No big spending in summer

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No big spending in summer

Post by Art Morte on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:01 pm

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2012/03/02/2941223/comolli-insists-liverpool-will-not-spend-big-this-summer

Liverpool director of football Damien Comolli has revealed that Kenny Dalglish will not have a huge budget to work with in the summer.

"We signed nine players since Kenny came back so there will be a few adjustments but nothing massive."

To my memory, when Comolli has said something, he's been saying it pretty accurately the way it is. Or has turned out to be.

And that's what I'd expect, anyway. We had time and money to take our pick last summer, so I for one was not and am not expecting anything "massive" to happen this summer. What I'd really like is a couple of smart deals where there are opportunities, but that's it. I don't like Liverpool FC wasting money. Say, if we could get someone like Junior Hoilett on a free - although on big wages - I'd be really really happy.

I know some of you have been hoping for a big buy in the striker or midfield department, but I'm satisfied to hear that no such episode seems to be in sight.
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by RedOranje on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:09 pm

Surely you can A) find a better source, B) remember his very recent comments about big name players being interested, and C) empathise with some (most) fans' wishes to quick improvement to get the club back toward the top (which will, in the current footballing climate, require spending).

There's plenty of opportunity to sign key players, and players both better and more reliable than Hoilett, without "spending big".

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Art Morte on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:22 pm

a) When they're directly quoting him, I'd still like to trust goal.com.

b) Actually I don't. We could be interested, though, just not to the point of spending big bucks on such players.

c) Quick fix, that's just something I don't personally agree with.
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by RedOranje on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:39 pm

Quick fix? Spending a on players like Javi Martinez (purely as an example) is a quick fix?

Goal has already been called out in the General Section several times in the last couple of weeks for creative quotations and translations. It's hardly a new thing for news outlets to craft quotes into a story. Besides, he spoke of the spending relative to last summer, which leaves some leeway in terms of what "massive" is.

Hoilett looks a good prospect, but he's not the type of player that would take the club to the next level. He's currently being rated largely on potential, is completely unproven in Europe, and has not yet proven he can consistently put in high level performances... is he worth a punt on what is basically a free? Absolutely. Is the the type of player that would improve the side enough to make CL qualification any more likely than this season... less likely even, assuming the other sides strengthen (Podolski to Arsenal, for instance). Look, I'm not advocating spending like Madrid or City, but a free signing of a U-22 that's performed for one season or so at a club that's fighting relegation is not the type of business a club that wants consistent CL and trophies needs to be making.

There's two extremes here... many want one, you seem to be leaning far toward the other when the answer is, IMO, in the middle somewhere.

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Art Morte on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:50 pm

When you spend big one year and set about to spend big the following year as well, that's quick fix to me.

Last year we bought Suarez and Carroll for huge monies, plus Bellamy, so to look for expensive strikers this year would count as quick fix in my book.

Last year we also brought in Adam, Henderson and Downing as MF players, so shopping big for some more midfielders is, again, a quick fix to me. "The previous bunch didn't work out, let's try some other guys".

Sure Hoilett is unproven, but he is probably available for free in the summer, getting him would be good business. Arsenal bought Oxlade-Chamberlain for £12m - hugely unproven, not even BPL experience - and he's starting to look like a brilliant piece of business.
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by RedOranje on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:57 pm

Have I said anything about strikers? At all? Please stop throwing out that strawman.

Adam wasn't a big financial spend, in point of fact his buy was the definition of "quick fix."

AOC is what you've so far been referring to as "big spending" and now he's an argument in favour of what you wish the club would do?

You're throwing out some very mixed signals and contradictory stuff here, mate, and it's confusing on a level beyond the obvious contradictions as it's not what I'd generally expect from you.

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Fahim89 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:08 pm

ohhhh crazzzzzzzzyyyyyyyy SUMMER TRANSFER PEOPLE! ! things heating up already . . Cool
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by RedOranje on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:18 pm

To make things clear (if I didn't already), I am NOT an advocate of spending 100m+ every summer... nor even this coming one. I do not, however, believe that signing Hoilett would constitute a successful summer transfer window... in fact I think it could end up rather disastrous. The club will NEED to strengthen. That will require some spending.The competitors will certainly be strengthening and Liverpool would only fall further behind when the club really needs to be making up ground.

Financial responsibility is certainly a requirement for the long term future of any club. HOWEVER, so is returning to the CL and trophies are a huge part of what the game and our chosen club is about. Call it an evil of the game if you like, but it's a necessary evil. The club has signed some huge new deals in the past year or so, so there should definitely be some money available without the owners kicking in significant amounts. There should be deals available on the continent and elsewhere that would make it available to strengthen without breaking the bank. English players are certainly overpriced and that is what through the last season's spendings out of proportion.

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Art Morte on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:25 pm

@RedOranje wrote:Have I said anything about strikers? At all? Please stop throwing out that strawman.

Adam wasn't a big financial spend, in point of fact his buy was the definition of "quick fix."

AOC is what you've so far been referring to as "big spending" and now he's an argument in favour of what you wish the club would do?

You're throwing out some very mixed signals and contradictory stuff here, mate, and it's confusing on a level beyond the obvious contradictions as it's not what I'd generally expect from you.

I was covering up different areas.

Strikers: Last year we got Carroll, Suarez and Bellamy, so strikers are Check.

Midfield: Three Starting XI players bought last year, so midfield is Check.

Defenders: One full-back and one CB bought, I'd say these are Check, too.

Reina, Check.


Against that check-list, I agree with what Comolli says (or what goal.com says he's saying, if you want to take it that way) and I pretty much feel that anyone who is asking for big spending in the summer is asking for a quick fix.

Another matter if we sell important players, then they have to replaced, but I don't expect many key players to be sold.
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by RedOranje on Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:07 pm

But at least one of the midfielders is NOT of the quality needed, as he was a "quick fix." Another one to two midfielders will likely be leaving.

One of the strikers mentioned is aging and cannot play more than once a week in most cases. Another will likely leave.

And the current squad has shown this season that it is lacking, despite the spending last summer. As such, if the CL and trophies really are the aim, the club cannot afford to stand still while others advance. You're argument appears to be "we spent a lot last summer so we shouldn't spend this coming one" despite many, many different factors pointing to a different conclusion.

Yes, the club spent a lot last summer and brought in the players you mentioned.

Yes, the team improved with it.

Yes, the squad is deeper than it has been in a long time.

But is the club at the level necessary to guarantee a CL spot, much less compete in the latter stages of the CL or aim to the PL title? No, not yet; going by this season's results so far.

Will the other clubs competing choose to not strengthen over the summer? Absolutely not.

You're argument fails to take into account the fact that the club is still in competition with others on the pitch, rather than just in the books. Players will leave and need replacing. The squad and starting XI need strengthening for the club to progress. The club cannot simply say, "Well, we have players for all the positions, that's good enough." It has to consider whether the players in said positions are of the quality needed for it's ambitions as well as what the other clubs are doing. And that's not even taking into account the players that are moved on when the time is right or because they wish to leave. Forgive me if I'm reading you wrong here, but you only seem to be arguing from a financial and quantitative standpoint with regards to the squad, while completely ignoring the qualitative side of it all.

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by stevieg8 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:29 pm

I think we should take those quotes in light of last year and the team's current needs. I think most people on this forum would be perfectly comfortable with a summer that saw a few people leave, a player like Hoilett, and one big name to come in (and than maybe a few smaller deals for depth purposes, like Coates was last summer). In that light, if Dalglish is given 35-40 mil to spend, which would be a substantial decrease after last summer, we might still see what we would consider to be a very successful summer.

Red, while I agree with what you're saying, I don't think you're too far away from Art in reality. I think the summer I just mentioned reflects largely what it is you're shooting for, but that means you guys are in agreement on one basic premise - that our team is one or maybe two major players away from competing at a high level, making CL consistently, and moving on from there. I think if Comolli and KK do some good business, we can accomplish that goal on a relatively small budget.

Also, Red, who was it you thought would leave of the Strikers this summer? Are you referring to Kuyt or do you think Suarez is going to move on?
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Le Samourai on Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:43 pm

Hoilett certainly won't constitute a successful transfer window.At least a mid, preferably a versatile one.Kwadwo Assamoah is a more realistic signing than Javi but if we could get Javi that would be fantastic.

Also , and this is just a pipe dream that's born primarily out of distrust in Downing and Henderson that won't go away because I'm spoilt, but someone like Gaitan..or ...alternatively Eriksen/Honda would give me some comfort.

But that's asking alot.


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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Don't call me James on Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:21 pm

We don't have to spend big necessarily to buy quality. If our scouts are doing their job right they should spot untapped potential in some corner of the world but that seems very unlikely. There are many potential greats out there, that need discovering, those who won't even cost us more than a couple of million (Kagawaesque buys).


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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Le Samourai on Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:41 pm

Messiakanino wrote:We don't have to spend big necessarily to buy quality. If our scouts are doing their job right they should spot untapped potential in some corner of the world but that seems very unlikely. There are many potential greats out there, that need discovering, those who won't even cost us more than a couple of million (Kagawaesque buys).


That's hoping for even more lol. Kagwa was a dope buy.

Something I fear about that tho, is that people will give up on a guy like that before he even comes.The club would need to have alot of faith in that type of player like Bouroussia did with Kagwa.

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Fahim89 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:26 pm

One name that would certainly turn up is of HAZARD. . . but my question is keeping in mind both Red's & Art's perspectives would that be the type of players we would be pursuing? or Hoilett like? no disrespect to Hoilett but he is just not of the same league . . .
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Don't call me James on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:03 pm

Teemu Pukki is going to be a WORLD CLASS STRIKER in the future. That's the type of players i want us to sign. Hyypia should convince him, Schalke have a gem in their hands and they might not even know it yet.

To the tell you guys the truth, if we dont spend in the summer, it'll be this seasons disappointment all over again. We'll be out of title contention by October and out of CL contention by January. I really don't have it in me going through this same disappointing results week in week out next season.

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by donttreadonred on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:29 pm

I'm going to have to agree with Red on this one. To argue that simply because we bought big last summer we should not spend this coming window. Some of the players bought were only short-term fixes (ex: Bellamy). Some of them have yet to consistently and positively influence the squad (ex:Downing, Adam and to an extent Henderson).

I'm reading the version of the article on ESPN.co.uk and his quotes include:

"It is early days. We will probably make some adjustments in the summer but nothing that we've done (sic) before,''

"We signed nine players since Kenny came back so there will be a few adjustments but nothing massive.

"We have done the hard work and now it is a question of making some adjustments in certain positions.

"Kenny has said it several times that we have a very competitive squad and all positions are covered by two or three players, quality players, and we have a lot of young players coming through as well.''

The quotes say nothing of the amount spent, the quality of the players targeted, or even of no spending whatsoever. If anything, they suggest that we are looking to bolster the squad. We simply will not be engaging in the total overhaul that we have seen in the past few years. 9 players brought in since last January is a considerable amount. I think we'll see 2-3 leave and 2-3 come in. The quality of the players coming in will determine the success of the window, not the shear amount of transfers made.

I don't think Comolli is naive enough to think we can seriously improve our results without investment. I take the quotes to mean that we will not be throwing money at every big name in Europe. Intelligent transfer over splashing the cash on big stars (i.e. the Man City strategy).

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Art Morte on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:38 pm

Okay, guys.

So, where's the money coming from?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that a) our owners are rich-beyond-caring or b) eager to make great losses.

It's not distant past when we were close to administration.

And as far as I know our accounts for last season have not been published yet, but I can tell you they're not gonna tell of a profit made.

So, with how big losses will you be fine with? I think Henry has said that LFC will aim to spend only what it makes and that's the sort of model I agree with. If our club or the owners haven't got money, how much would you be willing to loan from banks in order to buy players?

Keep in mind that our aim this season was a return to the CL riches and that's not gonna happen.
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by stevieg8 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:48 pm

@Art Morte wrote:Okay, guys.

So, where's the money coming from?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that a) our owners are rich-beyond-caring or b) eager to make great losses.

It's not distant past when we were close to administration.

And as far as I know our accounts for last season have not been published yet, but I can tell you they're not gonna tell of a profit made.

So, with how big losses will you be fine with? I think Henry has said that LFC will aim to spend only what it makes and that's the sort of model I agree with. If our club or the owners haven't got money, how much would you be willing to loan from banks in order to buy players?

Keep in mind that our aim this season was a return to the CL riches and that's not gonna happen.

This implies to me a lack of knowledge on your part, so let me clear some things up. John Henry is not an oil baron or Russian tycoon, this is true. He's not going to be shelling out 200k pound contracts like Man City does. This does not mean he's going to cut any corners. He owns multiple highly profitable businesses and is an avid businessman who knows how to turn a profit. This includes the Red Sox, a team with an almost $200 million payroll on a yearly basis, and yet still find themselves in the black every single year. He's taken over a team with a devout fan base and solid revenue streams, has taken some large wages off the books, and I'm sure has made large moves behind the scenes we know nothing about to improve the club's financial standing. I would be SHOCKED, genuinely amazed if he has taken out long term loans to finance any of the player moves that have happened, and I do not believe that he will do so in the future. This doesn't mean we won't have money to spend, but quite the opposite. We will have money to spend, a good amount of it, and it will be provided in ways that you should have no fear about. This club is not going anywhere near administration any time soon, I would bet my life on it.

This assessment is from my personal experiences with Henry as an owner of a sports team ive followed for a long time. Trust me, you can happily ignore the "where are the funds coming from" conversation.
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by donttreadonred on Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:53 pm

Mark my words; spending what we make in this upcoming window will earn us mid-table obscurity for the foreseeable future.

We don't have the players already in place to contend for the Champions League by merely investing what we make. So, I suppose the real question is what the near-future (meaning the next 3-5 years) goal for the club will be.

[The one caveat to this argument are the potential transfer fees of Cole and Aquilani. I can’t see either coming back into the squad, and if we can con/coax/negotiate decent sums for both, we could reinvest in necessary areas without a great deal of out-of-pocket spending.]

If we are aiming for the Champions League and returning to the pentacle of European Football, we have to lay a foundation through investment. Last season was supposed to do this, but those players have yet to truly come good and may never. This is what is known as a misstep, and it was an expensive one. The question now is do we accept a slow building process through youth and potential stars, hoping for hidden/undiscovered gems to provide our star potential, while risking irrelevance for the immediate future. This is certainly a viable option, but one that will require patience in management and ownership, and will most likely see us lose our already dubious reputation as a European (and potentially even Premier League) power.

The other option is to spend big again (big being a relative term here, not Cavani/Hazard/Neymar prices, but real quality in the 15-20 million range) on a few players that will immediately impact the squad. (A finisher on the right wing could do wonders for this team.) The question of available funds is a valid one. Let me just offer this; I’ve never seen these owners afraid to spend on quality players in the American Baseball market. They get a lot of press in the English media for following “sabermetrics” and being the poster boys for the “Moneyball” theory of sports team management. The truth is they’re not. They use a hybrid system. The Oakland A’s are the true “sabermetric” disciples. The Red Sox followed the principles, but were never afraid to splash in the market. (A bigger question is whether or not the concept is viable for soccer/football. Downing was the poster boy for this type of transfer {not his price, but his production}, yet he has failed to reproduce those stats at Liverpool. So much in soccer rests on player chemistry over individual production stats. So, it could be argued that there is no magic stat, such as the On Base Percentage in baseball.) The point is that while I don’t see us splashing cash like we did last summer, I can see us identifying a few targets and spending what is necessary to bring them in.

Let’s be clear; I’m going to support this club whether we come in 1st or get relegated. My argument for spending on a few big players this summer is merely driven by a desire not to see us languish in a “good, but not quite good enough” state again. I fear that if we do not right this ship quickly, we could very well face a few more seasons in just this sort of mid-table limbo that we have all been suffering through. As it stands, we are a cup team (not only in our chances for glory this season, but in the make-up of the team itself). I think we can remain in this state, hoping for a fortunate run in the cups, for a few seasons without spending on top class players, but I don’t think that’s what any of us or the club’s management really wants. Whether or not they are willing to do what it takes to push us over the edge is what we are talking about. The big problem is that threshold keeps climbing higher and higher as other clubs improve. This year was perhaps the best opportunity to break back into the top four with Arsenal and Chelsea both faltering in crucial moments this season. I fear we may have squandered the best chance we will have in the next few years. It’s ironic, as that last sentence could be applied to so many aspects of this season.

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by donttreadonred on Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:55 pm

@stevieg8: Are you a Red Sox fan too? Right on!

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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by stevieg8 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:59 pm

@donttreadonred wrote:@stevieg8: Are you a Red Sox fan too? Right on!

Haha yeah that's actually how I became a pool fan... I had wanted to care about a club team for some time, but didnt know how to pick one, and then Henry buys them. I'm from massachusetts originally.
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Art Morte on Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:35 pm

Okay, so pretty much everyone here apart from me is in the opinion that doing some major business in the summer is the right thing to do (and that funds won't be a problem).

Well, I trust our current owners to do what's sensible, they've impressed me so far and are in the best position to know what can and should be done. We shall see what happens in the summer. If it's major spending, then I'll eat my words.
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by Fahim89 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:56 pm

See my understanding is the spending we have made in a large extent has future implications . . a little overprice but not a lost cause. However, with the changes made this season its imminent that we are close to being BRILLIANT again . . with slight adjustments we might just achieve the levels required to compete at the top.

My question is if know that there is a clear lagging then why not try to get rid of it? Players like Sterling, Suso, Ecceleston, Morgan, Ngoo & co. are on the pipeline to perform . . but the necessity is of an POACHER at this moment of time . . one who would finish off chances created by the Suarez, Gerrard & a like . . someone like Balotelli (not in terms of attitude Razz ) . . .

if one or two inclusions improve the side exponentially then Why Not?
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Re: No big spending in summer

Post by poolsupporter on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:16 pm

Our scouting needs to see some major improvements in my opinion. I don't think it's necessary to spend billions in the summer. Furthermore, one has to take into account the kind of players we can attract. We need to be smart this coming window, both in terms of prices as well as quality.
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