because of Parmalat) Fiorentina ( because of Cecchi Gori ) collasped . The football is simply : if you have money to get best players in the world you win , otherwise you stay in mediocity. It happened for Italian clubs.
Relativey about Parma . now it seemed to have fouind a good stability under Ghirardi but he proved to be a fraud and the future is black . Parma hasn't even same user base than Napoli,Fiorentina etc had. It is not a big city and they have fans basically just at Parma.
Last edited by Robespierre on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:17 pm; edited 3 times in total
Robespierre- World Class Contributor
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Its all from that fat *bleep*...
salmano9- Fan Favorite
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Inter Milan Offer Their Own Team Bus To Financially Crippled Serie A Rivals Parma
Honor and grace
Honor and grace
zizzle- Fan Favorite
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Give them money, They can use public transport ffs
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Half honor and grace, half trolling AC the bus lesszizzle wrote:Inter Milan Offer Their Own Team Bus To Financially Crippled Serie A Rivals Parma
Honor and grace
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
‘Parma like the Titanic’
Parma team manager Sandro Melli says the club is ‘like the Titanic’ and reveals problems stretch back further than this season.
The Ducali are at risk of bankruptcy, with players having to wash their kits at home, and furniture from the dressing room being auctioned off.
“I’ve realised that we were on the Titanic,” Melli told Corriere dello Sport.
“Above deck it’s all first-class, beautiful, shiny, with people dancing, like [former President Tommaso] Ghirardi and [CEO Pietro] Leonardi. But then there’s the second level, the third.
“I thought we’d sink with the first obstacle we hit. The iceberg was the UEFA licence. Do you remember what happened to the Titanic?
“Those in first class were saved, those below were left to die. And obviously the captain, the one with the beard, goes down with his ship. Who’s the captain here? Donadoni of course.
“Since November 15, football has been over for Parma. Ever since Ghirardi came to tell us he wouldn’t be spending a penny on the club, we’ve no longer talked about football.
“The team went onto the field, but their heads weren’t there. You can’t win a game under those circumstances.
“I hope they [the new board] pay the people that work for them, I’m not interested in the rest.
“If I were Ghirardi, I would think about the hundreds of people who are ruined, and don’t know how to pay the mortgage, or their rent.
“I last had a salary in July, just the net amount, like Donadoni and the team. My wife [who works in the legal department of the club] hasn’t been paid since December 2013.
“Since last year, I could see that Parma were buying seven, eight, ten players every day, with little or no technical ability.
“That was something strange, that I couldn’t understand. That’s when I realised there was no way out.
“Everyone had moved to Parma, they were eating in popular restaurants every day, at Parma’s expense.”
Melli also alleges that club employees have paid for things out of their own pocket over the years.
“A few years ago, Ghirardi asked me to lend him €100,000 to pay a bonus that he promised to the team. It took three years to pay me back, and without even a thank you.
“At Parma nobody ever said: there is no money. They always talked of a liquidity problem. I, in my ignorance, never understood.
“Ghirardi and Leonardi would invoice €700,000-€800,000 in cash, yet there wasn’t €50 to get the vans out of the warehouse.
“That started in [Franco] Colomba’s year [2011-12], they took the fuel cards away and we had to stump up the money for petrol. Then getting reimbursed became more and more complicated.
“Whenever there was a deadline, there’d be a postponement. When they had to pay the players, they’d call them in and ask them to spread it over their contract.
“They’d take less, but for a year or two more. So the rope got a little bit longer, but sooner or later someone would be hanged.
“I know that Donadoni has plugged the occasional gap - €1000 here, €500 there…
“I just hope that the creditors can be paid, at least in part, we can save the sporting identity and get back some of the dignity which has been taken from us.
“I’m sorry for saying what I’ve said, maybe it’s not the right time. But I’ve kept everything inside for two years and I can’t take it anymore.”
http://www.football-italia.net/63123/%E2%80%98parma-titanic%E2%80%99
Parma team manager Sandro Melli says the club is ‘like the Titanic’ and reveals problems stretch back further than this season.
The Ducali are at risk of bankruptcy, with players having to wash their kits at home, and furniture from the dressing room being auctioned off.
“I’ve realised that we were on the Titanic,” Melli told Corriere dello Sport.
“Above deck it’s all first-class, beautiful, shiny, with people dancing, like [former President Tommaso] Ghirardi and [CEO Pietro] Leonardi. But then there’s the second level, the third.
“I thought we’d sink with the first obstacle we hit. The iceberg was the UEFA licence. Do you remember what happened to the Titanic?
“Those in first class were saved, those below were left to die. And obviously the captain, the one with the beard, goes down with his ship. Who’s the captain here? Donadoni of course.
“Since November 15, football has been over for Parma. Ever since Ghirardi came to tell us he wouldn’t be spending a penny on the club, we’ve no longer talked about football.
“The team went onto the field, but their heads weren’t there. You can’t win a game under those circumstances.
“I hope they [the new board] pay the people that work for them, I’m not interested in the rest.
“If I were Ghirardi, I would think about the hundreds of people who are ruined, and don’t know how to pay the mortgage, or their rent.
“I last had a salary in July, just the net amount, like Donadoni and the team. My wife [who works in the legal department of the club] hasn’t been paid since December 2013.
“Since last year, I could see that Parma were buying seven, eight, ten players every day, with little or no technical ability.
“That was something strange, that I couldn’t understand. That’s when I realised there was no way out.
“Everyone had moved to Parma, they were eating in popular restaurants every day, at Parma’s expense.”
Melli also alleges that club employees have paid for things out of their own pocket over the years.
“A few years ago, Ghirardi asked me to lend him €100,000 to pay a bonus that he promised to the team. It took three years to pay me back, and without even a thank you.
“At Parma nobody ever said: there is no money. They always talked of a liquidity problem. I, in my ignorance, never understood.
“Ghirardi and Leonardi would invoice €700,000-€800,000 in cash, yet there wasn’t €50 to get the vans out of the warehouse.
“That started in [Franco] Colomba’s year [2011-12], they took the fuel cards away and we had to stump up the money for petrol. Then getting reimbursed became more and more complicated.
“Whenever there was a deadline, there’d be a postponement. When they had to pay the players, they’d call them in and ask them to spread it over their contract.
“They’d take less, but for a year or two more. So the rope got a little bit longer, but sooner or later someone would be hanged.
“I know that Donadoni has plugged the occasional gap - €1000 here, €500 there…
“I just hope that the creditors can be paid, at least in part, we can save the sporting identity and get back some of the dignity which has been taken from us.
“I’m sorry for saying what I’ve said, maybe it’s not the right time. But I’ve kept everything inside for two years and I can’t take it anymore.”
http://www.football-italia.net/63123/%E2%80%98parma-titanic%E2%80%99
Robespierre- World Class Contributor
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Several ex Parma players and legends have spoken, Melli, Apolloni, Pisanu, Benarrivo, Crespo as well as current players. It confirmed for me Ghirahdi is 2nd Tanzi at lesser scale except he might get away with no jail time. The man had a nerve to come out recently and blamed Taci not spending money, probably the most hatedam now in Parma. Also pointed out the corruption and decline started with Leonardi arrival.
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Parma is selling also Donadoni ' s bench and furniture dressing's locking room (auction sale)
Is anyone interested here ?
Is anyone interested here ?
Robespierre- World Class Contributor
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Re: Parma bankruptcy: Where was FFP?
Loooooooooooooooool link me
Tomwin Lannister- Ballon d'Or Contender
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