Barca fans: Why the obsession with Cesc by your club?

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Why cant Thiago just be back up to Iniesta plus have spot minutes at false 9 or winger?

well, you just signed a star in the making in Sanchez that you will have to play quite a bit to get the goods from, big investment from rosell, he can play false 9 and winger. And you have Afellay that has been there for a couple of months already, also talented, young and ambituous, and can play false 9 and winger i believe.

Sure he can be Iniesta's back up, nothing wrong with that. It's just my understanding that cesc will be first off the bench to sub one of Xavi/Iniesta. I dont think Cesc will be assigned as Xavi's back up, and Thiago as Iniesta' back up. Any opening will be good to get cesc the minutes he commands, and while Xavi needs to be rested, Iniesta is in his prime and will need little rotation. If that's all the time Thiago is getting then it's bad business.

Things wont be a literal translation of what i just described, but hopefully you get my point.

Sanchez primarly rotated with Villa and Pedro. Which means in theory, no more 8 games without scoring for Villa and we have no choice but to play him.

Him plus Affelay as main back up to the forwards I assume.

And yes I do get your point, when either Xavi or Iniesta (just one) doesnt play or comes off, it will be Cesc who plays. That annoys me and thats the reason I dont want him.

But what I am saying is, he isnt needed any more or any less then Sahin is.

Thiago could of been first off the bench to sub these guys, if you guys worked with Canales, gave him a bit more playing time and thhus gave him motivation to work harder, he might of been first off the bench and you wouldnt of had to buy Sahin.

That is all I am saying really, Cesc isnt needed, but we can use him.

Sahin isnt needed, but you can use him.

Its not really much different.

Thats not true he get's nicked up all the time. Just keep thinking that every year we will just avoid injuries like we have an angel watching over our extremely small squad.

You should be thankful last year played out like it did for us with injuries, you shouldn't expect it every year, it was a blessing.

And again, any fan of any other team will tell you we got Fab for a very cheap price, the fact that he used to play for us has nothing to do with anything. Arsenal were in a bad situation and forced to only negotiate with one team. I don't understand why you think we should get some super crazy deal, what's your reasoning?

Iniesta isnt injury prone, you said he was, your incorrect. Maybe we should buy a Lahm in case Dani Alves get injured?

Yes, the price is cheap so you say. But just now, you said it was a steal...I fail to see the steal.

I dnt expect we should get some super deal, dont think I have ever said that once.

The Franchise wrote:
Sanchez primarly rotated with Villa and Pedro. Which means in theory, no more 8 games without scoring for Villa and we have no choice but to play him.

Him plus Affelay as main back up to the forwards I assume.

And yes I do get your point, when either Xavi or Iniesta (just one) doesnt play or comes off, it will be Cesc who plays. That annoys me and thats the reason I dont want him.

But what I am saying is, he isnt needed any more or any less then Sahin is.

Thiago could of been first off the bench to sub these guys, if you guys worked with Canales, gave him a bit more playing time and thhus gave him motivation to work harder, he might of been first off the bench and you wouldnt of had to buy Sahin.

That is all I am saying really, Cesc isnt needed, but we can use him.

Sahin isnt needed, but you can use him.

Its not really much different.

Glad you see what i mean. Here is the difference between Sahin and Cesc for both of us. We lack playmakers in the withdrawn area of the midfield. We are a very direct team, so even if Alonso is out, as he were sometimes during last season, we could get by because we can try to bypass that build up from the middle. I hate it at times, but fact is, we lost most of our points last season when Alonso was out, and we had to bear some horrendous moments with Lass and Khedira in the middle.

Alonso was our only DLP in the double pivot, so if he is out, troubles. you guys play a tridente, and even if Xavi is out, Iniesta can pick it up, and it's well in Biscuit skills to do some distribution. On top of it, you guys are adding Thiago this season, and you had Messi coming deep to pick up the ball. Not really the same to be honest.

It's harder to play the double pivot with no playmaker, hence Sahin was needed, and i think we will play him with Alonso at times because there will be an interesting chemistry. As far as im concerned, i would add one more, because i dont really trust granero much. 4 players for 2 positions, with potential to expand to a 3 man midfield and be comfortable without adding Pepe to fill in....

As much as i like Canales, he isnt a DLP, and one thing i realize with Canales, he is super raw, as opposed to Thiago who mastered that position quite a bit already, he is natural at it.

That's why i'm saying, Sahin is needed, and we will him.

Cesc wasnt "needed" but you will have to use him. Not that you dont deserve to add more depth, but you added a superstar, that's the only point i have reserves about. He commands playing time ahead of anyone else you have in there. At times you will play him in the middle and move Iniesta as winger just so he can play.

It is a steal, we are going to get him for about 15 mill off of what he would normally go for and he is not in the last year of his deal or anything like that.

We are getting about a 35% break on his price from a team who didn't want to sell him in the first place, that is awesome why do you fail to see this? Many would consider this a steal, you can continue to say very good deal instead of steal but you are just arguing symantics.

Also, about your previous point, we would be screwed w/o Alves for a long amount of time, I would love to have a great backup for him, because as I said before last year we had a VERY small team all we are doing is catching up in numbers to all the other big teams.

Again, we are one of the biggest teams in the world, we can afford to have some insurance and the problems with that usually lie with the player who has to sit on the bench, that is not the case. Cesc knows what he is walking into.

Also, Pep is the one who wants Cesc. I would argue there is not a better coach in the world that gets the most out of his youth system and knows how to bring these players up to the senior team. He coached the B-team, and he is very in tune to what is going on with the players on the B-team.

If Pep thinks bringing in Cesc would derail Thiago I doubt he would be so proactive about it. We are just fans sitting on a message board who would probably freak out if we ran into the players on Barcelona's team. Pep is with them everyday and knows more about Thiago and Cesc then we could dream. Give the man some credit, he knows what he is doing, have some faith.

Fab coming to Barca does not mean Thiago is leaving or won't play. Thiago knew we were getting Cesc and he signed a contract extension anyways, TRUST IN PEP, enjoy the man while we have him.

Yes, I get what your saying Nick. Without Alonso, you lose something big and Sahin has the profile to fill that gap.

If Xavi is out, we lose something, but by comitte plus style (Iniesta, Messi deep, Thaigo) we have the means to fill it, without Cesc.

I agree with that point.

But I mean numerically, in terms of minutes on the pitch, Cesc isnt that big a difference to Sahin.

On topic, who do you think will play more minutes? Cesc or Sahin?

you know, sometimes men in power get so much suck into their own world that they lose track of reality...

Pep might just be feeling victim of the same phenomenon..

@Dani, Interesting question, i would say Sahin, because he will fit into tactical variations a lot more, and he was the priority signing for the summer. Cesc can play just as much, but that will be at the expense of the others.

dnmac4 wrote:It is a steal, we are going to get him for about 15 mill off of what he would normally go for and he is not in the last year of his deal or anything like that.

We are getting about a 35% break on his price from a team who didn't want to sell him in the first place, that is awesome why do you fail to see this? Many would consider this a steal, you can continue to say very good deal instead of steal but you are just arguing symantics.

Also, about your previous point, we would be screwed w/o Alves for a long amount of time, I would love to have a great backup for him, because as I said before last year we had a VERY small team all we are doing is catching up in numbers to all the other big teams.

Again, we are one of the biggest teams in the world, we can afford to have some insurance and the problems with that usually lie with the player who has to sit on the bench, that is not the case. Cesc knows what he is walking into.

Thats not us stealing him....as I already explained.

You say great deal, I say we dont need him. Whatever. Doesnt matter who is right. But we have not stole him.

We paid money for someone we had in the first place. There is no steal in that.

If we buy Toral back in 7 years time for "his value" is us stealing him? Or in fact have we just paid for what we already once had?

Why dont I see the awesomeness? Because when Thiago complains about not playing and wants to leave we will say, damn, we lost a good talent for nothing.

Excuse me for not liking to pay over 30m for a player, who either wont be a starter or will be and the team actually suffers for it.

So, to clarify, you are sainyg he could/should buy someone like Lahm as back up..in case he gets injured? Seriously?

Barca has a scary midfield now, it is getting hard to overtake them this season, but hoping for the best! I just wish we would have gotten a little more depth ourselves in the midfield it seems a little thin compared to defense and offence

dnmac4 wrote:Also, Pep is the one who wants Cesc. I would argue there is not a better coach in the world that gets the most out of his youth system and knows how to bring these players up to the senior team. He coached the B-team, and he is very in tune to what is going on with the players on the B-team.

If Pep thinks bringing in Cesc would derail Thiago I doubt he would be so proactive about it. We are just fans sitting on a message board who would probably freak out if we ran into the players on Barcelona's team. Pep is with them everyday and knows more about Thiago and Cesc then we could dream. Give the man some credit, he knows what he is doing, have some faith.

Fab coming to Barca does not mean Thiago is leaving or won't play. Thiago knew we were getting Cesc and he signed a contract extension anyways, TRUST IN PEP, enjoy the man while we have him.

Give him credit? I do, but that doesnt mean he is immune to mistakes.

He could of used Bojan more he didnt.

He could of rewarded the good play Bojan showed. He didnt.

Bojan is now gone after listening to Pep and his stories about patience and your time will come.

Thiago signed a contract, buy you can get your bottom dollar someone in his camp asked about playing time and assurances.

If Thiago isnt played as much as he likes he will go.

Pep says he will play and he will get his time?

Pep said he wouldnt stop untill Bojan made it..now look.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:you know, sometimes men in power get so much suck into their own world that they lose track of reality...

Pep might just be feeling victim of the same phenomenon..

@Dani, Interesting question, i would say Sahin, because he will fit into tactical variations a lot more, and he was the priority signing for the summer. Cesc can play just as much, but that will be at the expense of the others.

Lets say Cesc plays at the expense of Thiago.

Then do you see Cesc playing as much as Sahin?

I imagine Sahin can play with Alonso in most games, the only ones I expect him not to play with Alonso would be Barca and perhaps a few tricky away games (Valencia, Blibao, CL big boys).

The Franchise wrote:

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:you know, sometimes men in power get so much suck into their own world that they lose track of reality...

Pep might just be feeling victim of the same phenomenon..

@Dani, Interesting question, i would say Sahin, because he will fit into tactical variations a lot more, and he was the priority signing for the summer. Cesc can play just as much, but that will be at the expense of the others.

Lets say Cesc plays at the expense of Thiago.

Then do you see Cesc playing as much as Sahin?

I imagine Sahin can play with Alonso in most games, the only ones I expect him not to play with Alonso would be Barca and perhaps a few tricky away games (Valencia, Blibao, CL big boys).

I think Mourinho has the idea to play the 433 in some very sensible games, and Sahin fits right into it. Add that to the circumstances you described, Sahin benching Alonso here and there as well, then yeah he will have more time.

For some strange, I feel like Cesc is going to have an awful lot of minutes, Pep has been fapping so much over him that i think he will put his boy wonder anywhere he can.

The only way I see heavy minutes for Cesc and the promises of Thiago being kept is considerably more forced rest for Xavi and Iniesta.

Now, what that means is, Cesc needs to get his backside in gear asap because any misteps and we notice it.

Cesc is obviously great, but at Barca, we can tell if the pass his half a second too slow, if he is taking 1 touch too many on the ball, all the details. Everyone assumes Cesc will come right in and be great, thats bery possible, but people need to remember he will be compared with Xavi and Iniesta and people will tell how close he is to them. If he isnt up to par, people will call for less time for him and back to overuse of Xavi and Iniesta.

My ultimate hope is Thiago forcing the issue. He is playing so well, he is playing at such a high level, he might just force Pep to play him. I hope so, because it wont take much of an exuse for underusing him.

@Dani

Prediction about your line up? I really want to see it, will Sergi play? Pedro? Cesc? or maybe Villa?

would be funny to see Thiago pushing cesc around

but here is another reality, even if cesc is a step slower than the desire product, pep will play him that much more to get him in shape.

StrugaRock wrote:@Dani

Prediction about your line up? I really want to see it, will Sergi play? Pedro? Cesc? or maybe Villa?

Exact same 11 as last season.

Of course, if Pep wants to make this whole thing he has brought on work, the line up will have to change a heck of alot from game to game.

But by the end of the season, barring serious injury, I expect the normal 11 to have played the most minutes.

Sanchez if he does well could be close to Pedro and Villa for minutes played, but I think that will depend on him. Peps lack of patience with players worries me so I wont proclaim he will use him as much as I think his talent might warrant.

Cesc obviously will play alot, but I dont expect Cesc to play as many minutes as Iniesta or Xavi, siomply because I think they are better.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:would be funny to see Thiago pushing cesc around

but here is another reality, even if cesc is a step slower than the desire product, pep will play him that much more to get him in shape.

And Thiago could do it. He has improvisation none of the 3 have.

But your right, even if Cesc doesnt play as many expect, Pep will show infinate patience untill he finds it.

Its not like Cesc will ever be as bad a fit as say a Ibra or a Caceres where he is literally forced into not playing them for the good of the team.

Pep is sending so many mixed signals tho, on one hand he has the most talented CM of our generation at his disposal, he says he trusts him, but he feels the need to put one of the best CM in the game today, in his path, a player not even in his prime.

Long term it's gonna be hard, a choice needed to be made, no way Thiago remains on the barca's bench past the next two seasons, and logically, even if Xavi calls it a quit, he will be behind Iniesta and Fabregas still.

Unless Pep plans for a 4222 with explosive wing backs, or a diamond midfield with Thiago, inesta and Cesc starting, there is no happy ending.

Del Bosque committed the ultimate sin, he gave a taste of ultimate grandeur to the kid with a call up against Italy. The doors of the national team are open for him, calling for him, he will not sit on the bench like Bojan.

Think of it this way:

You are 15 and you are dating a super hot chick from your high school ... You love her, she loves you back. The sex is great and both of you just can't get enough.

One day, the girl has to move outta country because his parents' job requires so. It's sad...but w.e you move on, she moves on. You go on and date other girls, and so does she with other guys...you both sleep with others ...but one day you think back and say: DAMN, That was awesome shit for being 15 ...and bang, she is thinking the same...so why not bring back the glory days and live it up again ?

Cesc Fabregas today trained with his Arsenal team mates despite the world wide web erupting with claims that the Arsenal captain has signed for Barcelona.

Photographs on the official club website clearly show Fabregas participating in a training session that the club says took place on Friday ahead of the first game of the new season against Newcastle.

This follows Arsenal Wenger`s statement saying he wasn`t expecting anyone to leave Arsenal football club this month.

Samir Nasri was also pictured in training.
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I think Wenger might have just told Barcelona to frak them-self. I think the papers even fooled the Barcelona players.

holding out to a burnt out candle. Cesc was about to leave London but they pushed back his departure for Spain a little bit. Barcelona was doing too much celebrating already. He will be in Spain by Sunday and will sign a new contract by Monday. let it go, it's done. The barca bunch went rampage on twitter because they know it's over.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:holding out to a burnt out candle. Cesc was about to leave London but they pushed back his departure for Spain a little bit. Barcelona was doing too much celebrating already. He will be in Spain by Sunday and will sign a new contract by Monday. let it go, it's done. The barca bunch went rampage on twitter because they know it's over.

A couple tweets is a rampage :?:

Ok we will see on Sunday.

The Franchise wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:It is a steal, we are going to get him for about 15 mill off of what he would normally go for and he is not in the last year of his deal or anything like that.

We are getting about a 35% break on his price from a team who didn't want to sell him in the first place, that is awesome why do you fail to see this? Many would consider this a steal, you can continue to say very good deal instead of steal but you are just arguing symantics.

Also, about your previous point, we would be screwed w/o Alves for a long amount of time, I would love to have a great backup for him, because as I said before last year we had a VERY small team all we are doing is catching up in numbers to all the other big teams.

Again, we are one of the biggest teams in the world, we can afford to have some insurance and the problems with that usually lie with the player who has to sit on the bench, that is not the case. Cesc knows what he is walking into.

Thats not us stealing him....as I already explained.

You say great deal, I say we dont need him. Whatever. Doesnt matter who is right. But we have not stole him.

We paid money for someone we had in the first place. There is no steal in that.

If we buy Toral back in 7 years time for "his value" is us stealing him? Or in fact have we just paid for what we already once had?

Why dont I see the awesomeness? Because when Thiago complains about not playing and wants to leave we will say, damn, we lost a good talent for nothing.

Excuse me for not liking to pay over 30m for a player, who either wont be a starter or will be and the team actually suffers for it.

So, to clarify, you are sainyg he could/should buy someone like Lahm as back up..in case he gets injured? Seriously?

There are a couple fundamental points we disagree on and it is useless to argue over them because we will not change our minds.

Point 1- You think since we had Cesc when he was a kid that should have some kind effect on his price or the structure of the deal or I don't really know what your point is here? I disagree. Most players bounce around as young kids and the fact that he left maybe would effect Barca saying you left deal with it, I could see that, but that is obviously not the case as we want him. If we want him we have to pay.

For example if Madrid wanted Soldado back, Valencia wouldn't say hey you guys had him as a youngster you get a cut price deal. One has no effect on the other. Like I said you either don't buy him because your mad he left like he did, but if you do you should not expect special exceptions.

Point 2- I think Thiago is a special player that has great POTENTIAL. In my opinion I don't think he will ever be as good as Fab and definatly is not as good now, again we probably disagree here but I rate Fab very highly and you probably the same for Thiago. The last time he played close to a full season I believe he led Europe in setting up the most scoring chances and he has a great eye for goal.

Like I said Thiago has a lot of the same qualities, but with a team like Madrid who are going to be great this year chasing us down, I feel much more comfortable playing Cesc if needed. I think our margin for victory in the league is so small this year as who ever wins La Liga it will be by less then 3 points. At the start of the transfer market we could not handle injuries and win the league but Madrid could. They are one of the deepest teams in the world, and we had to catch up, which we have.

Right now if Puyol and Xavi or Iniesta are hurt we can put Busquets in defense and have a midfield of Masch Thiago and Cesc. That is awesome. I did not like how we looked in pre season with Iniesta running Xavi's role. It didn't fit as he needs to be furthur up field. Right now if Xavi or Iniesta are hurt I feel comfortable facing any team in the world.

Point 3: With the trophies we have won and the money we earn every year we can afford to have insurance for our star players. We can pay 30 something Mill for Fab if we want if it doesn't work out it's not the end of the world. We payed twice as much for Ibra and we had a blip for one season and then went back to winning a double.

It's not every day that a player like Cesc tells you I want to play for you and I will cut down my salary and don't mind not starting/sitting on the bench. Do you know how many teams would love to be in this situation? The positives in my mind out weigh the negatives ten fold which is why I don't understand why Barca fans don't like this.

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

There are a couple fundamental points we disagree on and it is useless to argue over them because we will not change our minds.

Point 1- You think since we had Cesc when he was a kid that should have some kind effect on his price or the structure of the deal or I don't really know what your point is here? I disagree. Most players bounce around as young kids and the fact that he left maybe would effect Barca saying you left deal with it, I could see that, but that is obviously not the case as we want him. If we want him we have to pay.

For example if Madrid wanted Soldado back, Valencia wouldn't say hey you guys had him as a youngster you get a cut price deal. One has no effect on the other. Like I said you either don't buy him because your mad he left like he did, but if you do you should not expect special exceptions.

Point 2- I think Thiago is a special player that has great POTENTIAL. In my opinion I don't think he will ever be as good as Fab and definatly is not as good now, again we probably disagree here but I rate Fab very highly and you probably the same for Thiago. The last time he played close to a full season I believe he led Europe in setting up the most scoring chances and he has a great eye for goal.

Like I said Thiago has a lot of the same qualities, but with a team like Madrid who are going to be great this year chasing us down, I feel much more comfortable playing Cesc if needed. I think our margin for victory in the league is so small this year as who ever wins La Liga it will be by less then 3 points. At the start of the transfer market we could not handle injuries and win the league but Madrid could. They are one of the deepest teams in the world, and we had to catch up, which we have.

Right now if Puyol and Xavi or Iniesta are hurt we can put Busquets in defense and have a midfield of Masch Thiago and Cesc. That is awesome. I did not like how we looked in pre season with Iniesta running Xavi's role. It didn't fit as he needs to be furthur up field. Right now if Xavi or Iniesta are hurt I feel comfortable facing any team in the world.

Point 3: With the trophies we have won and the money we earn every year we can afford to have insurance for our star players. We can pay 30 something Mill for Fab if we want if it doesn't work out it's not the end of the world. We payed twice as much for Ibra and we had a blip for one season and then went back to winning a double.

It's not every day that a player like Cesc tells you I want to play for you and I will cut down my salary and don't mind not starting/sitting on the bench. Do you know how many teams would love to be in this situation? The positives in my mind out weigh the negatives ten fold which is why I don't understand why Barca fans don't like this.

Why on earth do you keep saying I think his price should be effected because he was ours? I dont know how many times I can say I didnt say that and I am not saying it. If you dont listen, there is nothing I can do.

His price shouldnt be effected by this fact....quote me on it...

I am saying, we didnt steal him....the word...STEAL...we have not done that. We payed value for him.


Point number 2, I dont agre with, but I understand you stance and was with you untill you said Busi at the back is awesome. I honestly cant agree with that with one fibre of my being...its far from awesome..he sucks there.

Again, before that, I was with you. I dont agree Thiago cant be as good as Cesc, in fact, I think he will be as good as him, if not better, just different. But its not important, I can understand if you dont agree with that and I think you can accept if I dont agree with my claim.

But the Busi at the back thing, I cant understand, its not awesome. If you want me to explain this I will, but for now, thats all I will say.


Point 3, I also understand. But I dont agree that the positives outweight the negative, espeically not to the extent your saying..10 fold. Again, I follow your trail of thought on this one, but I dont agree.

edit: I realised I said, we payed value for him, Cesc. I will retract that, I want to see what the final deal is and what exactly it is before I say value, over or undervalue.