Bayern Munich are CL material now...

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:Real havent done any better in last 8 years in CL. Are they not a Top team too ?

Someone did not bother to read the whole thread through did they?

Even their striking legend thinks that they're only a top team in name. While they may have some impressive players like piggy, Robbery and Godmez, they don't seriously challenge other top teams in Europe. I'm talking about Manu,Farca , Real and maybe even Chavski. A Cl final appearance after their triumph in 2001 doesn't warrant the title of a top team in Europe.

What has Real done more that Bayern in the last 8 years ? Are Real just pretenders too .

What does that mean too Real ?

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:Real havent done any better in last 8 years in CL. Are they not a Top team too ?

Someone did not bother to read the whole thread through did they?

Even their striking legend thinks that they're only a top team in name. While they may have some impressive players like piggy, Robbery and Godmez, they don't seriously challenge other top teams in Europe. I'm talking about Manu,Farca , Real and maybe even Chavski. A Cl final appearance after their triumph in 2001 doesn't warrant the title of a top team in Europe.

What has Real done more that Bayern in the last 8 years ? Are Real just pretenders too .

What does that mean too Real ?

My lord, you need help.

READ THE WHOLE THREAD! It has been agreed upon by the OP in latter comments that Madrid are in the same position as bayern in europe.

NO ONE denied that.

Jesus, some people love selective reading.

I also don't think it's a secret that Bayern have been underspending up until like 3 years ago. I mean it's true, they haven't really done anything in a while, but that doesn't mean they can't bounce back any year, the same thing is true for Real.

Clubs with a base and spending power like Bayern or Real don't disappear.

I'd be more worried about teams like Juve, who are also in debt and currently don't have a solid base for their squad.

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:Real havent done any better in last 8 years in CL. Are they not a Top team too ?

Someone did not bother to read the whole thread through did they?

Even their striking legend thinks that they're only a top team in name. While they may have some impressive players like piggy, Robbery and Godmez, they don't seriously challenge other top teams in Europe. I'm talking about Manu,Farca , Real and maybe even Chavski. A Cl final appearance after their triumph in 2001 doesn't warrant the title of a top team in Europe.

What has Real done more that Bayern in the last 8 years ? Are Real just pretenders too .

What does that mean too Real ?

My lord, you need help.

READ THE WHOLE THREAD! It has been agreed upon by the OP in latter comments that Madrid are in the same position as bayern in europe.

NO ONE denied that.

Jesus, some people love selective reading.

Just because some top teams going through a patch in Europe doesnt mean they are pretenders . They still are very strong in their league so they are always going to bounce back sooner rather than later . Applies to both Real and Bayern and you dont need to read through the whole forum to see what OP was trying to say .

[/quote]Just because some top teams going through a patch in Europe doesnt mean they are pretenders . They still are very strong in their league so they are always going to bounce back sooner rather than later . Applies to both Real and Bayern and you dont need to read through the whole forum to see what OP was trying to say . [/quote]

This has nothing to do with domestic form though does it?

We are talking about their short-comings in europe in the last couple of years and the OP suggested that their record suggests that they are pretenders at this moment.

It was then agreed that Madrid are in the same position as Bayern and both need to replicate their form of the late 90s-early 2000s to be seen as the powerhouses they once were.

So, I don't actually see any point you have made in this thread.

Again, we are talking about european competition, not domestic form.

izzy26 wrote:
This has nothing to do with domestic form though does it?

We are talking about their short-comings in europe in the last couple of years and the OP suggested that their record suggests that they are pretenders at this moment.

It was then agreed that Madrid are in the same position as Bayern and both need to replicate their form of the late 90s-early 2000s to be seen as the powerhouses they once were.

So, I don't actually see any point you have made in this thread.

Again, we are talking about european competition, not domestic form.

So u are saying Madrid are not a power house in Europe now and are only pretenders in Europe now . I wonder why bookmakers have them as 2nd favourites to win the CL next season ?

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:
This has nothing to do with domestic form though does it?

We are talking about their short-comings in europe in the last couple of years and the OP suggested that their record suggests that they are pretenders at this moment.

It was then agreed that Madrid are in the same position as Bayern and both need to replicate their form of the late 90s-early 2000s to be seen as the powerhouses they once were.

So, I don't actually see any point you have made in this thread.

Again, we are talking about european competition, not domestic form.

So u are saying Madrid are not a power house in Europe now and are only pretenders in Europe now . I wonder why bookmakers have them as 2nd favourites to win the CL next season ?

*sigh* Yet again, i'm being forced to repeat myself.

Madrid and Bayern are not the powerhouses they used to be. Simple as that.

Beating stronger European teams and more consistency in Europe will see them returning to their old ways.

That's it. End of discussion.

P.S. Bookmakers? These same betting supernovas also had England down as one of the favourites to win the World Cup last year. Their words don't really seem that trust worthy.

Oh, ok. I guess a near triple just last season means "pretenders"

All Elber is saying is that everyone is saying: we need defenders, most notably some good CBs, plus the fact we haven't spend much in these past few years. It's actually notable we haven't imploded. I'd love to see some of those other "real teams" go without any good signings for years. Just shows the strength of the youth.

Van Gaal did his magic and hence our awful drop in form, we just had a shit season. Everyone did. As a Madrid fan I can't believe you would actually underestimate Bayern, considering history

This is ignorance, babun. I would ve agreed with you before 2010. But, they built damn pretty team. They have Robben, Schweini, Ribery, Timoschuk (if only they did not sell MVB). One of the best middlefields out there, I would take it over any team except for Barca. Attack is solid with Gomez and Muller, and Olic as a super sub. The only are that needs fixing is CBs. The reason they sucked is sale of Lucio that started to give its delayed pain, and sale of Demichelis. Boateng+some other CB, and they go till 1/4 at least.

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:
This has nothing to do with domestic form though does it?

We are talking about their short-comings in europe in the last couple of years and the OP suggested that their record suggests that they are pretenders at this moment.

It was then agreed that Madrid are in the same position as Bayern and both need to replicate their form of the late 90s-early 2000s to be seen as the powerhouses they once were.

So, I don't actually see any point you have made in this thread.

Again, we are talking about european competition, not domestic form.

So u are saying Madrid are not a power house in Europe now and are only pretenders in Europe now . I wonder why bookmakers have them as 2nd favourites to win the CL next season ?

*sigh* Yet again, i'm being forced to repeat myself.

Madrid and Bayern are not the powerhouses they used to be. Simple as that.

Beating stronger European teams and more consistency in Europe will see them returning to their old ways.

That's it. End of discussion.

P.S. Bookmakers? These same betting supernovas also had England down as one of the favourites to win the World Cup last year. Their words don't really seem that trust worthy.

If u think Madrid are not one of the favourites win CL next year then its just stupidity . No point discussing with u .

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:
This has nothing to do with domestic form though does it?

We are talking about their short-comings in europe in the last couple of years and the OP suggested that their record suggests that they are pretenders at this moment.

It was then agreed that Madrid are in the same position as Bayern and both need to replicate their form of the late 90s-early 2000s to be seen as the powerhouses they once were.

So, I don't actually see any point you have made in this thread.

Again, we are talking about european competition, not domestic form.

So u are saying Madrid are not a power house in Europe now and are only pretenders in Europe now . I wonder why bookmakers have them as 2nd favourites to win the CL next season ?

*sigh* Yet again, i'm being forced to repeat myself.

Madrid and Bayern are not the powerhouses they used to be. Simple as that.

Beating stronger European teams and more consistency in Europe will see them returning to their old ways.

That's it. End of discussion.

P.S. Bookmakers? These same betting supernovas also had England down as one of the favourites to win the World Cup last year. Their words don't really seem that trust worthy.

If u think Madrid are not one of the favourites win CL next year then its just stupidity . No point discussing with u .

Where did I say that Madrid were not one of the favourites?

I'm talking about Madrid and Bayerns lack of consistency in Europe over the years.

Every Madrid and bayern fan will admit it has been poor considering the standards each have set themselves over the years.
At the moment, all it is, is a lot of hype talk. No one is questioning Bayern and madrids domestic form, but rather their european failures. That's what is being discussed.

The talking is done on the pitch, not by bookmakers.
Madrid have those odds, not based on recent european performances, but rather their team on paper. Same with Bayern. Both sets of fans know what needs to be done to improve the squad as I have stated earlier with Bayern and Madrid.

Madrid and Bayern always go in as favourites because of their history and teams on paper, but both have under-achieved in Europe. Do those odds instantly make us the powerhouses we were before?

NO.

And you calling me stupid:?

All of your posts in this thread really make your claim sound very ironic,

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:
This has nothing to do with domestic form though does it?

We are talking about their short-comings in europe in the last couple of years and the OP suggested that their record suggests that they are pretenders at this moment.

It was then agreed that Madrid are in the same position as Bayern and both need to replicate their form of the late 90s-early 2000s to be seen as the powerhouses they once were.

So, I don't actually see any point you have made in this thread.

Again, we are talking about european competition, not domestic form.

So u are saying Madrid are not a power house in Europe now and are only pretenders in Europe now . I wonder why bookmakers have them as 2nd favourites to win the CL next season ?

*sigh* Yet again, i'm being forced to repeat myself.

Madrid and Bayern are not the powerhouses they used to be. Simple as that.

Beating stronger European teams and more consistency in Europe will see them returning to their old ways.

That's it. End of discussion.

P.S. Bookmakers? These same betting supernovas also had England down as one of the favourites to win the World Cup last year. Their words don't really seem that trust worthy.

If u think Madrid are not one of the favourites win CL next year then its just stupidity . No point discussing with u .

Where did I say that Madrid were not one of the favourites?

I'm talking about Madrid and Bayerns lack of consistency in Europe over the years.

Every Madrid and bayern fan will admit it has been poor considering the standards each have set themselves over the years.
At the moment, all it is, is a lot of hype talk. No one is questioning Bayern and madrids domestic form, but rather their european failures. That's what is being discussed.

The talking is done on the pitch, not by bookmakers.
Madrid have those odds, not based on recent european performances, but rather their team on paper. Same with Bayern. Both sets of fans know what needs to be done to improve the squad as I have stated earlier with Bayern and Madrid.

Madrid and Bayern always go in as favourites because of their history and teams on paper, but both have under-achieved in Europe. Do those odds instantly make us the powerhouses we were before?

NO.

And you calling me stupid:?

All of your posts in this thread really make your claim sound very ironic,

Real go into next year's CL as one of the big favourites because they reached Semi's last year and lost to eventual champions narrowly . Also because they have a manager who won CL 2 times . They arent going into the next year's tournament because of history .

P.S.

I didnt call u stupid . I said suggesting Real are not one of favourites for next year's CL is stupidity .

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

izzy26 wrote:
This has nothing to do with domestic form though does it?

We are talking about their short-comings in europe in the last couple of years and the OP suggested that their record suggests that they are pretenders at this moment.

It was then agreed that Madrid are in the same position as Bayern and both need to replicate their form of the late 90s-early 2000s to be seen as the powerhouses they once were.

So, I don't actually see any point you have made in this thread.

Again, we are talking about european competition, not domestic form.

So u are saying Madrid are not a power house in Europe now and are only pretenders in Europe now . I wonder why bookmakers have them as 2nd favourites to win the CL next season ?

*sigh* Yet again, i'm being forced to repeat myself.

Madrid and Bayern are not the powerhouses they used to be. Simple as that.

Beating stronger European teams and more consistency in Europe will see them returning to their old ways.

That's it. End of discussion.

P.S. Bookmakers? These same betting supernovas also had England down as one of the favourites to win the World Cup last year. Their words don't really seem that trust worthy.

If u think Madrid are not one of the favourites win CL next year then its just stupidity . No point discussing with u .

Where did I say that Madrid were not one of the favourites?

I'm talking about Madrid and Bayerns lack of consistency in Europe over the years.

Every Madrid and bayern fan will admit it has been poor considering the standards each have set themselves over the years.
At the moment, all it is, is a lot of hype talk. No one is questioning Bayern and madrids domestic form, but rather their european failures. That's what is being discussed.

The talking is done on the pitch, not by bookmakers.
Madrid have those odds, not based on recent european performances, but rather their team on paper. Same with Bayern. Both sets of fans know what needs to be done to improve the squad as I have stated earlier with Bayern and Madrid.

Madrid and Bayern always go in as favourites because of their history and teams on paper, but both have under-achieved in Europe. Do those odds instantly make us the powerhouses we were before?

NO.

And you calling me stupid:?

All of your posts in this thread really make your claim sound very ironic,

Real go into next year's CL as one of the big favourites because they reached Semi's last year and lost to eventual champions narrowly . Also because they have a manager who won CL 2 times . They arent going into the next year's tournament because of history .

P.S.

I didnt call u stupid . I said suggesting Real are not one of favourites for next year's CL is stupidity .

But that's not the point of the thread.

Dear lord, it's not about being favourites.

It's about returning to the era of dominance Madrid and bayern enjoyed in the late 90s-early 2000s.

Favourites doesnot equal powerhouse. How are you not getting that?

Can someone else explain this to him please?

It is really simple logic.

Sushi Master wrote:Oh, ok. I guess a near triple just last season means "pretenders"

All Elber is saying is that everyone is saying: we need defenders, most notably some good CBs, plus the fact we haven't spend much in these past few years. It's actually notable we haven't imploded. I'd love to see some of those other "real teams" go without any good signings for years. Just shows the strength of the youth.

Van Gaal did his magic and hence our awful drop in form, we just had a shit season. Everyone did. As a Madrid fan I can't believe you would actually underestimate Bayern, considering history

I lol'd so hard.

...I guess a total loss in the market of upwards of €80 million since the 2009 summer window isn't spending much.

Backspacer wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:Oh, ok. I guess a near triple just last season means "pretenders"

All Elber is saying is that everyone is saying: we need defenders, most notably some good CBs, plus the fact we haven't spend much in these past few years. It's actually notable we haven't imploded. I'd love to see some of those other "real teams" go without any good signings for years. Just shows the strength of the youth.

Van Gaal did his magic and hence our awful drop in form, we just had a shit season. Everyone did. As a Madrid fan I can't believe you would actually underestimate Bayern, considering history

I lol'd so hard.

...I guess a total loss in the market of upwards of €80 million since the 2009 summer window isn't spending much.

IN:
Godlic = FREE
Godmez = 30m
Tymo = 14m
Pranjic = 7m
Braafheid = 2.5m

OUT:
Godolski 10m

Which brings a -43m total, more or less. That's like only Villa's signing or the left testicle of Cristiano. Compared to the other big sides it's pocket change. We haven't spent big since the Ribery, Toni, Klose signings which put us back 50m or so. Sure, we're spending now because we frakking have to in order to be competitive. In any case, 18+ for Neuer, 5.5m for Rafinha and 15m for Gustavo isn't anything record breaking. You can say we've spent, but spent wisely and even then it's only a fraction of what other big guns are spending.

babun1024 wrote:http://www.goal.com/en/news/725/bundesliga/2011/06/11/2527677/bayern-munich-are-still-not-ready-to-compete-with-barcelona

Even their striking legend thinks that they're only a top team in name. While they may have some impressive players like piggy, Robbery and Godmez, they don't seriously challenge other top teams in Europe. I'm talking about Manu,Farca , Real and maybe even Chavski. A Cl final appearance after their triumph in 2001 doesn't warrant the title of a top team in Europe. I'd say Arsenal were more of a consistent team even though they didn't win the cup :lol!:

Common, that´s a little bit harsh of you...

i think Elber just says that because he loves Bayern, and he is afraid that Uli Hoeness always goes the cheap way of signing new Players

I think the Fact is.... we need quality defensive Players AND quality backup solutions if Uli is really willing to win it at home

Than i would say...... if you ignore bayern next year u will be surprised

Sushi Master wrote:

Backspacer wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:Oh, ok. I guess a near triple just last season means "pretenders"

All Elber is saying is that everyone is saying: we need defenders, most notably some good CBs, plus the fact we haven't spend much in these past few years. It's actually notable we haven't imploded. I'd love to see some of those other "real teams" go without any good signings for years. Just shows the strength of the youth.

Van Gaal did his magic and hence our awful drop in form, we just had a shit season. Everyone did. As a Madrid fan I can't believe you would actually underestimate Bayern, considering history

I lol'd so hard.

...I guess a total loss in the market of upwards of €80 million since the 2009 summer window isn't spending much.

IN: OUT:
Godlic = FREE Godolski = 10m
Godmez = 30m Lucio = Undisclosed
Tymo = 14m
Pranjic = 7m
Braafheid = 2.5m

Which brings a -43m total, more or less. That's like only Villa's signing or the left testicle of Cristiano. Compared to the other big sides it's pocket change. We haven't spent big since the Ribery, Toni, Klose signings which put us back 50m or so. Sure, we're spending now because we frakking have to in order to be competitive. In any case, 18+ for Neuer, 5.5m for Rafinha and 15m for Gustavo isn't anything record breaking. You can say we've spent, but spent wisely and even then it's only a fraction of what other big guns are spending.

I'm pretty sure Godmez was 40m plus you forgot Robben. Lucio left for 3 or 4m I believe. Realistically we need 2 new CB's to be able to compete in Europe this season. If we continue to go with van Buyten, Breno and Badstuber we wont go very far. So ideally our team would look like this:

Neuer
Rafinha-Boateng(12.5-20m)-Mertesacker(10-15m?)-Lahm
Schweinsteiger-Tymoschuk
Robben-Muller-Ribery
Gomez

with this team I figure we could go deep in the CL but who knows?

Here's a link if you want the full balance sheet:

http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/fc-bayern-muenchen/transfers-alle/verein_27.html

As I said, upwards of 80 million euros since the '09 summer window.

I don't care that Bayern spend a lot of money, but to say that they "haven't spent much" to the point where it's "actually notable we haven't imploded" is ridiculously inaccurate, especially in our league where spending is a far cry from the money put up by clubs in the other top leagues.

Oh, if you mean in the Bundesliga then of course Bayern spend. The only ones that can afford to, really.

I'm not comparing Bayern to other Buli clubs, though. I'm comparing them to the other supposed "CL ready clubs" such as Madrid, Barca, Inter and co. who every season spend a lot of money and expect performances, while Bayern can go without spending too much and still somewhat perform. They've reached their critical point and HAVE to spend now to keep up... but they know how to spend without it being silly!

bayern are still a top team and deserve to be called a footballing powerhouse in europe

Bayern don't need any CBs. Who needs defence when you have Duke Neukem?!

Hail To The King Baby

milanista99 wrote:Bayern don't need any CBs. Who needs defence when you have Duke Neukem?!

Hail To The King Baby

Good one

But we cannot expect from the "Duke" to be in GodMode every damn Game

Oh I gotcha, my fault for the misunderstanding.

Lol. If being able to compete vs Barca is the definition of a top team then how many top teams are there? Not Chelsea, not United, not Arsenal, not Milan, not Bayern, etc. And yet, most of us would say those are top teams, so something is terribly off

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Lol. If being able to compete vs Barca is the definition of a top team then how many top teams are there? Not Chelsea, not United, not Arsenal, not Milan, not Bayern, etc. And yet, most of us would say those are top teams, so something is terribly off

A Barca fanboy came around... What's up with the cheesy nickname
On topic, I meant European elite, not Farca only, care to read first before posting

Idrisozet wrote:

It's a testament that we were an ABSOLUTE TOP TEAM at the time They still brag about it (irony) :lol!: