As the table stands: 1 La Liga title in 7 years for Real Madrid

The Franchise wrote:The only reason is Cristiano? I cant believe I have to defend this oily baby but its defiantly not his fault this season.

He is more unselfish than any other season and overall Madrid have scored alot of goals, enough to win any season. But looking at it, they have just let in alot more goals than Barca.

im not blaming him for this season just meant overall, idk how many madrid games you followed over the years, but as i said i have seen plenty of games where other player could step up, but end up differing to cr a lot, cause he flapping and screaming his lungs out for every chance

its got so bad that cr missed couple games and the entire team was clueless which shouldn't be the case at all, with so many star players, eventually the team got over it

just saying his ego and hunger for goals does more harm than good, what the point of breaking all these records if it means the team wins nothing?

Ronaldo has won us games this season by himself. So has benzema and james.

Our attack wasn't the problem chad. It's the headless chickens we have in defense and our lack of DM cover. Add to casillas being a complete washed up poser these days.

chad4401 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:The only reason is Cristiano? I cant believe I have to defend this oily baby but its defiantly not his fault this season.

He is more unselfish than any other season and overall Madrid have scored alot of goals, enough to win any season. But looking at it, they have just let in alot more goals than Barca.

im not blaming him for this season just meant overall, idk how many madrid games you followed over the years, but as i said i have seen plenty of games where other player could step up, but end up differing to cr a lot, cause he flapping and screaming his lungs out for every chance

its got so bad that cr missed couple games and the entire team was clueless which shouldn't be the case at all, with so many star players, eventually the team got over it

just saying his ego and hunger for goals does more harm than good, what the point of breaking all these records if it means the team wins nothing?

You can't blame Ronaldo man, seriously.

Mamad wrote:Well it isn't us. it's Messi and Barca. they have been too good.

I don't think Barcelona has been the better team for 7 straight, consecutive years now. If anything, they've been better at keeping their ship steady, even when they've been out of form and their morale has been low for various reasons. Mourinho's RM somehow managed to consistently churn out wins after coming back from behind, but generally speaking; when RM are out of form, they struggle against any side that manages to bring the ball into their own half.

There's been a worrying lack of stability in the team this season, and I don't recall any previous league winning seasons, or any trophy winning seasons for that matter, where the team has performed as inconsistently as they have this season. I think we had stability back in october-november, but I don't know what happened to it. I don't believe injuries alone are to blame. Maybe CR7 pissed off some African witch doctor again.

chad4401 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:The only reason is Cristiano? I cant believe I have to defend this oily baby but its defiantly not his fault this season.

He is more unselfish than any other season and overall Madrid have scored alot of goals, enough to win any season. But looking at it, they have just let in alot more goals than Barca.

im not blaming him for this season just meant overall, idk how many madrid games you followed over the years, but as i said i have seen plenty of games where other player could step up, but end up differing to cr a lot, cause he flapping and screaming his lungs out for every chance

its got so bad that cr missed couple games and the entire team was clueless which shouldn't be the case at all, with so many star players, eventually the team got over it

just saying his ego and hunger for goals does more harm than good, what the point of breaking all these records if it means the team wins nothing?

There is no doubt Cristiano has flaws, some big ones and his overall style of play and antics...I have no love for.

But if you were to write up a list of reasons as to why Madrid havent won so much in this timeframe, Cristiano couldnt be at the top or really that much near it.

You can surely think of a good 4-5 other things which are a bigger problem than his selfish attitude.

Four seasons before Cronaldo

Real Madrid 05-09 4 trophies (Ligax2, CDR, SSC)

Four seasons with Cronaldo

Real Madrid 09-13 3 trophies (Liga, CDR, SSC)

Two seasons with Bale

Real Madrid 13-15 4 trophies (UCL, CDR, USC, FCWC)

The Franchise wrote:

chad4401 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:The only reason is Cristiano? I cant believe I have to defend this oily baby but its defiantly not his fault this season.

He is more unselfish than any other season and overall Madrid have scored alot of goals, enough to win any season. But looking at it, they have just let in alot more goals than Barca.

im not blaming him for this season just meant overall, idk how many madrid games you followed over the years, but as i said i have seen plenty of games where other player could step up, but end up differing to cr a lot, cause he flapping and screaming his lungs out for every chance

its got so bad that cr missed couple games and the entire team was clueless which shouldn't be the case at all, with so many star players, eventually the team got over it

just saying his ego and hunger for goals does more harm than good, what the point of breaking all these records if it means the team wins nothing?

There is no doubt Cristiano has flaws, some big ones and his overall style of play and antics...I have no love for.

But if you were to write up a list of reasons as to why Madrid havent won so much in this timeframe, Cristiano couldnt be at the top or really that much near it.

You can surely think of a good 4-5 other things which are a bigger problem than his selfish attitude.

Dani I agree with Chad to some extent. In fact I write a long post on this maybe 2 years ago, perhaps 3 of you can remember about CR being a double edged sword. When a team is geared towards one person scoring what happens to the players around him? He isn't a winger but does occupy the #9 position so that means that there is constantly a space for the opposition to exploit. it never really mattered in small games but in the big games against teams of a similar level, that fine detail always can be exploited. The bayern tie vs Madrid in 12 is a great one. When Lahm ran down the wing to cross and overlapped marcelo it was CRs lack of tracking back that meant Marcelo was overloaded and led directly to Gomez winner.

His positioning makes Madrid tilt and meaning that when they are hit in he break their defenders are always outnumbered because Marcelo has to go up to create width. Carlo solved this by playingeneral Di Maria on the lefto side as a runner and then playing a 442 minus Bale.

Imore not going to go into bigger details bit I think that he is one of the main reasons Madrid hasn't won as much.

jibers wrote:He isn't a winger but does occupy the #9 position so that means that there is constantly a space for the opposition to exploit. it never really mattered in small games but in the big games against teams of a similar level, that fine detail always can be exploited. The bayern tie vs Madrid in 12 is a great one. When Lahm ran down the wing to cross and overlapped marcelo it was CRs lack of tracking back that meant Marcelo was overloaded and led directly to Gomez winner.

His positioning makes Madrid tilt and meaning that when they are hit in he break their defenders are always outnumbered because Marcelo has to go up to create width. Carlo solved this by playingeneral Di Maria on the lefto side as a runner and then playing a 442 minus Bale.

Imore not going to go into bigger details bit I think that he is one of the main reasons Madrid hasn't won as much.

Come on, you could say the exact same thing about Messi

Messi and Ronaldo are two of the best attacking players in history. It's up to the manager to utilize them as best as possible, in a way where their attacking talents are exploited and their defensive lapses covered.

Relying on Messi or Ronaldo to track back and defend against a fullback's overlapping run in a big game is just stupid tactics.

lol speaking of cruyff, he once yelled at romario when he saw him further away from goal, saying he didn't need him to defend but needed him well rested to concentrate primarilly on scoring. on the flip side of things, i agree with chad with respect to guys deferring to cristiano all the time....if he is in a good position to score, yes, pass to him. but passing to him all the time especially in a non-scoring/ non-counter situation doesn't help, he's not a playmaker and nothing may come out of that....its high time other guys start stepping up to the table. as far as tracking back, if u're occupying the left side of the pitch u have to help ure wingback, but when u're tasked with scoring, a winger who is practically a forward, it makes that a very complicated situation....but hey, its the coach's job to figure out how to solve such issues

Harmonica wrote:Four seasons before Cronaldo

Real Madrid 05-09 4 trophies (Ligax2, CDR, SSC)

Four seasons with Cronaldo

Real Madrid 09-13 3 trophies (Liga, CDR, SSC)

Two seasons with Bale

Real Madrid 13-15 4 trophies (UCL, CDR, USC, FCWC)

Cruijf wrote:

jibers wrote:He isn't a winger but does occupy the #9 position so that means that there is constantly a space for the opposition to exploit. it never really mattered in small games but in the big games against teams of a similar level, that fine detail always can be exploited. The bayern tie vs Madrid in 12 is a great one. When Lahm ran down the wing to cross and overlapped marcelo it was CRs lack of tracking back that meant Marcelo was overloaded and led directly to Gomez winner.

His positioning makes Madrid tilt and meaning that when they are hit in he break their defenders are always outnumbered because Marcelo has to go up to create width. Carlo solved this by playingeneral Di Maria on the lefto side as a runner and then playing a 442 minus Bale.

Imore not going to go into bigger details bit I think that he is one of the main reasons Madrid hasn't won as much.

Come on, you could say the exact same thing about Messi

Messi and Ronaldo are two of the best attacking players in history. It's up to the manager to utilize them as best as possible, in a way where their attacking talents are exploited and their defensive lapses covered.

Relying on Messi or Ronaldo to track back and defend against a fullback's overlapping run in a big game is just stupid tactics.

CR greatest attacking player of all time? okay...

Stupid tactics? You clearly know nothing about the sport On more than a superficial level. If CR was coming inside and Bemzema is creating space for him to make his runs by occupying the cbs that means that a team would have a free man on the right and so the lb of Madrid is occupied by the winger and the fb on that flank. using CR in that way unbalanced the team and means that with enough quality on the flanks Madrid are exposeD.

If anyone can think back to the 3-1 win away in Madid in 2011 where Alves dominated the flank with CR and Marcelo. That ended up being a 1 v 1 because CR came inside and there was never any thoughts of exploiting the flank.

The way people get the best out of him unbalanced the squad except for last year and the 442 this year when you have a freak like Di Maria covering the centre and flank as well as he could and then Isco being the left sided mf.

Messi of course brings his own problems. Enrique is currently using him as a sort of am/cm/rw hybrid so that means that the right sided mf (rak) had to cover the flanks and work very hard which is why he looks gassed at the end of every match. Had Bayern had Ribery fit for that match he would have caused a lot of trouble down that flank. We are not taking a both Messi. We are talking about Ronaldo.

jibers wrote:
Dani I agree with Chad to some extent. In fact I write a long post on this maybe 2 years ago, perhaps 3 of you can remember about CR being a double edged sword. When a team is geared towards one person scoring what happens to the players around him? He isn't a winger but does occupy the #9 position so that means that there is constantly a space for the opposition to exploit. it never really mattered in small games but in the big games against teams of a similar level, that fine detail always can be exploited. The bayern tie vs Madrid in 12 is a great one. When Lahm ran down the wing to cross and overlapped marcelo it was CRs lack of tracking back that meant Marcelo was overloaded and led directly to Gomez winner.

His positioning makes Madrid tilt and meaning that when they are hit in he break their defenders are always outnumbered because Marcelo has to go up to create width. Carlo solved this by playingeneral Di Maria on the lefto side as a runner and then playing a 442 minus Bale.

Imore not going to go into bigger details bit I think that he is one of the main reasons Madrid hasn't won as much.

I agree with all that, like I said he has some flaws and I dont even like his game. I dont enjoy watching him play and it has nothing to do with Madrid. All you things you said, I agree with.

But if I were to list some reasons why Madrid didnt win more in these times I would add.

-Iker being finished, letting in avoidable goals for a long time now
-Ramos and Pepe over aggresion. The dont have composure and let runners behind them way too often.
-Marcelo not having defensive awareness
-Poorly balanced midfield which lacks quality till recently. Khedira
-Horrific set peice defending

All these 5 to me have been bigger problems than Cristiano[/quote]

[quote="The Franchise"]

jibers wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Dani I agree with Chad to some extent. In fact I write a long post on this maybe 2 years ago, perhaps 3 of you can remember about CR being a double edged sword. When a team is geared towards one person scoring what happens to the players around him? He isn't a winger but does occupy the #9 position so that means that there is constantly a space for the opposition to exploit. it never really mattered in small games but in the big games against teams of a similar level, that fine detail always can be exploited. The bayern tie vs Madrid in 12 is a great one. When Lahm ran down the wing to cross and overlapped marcelo it was CRs lack of tracking back that meant Marcelo was overloaded and led directly to Gomez winner.

His positioning makes Madrid tilt and meaning that when they are hit in he break their defenders are always outnumbered because Marcelo has to go up to create width. Carlo solved this by playingeneral Di Maria on the lefto side as a runner and then playing a 442 minus Bale.

Imore not going to go into bigger details bit I think that he is one of the main reasons Madrid hasn't won as much.

I agree with all that, like I said he has some flaws and I dont even like his game. I dont enjoy watching him play and it has nothing to do with Madrid. All you things you said, I agree with.

But if I were to list some reasons why Madrid didnt win more in these times I would add.

-Iker being finished, letting in avoidable goals for a long time now
-Ramos and Pepe over aggresion. The dont have composure and let runners behind them way too often.
-Marcelo not having defensive awareness
-Poorly balanced midfield which lacks quality till recently. Khedira
-Horrific set peice defending

All these 5 to me have been bigger problems than Cristiano

The CR problem accentuates Marcelos defensive weakness. If knowing that he still has to go against 2 players then CR then that is a problem.

again the defensive weakness of the team is even more pronounced when the shape is determined to get one player to get into the best goal scoring positions. I agree on Pepe and Ramos looool.

Still both look like Baresi and Nesta when compare to other cb pairings on Europe tbh.

I think it's down mainly to one thing.

Real Madrid's inherent lack of authority for the coach.

At Real, the players are bigger than the manager.
It's the principle of the club, and it has advantages and disadvantages.

Mourinho managed to overcome that for a short while.

And lo and behold he won the league and ended Real's ridiculous CL underperformance.

But at the end of the day he was still Mourinho lol so he didn't make friends anywhere, neither by his behaviour nor the quality of his football, and eventually player power struck back.

I'd argue spending half a billion had just a big of an impact on ending Real's CL underperformance as Mourinho did.

People forget how much they spent because they were obsessed with overhauling Barca.

Hapless_Hans wrote:I think it's down mainly to one thing.

Real Madrid's inherent lack of authority for the coach.

At Real, the players are bigger than the manager.
It's the principle of the club, and it has advantages and disadvantages.

Mourinho managed to overcome that for a short while.

And lo and behold he won the league and ended Real's ridiculous CL underperformance.

But at the end of the day he was still Mourinho lol so he didn't make friends anywhere, neither by his behaviour nor the quality of his football, and eventually player power struck back.

This is true as well. It's all the above points combined tbh.

I think many of the above mentioned points are sub-points of the one I made

Hapless_Hans wrote:I think many of the above mentioned points are sub-points of the one I made

Stfu and worry about your own team. Too many people are obsessed with our club. We will probably bear juve tomorrow as well. Hala Madrid!

@franchise i agree that cr can't be the sole reason for the lack of titles, but i think he is/was the root of a lot of problems

he makes everything about him, still needs to stop flipping out when a teammates score

ruins the shape, worse than messi at least messi stay in the center, while cr walks about on the wings

the team never developed proper teamwork, cause of all the seasons of pass the ball to cr, and the rest of the guys pick up the scraps

lastly cr prevent his teammates from stepping up, cause he wants to be the savior all the time

i truly believe this rm team even under mou was always as good as pep barca team, just couldn't over come mainly due to being so focused on cr and cr himself is shitty team player unlike messi, that big handicap imo

These are reasons why i used to say that, the only player that plays to their potential on the team was cr and everybody else was servants that can't win championships but will break records for cr though, just like what happening now

jibers wrote:

CR greatest attacking player of all time? okay...

Stupid tactics? You clearly know nothing about the sport On more than a superficial level. If CR was coming inside and Bemzema is creating space for him to make his runs by occupying the cbs that means that a team would have a free man on the right and so the lb of Madrid is occupied by the winger and the fb on that flank. using CR in that way unbalanced the team and means that with enough quality on the flanks Madrid are exposeD.

If anyone can think back to the 3-1 win away in Madid in 2011 where Alves dominated the flank with CR and Marcelo. That ended up being a 1 v 1 because CR came inside and there was never any thoughts of exploiting the flank.

The way people get the best out of him unbalanced the squad except for last year and the 442 this year when you have a freak like Di Maria covering the centre and flank as well as he could and then Isco being the left sided mf.

Messi of course brings his own problems. Enrique is currently using him as a sort of am/cm/rw hybrid so that means that the right sided mf (rak) had to cover the flanks and work very hard which is why he looks gassed at the end of every match. Had Bayern had Ribery fit for that match he would have caused a lot of trouble down that flank. We are not taking a both Messi. We are talking about Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is one of the best attacking players of all time, yes. That is undeniable.

As for the rest of your post, what you're saying is nothing new and I agree on Ronaldo playing LW leaving a 2v1 on that wing. The 4-4-2 of this year or the 4-3-3 of last year are exactly what I mean by saying they make full use of Ronaldo. From around February or so of last year until the 2014 winter break, we saw the best Real Madrid and the best Ronaldo we've had for a long time.

Again, I'm not sure where we disagree - what I'm saying is to play Ronaldo in a traditional wing role where he is limited to taking on his man, crossing, and then tracking back, is downright stupid. Tactics like Carlo's 4-4-2 not only maintain balance, but make the best use of Ronaldo because he is allowed to move more centrally without fear of leaving his fullback exposed.