Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

by shaven Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:16 am

Ya sell ozil and keep di maria! LOL

by Onyx Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:40 pm

by Nedved Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:33 pm

Get over it Gals. It's over.

by sportsczy Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:39 pm

From here lets attempt to look at the "Ozil transfer" from a distance & with some facts:

Economical:

(a) The Father of Mesut Ozil had been attempting for months to get Real Madrid to lift the salary of his son from 3.5M€ to around 7M€, to which Real Madrid said now is not the moment. The Father of Ozil then went around Europe "selling" his son in order to pressure Real Madrid, & in doing so convinced his son that the Spanish Football Club did not value him as a Footballer. First reason: Ozil was badly advised.

(b) Ozil has got what he was looking for a higher wage. In fact Arsenal Fans should know that Ozil waited until the last moment before signing for Arsenal awaiting an offer from Manchester United that did not come because United was incompetent. Second fact: Arsenal is second choice. In fact the only choice.

(c) Some say the Ozil was sold to pay for Gareth Bale. This is only partly true. Real Madrid bought Ozil for 15M€ & had an offer of 45M€ ( 50M€ ) for a player that was being offered by the Father of Ozil around Europe & a disgruntled player for not receiving a pay rise. However, the final choice was always up to Ozil. Third reason: Ozil unilaterally & independently decided to leave, Real Madrid did not kick him out as it is being insinuated. It was the choice of Ozil ( & Father ).

Sporting:

(a) The signing of Isco had displaced Ozil to a flank, the right flank. The German was not happy playing there & voiced it. Substituted, the German showed his continual frustration.
(b) The signing of Gareth Bale would shift Ozil from the right flank onto the bench. This was the upcoming reality for the German. That is Football.
(c) Ozil is irregular, he plays two great games & plays two bad games. In Spain the term used to describe it is "he lacks blood". This is a handicap for any player, a characteristic which halts your Football progression onto greater Football things.

Thus Ozil was already told & it was obvious that he would be less "a star" & would play less. That he would have to fight for his place & on top of it with the World Cup next year.

According to Ozil the Coach Ancelotti & Real Madrid had lost confidence in him. This is not totally correct. Ozil was lead to believe that the Club lost confidence in him by his Father who was pushing his son to go elsewhere to earn more money, while Coach Ancelotti only let Ozil know that he was no longer "untouchable" , that he had to earn his place, that there were other players better suited in his position & that the only "opening" for now was the right flank that he did not like.

Personal:

It is well know in local circles that Ozil leads a somewhat "erratic" social life. Although observers say that this tendency has been curbed somewhat it is still present. A personal characteristic that needs to be dominated if your are to be a great Football player.

In summary, there is no doubt that Mesut Ozil is a great Football Player with immense talent & Football magic. An exceptional player which still has some way to go if he wishes to & sets that goal. The decision to sign for Arsenal & leave Real Madrid is only his - Mesut Ozil - encouraged by an "over zealous" & financially ambitious Father-rep that has badly advised his son & is not looking after the true interests of Mesut.

Ozil took the easy way out. Instead of taking the decision of staying at Real Madrid & fight for his place to prove Coach Ancelotti - & himself - that he is better than Isco, Modric & Bale; he thought only in himself, the money, the World Cup next season & to avoid the existing real risk of sitting on the bench & being a secondary actor. These are the real reasons, the rest is just expressed emotions, bad information & politically interested comments.

Real Madrid CF is bigger than any player. The following list of players all left the Club & perhaps worst than Ozil: Di Stefano, Amancio, Pirri, Butrageño, Hierro, Raul, Redondo, Makelele...etc & etc ( many more in the History of the Club) , all of the mentioned names Club legends & World Football Stars, & Real Madrid kept going on & did not fall apart. Ozil has gone, it is history & his Football will be remembered. But Ozil will remember more Real Madrid than Real Madrid will remember Ozil, the German may have made the worst choice of his career because he decided to take the easy way out.

http://spanishfootballsports.blogspot.ca/2013/09/the-true-reasons-behind-mesut-ozil.html

by Nivash Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:50 pm

sportsczy wrote:
From here lets attempt to look at the "Ozil transfer" from a distance & with some facts:

Economical:

(a) The Father of Mesut Ozil had been attempting for months to get Real Madrid to lift the salary of his son from 3.5M€ to around 7M€, to which Real Madrid said now is not the moment. The Father of Ozil then went around Europe "selling" his son in order to pressure Real Madrid, & in doing so convinced his son that the Spanish Football Club did not value him as a Footballer. First reason: Ozil was badly advised.

(b) Ozil has got what he was looking for a higher wage. In fact Arsenal Fans should know that Ozil waited until the last moment before signing for Arsenal awaiting an offer from Manchester United that did not come because United was incompetent. Second fact: Arsenal is second choice. In fact the only choice.

(c) Some say the Ozil was sold to pay for Gareth Bale. This is only partly true. Real Madrid bought Ozil for 15M€ & had an offer of 45M€ ( 50M€ ) for a player that was being offered by the Father of Ozil around Europe & a disgruntled player for not receiving a pay rise. However, the final choice was always up to Ozil. Third reason: Ozil unilaterally & independently decided to leave, Real Madrid did not kick him out as it is being insinuated. It was the choice of Ozil ( & Father ).

Sporting:

(a) The signing of Isco had displaced Ozil to a flank, the right flank. The German was not happy playing there & voiced it. Substituted, the German showed his continual frustration.
(b) The signing of Gareth Bale would shift Ozil from the right flank onto the bench. This was the upcoming reality for the German. That is Football.
(c) Ozil is irregular, he plays two great games & plays two bad games. In Spain the term used to describe it is "he lacks blood". This is a handicap for any player, a characteristic which halts your Football progression onto greater Football things.

Thus Ozil was already told & it was obvious that he would be less "a star" & would play less. That he would have to fight for his place & on top of it with the World Cup next year.

According to Ozil the Coach Ancelotti & Real Madrid had lost confidence in him. This is not totally correct. Ozil was lead to believe that the Club lost confidence in him by his Father who was pushing his son to go elsewhere to earn more money, while Coach Ancelotti only let Ozil know that he was no longer "untouchable" , that he had to earn his place, that there were other players better suited in his position & that the only "opening" for now was the right flank that he did not like.

Personal:

It is well know in local circles that Ozil leads a somewhat "erratic" social life. Although observers say that this tendency has been curbed somewhat it is still present. A personal characteristic that needs to be dominated if your are to be a great Football player.

In summary, there is no doubt that Mesut Ozil is a great Football Player with immense talent & Football magic. An exceptional player which still has some way to go if he wishes to & sets that goal. The decision to sign for Arsenal & leave Real Madrid is only his - Mesut Ozil - encouraged by an "over zealous" & financially ambitious Father-rep that has badly advised his son & is not looking after the true interests of Mesut.

Ozil took the easy way out. Instead of taking the decision of staying at Real Madrid & fight for his place to prove Coach Ancelotti - & himself - that he is better than Isco, Modric & Bale; he thought only in himself, the money, the World Cup next season & to avoid the existing real risk of sitting on the bench & being a secondary actor. These are the real reasons, the rest is just expressed emotions, bad information & politically interested comments.

Real Madrid CF is bigger than any player. The following list of players all left the Club & perhaps worst than Ozil: Di Stefano, Amancio, Pirri, Butrageño, Hierro, Raul, Redondo, Makelele...etc & etc ( many more in the History of the Club) , all of the mentioned names Club legends & World Football Stars, & Real Madrid kept going on & did not fall apart. Ozil has gone, it is history & his Football will be remembered. But Ozil will remember more Real Madrid than Real Madrid will remember Ozil, the German may have made the worst choice of his career because he decided to take the easy way out.
http://spanishfootballsports.blogspot.ca/2013/09/the-true-reasons-behind-mesut-ozil.html

Apart from Makelele, all those players left the club when they were in the twilight of their careers, not when they were about to enter the theoretical peak.

Madrid is and always will be bigger than any player, but that doesn't detract from the fact that we've lost a hugely talented player, easily one of the best in his position, who is equally loved by the fans and his teammates.

by Onyx Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:05 pm

The club should of supported Ozil more. He was one of the best players at the club. Instead he was being treated as if he's some backup.

He should of got his salary increase and Ancelotti should have thought about Ozil while devising a formation.

I guess his dad did exaggerate things, however Ozil did deserve to be treated better.

by FalcaoPunch Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:11 pm

That post/article is a good read.
But with the logic there, you'd think others would be more understanding of the Iker - Lopez situation

by sportsczy Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:37 pm

Again, he's currently making 3.5 mil net.... 7 mil net is over 14 mil gross. He wanted more money gross than Iker and CR7 lol. Of course, CR7 is under the Bakham law (now defunct)... so his 10 mil net = 13 mil gross. But still lol.

by Doc Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:11 pm

Treated better? MT, you're being really ridiculous now and you need to drop it. Ozil ran when things got heated and pretty much listened to "bad" advice from his father. On what basis does he get a salary increase? What basis does he get a whole formation dedicated to him?

Ozil could have stayed and fight, he could shown Carlo, Zizou, Perez and his teammates that he is worth being in the starting 11. Now, I don't blame him for looking at his career as it is his career but let's not pretend he was in treated badly. He left on his terms.

by Onyx Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:02 pm

Alonso and Modric were getting more than Ozil. Ozil was one of the top 2 attackers at the club. He's no longer just some up and coming prospect. He was a top player.

In terms of formation, again, considering he was one of the top two attackers and he fitted the new possession style, Ancelotti should have thought more when deciding what formation to play. Surely Ancelotti knew of Ozil's poor stamina and also about where Ozil played best, which is CAM, not RW.

He's created the most chances and assists since 2008 and he's arguably the best AM in the World.

by Mr Nick09 Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:05 am

can you stop acting like Ozil is the chosen one ffs, he is not. he never managed to become the boss of our midfield ffs, stop crying. Maybe you should ask yourself why Ancelotti didnt feel like he absolutely had to play Ozil at n10?

by Valkyrja Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:21 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:can you stop acting like Ozil is the chosen one ffs, he is not. he never managed to become the boss of our midfield ffs, stop crying. Maybe you should ask yourself why Ancelotti didnt feel like he absolutely had to play Ozil at n10?

that's because the team was/is built around Ronaldo, which is not a bad thing. just look at his performances with Germany.

by Onyx Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:24 am

Maybe he thought Ozil would do fine out wide. But that wasn't the case. Ozil's poor stamina might make it hard for him to track back and he also prefers and is better in the middle.

He was one of our best players and still is only 24, so he could have got even better. He's perfectly suited for Ancelotti's style. Ancelotti could have tried a diamond or a pure 4-3-2-1.

by Mr Nick09 Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:03 am

Valkyrja wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:can you stop acting like Ozil is the chosen one ffs, he is not. he never managed to become the boss of our midfield ffs, stop crying. Maybe you should ask yourself why Ancelotti didnt feel like he absolutely had to play Ozil at n10?
that's because the team was/is built around Ronaldo, which is not a bad thing. just look at his performances with Germany.

he is not even dominant in tourney, did fck all during the euros. please sthap this nonsense all of you. Even with Germany he doesnt boss, control and dominate the midfield.

by chad4401 Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:46 am

After calming down and doing some reading ozil imo did indeed ran, I still think he is good enough to displace anyone if really focused, but he acted like some stuck up cheerleader and his dad is a noob agent that sent his son from madrid to arsenal for more money smh

by Pedram Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:31 am

People are still under the illusion that Ozil's performance hasn't downgraded after his first season. after that season his inconsistency began but some people tend to ignore it.

I don't know what happened to him but clearly his father has a lot of influence on him, maybe he told him to take it easier when he cemented his place in the starting XI.

by FennecFox7 Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:56 am

i aint even mad about ozil. but undergrading his talent is retarded. he was very good, a bad run of form doesn't change that. god madrid fans are the most fickle
why buy bale to get rid of ozil. there are better options had we pursued them

by sportsczy Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:42 am

He had no natural position under Carlo's system... there is no AM or 10. So Ozil either had to adapt or he would be gone. He wasn't adapting. Now i don't think preseason + 3 games is enough. However, there is extreme competition in Madrid. He would have had to fight to play and he didn't want to do that.

by halamadrid2 Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:53 am

iirc both Ozil and Benz signed 5 ME a year contracts when they came so he couldn't possibly have gotten 3.5 ME a year. Thats the poverty contract Higgy was on when he left and he didn't make it a secret he left for contractual deceivings

Besides nobody in their right mind will ask a club to bump their contract by 3.5 ME lol thats insanity not even Jorge Mendes asks for that kind of increases to his players. Established players such as Ramos have asked the club for an increase by 1.5 from 5 ME to 6.5 ME. dont think Mustafa was that deluded

And for the umpteenth time Bale didn't come to compete with Ozil/Dimaria he came to compete with Benz so no Bale wasn't the reason he left. he left because he didn't want to fight for a place in a position he was unfamiliar with and he didn't feel important by the club

by sportsczy Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:21 am

3.5 mil net HM2... he was asking for 7 mil net now. His contract was 6.2 mil gross like Benz. At 7 mil net, it would be north of 14 mil lol.

by sportsczy Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:22 am

Bale has played exactly 3 games at CF in his entire life... he is absolutely not coming in to play that position. In fact, Paul Clement, Carlo's assistant, confirmed that Bale is either wing player or a central attacking mid in an interview yesterday when asked when Bale would be ready.

by Valkyrja Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:08 am

Pedram wrote:People are still under the illusion that Ozil's performance hasn't downgraded after his first season. after that season his inconsistency began but some people tend to ignore it.

I don't know what happened to him but clearly his father has a lot of influence on him, maybe he told him to take it easier when he cemented his place in the starting XI.

He was better in the second season.

by halamadrid2 Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:49 am

sportsczy wrote:Bale has played exactly 3 games at CF in his entire life... he is absolutely not coming in to play that position. In fact, Paul Clement, Carlo's assistant, confirmed that Bale is either wing player or a central attacking mid in an interview yesterday when asked when Bale would be ready.

and he has played none as a right winger

Clemente claimed Bale has played "centrally"(and on the left) not CAM. Kaka left because he knew he would have gone further down the pecking order with Bales arrival and he confirmed that himself

the only guys who could qualify for that RAM role is DiMaria and to some extent Benz. but absolutely not Bale. just like Ronaldo can't play LAM Bale can't play RAM and I am sure Carlo knows this perfectly and has chosen that RF role as the one he will occupy

I am not saying this because I am a dimaria fan but I am just being realistic with what he can and can not do. as a L/R AM you have got to be creative and Bale doesn't qualify as this. in fact I knew Ozil would push DiMaria to the bench in that role but I knew dimaria would play alot due to ozils inconsistencies.

As for the wages. I am starting to get confused here. id love to know a site where it tells us how much they all make

by sportsczy Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:13 pm

Bale spent 25% of his time on the right wing last year... 40% on the center and 35% on the left according to season heat maps.

Also, changing wings is much, much easier (although still hard) then changing positions... especially the CF spot that is very specialized.

Finally... why the frak would you even want to do that!!! (thank god the coaches won't). Bale's entire style is based on space and speed. He's very much a push the ball and chase it type player. What he doesn't do well in is tight spaces because you need tight control and tricky dribbling... neither of which he does well. Also, he doesn't have a quick trigger shot. Like CR7, he likes to wind it up.

It makes absolutely zero sense. Thankfully, nobody but a few fans are even considering it.

by sportsczy Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:22 pm

Here. I picked a match against Liverpool in March 2013 to show Bale's positioning last year:

Mesut Ozil discussion - Page 28 BaleLiverpool_zps701cef3e

Mesut Ozil discussion - Page 28 BaleLiverpool_zps701cef3e

He basically spends most of his time at RAM or RW and cut in. Why? He's a lefty. He likes to cut in and shoot since he was asked to be a scorer last year. He rarely played left because that negated his shot... and scoring since it would make him cut in on his weaker foot.

by halamadrid2 Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:26 pm

sportsczy wrote:Bale spent 25% of his time on the right wing last year... 40% on the center and 35% on the left according to season heat maps.

Also, changing wings is much, much easier (although still hard) then changing positions... especially the CF spot that is very specialized.

Finally... why the frak would you even want to do that!!! (thank god the coaches won't). Bale's entire style is based on space and speed. He's very much a push the ball and chase it type player. What he doesn't do well in is tight spaces because you need tight control and tricky dribbling... neither of which he does well. Also, he doesn't have a quick trigger shot. Like CR7, he likes to wind it up.

It makes absolutely zero sense. Thankfully, nobody but a few fans are even considering it.

we dont exactly play with a CF at the moment with Morata being on the bench so yh his role isn't exactly going to be stay in the box and score type of crap

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