Re: Ze German Thread

by ProXima Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:32 am

These new trikots for the WC are mediocre. "Classic" green kits have been so much better...

Spoiler:

by dostoevsky Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:44 am

rwo power wrote:Sami Khedira suffered a rupture of his anterior and his inner cruciate ligament in the knee and will be out for at least half a year. Germany's DM woes worsen.

At least it seems that Bastian Schweinsteiger will return to proper training in January (he is supposed to return for the winter training camp of FC Bayern München.)

Maybe we will see the double Bender starting on Tuesday?

Very sad to hear this, I wish him all the best. He always performs very well against Italy, due largely to the uniqueness of his qualities in the German midfield as a player who likes to make late moves through the lines from deep as well as his competent defensive cover. Sven Bender is far from a downgrade however it is never nice to see a player succumb to such a serious injury, especially in a friendly - though a game with Italy is never such. I hope he suffers no setbacks and makes it to Brazil for his sake.

by rwo power Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:03 pm

*nod* Yeah, I also hope he will recover fast and fully. Especially before a World Cup it is doubly bad to get severely injured like that. But I hope he will still manage to get fit in time for Brazil.

by urbaNRoots Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:05 pm

Feel really sorry for Khedira, this must really suck for him.

However this might just make Löw start Schweinsteiger with a DM more often which makes the team more balanced than usual... knowing Löw though he will stick with his BS and pair him with Gündogan or Kroos.

by VivaStPauli Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:29 am

And we got so many injured. Schweinsteiger getting injured again and again, still no ETA on Gündogans recovery, the Benders get their faces broken every few weeks - we're running out of CMs and DMs.

I ideally wanted us to field Schweinsteiger and Gündogan simultanously and offset their defensive frailties (though they're not that bad) with early pressing.

Gomez and Klose are doubtful as well, though Gomez will most likely make it, leaving us with Kruse, or a false 9. We're running thin, and Brazil is coming fast.

by juventus101 Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:42 am

Play Podolski as a false 9. I believe when he gets back from his injury he will be tried there for Arsenal and I believe he will succeed. He did it for a while for Koln when Novakovic was injured for half a season and succeeded so I see no reason he wont excell there. Play Reus, Ozil, and Gotze behind him, and Schweinsteiger and one of the Benders or Gundogan as the CMs. Kroos can rotate with the CMs or AM. Muller can rotate with the wingers or forward. Khedira, even if he does get back in time, would also need time to get back into form so I think Sven or Gundogan are better options. Maybe even Lahm, and then play Howedes as RB. Gomez is in the same situation as Khedira. Doesnt matter if hes just healthy. They need to regain their form as well.

by Dante Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:13 am

Such bad luck for Khedira. He might not be of the most gifted footballers but i've always liked him . I wish we see him at the world cup.

As for Löw , he may have big trust in his players , but Schweinsteiger should be playing in his ideal set up imo , next to a real defensive midfielder. I don't know if it's such a good idea to pair him with a more "offensive CM than him" and basically leave him as the DM on the pitch. It's ok to count on their tactical availability and overall quality to see off their defensive duties , but ultimately both of them , be it Gundogan or anybody who's not a real DM , playing their own game will mean the defence could be left vulnerable , especially against really good sides.

Tactical availability from Bastian may be great but ideally , you need someone who excells in protecting the defence , even though Schweinsteiger-Khedira offer good balance . Anyway, i do agree with Viva that said pressing and some adjustments should erase all that even if it's Bastian-Gundogan , but i think it cannot happen every single time , even though i suppose it could happen often enough if everything works as it should. The most important is , will such a pair unbalance things ?

Idk , but i feel Germany will need both Bastian & Khedira in the world cup , that for me goes without saying. Especially Bastian , man such luck .. I really like Schweinsteiger , felt for him when i heard the news . Too many injuries in the German camp and that's like the worst thing . Hope all of them can get back for the WC in time and offer us some great games.

by Valkyrja Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:46 am

juventus101 wrote:Play Podolski as a false 9. I believe when he gets back from his injury he will be tried there for Arsenal and I believe he will succeed. He did it for a while for Koln when Novakovic was injured for half a season and succeeded so I see no reason he wont excell there. Play Reus, Ozil, and Gotze behind him, and Schweinsteiger and one of the Benders or Gundogan as the CMs. Kroos can rotate with the CMs or AM. Muller can rotate with the wingers or forward. Khedira, even if he does get back in time, would also need time to get back into form so I think Sven or Gundogan are better options. Maybe even Lahm, and then play Howedes as RB. Gomez is in the same situation as Khedira. Doesnt matter if hes just healthy. They need to regain their form as well.

Podolski over Muller. Laughing

by juventus101 Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:33 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
juventus101 wrote:Play Podolski as a false 9. I believe when he gets back from his injury he will be tried there for Arsenal and I believe he will succeed. He did it for a while for Koln when Novakovic was injured for half a season and succeeded so I see no reason he wont excell there. Play Reus, Ozil, and Gotze behind him, and Schweinsteiger and one of the Benders or Gundogan as the CMs. Kroos can rotate with the CMs or AM. Muller can rotate with the wingers or forward. Khedira, even if he does get back in time, would also need time to get back into form so I think Sven or Gundogan are better options. Maybe even Lahm, and then play Howedes as RB. Gomez is in the same situation as Khedira. Doesnt matter if hes just healthy. They need to regain their form as well.
Podolski over Muller.

Never been a big fan of Muller. Hes a great player but personally an on form, fully healthy Podolski when played centrally in my opinion is one of the most underrated players in the world. Better than Muller.

by urbaNRoots Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:30 pm

Stop with the Podolski BS, I love the guy but he's not first XI material, atleast not when he's competing with Özil, Reus, Müller and G*tze.

by rwo power Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:24 pm

Yay! We have the double Bender playing today XD Sven and Lars on the double 6!

Weidenfeller
Westermann - J. Boateng - Mertesacker - Schmelzer
L. Bender - S. Bender
M. Götze - T. Kroos - Reus
M. Kruse

by ioilersrock448 Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:14 pm

Perhaps, only perhaps, Jansen could/should be LB for 2014.

by urbaNRoots Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:22 am

Jansen just like Schmelzer is a bit poor defensively... neither strikes me as a great option but Schmelzer is better in attack, I guess that is his only advantage.

Whoever plays LB will have the defensive support from Reus though, so won't be as badly exposed.

by urbaNRoots Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:33 am

Btw Mertesacker was excellent once again, he's peaking at the best possible time.

I also hope Löw finally sees how important playing with a natural DM (or two) could be against stronger opposition. For me one of the Benders should be paired with Schweinsteiger in the later stages (against Brazil, Italy, Spain).

Fingers crossed, no more injuries happen to our players, the way we defended last night was amazing... we're going to need that in the World Cup in later stages.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:16 am

if only it would be possible to play the bender twins as double 6 and also give them the same shirt number!!!

by VivaStPauli Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:53 am

Give them 19 and 16, or 10 and 18, something you can confuse in the heat of the match.

That match was incredibly boring to watch, and at times infuriating, because we sucked for most of it. But there's positives:

1) Our defense. Not the entire defensive composure, but that was never going to be great with the right flank lacking Lahm and Müller, and Schweinsteiger not covering the center of the pitch. But boy did Boateng and Mertesacker look great. Sure, it was only against England, but they still have Rooney, who is brilliant, and an in-form Sturridge, both of whom we made look like scrubs. I liked that part. Hummels did well for his few minutes, too, and Höwedes I liked as well, though I've liked him in most NT outings.

2) We've scored from a set-piece for the second match in a row now. That will be an incredibly great asset once we come up against strong, defense-heavy teams like Spain or Italy, especially against the midgety teams. Kroos' corners are very precise, and Hummels, Höwedes, and Mertesacker all know how to take a header.

Regarding the "natural DM" thing - I think you can offset brilliant tackling from the likes of the Benders with pairing Schweinsteiger and Gündogan, both of whom have great positioning and are hard workers. I really am sold on the Piggy/Ilkay partnership already, TBH.

by VivaStPauli Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:17 pm

What do you guys think of our group?

The media is touting it as an easy ride, but I only marginally agree. Of course it's easier than our Euro 2012 group, but still... Ghana are no pushovers, Portugal might even beat us if they have their best day ever, and we have the worst ever, but probably not, because they always choke against us... Leaving us with the US, I'm not actually sure where they are as an opponent. We're clearly superior in every department, but on the other hand they have no blatant weakness, work well as a unit, and work their asses off like almost no other NT. I actually expect there to be a lot of draws in the group stage.

We could've gotten a lot of easier draws imho, but also more difficult ones. We arguably got the easiest of the top teams in Portugal (unless you count England as a top team), but we got one of the African big dogs in Ghana, they might have less attacking power than Cote d'Ivoire, but they are far more solid as a unit, and in defense. And the US match will be taxing as hell, stamina wise.
Also, against Portugal and Ghana (though mostly Portugal) there's a very very good chance we'll have at least one serious injury, they defend dirty as hell at times.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:22 pm

It's a really tough group I think, the fact that we seem considered easy favourites doesn't make it easier at all.

Portugal was our strongest opponent in the '12 group, I thought the game against them was really close.

Still incredible to me how after Gomez scored the decisive goal in that one Scholl would slag him off like that, with *bleep* Jogi not defending him.

Ghana is a strong team.

As for the USA, hell, Löw probably considers Klinsmann to be a great manager, so who knows what tactical blunders he might come up with to counter that terrible threat.

by Valkyrja Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:18 pm

So what's the expected team for the WC ?

Neuer
Lahm Hummels Mertesacker Schmelzer
Gundogan Schweinsteiger
Muller Ozil Reus
Gotze

???

by rwo power Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:27 pm

Well, on the plus side, our NT had to be concentrated fully from match one on. If they keep their concentration and avoid stupid mistakes, it should be a manageable group, albeit not an easy one. A group of strong teams like this one will likely mean no idiot 4:4 results after being 4:0 up, as they just can't afford a slip up.

by urbaNRoots Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:15 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:What do you guys think of our group?

The media is touting it as an easy ride, but I only marginally agree. Of course it's easier than our Euro 2012 group, but still... Ghana are no pushovers, Portugal might even beat us if they have their best day ever, and we have the worst ever, but probably not, because they always choke against us... Leaving us with the US, I'm not actually sure where they are as an opponent. We're clearly superior in every department, but on the other hand they have no blatant weakness, work well as a unit, and work their asses off like almost no other NT. I actually expect there to be a lot of draws in the group stage.

We could've gotten a lot of easier draws imho, but also more difficult ones. We arguably got the easiest of the top teams in Portugal (unless you count England as a top team), but we got one of the African big dogs in Ghana, they might have less attacking power than Cote d'Ivoire, but they are far more solid as a unit, and in defense. And the US match will be taxing as hell, stamina wise.
Also, against Portugal and Ghana (though mostly Portugal) there's a very very good chance we'll have at least one serious injury, they defend dirty as hell at times.

It's not an easy group at all. Quite the other way around, it's the most balanced group in the World Cup. Ghana, USA, Portugal are about at the same level with us being the stand out team. The good thing however is that Ghana/USA/Portugal will take points off each other so as long as our boys remain concentrated, fit and play as we did in the Quali we'll finish 1st.

As for the team, nothing is certain yet. Things could change really quickly based on form/injuries but we'll most probably see:

Neuer
Lahm Mertesacker Boateng/Hummels Schmelzer
Khedira Schweinsteiger
Müller Özil Reus
Klose

However I'd really like to see one of the Bender's instead of Khedira paired with Basti, I think it gives us a better balance between attack and defence.

by rwo power Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:25 pm

Well, Khedira is doubtful due to his injury anyway. It is really a pity that some good players will miss out due to injuries. (Badstuber will likely not make it either, and the third GK for Switzerland Marco Wölfli just ruptured his achilles tendon this weekend).

by Hapless_Hans Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:04 pm

forget Khedira, we have to worry about Schweinsteiger and Gündogan being fit.

by DuringTheWar Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:10 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:What do you guys think of our group?

The media is touting it as an easy ride, but I only marginally agree. Of course it's easier than our Euro 2012 group, but still... Ghana are no pushovers, Portugal might even beat us if they have their best day ever, and we have the worst ever, but probably not, because they always choke against us... Leaving us with the US, I'm not actually sure where they are as an opponent. We're clearly superior in every department, but on the other hand they have no blatant weakness, work well as a unit, and work their asses off like almost no other NT. I actually expect there to be a lot of draws in the group stage.

We could've gotten a lot of easier draws imho, but also more difficult ones. We arguably got the easiest of the top teams in Portugal (unless you count England as a top team), but we got one of the African big dogs in Ghana, they might have less attacking power than Cote d'Ivoire, but they are far more solid as a unit, and in defense. And the US match will be taxing as hell, stamina wise.
Also, against Portugal and Ghana (though mostly Portugal) there's a very very good chance we'll have at least one serious injury, they defend dirty as hell at times.
It's not an easy group at all. Quite the other way around, it's the most balanced group in the World Cup. Ghana, USA, Portugal are about at the same level with us being the stand out team. The good thing however is that Ghana/USA/Portugal will take points off each other so as long as our boys remain concentrated, fit and play as we did in the Quali we'll finish 1st.

As for the team, nothing is certain yet. Things could change really quickly based on form/injuries but we'll most probably see:

Neuer
Lahm Mertesacker Boateng/Hummels Schmelzer
Khedira Schweinsteiger
Müller Özil Reus
Klose

However I'd really like to see one of the Bender's instead of Khedira paired with Basti, I think it gives us a better balance between attack and defence.

Please not klose, he should not become the world cups all time top scorer, seriously. Why not Gotze?

by rwo power Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:22 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:Please not klose, he should not become the world cups all time top scorer, seriously.

Why not? If he manages to stay healthy, play for Germany and score goals, he will have fully deserved it for his consistency and being a model athlete.

by DuringTheWar Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:30 pm

rwo power wrote:
DuringTheWar wrote:Please not klose, he should not become the world cups all time top scorer, seriously.
Why not? If he manages to stay healthy, play for Germany and score goals, he will have fully deserved it for his consistency and being a model athlete.

It doesn't really matter, it just seems more "appropriate" for Ronaldo to remain the top scorer because he was a much better player.

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