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The UK.  Not English.  Fine point Rincon.  It really killed the argument there.  You should make the debate team

Verratti was in Serie B and was offered a massive contract by PSG.  Sirigu was in Palermo and PSG offered him a HUGE contract too.  Rossi was born and raised in the US.  Only chose Italy after he was already a pro because it gave him a chance at more NT glory than the US.

I mentioned the guys that left at the end or after their prime like Toni, Cannavaro, etc.

I said top Italian players who were clearly targeted by top domestic clubs but left for abroad.  Not very many.  Even Barzagli was basically stuck in Palermo and needed a boost for his career and had to leave for it.

And please stop mentioning scrubs or past it players ffs  Sansone?  Darmian?  Cerci?  Are any of these guys even worth mentioning?

How exactly is going to Manchster City lead to something higher than staying at Juventus? a club is part of, and loyal to.

At Juventus he is much more likely to win everything, leagues and cups. He is also more likely to become a captain, he identifies with the club immensely, he is at home.

Chasing a challenge doesn't mean ambition. Messi going to Celta would be a great challenge for him to win there, doesn't mean its more ambitious than going for trophies in Barcelona.

Manchester City has like 2 league titles in its history and no significant impact in european competitions. Bonucci at Juve has more trophies than City's history, he also has a higher finish in the CL than they have ever achieved.

Strange concept of ambition that one.

I'm just comparing relative ambition...  other than winning the CL, there's nothing more to achieve at Juve.

At City, it's the challenge of new league, winning CL, making a lot more money, expanding you horizons both in life and in football with a manager like Pep, etc.

Bonucci doesn't lack ambition....  I'm just saying that his ambitions are narrower now (and rightly so) while, when you're younger, your ambitions tend to be much broader and far reaching in scope.

I'm not even criticizing or belittling him ffs.

You just make excuse after excuse every time you say some nonsense. Verratti doesn't count because...? Sirigu who was starting keeper for PSG doesn't count because he got more money? what? how is that even a question? if you leave your country for a bigger team obviously you make more money.

Be a little introspective and look at your own list.
Rudiger, Schurrle, Trapp, Mustafi, Ter Stegen. Same level, same achievements, same motivations.

Why does this even matter? what point are you trying to make? That Italian are afraid of flying?

Although I will say that this age (29+) is when really good Italian players typically leave for foreign seas to get a big payday and try a new adventure... I actually admire Bonucci for staying here. He had a lot more to lose and not a whole lot to gain. His quality is undeniable.

Anyhow, moving on.

I'm just debating. Not saying I'm right or wrong and not saying that you're right or wrong either... we're just exchanging arguments. Sometime my arguments are better and sometimes others'... it's not being a "know it all" to offer differing perspectives. It's healthy in fact. I read everything that people say against my arguments and, although I won't admit it because it would kill the debate, I agree with a lot of what many people say.

Rincon, Luca, Tom and Gigi are great posters just so you know. Learn a lot by reading their stuff.

Cut the crap sportczy lol...

If Man United didn't have the money, they would be in the gutter for many years to come, unlike Juve who rose from the gutter to win the league for 5 years in a row and is now aiming for the Champions League. What ambition are you talking about with United? United is done, history and now all they got is the money. For me United was Sir Alex Fergusson and now they're just $$$$.

@Rincon...  before Sirigu came to PSG, he was nobody.  He was at Palermo and very few wanted him.  PSG paid 3.8 mil for him.  Same with Verratti... he was a talent.  He wanted to go to Juve.  But PSG offered him a huge contract for having never played in Serie A and Juve refused to match it.  That's how he ended up at PSG.

Schurrle was fantastic in Bundi.  Trapp as well.  Top players in their league and there was a lot of competition for their services.  Ter Stegen as well.  They were blocked in the top 2 clubs in Bundi by Neuer and Weidenfeller.  For Schurrle, Chelsea gave him a huge offer and, again, he was blocked by Reus, Ribery, Robben, etc. in the top two clubs. So in order to play for a top club, they had to leave. They were by no means unknown qualities.

Sir Bobby Charlton, George Best, etc. would disagree with you... SAF brought in the glory years. But Man U were definitely a good club before him.

sportsczy wrote:Sir Bobby Charlton, George Best, etc. would disagree with you... SAF brought in the glory years. But Man U were definitely a good club before him.

If i am not wrong, they only won 4/5 league titles before SAF came. They weren't great until SAF came in.

sportsczy wrote:@Rincon...  before Sirigu came to PSG, he was nobody.  He was at Palermo and very few wanted him.  PSG paid 3.8 mil for him.  Same with Verratti... he was a talent.  He wanted to go to Juve.  But PSG offered him a huge contract for having never played in Serie A and Juve refused to match it.  That's how he ended up at PSG.

Schurrle was fantastic in Bundi.  Trapp as well.  Top players in their league and there was a lot of competition for their services.  Ter Stegen as well.  They were blocked in the top 2 clubs in Bundi by Neuer and Weidenfeller.  For Schurrle, Chelsea gave him a huge offer and, again, he was blocked by Reus, Ribery, Robben, etc. in the top two clubs.  So in order to play for a top club, they had to leave.  They were by no means unknown qualities.

Nope, sorry. You know everything about french football and Madrid but here you are out of your depth.

Sirigu was not a nobody he was an Italian international and starter for a very good Palermo team. There is a reason he was signed for PSG in their ambitious project. Basically the exact same situation as Trapp. Balzaretti, Nocerino, Cassani, Sirigu all made the NT from that team because they were playing really well, you had Pastore and Miccoli too.

Verratti was one of the few Serie B players to represent Italy. He was absolutely a known quality and lit up Serie B with Pescara. He literally had his pick of teams in Serie A but Juve wouldn't pay the fee and decided to go for Pogba instead. PSG dropped the cash and he basically became a starter immediately. No one doubted Verratti, making the jump straight from Serie B to PSG and the national team is proof.

Mustafi went to Sampdoria... thats how big of a move that was. And he didn't even move from Germany. Rudiger moved under very low expectations, which he wasn't even fulfilling until later in the season were he finally impressed.

"Are any of these guys worth mentioning"

For all your criticism Darmian, Italy's starting fullback, moving to United is bigger move. Barzagli, a world cup champion, moved under much more expectations and success to Wolfsburg than Mustafi ever did. He was the captain of Palermo and went on to win the league with Wolfsburg.

But of course, Schurrle gets excuses about how he didnt't make it at Chelsea. But Immobile whose capocannoniere with Torino is a bigger achievement that Schurrle ever had on a personal level, doesn't.

Keeping your good talent within the league is a point of pride, I'm still not sure what the point is.

You're rewriting history to fit your argument Rincon.... that's fine.  Sirigu hasn't even been that good at PSG.  Better than Douchez... but that's about it lol.  They're been trying to sell him all summer but nobody will take him because of his wage.  He's basically sitting at home waiting for an offer. When PSG bought him, they had no options. Certainly weren't going to have Douchez as the regular. They tried to get Lloris after that but he wanted to leave Ligue 1. Finally settled for Trapp.

Barzagli... played as a sub against Australia and had to start in the QF due to suspension of Materazzi and Nesta's injury.  Barzagli was supposed to go to Fiorentina but Fiorentina backed out at the last minute.  His contract at Wolfsburg was 3 years/3.1 mil total.   Fiorentina offered him 5 years/1.5 mil total.  He just wasn't getting serious offers in Italy.

Mustafi was a youth player for Everton.  He actually left Germany extremely early.  He's a special case like Pogba was.  

Juve went for Pogba because his transfer was free to go with the wages they would have to pay.  PSG paid 12 mil euros for Verratti and the same wage as Pogba got at Juve.  That was the reason Verratti left.  Juve wouldn't pay his transfer fee.

Etc.

Take a look at this! He actually went back to Madrid section and bragging about his trolling! Doesn't GL have rules against this?

futbol_bill wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Messing around with Juve fans is much fun They're so insecure with their European status that they fly off the handle with just a little egging on.

You're doing your best at messing around with the Real Madrid fans as well with your french agenda, french reports, etc etc. You've become a troll of the highest order!

Thanks @futbol_bill

Grown ass men acting like kids talking about the ambitions of a professional club that just spent a healthy amount on the transfer window and has been competing for as many trophies as every top club in Europe over the last several seasons. All, while simultaneously promoting a move to a Europa League side

futbol_bill wrote:Take a look at this! He actually went back to Madrid section and bragging about his trolling! Doesn't GL have rules against this?

futbol_bill wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Messing around with Juve fans is much fun They're so insecure with their European status that they fly off the handle with just a little egging on.

You're doing your best at messing around with the Real Madrid fans as well with your french agenda, french reports, etc etc. You've become a troll of the highest order!

He doesn't support Madrid. Just supports French players and French teams.

Not to mention he 'stopped' supporting Juve when the going went tough.

@Sports

The bias is amazing, go troll somewhere else.

You boast of a player that moved to Sampdoria for free and did average, but Barzagli is ignored because he "only" played a game in a world cup Italy won and actually won the league with Wolfsburg.

Sirigu makes literally the same move as Trapp, to the same club and on the same position. Sirigu was even his country's number 2, while Trapp is not, didn't even go to the Euros. But one counts and the other doesn't...

One of the most aggressively biased posters in GL.

Andrew_p wrote:Coming here creating tention. Do you seek for attention? If not then GTFO you pos troll

rincon wrote:@Sports

The bias is amazing, go troll somewhere else.

I think @sportsczy is expressing his opinion in a nice way. As far as I observed, he didn't insult anybody and was serious in (almost) every word that he said.

And what's wrong by being biased? We are all biased because naturally we always tend to see things in our own way. Otherwise we would all have the same thing to say and brainstorming wouldn't exist.

The fact that you don't agree with what he says is another thing. But calling him a troll and clueless just because he has different perspective than you regarding some particular topics, it's unfair.

And I kind of agree with him on many aspects. Also, I can write three or four paragraphs where I could contradict him, only in what concerns his posts from this page of the thread. It also happened for me to write in Juve's section, share my opinions and thoughts and I was insulted.

And by the way, some friends of mine (Surag, Tomwin etc.) know the fact that I admire Juve from all my heart and every time I put my step into this subforum I only come with good intentions. Yet, it happened for me to feel insulted. I am not a man to keep my mind busy with insults, i'm ok with it, but it's a reminder that we as a community can do much better.

Vlad the Impaler wrote:

Andrew_p wrote:Coming here creating tention. Do you seek for attention? If not then GTFO you pos troll

I think @sportsczy is expressing his opinion in a nice way. As far as I observed, he didn't insult anybody and was serious in every word that he said.

The fact that you don't agree with what he says is another thing. But calling him a troll and clueless just because he has different perspective than you regarding some particular topics, it's unfair.

And I kind of agree with him on many aspects. Also, I can write three or four paragraphs where I could contradict him, only in what concerns his posts from this page of the thread. It also happened for me to write in Juve's section, share my opinions and thoughts and I was insulted.

And by the way, some friends of mine (Surag, Tomwin etc.) know the fact that I admire Juve from all my heart and every time I put my step into this subforum I only come with good intentions. Yet, it happened for me to feel insulted. I am not a man to keep my mind busy with insults, i'm ok with it, but it's a reminder that we as a community can do much better.

You've never done any trolling here, always good posts.
But I think its fair to call Sportsczy a troll when he writes in the Madrid section that he is trolling here

rincon wrote:

Vlad the Impaler wrote:

Andrew_p wrote:Coming here creating tention. Do you seek for attention? If not then GTFO you pos troll

I think @sportsczy is expressing his opinion in a nice way. As far as I observed, he didn't insult anybody and was serious in every word that he said.

The fact that you don't agree with what he says is another thing. But calling him a troll and clueless just because he has different perspective than you regarding some particular topics, it's unfair.

And I kind of agree with him on many aspects. Also, I can write three or four paragraphs where I could contradict him, only in what concerns his posts from this page of the thread. It also happened for me to write in Juve's section, share my opinions and thoughts and I was insulted.

And by the way, some friends of mine (Surag, Tomwin etc.) know the fact that I admire Juve from all my heart and every time I put my step into this subforum I only come with good intentions. Yet, it happened for me to feel insulted. I am not a man to keep my mind busy with insults, i'm ok with it, but it's a reminder that we as a community can do much better.

You've never done any trolling here, always good posts.
But I think its fair to call Sportsczy a troll when he writes in the Madrid section that he is trolling here

I was referring of the fact that he was told to leave because he trolls. That surely isn't something else than an insult thrown from a defensive state meant to protect you, which can happen. Everyone happens to have ugly thoughts, it is about the way we handle them.

And thanks, but not everybody seemed to be on the same page with you when it comes about my posts here.

Tbh I don't mind the odd bit of trolling.

But Sports comes here everytime either bashing our transfers or belittling the club not to mention this whole Pogba is getting sold campaign he went on for 3 years on this forum.

Vladdy, if I come to your section and continuously troll,  you won't be too amused to the extent that you would put me on your ignore list.

Differing opinions are always welcome but not to the extent that you keep bashing the club and their decisions and in turn spreading negativity.

Yep, a great aspect of Pogba leaving is Sports hopefully ending his incessant badgering of all things Juve and Serie A.

Thats better than GL bragging rights.

@S

Fair enough, I can agree with that and I can tell that I didn't watch closely his posts in this section for a longer period.

You all got my point anyway and I think we all know that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Or at least I am pretty sure that some spirits here calmed down and that is a good thing so far.

And if anybody came to United's section a few years ago and was trolling I would have been very angry, throwing 10 insults/post and if possible, swear and get away with it. But now, it wouldn't matter for me anymore, it's about the way you control your feelings and how you invest your energy. If you don't let yourself to be affected, in a few minutes you can completely get past anything and continue to be yourself. Bla bla.

[mod]@sportsczy

I would appreciate you would not troll the Juve guys like this, particularly if you even brag about it in another section, too. Consider yourself reprimanded! I'm watching you now. Next trolling attempt like this and you get 25% off![/mod]

Vlad the Impaler wrote:@S

Fair enough, I can agree with that and I can tell that I didn't watch closely his posts in this section for a longer period.

You all got my point anyway and I think we all know that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Or at least I am pretty sure that some spirits here calmed down and that is a good thing so far.

And if anybody came to United's section a few years ago and was trolling I would have been very angry, throwing 10 insults/post and if possible, swear and get away with it. But now, it wouldn't matter for me anymore, it's about the way you control your feelings and how you invest your energy. If you don't let yourself to be affected, in a few minutes you can completely get past anything and continue to be yourself. Bla bla.

Most people here get on. There's no problem here. In the older days, insults would've been exchanged and this would've led to bans.

But sports' posts on this forum is like trying to get that annoying monkey off your back. He just can't seem to resist it that he has come here and bash the club. And this was a guy who apparently supported this club when he was young.

I myself can be a little aggressive at times but when I read too much negativity in this forum, I get a bit annoyed, that's all.

Yep.

@rwo power took care of things for you.

It's one thing to come here to post your opinion in a polite and respectful manner and it's a totally different thing to do what that troll does, and he does this for years now, not just every now and then.

And this my club is bigger than yours thing he always throws around is really amusing. Size related complex is obviously rooted deep in him.

sportsczy wrote:
I'm just debating.  Not saying I'm right or wrong and not saying that you're right or wrong either... we're just exchanging arguments.  Sometime my arguments are better and sometimes others'...  it's not being a "know it all" to offer differing perspectives.  It's healthy in fact.  I read everything that people say against my arguments and, although I won't admit it because it would kill the debate, I agree with a lot of what many people say.  

Rincon, Luca, Tom and Gigi are great posters just so you know.  Learn a lot by reading their stuff.

I hope you meant it.

Andrew_p wrote:It's one thing to come here to post your opinion in a polite and respectful manner and it's a totally different thing to do what that troll does, and he does this for years now, not just every now and then.

And this my club is bigger than yours thing he always throws around is really amusing. Size related complex is obviously rooted deep in him.

I agree that it is amusing and I think it is also puerile. But c'mon, there are many posters who trolled on this subject in the General Football Section and not only. Even @S, @Firenze, RG or myself (can't really remember but it's possible) etc.

It is a common thing on GL these days.