I just came across this video and wanted your opinion

http://cdn.mediatakeout.com/51536/mto-world-exclusive-remember-that-father-who-disciplined-his-son-by-cutting-his-hair-well-they-arrested-him-for-child-abuse.html#.ToyBBKG1dcs.facebook

I'm hoping we can get a real debate/discussion. I find it's important to discipline your children, but I feel this guy took it way too far. Not to mention recording the whole thing, is this guy serious. I hope he gets similar treatment in jail.

If you desensitize your children to violence and you are violent against them, they are more likely to become aggressors themselves when they grow up.

This is child abuse and the perfect recipe to raise a psychopath.

Agreed. Most certainly child abuse. Physically as well as psychologically.

That man should've been born sterile.

this is horrible, I mean I thought, you know, every father has a right to cut his sons hair, but at least do it full...and then rubbing it in his face...and then HITTING HIM, and then MAKING HIM DO DRILLS, no, this guy isn't fit to raise a child, shouldn't go to jail, and if the boy WANTS , he should leave the father, remember, the boy might love him despite all of this.

This is a complicated situation, from what I have read, the child does not have a mother and is living with his father and grandmother.

In one hand, this is clearly child abuse, but you get child sexual abusers who get less than 10 years. I find the 10 year punishment very harsh and counter productive.

I can see the kid becoming a thug over this. The best "productive" course of a action would be enrolling the father is some child raising courses (he is obviously recycling old techniques that happened to him) and putting him under surveillance.

No one will take care of the boy otherwise, and you might as well put him in jail now and end it. The father was wrong to do what he did, but jail would be counter productive and would do nothing but ruin the father's life and his son and the grandmother.

@McLewis; probably the same techniques were used against him too.

ali8775 wrote:this is horrible, I mean I thought, you know, every father has a right to cut his sons hair, but at least do it full...and then rubbing it in his face...and then HITTING HIM, and then MAKING HIM DO DRILLS, no, this guy isn't fit to raise a child, shouldn't go to jail, and if the boy WANTS , he should leave the father, remember, the boy might love him despite all of this.

If he does it doesn't necessarily mean genuine love. Here's one of the reasons why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Senor Penguin wrote:

ali8775 wrote:this is horrible, I mean I thought, you know, every father has a right to cut his sons hair, but at least do it full...and then rubbing it in his face...and then HITTING HIM, and then MAKING HIM DO DRILLS, no, this guy isn't fit to raise a child, shouldn't go to jail, and if the boy WANTS , he should leave the father, remember, the boy might love him despite all of this.

If he does it doesn't necessarily mean genuine love. Here's one of the reasons why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

but...he's his father...

I hear some of what you're saying Lord Spencer, I just happen to think that you must take responsibility for your actions.

For example: My grandfather had a mean and distant father, and he treated my father in a similar way. You can say this was a result of my grandfather having a cold dad, or perhaps they have similar personalities.

My father was not the warmest of dads, but I believe he was an improvement from his own father. I don't think it was anything personal, it's just not who he is. My older brother became a father about four years ago and I must say he is amazing with his daughter. I know there is a lot of time to go and there will be many obstacles, but she is in love with him because he is very warm and caring.

"Be the change that you wanna see" MC Yogi

I don't think it's fair to say no one will take care of this boy. I don't know enough about foster care to comment, but I'd like to think there are some people out there who do care and look to adopt children. Your whole put him in jail now and end it comment was very pessimistic, some people are stronger than others and are able overcome the adversity they face.

Why give this father another chance? He put a video out of him abusing his child. The abuse was already over the line (IMO) and now this kid has to deal with it being all over the net.

Perhaps his grandmother can step it up and get this kid headed in the right direction. Does anyone know if she was aware of the abuse going on?

@Penguin I was thinking the same thing.

That was so disturbing.

Discipline is all wll and good for some children but not that extreme and it's not for all children.

You could see the anguish on the childs face. So wrong.

TetraHydroC 10 wrote:I hear some of what you're saying Lord Spencer, I just happen to think that you must take responsibility for your actions.

For example: My grandfather had a mean and distant father, and he treated my father in a similar way. You can say this was a result of my grandfather having a cold dad, or perhaps they have similar personalities.

My father was not the warmest of dads, but I believe he was an improvement from his own father. I don't think it was anything personal, it's just not who he is. My older brother became a father about four years ago and I must say he is amazing with his daughter. I know there is a lot of time to go and there will be many obstacles, but she is in love with him because he is very warm and caring.

"Be the change that you wanna see" MC Yogi

I don't think it's fair to say no one will take care of this boy. I don't know enough about foster care to comment, but I'd like to think there are some people out there who do care and look to adopt children. Your whole put him in jail now and end it comment was very pessimistic, some people are stronger than others and are able overcome the adversity they face.

Why give this father another chance? He put a video out of him abusing his child. The abuse was already over the line (IMO) and now this kid has to deal with it being all over the net.

Perhaps his grandmother can step it up and get this kid headed in the right direction. Does anyone know if she was aware of the abuse going on?

@Penguin I was thinking the same thing.

From my work in U.S. community care and the foster care system in California, I know for certain that I am not being pessimistic about the whole situation. 1-3 black Americans will go to jail, in California it is 1-2.

The father is messed up. But society has its share of the blame, and throwing him in jail will not solve the initial problem. Also, this does not address the fact that sexual molesters get less time in jail.

I agree on your comment regarding change, but not everyone is fortunate to have the time to do that, most people are struggling just to live.

The main problem I saw from the video was not the things he made the kid do, because I know for certain that he is not the only one in California who does that, but the fact it was video taped, and apparently by a local media outlet who thought what the father did was and I quote "good parenting".

ali8775 wrote:

Senor Penguin wrote:

ali8775 wrote:this is horrible, I mean I thought, you know, every father has a right to cut his sons hair, but at least do it full...and then rubbing it in his face...and then HITTING HIM, and then MAKING HIM DO DRILLS, no, this guy isn't fit to raise a child, shouldn't go to jail, and if the boy WANTS , he should leave the father, remember, the boy might love him despite all of this.

If he does it doesn't necessarily mean genuine love. Here's one of the reasons why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

but...he's his father...

If someone violates a child physically and mentally, I don't think they are entitled to be parents.

10 years is too much, people get less time for bigger crimes IMO. The father might need to be punished, but what he really needs is therapy as no man with his right mind would do this to his own child. Its hard enough for a child to grow up without a mother and now things are gonna be worst now that his father is in jail. you can only imagine the guilt he'll feel everytime he misses his dad, and that wouldnt be pretty

I know you have more experience with some of these topics that have been brought up.

But believe me my family doesn't have it easy and change is not necessarily about having the time. But quality of life is very important, my family has never been closer than it is now. The reason for that is because we're learning to talk and get to know each other. I really liked your idea about the courses, it would be a great opportunity to learn and develop better fathering skills.

I to was very upset by the fact this whole incident was videotaped and shared on the internet.

P.S. I don't want to start a race war and or debate, but I've been hearing these stats about blacks and jail for years now. I understand that cops might target minorities over whites, but at some point there has to be some accountability.

If you're not doing anything illegal you won't get arrested or jailed. Black communities and neighborhoods are often bad and dangerous because of it's own members, not saying they caused it, but at some point you need to make changes. I have also been to "bad" neighborhoods that have an amazing vibe and seem to be taking the proper steps.

In the end, I think the world has a whole, regardless of race, gender, sexual preference etc. need to learn the importance of unity. We're all in the rat race and alone we'll never make a positive change.

Sorry if that was completely off topic and or offensive.


Thank you for the response and please know I have the utmost respect for you (I always keep an eye out for your posts)

Discipline is important in a child, but never, under ANY circumstances, remove his swag.

Prematurely removed swag rarely grows back after traumatic experiences. This father is ruthless.

I can't see the video,but I have concluded that the father cut his son's hair and beat him up,and tapped the whole thing. This is definitely gruesome,but 10 years? Way too much.

I see where you're coming from, LS.

It's quite simple for me however. If you love your child, you don't ever want to see them suffer or even worse, cause the suffering.

This guy either can't or chooses not to see that. I personally think it's the latter.

As I said, men like this shouldn't procreate. They weaken the gene pool.

The thing is, this is not an isolated incident. There are many more fathers who are less severe, but still are borderline abusive. Accountability is indeed there, but if the core of the problem is not fixed it will repeat itself in different ways.

I would hate for anything bad to happen to the kid, and I see there is opportunity to fix the father if he wants to be helped.

I just feel this situation is not so bad it cannot be fixed.

Also, McLewis, there are many people who should not procreate. The world is full of weak people, and it is the duty of the strong to help carry the weak.

Lord Spencer wrote:The thing is, this is not an isolated incident. There are many more fathers who are less severe, but still are borderline abusive. Accountability is indeed there, but if the core of the problem is not fixed it will repeat itself in different ways.

I would hate for anything bad to happen to the kid, and I see there is opportunity to fix the father if he wants to be helped.

I just feel this situation is not so bad it cannot be fixed.

Also, McLewis, there are many people who should not procreate. The world is full of weak people, and it is the duty of the strong to help carry the weak.

You've either phrased that badly or you haven't realized what is apparent; the kid experienced something "bad".

If it stood to me, I'd put energy into rehabilitating the kid and not the father.

Senor Penguin wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:The thing is, this is not an isolated incident. There are many more fathers who are less severe, but still are borderline abusive. Accountability is indeed there, but if the core of the problem is not fixed it will repeat itself in different ways.

I would hate for anything bad to happen to the kid, and I see there is opportunity to fix the father if he wants to be helped.

I just feel this situation is not so bad it cannot be fixed.

Also, McLewis, there are many people who should not procreate. The world is full of weak people, and it is the duty of the strong to help carry the weak.

You've either phrased that badly or you haven't realized what is apparent; the kid experienced something "bad".

If it stood to me, I'd put energy into rehabilitating the kid and not the father.

I am just talking from experiance. Once the father goes to jail, no one will fraking take care of the kid. The government caring centers in California re the absolute worst, espicially in black neighborhoods. Of course staying with an abusive father is not a better option for the kid, but staying with a father who is getting professional help is better.

Also, humans are enduring bastards, they go through wars and stay intact. Some don't, and it is the duty of society to help them out. I simply think that society does not give a rats ass about the boy, and they would put the father in jail because it is cheaper than putting him in courses, and then they would put the son in jail if he grew up ass a thug, which statistics show is the most likely outcome for a black kid with no parents.

@Tetra, the statistic is not about race, but the fact the African Americans are generally poorer and hence it is poverty and not race that cause the statistic.

Lord Spencer wrote:

Senor Penguin wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:The thing is, this is not an isolated incident. There are many more fathers who are less severe, but still are borderline abusive. Accountability is indeed there, but if the core of the problem is not fixed it will repeat itself in different ways.

I would hate for anything bad to happen to the kid, and I see there is opportunity to fix the father if he wants to be helped.

I just feel this situation is not so bad it cannot be fixed.

Also, McLewis, there are many people who should not procreate. The world is full of weak people, and it is the duty of the strong to help carry the weak.

You've either phrased that badly or you haven't realized what is apparent; the kid experienced something "bad".

If it stood to me, I'd put energy into rehabilitating the kid and not the father.

I am just talking from experiance. Once the father goes to jail, no one will fraking take care of the kid. The government caring centers in California re the absolute worst, espicially in black neighborhoods. Of course staying with an abusive father is not a better option for the kid, but staying with a father who is getting professional help is better.

When you put it that way I can only agree.

May I add yet another critique of the American social system? It's sh*te regardless of state!

Also, humans are enduring bastards, they go through wars and stay intact. Some don't, and it is the duty of society to help them out. I simply think that society does not give a rats ass about the boy, and they would put the father in jail because it is cheaper than putting him in courses, and then they would put the son in jail if he grew up ass a thug, which statistics show is the most likely outcome for a black kid with no parents.

Did I mention the sh*tty social system in the U.S.? The prison system seems to be more lucrative than welfare. It's no wonder the incarceration rates are rising.

@Tetra, the statistic is not about race, but the fact the African Americans are generally poorer and hence it is poverty and not race that cause the statistic.

And regardless of how much this fact has been repeated, people still attack minorities based on their race/ethnic background. In Denmark it's mainly the Muslims who get to feel all the "love".

And i use to shit myself when i seen slippers come off. Poor child.