"Spain's by far the best league." - Paul Scholes

Well Scholes called De Bruyne, Aguero and Silva the only world class players playing in PL right now. Is there anything to discuss after such blatant bs. He was a great player for us, one of the greatest in fact but as a pundit he is dogturd.

I agree with the La Liga part tho. Its easily the best league in the world. But isnt that way too obvious to be considered as an expert opinion nowadays?!  Schoesy's just stating the obvious. And when he is not saying that, he says plain stupid things Surprised theres even a thread for this tho. Thought everyone by now know how bad a pundit he is.

everything has peaks and valleys. i never liked the league vs league comparisons because fans and pundits use it to justify their teams' failures or successes. i mean, yeah, some leagues these days aren't anything special but that's a different issue.

anyway i get what sportsczy's saying, the financial side matters. and finance isn't limited to the players these clubs are buying; the money can be useful for better scouting systems, facilities, and all that good stuff. maybe right now la liga's big 2 including atleti and sevilla are doing better in europe. but not every club in spain is being managed like those sides. also, how many top foreign coaches would jump at the opportunity at managing any side in spain besides the big 2?

let's not act like there's a balance between business and football at every club in spain. you still have sides like levante who as of two or three years ago had part time regular workers on their squad cos of issues with wages (i don't know what their situation with money is at this time). malaga thought they stumbled upon wealth, but clashes within owners and local leaders seemed to squash all that, and they too had issues with wages.

its all about peaks and valleys, i don't think there's some key inherent plan by lfp or anything like that. but money and financial responsibility are useful for growth and sustaining it

I think I just read that the two Milan clubs were bought by Chinese investors, and of course Juve is owned by the Agnelli family.  So I see a rise in Italian football moving foward.  Our TV deal isn't like the EPL but it still is quite large compared to prior years.  Once these Milan teams figure out how to build and run their own stadiums Serie Zzzz will be back.  Not to mention we will be getting our fourth spot back in CL in 2018, so these Milanese teams should both be back in CL competition by then.

EPL can enjoy their current run with their TV money, at the end of the day English football still sucks, their national team is a disaster and a great deal of players in EPL are still English.  Once this current TV deal runs out and Italy starts to catch up again the party will be over.  It was only 14 years ago that Serie A was still dominating European football and had TWO teams reach the UCL final.  Calciopoli screwed it all up because it destroyed Juve.  Now that Juve is back on top it is just a situation where the Milanese teams need to get their sh** together and buy better players.  With the Chinese money it is already happening for Inter.  Gabigol chose Inter over Chelsea and ManU.  Brozovic decided to stay.  Icardi is staying.  So there is progress for Inter.  Milan is a different story but once the Chinese money starts to fly in January watch out.  Ibra even stated he'd love to go back to Milan and it was actually his first choice this year, but of course the money led him to ManU instead.  Next year might prove a different story, we will see.

Once this TV deal runs out, they'll get an even bigger deal.  The point is that the media is still making money by buying these rights...  as long as they keep making money (and more), they will re-up it and the value will even go up. The only way the value goes down is if they lose money... and every projection says that's nowhere close to happening despite the cost.

Also, because these media rights were bought for so much money, the buyers are going to pimp the living daylights out of the EPL.  It's like paying 100 mil for a player... you're going to make that player a centerpiece.

And again, leagues are about players first and foremost, then managers and finally club governance.  Whichever league gets the best players and managers will have the best product.  So EPL is going to build up their reservoir of talent for the foreseeable future.

When has the EPL not been the richest league?

Its been many years since they've had a considerable amount of money over the others. And yet they thoroughly lost their "throne" to La Liga.

5 EPL clubs are amongst the 10 richest and two of those are not in CL (United and Liverpool). Other 4 are in the top 20, including West Ham that couldn't qualify for EL in playoffs.

Those 9 rich clubs lost the league to Leicester and 1 got relegated (Newcastle).

They've had the money, sure they have more money now, but they have to spend properly and build teams the right way.

That has taken years to come into play. It has been 4 years of EPL clubs being the richest, and no EPL clubs in the CL final. Plus 1 EL final in 7 years.

In the mean time Spain has swept clean in both tournaments with less money.

Scholes is obviously right.

Also, what do people think happens with the money the EPL invests in football?

We are seeing it now, everyone is getting massive fees for their players and will probably reinvest accordingly.

Serie A and Bundesliga broke their spending records this season too.

Napoli made money whilst spending 75mill. Roma spent 100mill. Juve 160mill and Inter 110mill. These are absurd numbers usually. But money is rising and its reaching everyone.

The better managed clubs will stay ahead. I don't see United overtaking Madrid for a while, for example.

And again, leagues are about players first and foremost, then managers and finally club governance.  Whichever league gets the best players and managers will have the best product.  So EPL is going to build up their reservoir of talent for the foreseeable future.

I find this to be very presumptuous tbh because 1) not every player and manager will move for the money and 2) clubs are currently directing their money on average players and not the best ones.

Over a billion pound was spent last summer but you can count the number of genuine top class players coming into the league on one hand and most of them went to one club.

Meanwhile every PL squad has to have at least 8 homegrown players in it if it wants to have the max 25 players, but the standard of HG players is poor. So from top to bottom PL squads will automatically be weaker than the top clubs from Spain and Germany who, on top of being able to buy top class players, also produce them or know how to identify top domestic talents.

So if we're measuring league quality by either the quality of player or success in Europe I just don't see how the PL is going to become the best. It'll just be more of the same except now average players like Yannic Bolasie and Moussa Sissoko are going to cost £30m.

True but it all goes in cycles.  Once the Milanese teams get the cash the players will come and, as you said, that is what ultimately controls the league, it's the players.  If Milan are going to inject $300M into their squad then players will come.  There is not an infinite amount of funds in EPL.  They can't buy everyone, and their is FFP to consider.  Inter has already had to cut 4 players from UCL because of FFP as their spending far exceeded their revenues, so even ManU couldn't buy every player this year.

We will see what happens, but I believe the shift is coming for Serie A, especially given the fact we get that 4th spot back, which will be huge as it will allow both Milanese teams to potentially make the competition and then collect the money that comes with playing in it, not to mention the fact that the best players will come once they are back in UCL.

I think he's wrong about saying that it's all about money, sponsorship's instead of entertainment

It's about money, sponsorships AND entertainment. Entertainment at the sake of quality.

Almost everyone in the league last year was shit but it was entertaining as hell. It's embarrassing that Leicester managed to win the league, but it was really fun to watch happen.

It was super fun to watch Leicester win the league last year, but they would have handily lost in the other top 4 leagues.

Jay29 wrote:

And again, leagues are about players first and foremost, then managers and finally club governance.  Whichever league gets the best players and managers will have the best product.  So EPL is going to build up their reservoir of talent for the foreseeable future.

I find this to be very presumptuous tbh because 1) not every player and manager will move for the money and 2) clubs are currently directing their money on average players and not the best ones.

Over a billion pound was spent last summer but you can count the number of genuine top class players coming into the league on one hand and most of them went to one club.

Meanwhile every PL squad has to have at least 8 homegrown players in it if it wants to have the max 25 players, but the standard of HG players is poor. So from top to bottom PL squads will automatically be weaker than the top clubs from Spain and Germany who, on top of being able to buy top class players, also produce them or know how to identify top domestic talents.

So if we're measuring league quality by either the quality of player or success in Europe I just don't see how the PL is going to become the best. It'll just be more of the same except now average players like Yannic Bolasie and Moussa Sissoko are going to cost £30m.

This is a good point.  ManU simply can't buy 23 foreign players.  Not only do they have to abide by FFP they also have to abide by the homegrown player rules.  So they will still have to field scrubs on their team regardless of the money that comes in.  English talent is well below German, Italian and Spanish talent, the EPL flourishes primarily because of its foreign players.  ManU built a brand new shiny squad this year, how many of those star players were English?  At least Juve has a base of Italian players to work with and so does Milan.

At the end of the day if EPL wants to be on top for now and into the future then they will need to ramp up their investment on local English talent, not just cut the cheques to buy the Pogbas of the world.

rincon wrote:It was super fun to watch Leicester win the league last year, but they would have handily lost in the other top 4 leagues.

Handily...

not in Serie A tbh.

People keep mentioning last season...  but the new media deal went into effect starting this season  Nothing was changed for last season.

Some clubs committed funds HOPING that it would give them insurance over relegation...  but most stayed conservative.  This was the first summer where clubs had the extra cash in their bank accounts.

Serie A fans talking big makes me laugh btw.  Serie A has truly been entertaining the last few years... if you're a prison inmate who has no choice

Competition is what makes it fun... the fact that every game can be won or lost and you don't always have the same winners. That's the strength of the EPL and why it's, by far (and i mean a country mile), the most watched league in the world. There's suspense in almost every game.

And before anyone says it... Ligue 1 has become the shittiest of them all in terms of entertainment. I'm not denying that.

Scholes wasnt talking about entertainment probably, but results. In quality of play, Spanish teams are clearly ahead. How is it even a debate when they have dominated European finals for years now

Right now... I completely agree Rincon.  No doubt.  But 10-15 years ago, it was Serie A because they had the most stars.  Now, it's Spain because the star power is there.  I'm just stating that the La Liga cycle is in danger because EPL is going to buy a lot of stars in the next few years.

You kind of follow the money trail since the 80s and you see where the strength of European leagues has been.

That said, I'm not saying Madrid, PSG, Barca, Juve and Bayern are in danger. Those teams are not reliant on their leagues really. But it's the overall league that may suffer.

money is important, but how you market games is also key. chinese investors can buy up some good footy real estate in serie a, but if it isn't marketed right (based on what stations carry the games, the games being hyped up on tv and being marketed to a vast audience), it won't do much to help

sevilla vs betis may not be a classico, especially in the post joaquin period for betis, but its a game that holds huge drama. however, unless you actually live there the enormity of the game just goes by like nothing's happening. in england some of the smaller derbys are made to look larger than life. and now with top managers going there, one can sense some appeal (the game itself may or may not be all that)

spain's star power is concentrated at two clubs. and when players know they can't make the squad of either club they look outside asap. if things were so lovely, unai emery should have stayed at sevilla and not move out to psg right?

And water's wet....

Well, judging from his quote of "past two years", he's absolutely correct. Entertainment wise or football wise, hell yes. La Liga runs champs here, no doubt.

I'm not sure more money = better league or the best players. I mean, the Buli was maligned as a shit league a few years ago and once their youth machine started turning... even in Europe small teams can mount a decent challenge against the monsters.

We'll see in a few years now that there are some quality managers in the EPL. You can have the best players, but with a mediocre manager... well...

Even with the EPL having the most money, not every player moves just because of the money. There are a lot of great clubs outside the EPL who challenge for titles and earn great wages. There are still some players left who play for the glory .

No matter how much money a league has, there is the law of diminishing returns.

Scholes has a point imo, I have seen fans use the money/most watched argument, for the prem being the best league for some years now, then they get beat in the cl or nt, then english pundits start calling the prem over hyped, new season starts prem is best league in the world again, that cycle has been repeating itself for at least 8 years now, clearly no sign of stopping cause its mainly for marketing purposes, still annoying to listen to from every english speaking media outlet, blah blah prem is the best blah blah

There is a law of diminishing return when you can pay the most for players? News to me That's not how Europe's been for the last 35 years. Serie A started splashing like the EPL is today in the early 80s and, by the end of the decade, everyone went there. In the 00s, Serie A lost its financial advantage gradually and the players started to move to other leagues. There wasn't really any league that had a dominant financial position so players focused on teams.

Now, like the early 00s, you have an entire league that has a dominant financial position starting this season. Unless the monies are completely mismanaged, I expect the same results.

EPL teams spent 1.2 billion pounds, or 1.4 billion euros, on players this summer. Let that sink in for a second.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37209664

Sports you said this a few years ago. Please tell me how the epl has done in Europe...

They are the 3rd best league in Europe atm, that's not even debatable if we are using results.

The goal post has been changing, first the epl was the best based on their results in Europe between 06-09 despite the only 2 challengers in the 2 horse league being united and Chelsea every season bar that one time Liverpool had a go in 09.

Then once the flopping commenced it changed to the most competitive league and the most exciting league in the world.

You keep saying managers will add quality, what quality are we talking? The only manager that does anything differently in Epl is Guardiola. Mourinho has been doing the same thing  since he started coaching, Conte is a bonfide flop in Europe and Allegri reached the cl final after he left etc

The basic coaching problem that is still in the lower levels will mot change.

The German FA collaborated with clubs in Germany on theor youth project, La Liga changed over 20 years from being la furia roja of effort and hard work to the more technical based team.

English FA and teams don't gaf  because of the money.  There is a fundemental coaching problem in England and the managers go there have to adapt theit methods and in some cases conform to the mean. This is why I am looking forward to seeing how Pep does. People just don't understand football at all levels in this country. The pundits are clueless, the fans are clueless and the coaches are clueless.

Pro tip: I have 2 friends that are youth coaches, one  was in Real Betis and the other worked in Sporting. One of them tried to move to England and coach and he left within a month

He said the coaching in this country is prehistoric.

ffs... I didn't say this a few years ago.  I said ONCE the new media deal takes effect, which is this season.  The new deal was signed almost 2 years ago but just started taking effect this season. Until now, the EPL was getting paid under the old media deal.

sportsczy wrote:ffs... I didn't say this a few years ago.  I said ONCE the new media deal takes effect, which is this season.  The new deal was signed almost 2 years ago but just started taking effect this season. Until now, the EPL was getting paid under the old media deal.

Either all the money doES now is make foreign players premium go way up. The other leagues can make up the quality by having superior scouting coaching and recruitment so their levels wouldn't dip. Let's wait and see what the epl does in Europe over the next few years.