Re: The definitive "Wenger in/out" thread

[Sri]

I agree with your justifications Jay. No arguments about what you are pointing at.

[Raptorgunner]

A sobering stat. If 70 points is the average to get to 4th place, then we have to win 11/15 games. No room for error now. Our true ascension or fall begins tomorrow.

Sagna is back anything is possible, I am going with 12/15. :dance:

[MJ]

A sobering stat. If 70 points is the average to get to 4th place, then we have to win 11/15 games. No room for error now. Our true ascension or fall begins tomorrow.

Sagna is back anything is possible, I am going with 12/15.

We play Spuds, City and Chelsea at home. Pool away. Those are the only matches I'm concerned about losing. The rest, I'm just normal concerned.

[mani88]

A sobering stat. If 70 points is the average to get to 4th place, then we have to win 11/15 games. No room for error now. Our true ascension or fall begins tomorrow.

Sagna is back anything is possible, I am going with 12/15.

We play Spuds, City and Chelsea at home. Pool away. Those are the only matches I'm concerned about losing. The rest, I'm just normal concerned.

The Arsenal way would be to win spuds, chelsea, city and pool but then loose to Westbrom, Wolves and Wigan

[Raptorgunner]

A sobering stat. If 70 points is the average to get to 4th place, then we have to win 11/15 games. No room for error now. Our true ascension or fall begins tomorrow.

Sagna is back anything is possible, I am going with 12/15.

We play Spuds, City and Chelsea at home. Pool away. Those are the only matches I'm concerned about losing. The rest, I'm just normal concerned.

The Arsenal way would be to win spuds, chelsea, city and pool but then loose to Westbrom, Wolves and Wigan

The ass whooping will start on Saturday and will not end, if Wlacott never starts again.

[6unner]

Imagine if we had 2 of Fabregas or 2 of RvP - you can only play one and the other has to be benched - depending on form or rotation factors.

Apart from injuries, our other big problem was holding on to our stars when these 'stars' were homesick (Cesc, Reyes) or wanted to move to another club for more money (mercenaries). Either of these cases can't be pinned on Wenger alone.

I have heard many people make these dame statements. What if we had 2 RVP or Cesc and can only play 1 at a time. Or what about people that get homesick like Cesc. Mercenaries etc.

I actually think the answer to this is not as hard to figure out as people think. Cesc went to Barcca did he think that there was any chance of starting and playing every game? Nasari wen't to hell, but did he think that he was going to be starting every game? Henry went to Barrca and if we would have given him any amount of money would he have stayed?
Many others have left to go here or there with the offer of big wages.

Well I actually think the way to cure this is to actually win something. Do I think that either Ade or Nasari would have gone to Bolton if they had offered them the same money as city. Not a chance! They both wen't as much for the money as they did a thought that they were going to a team that was actually going to compete for titles. We all knew that Cesc wanted to end his career at Barca. Well you think he would have been in such a hurry to leave if we had won the EPL or CL in the last couple of years.

I actually do not think that we would have lost any of these people if we had been winning and top of the league. For some of them I think that if we had at least show the ambition of trying to win the league or CL it would have bought us more time with them.

It has been reported that Henery went to Barca when he did because he knew that the youth program was going to take time that he did not necessarily have. He wanted to compete for more honors while we was still playing at his best. Nasari, said at the beginning of the summer he was going to wait to see our ambition before looking at a new contract.

Now if anyone can actually sit back and say that they thought any of our moves this past summer actually showed ambition of wanting to win!

If we want to keep our best players and bring in more?
1. Yes we need to pay them a wage comparable to that at any of the other teams at the top.
2. You also need to win or show the ambition of winning.

We have failed at both of these. We pay average players too much money and do not pay our stars enough. When the stars leave we gamble and try to rely on unproven youth or average players. We do not seem to have the ambition to win. We seem to have the ambition to prove a point and it has failed.

[DuringTheWar]

This season is a bit of an annomaly tbh. Your best player ditches you (fabregas), and then suddenly his replacement is out for the season (wilshere), and your major signing is one for the future not the present (chamberlain)

I will wait for next season to see how wenger does. We do have a great amount of potential with some of our youngsters it has to be said, and so i wouldnt put it past wenger to turn it around

[El Gunner]

I juz knew we were gonna struggle this season. I said it right after Cesc went to Barca.

Lack of creativity and failure to convert chances has been our main downfall this season.

[SamuelJayC]

He has won 4 FA cups Jay. 98 02 03 05

[SamuelJayC]

Well, this season could still very much be a successful season. 4th and the FA cup would be, let's face it, an amazing season.

But, what I, and many other fans, would like to know is, IS the money there? Is there money available?

Or are the "significant" funds Gazidis goes on about not there?

I believe the money IS there. Or else why would Wenger say things like "I will spend 30, even 40 million on a player, if i find the right player".

On to Wenger's reign - best manager in our history hands down - but you can't ignore recent seasons. I have never said we should sack him mid-season, that would achieve little.

But yes, in the summer, I don't think it would be stupid to look at alternative options. Klopp the stand out.

[Emaharg]

I want him out call me anything you want but he is ignorant, he won't change which is the worst thing. Yes he has done very well for the club but he is not any more he is holding us back now in my opinion.
He is blinded by his own arrogance therefore he has to leave, sure I expect players and staff to follow him out but I would rather this football club be given a chance to succeed than be stuck on a downward spiral.

[Wilson37]

I support Arsenal because i find many things unique about this club and management... So i dont want it to change.. In simple words.. it means Wenger forever..
Of course i also desire to win trophies.. But it is not the first priority for me..
And if football is only about winning trophies, will any of the smaller teams or so called selling clubs have fans ?

[Jay29]

Of course football isn't all about trophies but if you have the means to win them then you should be trying to win them. You can't just sit there and say "we don't care". Fans won't and shouldn't except that.

[Wilson37]

I have never seen any player or manager showing disrespect to Wenger.. But he gets it from his own so called loyal Arsenal fans... He doesnt deserve it.. If it was some1 else he would have thrown it and left the club.. But his ultimost loyalty and character will not make him do that.. He accepts every reaction and he will never complain about it too.. So u think his is stubborn and doesnt care about the club ?

[Jay29]

I think he's stubborn, but no where have I said he doesn't care about the club because it's a stupid assumption to make.

[Wilson37]

And about signing established experienced players.. Wasnt Metskr one of that category.. Fans considered him as the best signing in recent years.. And now ? Anyone here who thought he would perform like this...
And those mediocre signings Arteta and Santos ? Its them who had some success..
So remember even established players can fail.. Admit that Wenger knows better.. And this is not fantasy football to buy the best players.. And please understand the situation of our club.. Be practical.. We cant sign Hazard for 20 million when Chelsea is ready to sign him for 40 million offering double amount of wages.. And if a big signing fails it will not be like Denilson or Chamakh failing.. Could we have withstanded some1 like Andy Caroll.. And would an Arsenal fan accept performances of Suarez for £25 million..?
So i feel that Wengers cautious approach in transfers has more advantages than disadvantages... And do u think if we cash in our entire budget on some world class player, can we win the league ? And what if he gets injured or the move doesnt pay off..

[Emaharg]

Transfers for me come down to risk vs reward, as we are never prepared to take a large risk we never see the rewards. We could of signed someone in past January transfer windows when Vermaelen was out for the season, Almunia and Flappy making numerous mistakes, Arshavin playing CF. Who knows if we spent 20mil one of those three January windows we could of won a title but we will never know because it's too much of a risk that the club is not willing to take.

[Sri]

And about signing established experienced players.. Wasnt Metskr one of that category.. Fans considered him as the best signing in recent years.. And now ? Anyone here who thought he would perform like this...

While I agree with the views in most of your post, what I JUST DON'T GET is, whats you tiff with Per? Y U NO APPRECIATE HIM!!

[MJ]

And about signing established experienced players.. Wasnt Metskr one of that category.. Fans considered him as the best signing in recent years.. And now ? Anyone here who thought he would perform like this...

He was shaky at first like he and Wenger said he would be, but now I can't think of anything he's done wrong. He just played a great game even if it was against Blackburn and he's been cheated out of quite a few goals this season.

[Wilson37]

And about signing established experienced players.. Wasnt Metskr one of that category.. Fans considered him as the best signing in recent years.. And now ? Anyone here who thought he would perform like this...

While I agree with the views in most of your post, what I JUST DON'T GET is, whats you tiff with Per? Y U NO APPRECIATE HIM!!

right mate.. He impresses me the least in our team.. I feel that he lacks confidence, he is slow and physically weak to be a Premier League cb, technically not good enough for the Arsenal game, wastes possession and no use upfront too..
Only positives i see are some fullstretch interceptions..
I agree that he has improved a lot since his first few months.. Hope he turns out to be a great defender.. But right now i want verminator-kos combination once the lb issue solves...

[Sri]

right mate.. He impresses me the least in our team.. I feel that he lacks confidence, he is slow and physically weak to be a Premier League cb, technically not good enough for the Arsenal game, wastes possession and no use upfront too..
Only positives i see are some fullstretch interceptions..
I agree that he has improved a lot since his first few months.. Hope he turns out to be a great defender.. But right now i want verminator-kos combination once the lb issue solves...

Hmm.. Okay, you have your PoV, I have mine.. But if you want to wait for Verm-Kos, then its going to be a looonnngg wait with Gibbs being Diaby 2.0 and Santos injured, unless we bench Per to play Miquel there.. Or Sagna, like in the last match.. :lol!:

[Jay29]

And about signing established experienced players.. Wasnt Metskr one of that category.. Fans considered him as the best signing in recent years.. And now ? Anyone here who thought he would perform like this...
And those mediocre signings Arteta and Santos ? Its them who had some success..
So remember even established players can fail.. Admit that Wenger knows better.. And this is not fantasy football to buy the best players.. And please understand the situation of our club.. Be practical.. We cant sign Hazard for 20 million when Chelsea is ready to sign him for 40 million offering double amount of wages.. And if a big signing fails it will not be like Denilson or Chamakh failing.. Could we have withstanded some1 like Andy Caroll.. And would an Arsenal fan accept performances of Suarez for £25 million..?
So i feel that Wengers cautious approach in transfers has more advantages than disadvantages... And do u think if we cash in our entire budget on some world class player, can we win the league ? And what if he gets injured or the move doesnt pay off..

I'm not saying we should splash out wildly on some supposed world class talent. I don't know why people jump to this conclusion when people say we should spend a bit more.

What I meant by going the extra mile is spending just that little bit extra, because we've let talents go in the past because we did not want to spend just that little bit more. Juan Mata in the summer, for example, and Cristiano Ronaldo and Frank Ribery in the past.

Then think about how we splashed out nearly £15mil on Oxlade-Chamberlain. Obviously he's proving to be a really good talent but it was a risky transfer at that price.

You can't always be cautious in the market. Sometimes you need to take risks to really enhance your squad and get to a higher level, especially after you lose talents of that calibre like Fabregas who, unfortunately, you can't always replace with a young talent or some £10mil player.

[MJ]

You can't always be cautious in the market. Sometimes you need to take risks to really enhance your squad and get to a higher level, especially after you lose talents of that calibre like Fabregas who, unfortunately, you can't always replace with a young talent or some £10mil player.

"Cos I'm like you in a way i
don't like losing money either, but you gotta speculate to become
a market leader." -Stan

But right now i want verminator-kos combination
once the lb issue solves...

We need Mertesacker because of how dominant he is in the air (usually). We can't have two CBs who occasionally carry the ball forward and aren't as physical or tall as Per.

[SamuelJayC]

Wenger: "You should know that each season, it's imperative to show a profit of between 15 and 20 million pounds." http://bit.ly/AEjytV

[Jay29]

Interesting quotes, but lacking in context. When did Wenger say this? It seems a bit random to suddenly start talking about the need to make profits every year and about Hazard when the window is closed and we just won 7-1...

[Twoism]

And about signing established experienced players.. Wasnt Metskr one of that category.. Fans considered him as the best signing in recent years.. And now ? Anyone here who thought he would perform like this...
And those mediocre signings Arteta and Santos ? Its them who had some success..
So remember even established players can fail.. Admit that Wenger knows better.. And this is not fantasy football to buy the best players.. And please understand the situation of our club.. Be practical.. We cant sign Hazard for 20 million when Chelsea is ready to sign him for 40 million offering double amount of wages.. And if a big signing fails it will not be like Denilson or Chamakh failing.. Could we have withstanded some1 like Andy Caroll.. And would an Arsenal fan accept performances of Suarez for £25 million..?
So i feel that Wengers cautious approach in transfers has more advantages than disadvantages... And do u think if we cash in our entire budget on some world class player, can we win the league ? And what if he gets injured or the move doesnt pay off..

I'm not saying we should splash out wildly on some supposed world class talent. I don't know why people jump to this conclusion when people say we should spend a bit more.

What I meant by going the extra mile is spending just that little bit extra, because we've let talents go in the past because we did not want to spend just that little bit more. Juan Mata in the summer, for example, and Cristiano Ronaldo and Frank Ribery in the past.

Then think about how we splashed out nearly £15mil on Oxlade-Chamberlain. Obviously he's proving to be a really good talent but it was a risky transfer at that price.

You can't always be cautious in the market. Sometimes you need to take risks to really enhance your squad and get to a higher level, especially after you lose talents of that calibre like Fabregas who, unfortunately, you can't always replace with a young talent or some £10mil player.

Ox is risky business so whoever said our transfer is low risk, no reward previously couldn't be more wrong, I would say it's paid off so far. Mata is much safer bet. Wenger can spend and he did but unfortunately his targets were never world class ones bar this summer signings (more panic than anything, also arguably world class), he just does not see the value of players as we fans do.

Last summer, we broke the bank for Ox and nearly got Jones with 16 millions offer, that 16 plus a bit more could/should go for Mata. Wenger broke bank lots of time before for youngster he seen worth it, like Edu, Reyes, Walcott. He did it one for WC player Arshavin and the pay off so far probably put him off for good.

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