Copa América 2015

Fußball wrote:Because Hazard doesn't dribble or create like Messi.

Don't let me post some Whoscored/Squawka stats. And even if he doesn't there's no shame in being 2nd best to the best ever.

Messi in the past 12 months (a little less) has played in WC Final, CdR Final, CL Final and now Copa Final (so has Masche).

Gil wrote:

Fußball wrote:Because Hazard doesn't dribble or create like Messi.

Don't let me post some Whoscored/Squawka stats. And even if he doesn't there's no shame in being 2nd best to the best ever.

And you wonder why he gets criticized

Gil just stop pls

Gil wrote:

Fußball wrote:Because Hazard doesn't dribble or create like Messi.

Don't let me post some Whoscored/Squawka stats. And even if he doesn't there's no shame in being 2nd best to the best ever.

You can post whatever stats you want. But first spot the difference:







One player dribbles through the middle of the pitch past Pepe, Marcelo, Alonso and Ramos who are trying to hack him down before releasing a perfectly weighted throughball. The other does some generic cutbacks out wide where the most space is available like billions of generic wingers and still barely gets past one defender against a scrub team. That's why one players is getting praise for his dribbling and creating and the other doesn't.

Fuss have mercy Let the guy just reconsider his behaviour and move on

Also I want to add that dribbling in EPL is the easiest sport in the history of football.

Alexis Sanchez dribbling stats:

11/12: 0.9 per game
12/13: 0.9 per game
13/14: 1.1 per game

*moves to EPL*

14/15: 3.3 per game

Want another proof? No problem:

Suarez dribbling stats for Liverpool:

10/11: 3.2 per game
11/12: 2.4 per game
12/13: 2.2 per game
13/14: 2.8 per game

*moves to La Liga*

14/15: 1.3 per game



If Hazard is a man he comes to GOAT Liga and proves his worth like all the best players in the history of the sport have done.

Fußball wrote:

Gil wrote:

Fußball wrote:Because Hazard doesn't dribble or create like Messi.

Don't let me post some Whoscored/Squawka stats. And even if he doesn't there's no shame in being 2nd best to the best ever.

You can post whatever stats you want. But first spot the difference:







One player dribbles through the middle of the pitch past Pepe, Marcelo, Alonso and Ramos who are trying to hack him down before releasing a perfectly weighted throughball. The other does some generic cutbacks out wide where the most space is available like billions of generic wingers and still barely gets past one defender against a scrub team. That's why one players is getting praise for his dribbling and creating and the other doesn't.

Watch & educate yourself.


Hazard drifts centrally all the time & burns defences. Lol @ you trying to shame Hazard for playing out wide as if Messi didn't revive his career by moving back to RW.

Ok Hazard is as good as Messi. Gil you da man

/thread

Argentina are lucky MA boy ADM is fit for the final or they would lose it. They have the copa trophy in the bag tbh just sorting out some technicalities

Now Chile will win.

BusterLfc wrote:

Cruijf wrote:@Dnmac and Buster:

Disagree. Yes, South American football would be much better if it was able to keep its homegrown stars, but I still maintain its lagging behind in terms of producing the technically gifted players it used to. Brazil and Argentina used to produce midfield maestros, now other than Messi and Neymar all they can field are workhorses like Mascherano and David Luiz. Why? Because the ability to kick and be kicked is valued over technique, a complete reversal of the historical attitude. While Europe has produced Iniesta, Xavi, Pirlo, Busquets, Kroos, Ozil, and all the rest, South America has produced very very little, especially compared to what they used to produce.

In my post above I praise Pastore, but ask yourself what it means that he's been the best creative midfielder in the tournament. Socrates would be rolling in his grave.

First you mention SA clubs then you say it's not the clubs but players that play for national teams you are comparing, please decide already.

Alright then how do you explain the fact that Brazil doesn't have an elite DM or CM? Yet they have players like Coutinho, Firmino and Neymar as AMs/Wingers and Costa was supposed to be their striker.
Not to even mention Argentina. Messi, Tevez, Higuain, Aguero, Dybala, Icardi, Vietto as forwards is not that bad? Not to even mention how many options they have for AM/winger position. Yet they have to play the likes of Biglia and Gago as DMs.

And you're comparing Europe which is much bigger and has many elite footballing countries and South America which has really only 2 football giants yet they are still up there with Europe which they proved in the last World Cup with Argentina reaching the final and almost winning it had it not been Higuain's and Palacio's terrible misses and all of the SA teams proceeding from the group stages bar Ecuador.

It's like you started watching football right now, Copa America was always like this.

I told you SA clubs are far behind European clubs because the SA playstyle doesn't favor technical players. You said no it's because they can't keep their good players. I said their good players hardly live up to the creative technical players Europe has produced. I don't see the contradiction.

Then you list a bunch of attackers, which tells me nothing. "Tevez, Higuain, Aguero, Dybala, Icardi, Vietto" is who you listed along with Messi. None of these are creative technical players. Not one of them

And then you go on to say what SA actually lacks are CMs and DMs. You forget that in any decent team, and in the great SA teams in the past, the best players technically are the CMs and DMs.

It's been mentioned before on GL, but I'll reiterate it here: producing world class attackers like Messi and Neymar means nothing when creative midfielders and world class defenders have seemingly gone extinct. People say Argentina is overflowing with talent, but why do you think they parked the bus in the world cup? Because they lack even a single world class CM. Instead they have Mascherano, the epitome of modern SA football.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood my original post, but either way I believe you just made my point for me

im pretty sure this is one of SA's overall highest points in terms of talent, probably the highest. back in the day there rarely were upsets, even in the lowest points of Arg and Brazil. Peru, Colombia, Chile etc used to be joke NTs

we are the only NT who are behind in terms of human material, and even then we still have some decent and some world class players.  

i dont see how there is such a huge gap between SA and Europe. hell, even concacaf has shortened the gap. its a shame we we didnt have more europe x SA games in the WC. there was the 7-1, but that was a aberration of football.  

and CA was always more thuggery than football, terrible way to judge how good x team or x players is.

Honestly it surprises me a lot how big of thugs these players can be and play tough at CA for their NT's but a lot of them don't ever translate that grit to the club level. I just don't get it.

Because at club level they'd get sent off

Cruijf wrote:

BusterLfc wrote:

Cruijf wrote:@Dnmac and Buster:

Disagree. Yes, South American football would be much better if it was able to keep its homegrown stars, but I still maintain its lagging behind in terms of producing the technically gifted players it used to. Brazil and Argentina used to produce midfield maestros, now other than Messi and Neymar all they can field are workhorses like Mascherano and David Luiz. Why? Because the ability to kick and be kicked is valued over technique, a complete reversal of the historical attitude. While Europe has produced Iniesta, Xavi, Pirlo, Busquets, Kroos, Ozil, and all the rest, South America has produced very very little, especially compared to what they used to produce.

In my post above I praise Pastore, but ask yourself what it means that he's been the best creative midfielder in the tournament. Socrates would be rolling in his grave.

First you mention SA clubs then you say it's not the clubs but players that play for national teams you are comparing, please decide already.

Alright then how do you explain the fact that Brazil doesn't have an elite DM or CM? Yet they have players like Coutinho, Firmino and Neymar as AMs/Wingers and Costa was supposed to be their striker.
Not to even mention Argentina. Messi, Tevez, Higuain, Aguero, Dybala, Icardi, Vietto as forwards is not that bad? Not to even mention how many options they have for AM/winger position. Yet they have to play the likes of Biglia and Gago as DMs.

And you're comparing Europe which is much bigger and has many elite footballing countries and South America which has really only 2 football giants yet they are still up there with Europe which they proved in the last World Cup with Argentina reaching the final and almost winning it had it not been Higuain's and Palacio's terrible misses and all of the SA teams proceeding from the group stages bar Ecuador.

It's like you started watching football right now, Copa America was always like this.

I told you SA clubs are far behind European clubs because the SA playstyle doesn't favor technical players. You said no it's because they can't keep their good players. I said their good players hardly live up to the creative technical players Europe has produced. I don't see the contradiction.

Then you list a bunch of attackers, which tells me nothing. "Tevez, Higuain, Aguero, Dybala, Icardi, Vietto" is who you listed along with Messi. None of these are creative technical players. Not one of them

And then you go on to say what SA actually lacks are CMs and DMs. You forget that in any decent team, and in the great SA teams in the past, the best players technically are the CMs and DMs.

It's been mentioned before on GL, but I'll reiterate it here: producing world class attackers like Messi and Neymar means nothing when creative midfielders and world class defenders have seemingly gone extinct. People say Argentina is overflowing with talent, but why do you think they parked the bus in the world cup? Because they lack even a single world class CM. Instead they have Mascherano, the epitome of modern SA football.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood my original post, but either way I believe you just made my point for me

"I told you SA clubs are far behind European clubs because the SA playstyle doesn't favor technical players."

LOL, Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Kun, Tevez, Alexis Sanchez I could go on and on are probably the most technically gifted players on earth.  None of them are all that physically imposing and in fact all except Neymar and Suarez are probably undersized.

Suarez and Messi are the 2 of the top 3 players who tops the assist list, you know who else is high on it?  James who let me guess you're just going to call a forward.  Di Maria is technically gifted and creative when played in the correct position.

Dybala and Franco Vasquez are tied for the lead in assists in Serie A last season.  Icardi, Tevez and Higgy are 3 of the 4 top goal scorers.

I mean seriously what leagues are these guys not dominating?

How are they not "creative"?  Messi is playing as a full on attacking midfielder for Argentina, James is a midfielder Masche and Pastore have been immense you can add to the list Arturo Vidal and the laundry list of talented mids not even suiting up/barely playing in this tournament like Oscar, Banega, Coutinho, Firmino.

I mean I could go on and on.

LOL at this point,

when creative midfielders and world class defenders have seemingly gone extinct.


They have the most "creative" defenders in the world with Marcelo, Alves, David Luiz (who can play all over the field), Zabaleta

Not to mention a whose who of star defenders like the ones mentioned above and here, Thiago Silva, Otamendi, Diego Godin, Marquinhos, Miranda.

I'm leaving a staggering amount of players off of these lists as well.

I don't quite know where you're getting your information from.  Maybe you should see it as a skill to lead / be close to the top of a league in Goals and Assists.  You are pigeon holing a ton of hybrid players.

halamadrid2 wrote:Argentina are lucky MA boy ADM is fit for the final or they would lose it. They have the copa trophy in the bag tbh just sorting out some technicalities

Pls he's been playing like shit all tournament

LVG has ruined him

Fußball wrote:Also I want to add that dribbling in EPL is the easiest sport in the history of football.

Alexis Sanchez dribbling stats:

11/12: 0.9 per game
12/13: 0.9 per game
13/14: 1.1 per game

*moves to EPL*

14/15: 3.3 per game

Want another proof? No problem:

Suarez dribbling stats for Liverpool:

10/11: 3.2 per game
11/12: 2.4 per game
12/13: 2.2 per game
13/14: 2.8 per game

*moves to La Liga*

14/15: 1.3 per game



If Hazard is a man he comes to GOAT Liga and proves his worth like all the best players in the history of the sport have done.

I don't like those examples because at Barcelona, I don't believe players have as much freedom as they would at most other clubs. I'm glad to still see some flair/trickery from Neymar, but I'm sure you would see more of that from him when playing at Santos. All that being said.... Gil

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:Argentina are lucky MA boy ADM is fit for the final or they would lose it. They have the copa trophy in the bag tbh just sorting out some technicalities

Pls he's been playing like shit all tournament

LVG has ruined him

This. Revisionism at its finest. Di Maria is a counter attacking player. He doesn't suit our style. Simple. Nothing to do with ruining.

ranDOM 10 wrote:

Fußball wrote:Also I want to add that dribbling in EPL is the easiest sport in the history of football.

Alexis Sanchez dribbling stats:

11/12: 0.9 per game
12/13: 0.9 per game
13/14: 1.1 per game

*moves to EPL*

14/15: 3.3 per game

Want another proof? No problem:

Suarez dribbling stats for Liverpool:

10/11: 3.2 per game
11/12: 2.4 per game
12/13: 2.2 per game
13/14: 2.8 per game

*moves to La Liga*

14/15: 1.3 per game



If Hazard is a man he comes to GOAT Liga and proves his worth like all the best players in the history of the sport have done.

I don't like those examples because at Barcelona, I don't believe players have as much freedom as they would at most other clubs. I'm glad to still see some flair/trickery from Neymar, but I'm sure you would see more of that from him when playing at Santos. All that being said.... Gil

Add to the fact that Barcelona play packed defences every week and the comparison is even more daft. Didn't expect anything less though.

Considering Paraguay knocked out Brazil, they must feel really lucky not to have played against this Messi

of course we do. thank you TS and Paraguay

1990: Argentina lost to Germany 1-0
1991: won Copa America on Chilean soil

2014: Argentina lost to Germany 1-0
2015: ???

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI78qT7VAAAM80R.jpg

Ref for Chile-Argentina's supposed fb

Thank you Grondona for helping us from beyond the grave

can messi repeat what riquelme have done to claudio bravo & his gang in almost single handedly manner despite did not played any official match for several months?

riquelme vs chile, 2010 wc qualifying: