its time for a change

I think if you organize insert a couple words here and there, Arsenal on a whole could take a bit away from it.

RealGunner wrote:Unless klopp comes out and say he will be interested in the job, there is no point in wenger going.

You would take Kloppe over Wenger?

I will take Klopp once wenger retires/goes(resigns). Sacking wenger is not an option.

It would be quite surreal if Arsenal sacked him.

They would have to pay him a few million compensation for terminating his contract, then they could potentially have to pay a large fee to get a replacement manager from another club.

Again money which could of been spent bringing new players in.

Unless Rafa is still a free agent.

Patrick Bateman wrote:The solution to Arsenal's problem is simple,SPEND,Wenger needs to stop being such a miser..

True, that, or find a way to keep his players.

However, I have to admit I admire Arsenal fans' devotion to their manager. Just goes to show they're real fans who support their man no matter what. I know it goes down to Wenger being a big name in your club's history, but most of the fans of other teams would already be screaming "SACK HIM"!

If only he chose to alter his pont of view on spending, although a man in his 60' is probably not going to change his opinions now

I just can't see Arsenal sacking Wneger. For good or bad, he's come to be almost synonymous with the club in recent years. Arsene's personality and style has been firmly entrenched within Arsenal as a club. This is what no one wants to talk about. The club is steeped in Arsene's style. Change in management and playing style would have consequences reaching beyond the managerial position. A coaching change is always expensive, as the new coach attempts to tailor the squad to his playing style. In Arsenal's case, it could be more than they are willing to spend.

Another problem is that many critics of Wenger seem to think that a change will have an uplifting effect on the players who are currently at the club. In truth, the opposite often happens. This is especially true at the highest level of the Premier League. Take the recent examples of Liverpool and Chelsea. A coaching transition might affect some supporters' attitudes, as the "change for change's sake" approach is often targeted toward appeasing popular outcry. However, in reality, the change could put off star players, resulting in a high profile exodus. At this point in time, Arsenal's success largely rests in the hands of 3 players (2 of which have played a part in this season). Should Van Persie, Vermaelen or Wilshere leave the club without a top-class replacement, then Arsenal could be set for a season no better than this one. Moreover, for a coach to have any real impact on the squad will take a season or two. With the unrest surrounding this season, it is hard to imagine Arsenal being willing to endure another few seasons of the same. Especially if they do miss out on Champions League football.

Personally, I cannot decide if this season is a one-off result due in large part to recent exits and a lack of available, top-class replacements, or if it is the signs of a declining (or at least complacent) managerial staff. I think if Arsenal makes a change, they would certainly be justified. However, it may not the instant transformative effect that many are calling for. If they make a change after missing out on the Champion's League, it is possible Arsenal could experience several seasons similar to the spell that Liverpool have recently endured.

Let's be fair. Wenger hasn't really had all the cards going for him in the recent past.

His star players leaving is a sign of Arsenal's pulling power reducing. The club is not rated as trophy competing material anymore and when your star players leave - you have to understand it's down to thinking you cannot bring the title to them. I think that players who left lost faith in Wenger. That and the possibility of winning trophies in another team, plus the sallary increase.

However, I have to say that sometimes you have to listen to your heart in football. If Fabregas, Nasri, Adebayor, Toure, Cole and Henry all stayed, imagine the team.

What Arsenal lacked for some time now is experience, and it shows every time they struggle. They don't know how to come on top of it.

It's an imperative to have a good mix of youth and experience in your squad - and Wenger doesn't have that. And no matter how many great young players they produce (which is amazing how they do it) it will not win you titles. Period.

It's amazing how every time a star player leaves there is someone younger waiting to take his spot. That is a good indicator of how good development team Arsenal have, but that shouldn't go to waste, keeping your players is an imperative - without it, I don't expect much to change in Arsenal.

Well said Aensensen

Arsenal's youth have been able to perform at a level which no other Premier League club has been able to replicate. Combine that with Arsene's eye for young talent, and you have the makings of an incredible developmental system. That's never been the criticism of Wenger's Arsenal teams. The criticism has been his ability to see the weaknesses of his squad and fill them in the transfer market. His weakness is precisely what he is often praised for: his youth development. Look at this season. The argument could be made that he eschewed purchasing proven talent to provide opportunities for young stars to get playing time.

Loss: Fabregas
Purchased Replacement(s): Arteta (29), Benayoun (31)
In-squad Replacement (experienced): Rosicky (31)
In-squad Replacement (youth): Ramsey (21), Wilshere (20)

Loss: Nasri
Purchased Replacement(s): none
In-squad Replacement (experienced): Gervinho (24 ), Arshavin (30),
In-squad Replacement (youth): Walcott (22), Oxlade-Chamberlain (18)

Nasri’s situation is a little ambiguous, because it’s hard to know if Ox and Gervinho were purchased in anticipation of Nasri’s departure. However, for the purposes of this argument, those details are really academic. What is obvious is that the replacements, when purchased, have not been of the quality to immediate replace the production of the player that just left. Arteta is a good player, but he is not a signing that will left the club or cement the position in the long term. It could be argued that Wenger didn’t want someone new to compete for the long-term. He wanted someone to warm Jack Wilshere and Aaron Ramsey’s seat while they develop (or rehabilitate). Msot likely, he saw Rosicky, Benayoun and Arteta as a replacement by committee that could fill the spot while Ramsey and Wilshere grew/regained fitness. (I’m assuming that Song/Frimpong are seen as playing a different role, and that transition is already penciled in for the next few seasons.)

The same could be said for Nasri. Wenger might have eschewed the transfer market, because he saw Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain as the heir apparent to the wing position (opposite of Gervinho). This is also a potential explanation of the retention of Arshavin (for the time being).

In the short-term (which has preoccupied Arsenal supporters this season), this has not yielded the quality and consistency that Arsenal are aspiring to. I would contest that this is due to the quality lost more than the failure of the system to replace them. Injuries to Wilshere and defenders have also hurt Arsenal’s campaign this season. In the long-term, however, this could prove in Arsenal’s benefit. Should Wilshere, Walcott, Ramsey and Oxlade-Chamberlain all come good on their potential, Arsenal will have the basis of a strong midfield and attack for the better part of a decade. This is part of what make’s any debate on Wenger’s job rather difficult. The potential is there, but the cinsistency of individual performances has not been there this season. Arsenal’s performances under Wenger have been remarkably consistent. Barring this season (which still has the possibility of being a one-off result), Arsenal’s consistency over the past few seasons is behind only Manchester United (and perhaps Chelsea). At this point, for Arsenal to retain Wenger is tantamount to a gamble on the quality of the youth players in the squad. However, to rid themselves of Wenger would be risking this consistency and inviting several seasons of rebuilding.

I really agree that Wenger should go.

What about turning Wenger into head of Arsenal youth teams and scouting/signing of youth department? But give him no power whatsoever in signing players over 21 and in sells?

I feel that some Arsenal fans are contradicting themselves with the "spending big" though. Most of them were satisfied with these summer purchases (Gervinho, AOC, Mertersacker, Arteta).

I think Wenger's main problem has not been the purchases but not to keep some talents and especially that he is inept at keeping his squad reasonably healthy. His main problem. Also, he has become cueless tactically. His setup vs. Milan was pathetic. Reminded me so much of the Tardofrankism at Barça (late Rijkaard's).

Also, Arsenal should change their focus in signing 16-19 year old players, to signings 21-23 year olds. They are more expensive, but you can assess better how good they are/will be, and they are almost ready to deliver, while still having a long career.

free_cat wrote:I think Wenger's main problem has not been the purchases but not to keep some talents

Coming from a Barcelona fan, i find this monumentally patronizing and insulting

Lex wrote:

free_cat wrote:I think Wenger's main problem has not been the purchases but not to keep some talents

Coming from a Barcelona fan, i find this monumentally patronizing and insulting

I don't see why. I'm just trying to give some good ideas for your club, a club that I have simpathy.

And if you are refereing to the Cesc saga, another time just don't steal a player from our youth Club. You got a fair price from him and many years of service, you can't complain of anything.

You made a great piece of business selling us an injured and almost finished Henry and an overated and mentally retarded Hleb. Instead of finding my comments insulting, you should go and submit a petition for changing your stadium's name to Barça Emirates.

"Sorry we robbed your flat, but your landlord should have installed better locks" is free_cats logic. Incredibly patronizing. Why should i not bring up Cesc? Is he not one of the talents you talk about not being able to keep thanks to Barcelona's sleazy ways?

And wasn't Henry Barcelona's top scorer his second season in? Almost finished indeed

Lex wrote:"Sorry we robbed your flat, but your landlord should have installed better locks" is free_cats logic. Incredibly patronizing. Why should i not bring up Cesc? Is he not one of the talents you talk about not being able to keep thanks to Barcelona's sleazy ways?

And wasn't Henry Barcelona's top scorer his second season in? Almost finished indeed

No, that's your logic. It's you that stole Cesc trying to pay nothing and were, as a result, sentenced by a Court. Us, we paid a fair price to Arsenal. Barcelona wasn't sleazy at all, we wanted a player, the player wanted to come, and we paid a fair price. Find something better to complain, fan of a thieve club.

Henry was not our top goalscorer, but yes, he had a very good 30 matches in the season 2008/09 for which we paid 28 milion euros. I say that was a terrific sale from Arsenal, so stop complaining too.

When saying the "talents" thing i was thinking more about evitable departures like Toure, Nasri and Clichy, who would have stayed with a pay rise. But Arsenal is too cheap (or Wenger, doesn't matter).

The Cesc saga was unfortunate, but it had been coming for several windows. Cesc had informed the management he wanted to leave, but was convinced to stay on for another stint then another. The dip that Arsenal are experiencing from his loss is COMPLETELY their own fault. They had the time and the funds to find his replacement. They did not have to settle for Arteta and Benayoun on loan. I rated Arteta highly at Everton, but he is not of the same caliber as Cesc. He is a stopgap. Complaining about Man City "poaching" Nasri is far more valid. That deal began late in this window (and was potentially motivated more by contract than overall unrest).

I apologize if I've offended anyone, but I'm becoming tired of hearing arsenal fans complain of Barca "stealing" Cesc. The man was unhappy at Arsenal. He left to go to his "home" club. The extent to which some barca players took the incident was distasteful, but the transfer itself was not only expected, it had an air of inevitability to it. Moreover, the club utterly failed to plan for his departure. In that respect, the Cesc saga may actually be relavent to this thread. If Wenger had made advanced arrangements for a Ces-less Arsenal, they'd probably be sitting comfortably in 4th, perhaps even challenging to be the best club in London.