Pozzo won't strengthen Udinese: "I don't want to flatter Arsenal." LOL

Did Pozzo rape one of your family members, sheesh.

He's just making money, leave him alone.

If that's the case, Ashley should be nailed to the cross. Yet no thread..

At least, If Udine go down, Isla has gotta sign for a top half team like Roma, or Genoa

Then they can fk off.

baresi wrote:

wigglesworth wrote:

baresi wrote:

PinePHresh wrote:

baresi wrote:

wigglesworth wrote:I hope that Arsenal win by like 10-0 in both games. Pozzo needs to be embarrassed, although even with such defeats he only thinks about making money buying and selling players.

Udinese needs to be relegated so that terrorist owners like Pozzo aren't in Serie A.

Why all the hate?

because owners like Zamp and Pozzo are negatively affecting the rest of Serie A. They have forgotten all about the fans and care only to line their own pockets. We all know that the revenue generated by the sales of Pastore and Sanchez will not be reinvested... By crashing out of Europe without a care, these teams are making a mockery of Calcio.

Could you imagine a club in England that finishes 4th in EPL imitating Udinese?

Why do we all forget what happened to Roma after winning their 2000-2001 title. They tried pushing way over their weight by keeping their best players and enforcing the team with more, they ended being forced to sell most of their best players, Cafu, Emmerson, Walter Samuel.

The point is Italy has to over look the entire footballing system, Winning prizes, TV rights, taxes; everything that would possibly encourage teams to keep their players and encourage new players to arrive. Teams in Seire A earn peanuts compared to clubs in England, Spain, Germany.

35M for Udine will mean thy are able to pay their entire expences for the next 2 seasons, 40M for Palermo means the same. Lets be realistc if Udin kept their best players how far do you think they will get in the CL? Lets give it a wide call and say they win Serie A how much will that get them?

You might say for the sake of the 4th spot; let me me tell you this: "screw the 4th spot why should the give a F for Seie A, if the system (Serie A) does'nt give a F about the clubs"

Italians should have realized this 10 years ago, if it was'nt for Milan that spot would have been lost much earlier than now. Why come and blame it now on teams like Udi, and Palermo.

What will happen to teams like Udi and Palermo, if they strengthened their teams now and failed to comply with "Fair Spending rule" and I am sure they wont be able to comply with this sort of income; they wont be allowed to play in europe so why bother and add unneeded -ve balance to their acconts?

So give the man a break, he did the right thing in selling. Before having a system that engourages club owners, no blame should be directed at the clubs.

Baresi, you really should look into the facts before you post something like: " Seire A earn peanuts compared to clubs in England, Spain, Germany. "

Fact is Serie A have the second richest TV contract in football, 30% more than La Liga a year, plus it is split more evenly among the lower teams. Pozzo is just a greedy s.o.b.

http://www.forzafutbol.com/2011/04/tv-revenues-comparative-view.html



PREMIER LEAGUE
Domestic TV Licensor: Sky Sports
Television contract: from 2009-10 through 2012-13
Total Value: 3.538 million euros
Annual breakdown: 1,179 million euros
Teams: 20

SERIE A
Domestic TV Licensor: Sky-Italia and Mediaset
TV Contract: 2010-11 through 2011-12
Total value: 1,822 million euros
Annual breakdown: 911 million.
Teams: 20

LIGUE 1
Domestic TV Licensor:Canal Plus and Orange
TV Contract: 2008-09 through 2011-12
Total value: 2,672 million euros
Annual breakdown: 668 mill.
Teams: 20

BUNDESLIGA
Domestic TV Licensor: Premiere AG
TV Contract: 2009-10 through 2012-13
Total value: 1,648 million euros
Annual breakdown: 412 mill.
Teams: 18

I just hope you got your facts rights; as far as I can remember (not 100% sure) those figures for Serie A are including winning prizes.

Even the TV rights you stated, you should as well look at taxes paid out of it. And the positive point " plus it is split more evenly among the lower teams" you pointed out is actually the PROBLEM, knowing that it includes the winning Serie A title, or ending second or 7th etc..

When spreading that amount "evenly" among clubs, you are creating two major problems:
1) Limiting the spending power of Big clubs by not getting enough to compete with othe European big boys.
2) Limiting the competition among Smaller clubs (with a bussiness mentality) not caring much about competing to get to better levels; since it wont make much difference in their fixed earnings.


Anyway this might not make much sence to you now, but let me do a comprehensive post with all data, and figures (matchday, Tax reduction, TV rights). Its getting late now.

Oh shit. TV rights are 80% of a league's income. Taxes are about the same everywhere now. And, spreading the money around as both the EPL, Bundesliga and Serie A do, makes sure you don't have two teams dominating every year. Sure, Madrid and Barcelona get more money from TV than Manchester United, Chelsea, Inter, Milan, Juventus, Arsenal, Bayern etc., but these teams still can compete. Inter just won the CL a year ago.

Why doesn't simply platini expand the UCL ?

In all major leagues put 4 spots for CL and just rank national teams and clubs ....it will be even more fun ...to the smaller leagues give 2 spots ...that will make clubs rich and they will thrive

OR

Leagues that will improve their coef. in EU league give them plus EU cup place not UCL

Leagues that improve their UCL coef. give them Ucl + spot and thats that

in that way no1 will care or say bad things about udinese or sampdoria ..and they will just try to play football ...no1 will worry and less corruption in football ...

as for Pozzo ...don't tell me he has no finances pls ..HE OWNS FOOTBALL CLUB AND FACTORIES ...things that we can dream of he is milionarie

I still can't forget when Cagliari president wanted to buy EPL team ( West Ham I think) for a lot of cash ....and he got refused ...why simply he doesn't invest those money in improving cagliari ....


presidents ruin their clubs no1 else

For anyone that has a small clue about finances in European football, the idea of greedy ownership is hilarious. I guess all owners have to continually pump in hundreds of millions of Euros like Moratti, Berlusconi, Sheik Mansour while expecting nothing in return or else they're being "cheap".

Sampdoria/Udinese/Palermo/Napoli are small or medium clubs who lack a mega millionaire or billionaire charitable owner, they don't have a place in CL level football at this moment and they shouldn't be in this level if the traditional clubs were still at the top (Juventus, Roma).

For clubs like those, buying low and selling high so they can keep buying low and selling high is the way to go. Ask Olympic Lyonnais who some years ago were a L2 side.

For Serie A to start regaining its lost 4th spot it needs Juventus and Roma to start losing money again and buy big stars who propel them to the top OR for FFP to hurry up and kick in, Udinese and Palermo are most definitively not the answer.

WIGGLES = GOD !

HE'S ON FIREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !

Forza Wiggles !

DeviAngel wrote:Why doesn't simply platini expand the UCL ?

They just changed the CL format to allow lower teams to have more chances, if they keep expanding it they would need to dilute the money more or renegotiate a better television contract.

Neither the Champions League nor Television have money making fairies behind them, i doubt more money is going to start flowing into football suddenly, the trend seems to be downsizing with FFP.

Wiggles your posts are epic !

Sushi Master wrote:Jesus Christ what's epic here is the dick sucking.

yep thats what i was gunna say

Sushi Master wrote:Jesus Christ what's epic here is the dick sucking.

LMAO, whatever you say!

What is Epic here is Wiggles. One of the smartest guys on here, who for one is always right when it comes to these sort of stuff. He is a like a god on these forums, I consider him a friend even tho he's an Interista... The man is a genius. Even when it comes down to Germany.

Forza Wiggles !

Not just dick sucking, but salad tossing now, too.

I agree with all the Pozzo hate, since apart from weakening a CL qualified team, that sweet CL TV revenue that most big clubs live on could have gone to a more ambitious club with great vision, so instead of weakening their teams they might have strengthened it. I'm sure if say, Roma had that spot they'd be aiming for top CL glory instead of quick bucks.

The only "lesser" club to actually strengthen their squad was Napoli. Why do Palermo sell their star and Udinese pretty much cut their dicks off while Napoli doesn't? Is it all the presidents' fault or can fans be blamed?

Sushi Master wrote:Not just dick sucking, but salad tossing now, too.

Say what you want, it's normal as you support may support Germany and a German Club. Wiggles has already owned them in the past, in which this jealousy lies. Wiggles is too smart, what can I say?

Wiggles is a legend, some what of an idol on these forums.

Keep hating, I keep supporting.

Forza Italia
Forza Wiggles

kkthanxbai

I am not criticising wiggles in any way. He's one of the few Italians on this forums who has real experience and knows his facts down as they are. Unlike some people. Sure, he has a certain bias but I appreciate passion so no harm done.

I don't know where you get this "has owned Germany in the past" nonesence, in any case. I did not even mention him.

What annoys me is that I try to read the thread where many solid posts are being made, and I come across 3 similar brown nosing posts with no content whatsoever.

Box-to-box left back, trololol
kthxbye

In many Germany debates, he's won them all, plain and simple. That's where it's coming from.

Hence, why I enjoy reading his posts and admire his intelligence towards Italian Football, his posts are epic. Amazing I should add, in my perspective.

Because I praise his intelligence, what's the harm with that... in fact I posted 3 solid posts towards this thread by the way, just in case you didn't bother reading them on page one... A little contradicting but oh well.

Wiggles must have something special about him.

I wonder what it is.

izzy26 wrote:Wiggles must have something special about him.

I wonder what it is.

It's called intelligence and experience.

Nah, I think it's something else.

Something......

Just can't put my finger on it.

sciacca wrote:In many Germany debates, he's won them all, plain and simple. That's where it's coming from.

Hence, why I enjoy reading his posts and admire his intelligence towards Italian Football, his posts are epic. Amazing I should add, in my perspective.

Because I praise his intelligence, what's the harm with that... in fact I posted 3 solid posts towards this thread by the way, just in case you didn't bother reading them on page one... A little contradicting but oh well.

Won them all plain and simple? Alright, buddy.

I'm sure many people admire his posts and knowledge, but we don't go jizzing all over our keyboards about it. It's not just on this thread that I've seen it, but in others and I just find it funny, that's all. No disrespect to wiggles intended.

I'm not complaining about those posts, but the like 4 straight brown nosing ones later. There's a +1 option for something.

There's only one God here on these boards, and that is Podolski.

Sushi Master wrote:

sciacca wrote:In many Germany debates, he's won them all, plain and simple. That's where it's coming from.

Hence, why I enjoy reading his posts and admire his intelligence towards Italian Football, his posts are epic. Amazing I should add, in my perspective.

Because I praise his intelligence, what's the harm with that... in fact I posted 3 solid posts towards this thread by the way, just in case you didn't bother reading them on page one... A little contradicting but oh well.

Won them all plain and simple? Alright, buddy.

I'm sure many people admire his posts and knowledge, but we don't go jizzing all over our keyboards about it. It's not just on this thread that I've seen it, but in others and I just find it funny, that's all. No disrespect to wiggles intended.

I'm not complaining about those posts, but the like 4 straight brown nosing ones later. There's a +1 option for something.

There's only one God here on these boards, and that is Abate.

Fixed

Sciacca, we are trying to have a nice dicussion here on a very intersting and important topic, if you dont have have anything useful to add to the topic please you can for once take the readers role.

I am by no mean here to "own" or get "owned" by anyone, I am here to voice my opinion and trying to have "grown ups" debate, if I am proven wrong it doesnt mean I got owned, it means I learned something new, and I hope others feel the same way.

Those forums are great cause the mods and admins give all ppl a chance every while and then to have a trolling debate, to keep the excitment alive, and I would be more than happy to post in one of those; that does'nt mean we can't have a real debate on some important topics.

.

Regards

Sushi Master wrote:
Won them all plain and simple? Alright, buddy.

I'm sure many people admire his posts and knowledge, but we don't go jizzing all over our keyboards about it. It's not just on this thread that I've seen it, but in others and I just find it funny, that's all. No disrespect to wiggles intended.

I'm not complaining about those posts, but the like 4 straight brown nosing ones later. There's a +1 option for something.

There's only one God here on these boards, and that is Podolski.

Yes he did 'buddy'. Nice choice of words.

You don't go 'jizzing' over them as you are not a fan of the Azzurri, as I'am, as I support his posts and find them quite interesting, entertaining and intelligent. Nonetheless, he seems to be always right on his part anyways. I respect Wiggles and I post the way I feel about it. So please, don't come here and tell me how to post, as I can do it as I want too. I've already put my 2 cents here, and now I'm just supporting Wiggles.

I do use the +1, but I ran out yesterday... So tough luck eh?

Well Podolski is a World Class player, Abate isn't. So I have nothing against that.

baresi wrote:Sciacca, we are trying to have a nice dicussion here on a very intersting and important topic, if you dont have have anything useful to add to the topic please you can for once take the readers role.

I am by no mean here to "own" or get "owned" by anyone, I am here to voice my opinion and trying to have "grown ups" debate, if I am proven wrong it doesnt mean I got owned, it means I learned something new, and I hope others feel the same way.

Those forums are great cause the mods and admins give all ppl a chance every while and then to have a trolling debate, to keep the excitment alive, and I would be more than happy to post in one of those; that does'nt mean we can't have a real debate on some important topics.

.

Regards

Cool Story bro.

Good to hear, and I already said what I had to say, and I continue if I want, or I can support Wiggles in the mean time. Nobody is claiming you should get owned, as I never directed that to you, so pointless to even add that. You are here for grown up debates, then fine, my support with Wiggles is irrelavent to your postings, or to you by any means,.You don't like it, then ignore them and read the others, thanks.

Wow, who knew praising a poster and supporting him is considered trolling. Some wise knowledge you got there on the rules, do you even know what trolling is?

I'm amazed by the evidence to him "winning" all his debates being "Yes he did". That's not how debating works, you know. You state something, you back it up as well as you can. The statement that wiggles is always right is insane. No one is always right, even the greats make mistakes.

Podolski's not WC, to be honest. He's still God, though.

Jesus, I understand what people meant now.

Sushi Master wrote:I'm amazed by the evidence to him "winning" all his debates being "Yes he did". That's not how debating works, you know. You state something, you back it up as well as you can. The statement that wiggles is always right is insane. No one is always right, even the greats make mistakes.

Podolski's not WC, to be honest. He's still God, though.

Jesus, I understand what people meant now.

Yes I know how debating works, however at one point and another someone is wrong, and you mentioned backing it up, trust me when I say this, Wiggles always does with facts each and every time. When I say 'always' I mean most of the time, of course he's not always right, that is insane and I agree. You are misleading what I'm saying, the point i'm trying to make here is that Wiggles has this knowledge and intelligence that most of us don't have, in which makes his opinions most of the time when it comes to historical debates especially more superior than others in which makes him the better person in those debates.

Compared to Abate? Big difference.

'Jesus', you seem not to understand what I mean now.

This should be an interesting read, till I collect the remaining data. I used the 2009-2010 figures since the 2011 audited accounts are'nt out yet.

The TV rights mentioned by Wiggles are for domestic rights only, now if we add the domestic with the global rights for other European leagues we'll see a huge difference against Serie A, since the global rights for Serie A where given to the company that bought the domestic rights.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For example the EPL overseas rights acount to 1.4B pounds, and the way those figures are shared favour all teams equally in a way that goes hand hind with their AMBITIONS, unlike Seria A that takes HISTORICAL back ground of the club into concideration.

i.e
Premier League distributes its TV revenue to the clubs, much of it is shared out equally, namely 50% of the domestic rights and 100% of the overseas rights, but not all of the money is allocated in this manner. Merit payments account for 25% of the domestic rights with each place in the final league table being worth around £750,000, which we have already seen can make a big difference to Wigan’s financials.

The Serie A rights are mentioned later.

One points remain, I am trying to find the exact stats of Taxes paid in Italy compared to those paid in England, Spain, and Germany, but in 2010 Udinese had a 3.6 loss before taxation and yet paid 3.2 taxes resulting in 3.8 negative account.

"The reason why Udinese are so concentrated on making money from player sales is immediately apparent when you look at how small their revenue is. Although it is the tenth highest in Italy at €41 million, leaving them in mid-table respectability (or mediocrity, depending which way you look at it) in the Serie A money league, it is streets behind the leading clubs. Last season, three clubs earned more than five times as much revenue: Inter €225 million, Milan €208 million and Juventus €205 million. Roma generate three times as much revenue at €123 million, while Fiorentina, Napoli and Lazio all have turnovers more than double that of Udinese."



".....This highlights the challenge that would face Udinese in Europe. As an example, when Sampdoria crashed out to Werder Bremen in the final qualifying round for the group stages, they were facing a team whose annual budget is two and a half times as high as their own. Another interesting comparative is that Udinese’s 2009/10 revenue was lower than every single club in the Premier League, so less than the likes of Burnley, Hull City and Portsmouth, who were all relegated to England’s second tier."



The importance of player trading to Udinese’s business can be seen very well in the above graph. If profit on player sales is considered as “revenue”, its contribution has been notable in the past few years, averaging 35-40% of normal turnover since 2008. Put another way, the club makes six times as much from the transfer market as gate receipts. In fact, it makes almost twice as much from player sales as gate receipts and commercial income combined. This would be very worrying if Udinese had not shown that they are more than capable of maintaining this “revenue stream” year after year."

"Udinese’s domestic TV deal was worth around €26 million last season, having risen in 2008 when the new contract was introduced, but this pales into insignificance compared to the €90-100 million that Juventus, Milan and Inter have been earning from their individual deals. These vast differences have meant that the playing field in Italy has been anything but level, but years of protest finally led to a new collective agreement being implemented at the beginning of this season. We know that the total money guaranteed by exclusive media rights partner Infront Sports will be approximately 20% higher than before at over €1 billion a year, but it is still unclear what the impact will be on each club’s revenue.

There is a complicated distribution formula, which will still favour the bigger clubs, though there is likely to be a reduction at the top end. Under the new regulations, 40% will be divided equally among the 20 Serie A clubs; 30% is based on past results (5% last season, 15% last 5 years, 10% from 1946 to the sixth season before last); and 30% is based on the population of the club’s city (5%) and the number of fans (25%)."

"This also underlines the club’s need to work the transfer market, as the profit from one good player sale (€8 million) is the equivalent of Udinese tripling their gate receipts."

Great read, but this article has nothing to do with what you said a global scale...

It still very much dispels the fallacy in the argument of this topic, that is that Udinese is selling its stars because they're greedy.