Re: Cristiano Ronaldo is the GREATEST OF ALL TIME. Now Sit down and STFU

by halamadrid2 Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:13 am

McAgger wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:Ronaldo's biggest mistake was leaving Real Madrid. He was comfortable there. Breaking record after record. He was regarded as better than Messi.

Literally, no one but CRsexuals believed that to be true. Objectively, Messi distinguished himself as the better player at every step of the way. CR just kept up with Messi statistically but even then his stats were just short of Messi's. Overall play was never in question.

I agree with your point CR should've stayed with Madrid, he bought a little too much into his own hype thinking he was the sole reason for Madrid's CL 3-peat and success, completely overlooking the fact that Madrid was the most stacked team in Europe.

Ronaldo was much better than Messi back then. Just look back at this thread during that time. Ronaldo was scoring in pretty much every big game while Messi steered Barca out of CL constantly and flopped in every single Clasico. Ronaldo became a forgotten man once he left RM and started getting eliminated by the likes of Lyon. If he'd stayed Messi would be nowhere near him in the CL scoring chart and he'd have at least 1 more balond'or

by Beautiful Football Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:47 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
McAgger wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:Ronaldo's biggest mistake was leaving Real Madrid. He was comfortable there. Breaking record after record. He was regarded as better than Messi.

Literally, no one but CRsexuals believed that to be true. Objectively, Messi distinguished himself as the better player at every step of the way. CR just kept up with Messi statistically but even then his stats were just short of Messi's. Overall play was never in question.

I agree with your point CR should've stayed with Madrid, he bought a little too much into his own hype thinking he was the sole reason for Madrid's CL 3-peat and success, completely overlooking the fact that Madrid was the most stacked team in Europe.
Ronaldo was much better than Messi back then. Just look back at this thread during that time. Ronaldo was scoring in pretty much every big game while Messi steered Barca out of CL constantly and flopped in every single Clasico. Ronaldo became a forgotten man once he left RM and started getting eliminated by the likes of Lyon. If he'd stayed Messi would be nowhere near him in the CL scoring chart and he'd have at least 1 more balond'or

Messi wasn't shit Barca were, during that time he single handly own them La Liga many times, and did decent in the UCL. Look at Barca after messi, they can't even get out of group stage in UCL ffs. During Messi's time it was untinkable. Look at Madrid, after Ronaldo left, they continue to win without him. Ronaldo benefited far more with Real madrid, than Messi with Barca.

It doesn't say anything About Ronaldo. It's says about Real Madrid. They were clearly best team in the world. Any decent attacker would have won ballond'or and CL with that team. Hell even goal legacy meme, DBenzema won Bollon'dor with that team ffs. So did Modric.

If Ronaldo were there he would have taken all the credit and Benzema and Modric Would never won Ballond'or. Also Madrid fans would tell us how Ronaldo is the best in history, in fact Real Madrid were far ahead than everyone else, that a decent attacker would have own Ballond'or and UCL with that team. You don't need Ronaldo for that as Benzema proved it.
If Benzema was focal point of Madrid(if there was no Ronaldo) during their prime he also would have socred close to Ronaldo's amount of goals and many more assist than Ronaldo did, and won many BallonD'or. Then you guys would tell how Benzeam is the best in the histroy and better than Messi. Benzema Really secrificed his goals for Ronaldo guy is truly unselfish.
I have said Many times Real Madrid dominted Because of Modric and their midfield not Ronaldo. Ronaldo was also fenomano in few UCL winning campaign during that time.ultimately Real Madrid Midfield proved that after Ronaldo left, they can win without him not otherway around . It is clear as daylight.

by El Gunner Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:07 am

FennecFox7 wrote:- His first two seasons at juventus were very good. His last season was average. His man United years I would say really showed his decline as a player. Fair. The thing is, we keep assuming Ronaldo is this average footballer who can’t do anything besides score tap ins, and the only people who peddle this are Messi fans. Anyone looks average when you compare them to Messi. Henry would look like a pace merchant if you compared him to Messi with zero other qualities. The comparison is what actually makes people underrate him severely in other parts of his game. He has a good cross on him with both feet, good speed, good at beating players one on one, but we see someone like Leo dribble the whole team 3-4 times a game in his prime.. yeah nothing can compare to that

100% agree... and that's why it pisses me so off that people started and continued to have this "debate" for so long. It has driven a divide in footballing discourse where the most extreme Ronaldo fanboys will bring up dumb mostly inconsequential arguments like "di Maria is Argentina's most important player" and "Ronaldo is better at heading" just as negative points against Messi... while on the other hand the most extreme Messi fanboys will mostly overlook and discount Ronaldo's contributions to football and many other awesome qualities as a footballer just because they can't stand the constant comparing of the two.

It's become toxic and most of the truth gets lost in the jam along the way.

by halamadrid2 Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:16 am

Beautiful Football wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:
McAgger wrote:

Literally, no one but CRsexuals believed that to be true. Objectively, Messi distinguished himself as the better player at every step of the way. CR just kept up with Messi statistically but even then his stats were just short of Messi's. Overall play was never in question.

I agree with your point CR should've stayed with Madrid, he bought a little too much into his own hype thinking he was the sole reason for Madrid's CL 3-peat and success, completely overlooking the fact that Madrid was the most stacked team in Europe.
Ronaldo was much better than Messi back then. Just look back at this thread during that time. Ronaldo was scoring in pretty much every big game while Messi steered Barca out of CL constantly and flopped in every single Clasico. Ronaldo became a forgotten man once he left RM and started getting eliminated by the likes of Lyon. If he'd stayed Messi would be nowhere near him in the CL scoring chart and he'd have at least 1 more balond'or

Messi wasn't shit Barca were, during that time he single handly own them La Liga many times, and did decent in the UCL. Look at Barca after messi, they can't even get out of group stage in UCL ffs. During Messi's time it was untinkable. Look at Madrid, after Ronaldo left, they continue to win without him. Ronaldo benefited far more with Real madrid, than Messi with Barca.

It doesn't say anything About Ronaldo. It's says about Real Madrid. They were clearly best team in the world. Any decent attacker would have won ballond'or and CL with that team. Hell even goal legacy meme, DBenzema won Bollon'dor with that team ffs. So did Modric.

If Ronaldo were there he would have taken all the credit and Benzema and Modric Would never won Ballond'or. Also Madrid fans would tell us how Ronaldo is the best in history, in fact Real Madrid were far ahead than everyone else, that a decent attacker would have own Ballond'or and UCL with that team. You don't need Ronaldo for that as Benzema proved it.

Funny because I constantly hear that Real Madrid were lucky and was never the best team in the world a single year we won CL. Ronaldo benefitted from Real Madrid the same way Real Madrid benefitted from Ronaldo. Ronaldo came to Madrid during our worst period in recent history and he helped propell it to greatness. Let's not act like Messi never had a good support cast. Rakitic was to Messi what Benz was to Ronaldo. Both needed players to take the slack for them to do well. The reason why Barca are doing so bad now is the same reason Ronaldo isn't with us. They gave in to Messi's every wage demand whereas Real Madrid put a red line where Ronaldo wasn't allowed to cross. Here we are, seeing Madrid make huge bids for players whereas Barca relies on teenagers to win trophies. Had Barca put a red line for Messi maybe they wouldn't be in this mess. Just like Messi carried Barca in the league Lewa is doing the same now so he wasn't doing anything no other player could replicate.

by Beautiful Football Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:27 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
Beautiful Football wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:
Ronaldo was much better than Messi back then. Just look back at this thread during that time. Ronaldo was scoring in pretty much every big game while Messi steered Barca out of CL constantly and flopped in every single Clasico. Ronaldo became a forgotten man once he left RM and started getting eliminated by the likes of Lyon. If he'd stayed Messi would be nowhere near him in the CL scoring chart and he'd have at least 1 more balond'or

Messi wasn't shit Barca were, during that time he single handly own them La Liga many times, and did decent in the UCL. Look at Barca after messi, they can't even get out of group stage in UCL ffs. During Messi's time it was untinkable. Look at Madrid, after Ronaldo left, they continue to win without him. Ronaldo benefited far more with Real madrid, than Messi with Barca.

It doesn't say anything About Ronaldo. It's says about Real Madrid. They were clearly best team in the world. Any decent attacker would have won ballond'or and CL with that team. Hell even goal legacy meme, DBenzema won Bollon'dor with that team ffs. So did Modric.

If Ronaldo were there he would have taken all the credit and Benzema and Modric Would never won Ballond'or. Also Madrid fans would tell us how Ronaldo is the best in history, in fact Real Madrid were far ahead than everyone else, that a decent attacker would have own Ballond'or and UCL with that team. You don't need Ronaldo for that as Benzema proved it.
Funny because I constantly hear that Real Madrid were lucky and was never the best team in the world a single year we won CL. Ronaldo benefitted from Real Madrid the same way Real Madrid benefitted from Ronaldo. Ronaldo came to Madrid during our worst period in recent history and he helped propell it to greatness. Let's not act like Messi never had a good support cast. Rakitic was to Messi what Benz was to Ronaldo. Both needed players to take the slack for them to do well. The reason why Barca are doing so bad now is the same reason Ronaldo isn't with us. They gave in to Messi's every wage demand whereas Real Madrid put a red line where Ronaldo wasn't allowed to cross. Here we are, seeing Madrid make huge bids for players whereas Barca relies on teenagers to win trophies. Had Barca put a red line for Messi maybe they wouldn't be in this mess. Just like Messi carried Barca in the league Lewa is doing the same now so he wasn't doing anything no other player could replicate.

Lewa still did nothing untill he win laliga. He already banned himself three games. Wth lewa Barca alredy out of UCL. Never happend when messi was there. Messi also played with those kids. Messi had far far more impact on Barcelona than Ronaldo on madrid.

Bro you started winning UCl after you bought Modric in 2012 and bulid good Midfield, other wise Ronaldo would have own you at least 1 UCl between 2009-11 or even 12 if he was that good.

I swear if any player tarnsformed Real Madrid that time it was Luca Modric not Ronaldo. Look at Modric performance with Croatia, he took a half decent team to a World cup final and semi final in a row from midfield. He continue to feed your striker and keep wining you games , same with Croatia, Ronaldo is not needed. He needs good ST. In my eyes he is the Greatest Central Midfielder world have ever seen. Even better than Xavi ffs.

by halamadrid2 Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:12 pm

Modric was great too but he isn't what transformed us. Nobody remembers this but Casemiro is what made us solid and difficult to beat. I remember us being swung from one side to the other by Dortmund during the LaDecima, Casemiro came on and brought solidity. I remember the record we had with Casemiro in CL. I think we won 5 times in the 6/7 seasons Casemiro was with us or some crazy stat like that. Slowly slowly we started to build our team the way we wanted it. Now we can take out a player and bring someone in his stead and we will still be rolling. Perez has been very smart with his recruitment. Something Barca weren't.

I agree that Lewa will have achieved nothing until he drags Barca to the league but Messi hardly did any better in Europe. Barca got their arses handed to them against the first decent team they met with Messi. The remontada against QSG was solely due to Neymar. Messi was a passive big game flop. Ronaldo was the complete opposite. Just because Ronaldo has hit rock bottom does not mean we can now revise history

by El Gunner Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:41 pm

you're the one revising history, hala

by Arquitecto Mon Dec 26, 2022 2:12 pm

This very much true. (38 year old) Ronaldo having a bad world cup and Messi doing what he did has given the chance for a lot of the ones who dislike CR, to come out of the woodwork and give a lot of revisionism over the history of the rivalry, for recency bias is an interesting thing. No one will remember how forgettable Messi became in comparison to a serial CL dominating Ronaldo at a certain point, for that reason.

by Beautiful Football Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:02 pm

Messi did prove himself every single stage of his professional career . Messi having couple of bad UCL run in badly managed barca team means nothing. It doesn't metter if Messi was bad, none of the barca player could step up to drag them to winning one, not even neymar. In madrid Bale and Ramos stepped up for Ronaldo. Real madrid win UCL and everything without Ronaldo, it shows who carried whom. Barca couldn't even getout of group stage without Messi. Its no coincidence, Messi played for Barcelona for very very long time and never once Barca was out of UCL in group stage with him.

What Messi did with Argentina in copa and worldcup Ronaldo will never do it. Simply there is no Mighty Real Madrid Midfield to feed him in portugal.Clear as the daylight.

I still remember those Xavi iniesta stupid argument from Ronaldo fanboys. Now role has compeletly reversed. Also showed who is leader and commander, who need mighty midfield to win UCL and Ballond'or.

He may not win UCl with declined barca team but he did drag them to La liga and didn't knocked out by Lyon, Porto of this world. At their lowest Messi shined better than Ronaldo. No comparison there.

I belive Ronaldo's Unbelievable selfishness to stat pad goals, kepped him in the conversation with messi(being better than messi). Ronaldo also know that. Thats whay he scarped all of his other parts of game to concentrate on goals so he can keep up with messi in goat conversation. Anyway in all time great list i don't rate him top 5 at all.At best he is in sixth.

Ronaldo is still second Best player of his generation and one of the gratest of all time.

by futbol_bill Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:21 pm

Cruijf wrote:According to ADM it was Real who wanted him out, to make room for James Rodriguez. I’ll take your word for it on the other examples.

“Everybody had heard the rumors that Real wanted to sign James Rodríguez after the World Cup, and I knew that they were going to sell me to make room for him”

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/angel-di-maria-argentina-english

Nope not correct! Di Maria every year was asking for more money (just like Ronaldo). He would get off the plane in Buenos Aires at end of season and immediately tell press how underpaid he was. And this after so so seasons. When he performed well in that CL win, he asked for a bigger increase. and like with Ronaldo Flo said no, enough is enough.

What Flo is really good at is financial management. He has a salary progression ladder, the salary load vs income plus percentage of salary load that top of ladder can make. He sticks to these basic financial principles unlike many teams!

by El Gunner Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:32 pm

Arquitecto wrote:This very much true. (38 year old) Ronaldo having a bad world cup and Messi doing what he did has given the chance for a lot of the ones who dislike CR, to come out of the woodwork and give a lot of revisionism over the history of the rivalry, for recency bias is an interesting thing. No one will remember how forgettable Messi became in comparison to a serial CL dominating Ronaldo at a certain point, for that reason.

so what then do we make of 2008 - 2012 when Messi won the CLs and Ronaldo couldn't do anything without KCM? the years when both players were supposed to be at their physical and technical peak? do we forget about that part of history?

by Beautiful Football Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:38 pm

El Gunner wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:This very much true. (38 year old) Ronaldo having a bad world cup and Messi doing what he did has given the chance for a lot of the ones who dislike CR, to come out of the woodwork and give a lot of revisionism over the history of the rivalry, for recency bias is an interesting thing. No one will remember how forgettable Messi became in comparison to a serial CL dominating Ronaldo at a certain point, for that reason.

so what then do we make of 2008 - 2012 when Messi won the CLs and Ronaldo couldn't do anything without KCM? the years when both players were supposed to be at their physical and technical peak? do we forget about that part of history?

Ofcouse they forget. Its like Ronaldo played with pub midfield Laughing

Also Bale and Ramos never existed.
All you need to do is look at their lowest point , messi drag barca to la liga ronaldo doing nothing and losing juv leauge title. But ofcourse he did stat pad lots of useless goals to show: hey i did my job its juv problem. And this same story in Man U.

by futbol_bill Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:46 pm

It’s not ignored nor forgotten! In those years, it was Barca, the superior team. They had Iniesta, Xavi and Messi leading them. The period referred to above was after that! I don’t think anyone is denying how great Messi was / is. This constant put down of Ronaldo is just the Barca fans ignoring or forgetting the god times of Ronaldo!

You can see from various posts bu Madrid fans, we are not fanboys of Ronaldo, but we do appreciate the contributions Ronaldo made, but at same time we do acknowledge Messi as the best!

I think it is time to lock these Messi and Ronaldo threads!

by Beautiful Football Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:48 pm

futbol_bill wrote:It’s not ignored nor forgotten! In those years, it was Barca, the superior team. They had Iniesta, Xavi and Messi leading them. The period referred to above was after that! I don’t think anyone is denying how great Messi was / is. This constant put down of Ronaldo is just the Barca fans ignoring or forgetting the god times of Ronaldo!

You can see from various posts bu Madrid fans, we are not fanboys of Ronaldo, but we do appreciate the contributions Ronaldo made, but at same time we do acknowledge Messi as the best!

I think it is time to lock these Messi and Ronaldo threads!

Yes i agree its going nowere. Thanks

by El Gunner Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:55 pm

so then i think we can safely say...
2008-2012: Messi definitely better than Ronaldo when both were in their peaks, made a huge gap in the "debate"

2014-2018: Ronaldo arguably... marginally better than Messi... Catches up in the "debate"

2019-2023: Messi ages more gracefully, definitely a much more effective player... Ronaldo the opposite...

Equals = a dead debate with a clear winner.

by futbol_bill Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:57 pm

El Gunner wrote:so then i think we can safely say...
2008-2012: Messi definitely better than Ronaldo when both were in their peaks, made a huge gap in the "debate"

2014-2018: Ronaldo arguably... marginally better than Messi... Catches up in the "debate"

2019-2023: Messi ages more gracefully, definitely a much more effective player... Ronaldo the opposite...

Equals = a dead debate with a clear winner.

Lol, you needed a thousand posts to arrive at that conclusion!

by El Gunner Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:48 pm

i've always given Ronaldo his props, i just think he doesn't come close to Messi in general... read my older posts

by futbol_bill Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:11 pm

El Gunner wrote:i've always given Ronaldo his props, i just think he doesn't come close to Messi in general... read my older posts

Yeah, and so has another 100 posters, 1000 posts ago. Why you guys insist on repeating same old over and over again in multiple threads is beyond me!

by FennecFox7 Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:30 pm

Beautiful football arguing with himself right now.. IIRC the only “fanboy” was maybe me, and you could argue I was a much bigger fan of Robben, Iniesta especially, and Benzema (despite sucking). Actually I was obsessed with iniesta and literally worshipping him in the Barca section. So yeah, scratch the cr fanboy comment I just made. And I’ve ALWAYS said messi is the better player. So it seems like you’re having an internal battle with yourself. And you ended it by saying Ronaldo is the 6th best player of all time. I rank Messi as number one, and I can easily see arguments for di Stefano, Cruyff, Pele, and Maradona. Who’s arguing that? No one.

‍

Where you’re wrong is the repeating that modric was the main catalyst for our success. He really wasn’t and his role was much more of a CM. It was our fullbacks/di maria/ozil/james/Isco that fed the forwards. Benzema was also important here. Modric didn’t really play that role much. Him and Kroos were about controlling the midfield. Also, ditching Alonso and Khedira for Casemiro was a massive boost.

I just don’t see the point you’re making. It’s constant rambling. You say Ronaldo is 6th best which is pretty damn good, but then say he really didn’t do much with Madrid and he didn’t help us achieve jack shit. Are you saying all the Classico’s he whooped your ass and CL knockout games he scored braces or hat tricks as well as had outstanding individual performances don’t count? Like you literally said Messi’s poor performances in the CL “don’t count”. I myself don’t even blame Barca’s lack of CL success on Messi but you are. You are all over the place.

by El Gunner Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:40 pm

futbol_bill wrote:
El Gunner wrote:i've always given Ronaldo his props, i just think he doesn't come close to Messi in general... read my older posts

Yeah, and so has another 100 posters, 1000 posts ago. Why you guys insist on repeating same old over and over again in multiple threads is beyond me!

chill bro, was just responding to hala and Arq's points... don't want the forum to become even deader

by FennecFox7 Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:49 am

Also el G I 100% agree, I think I forgot to post the first post of mine and just did the second one

by neuro11 Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:16 am

El Gunner wrote:
futbol_bill wrote:
El Gunner wrote:i've always given Ronaldo his props, i just think he doesn't come close to Messi in general... read my older posts

Yeah, and so has another 100 posters, 1000 posts ago. Why you guys insist on repeating same old over and over again in multiple threads is beyond me!

chill bro, was just responding to hala and Arq's points... don't want the forum to become even deader

exactly....for people like me who are less expressive and can't come up quickly with stats and all-around information, it's a great debate to follow to be honest. I like the arguments and counterarguments that followed, sometimes biased and full of emotion and may be less logical but who cares. I read every bit of these kinds of debates and enjoy them.

One thing I noticed and like to share is how much people give importance to UCL winning. I mean I too personally felt so sad every time we were out of CL even though we were doing great in la Liga. If you look into the discussions no sides had been mentioning the contributions or lack of contributions in La Liga in the way they are using UCL achievements for the positive or negative points. Even though I always learned league winning is really tough and shows the strength and mentality of a team. I think it's just not as flashy as cups and therefore ignored by all parties.

by Valkyrja Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:11 am

Cristiano wasn't at any point close to Messi, even when he was scoring consistently in the CL - back then we had an otherwordly team full of legendary talents (Marcelo, Ramos, Modric are among the best in history in their positions)

Messi is simply a much more talented and effective footballer, there's no comparison.