How is Antonio Valencia rated outside the English Premier League?

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

kiranr wrote:Ok, he is a good winger, but are some of you saying he is better than Robben?

Pretty sure SAF would choose Robben over Valencia if given the choice every single time.

He's better than Robben in the same way Assou-Ekotto is better than Evra.

Robben has done nothing of any note for more than 2 years.

Living on past performances and names is not something i believe in, i believe in the here and now and how players are performing right now.

Yes Valencia will never reach Robben's top level but as of the last 2 years Valencia has been performing at a higher level and at a more consistent basis.

I also find it funny how Valencia's supposed one tricky pony style is being put down when Robben is one of the most one dimensional players out there.

What did Valencia do in the last 2 seasons that makes him supposedly better than Robben..?

Yes, you agree Robben was better 3 season ago(2009-10), ok fair enough, lets give you benefit of doubt.


2 seasons ago, Valencia was injured for most part, he started just 15 matches and was subbed out most time and made only 5 sub appearance.

How could he have done better than Robben when he made just 15 starting appearance..?

he scored just 3 goals and made 3 assist.

Come on Mole, give it up... What is wrong with you man....?


ok lets look at this season.


Are you seriously saying Stats aside, of which Robben beats him hands down, although he made fewer appearances.


Do you seriously mean, Robben who helped Bayern Kicked out Madrid, thereby playing CPL final while Valencia and Manchester United were kicked out in group stage had a better CPL the Robben who played in the final...?


Also Robben played in German Cup final, Valencia didn't...?


it's not even like United won their league or whatsoever.


I can not even believe I am debating Robben with Valencia, this must be a joke and I'm out.


except only of course when we compare who is better between Valencia and Shaqiri and Valencia.

Clearly to me, Shaqiri did kicked out United out of CPL, where was Valencia...?

Shaqiri knocked United out? Better than Valencia? Calling Mueller a winger?

Oh God.......

Maybe it's just because top teams rarely ever use pure wingers nowadays?

Le Samourai wrote:
@Mclewis, completely agree, so difficult to compare him to the modern winger, don't know why you would, he has a completely different role. However Jesus Navas would like a word with you

Haha well see I consider Navas a winger more than a right-sided midfielder and that's just down to his stature and my perception of him really. From what I've seen of him, he definitely makes the effort to track back and help his full-back, but is he really effective at that like Valencia has been? Not so much. On that alone, I rate Valencia the better player in that position. He's just more complete.

izzy wrote:Shaqiri knocked United out? Better than Valencia? Calling Mueller a winger?

Oh God.......

So you know better than Loew and Heynckes right..? I hope we employ you soon as our manager.


Many article has refer to Muller as winger, I guess you know better than them...

Muller became world cup golden boy playing as a winger, Muller became world top scorer playing as a winger, Muller made most assist in the world cup playing as winger.



http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1956/europe/2012/02/10/2897877/bayern-munichs-franck-ribery-thomas-muller-is-best-on-the

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/man-utd-man-city-watching-bayern-munich-winger-muller-euros-3224261

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_M%C3%BCller

The Messiah wrote:

izzy wrote:Shaqiri knocked United out? Better than Valencia? Calling Mueller a winger?

Oh God.......

So you know better than Loew and Heynckes right..? I hope we employ you soon as our manager.


Many article has refer to Muller as winger, I guess you know better than them...

Muller became world cup golden boy playing as a winger, Muller became world top scorer playing as a winger, Muller made most assist in the world cup playing as winger.



http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1956/europe/2012/02/10/2897877/bayern-munichs-franck-ribery-thomas-muller-is-best-on-the

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/man-utd-man-city-watching-bayern-munich-winger-muller-euros-3224261

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_M%C3%BCller

LOL. You use Tribalcrap, lol.com and wiki to back up that?

I suppose David Villa is a Inside Left Forward, seeing as he played there for Barca and Spain, lets ignore the fact that he natural position is CF.

LOL.

Van Gaal has more football knowledge than anyone you mentioned put together and when he played him, he played him as a Second striker.

End of story TBH.

I dunno what you're arguing about stats, you're just opening yourself up to be raped the next time you foolishly decide to call Robben better than Ronaldo or even Hulk for that matter.

Le Samourai wrote:Van Gaal has more football knowledge than anyone you mentioned put together and when he played him, he played him as a Second striker.

End of story TBH.

I dunno what you're arguing about stats, you're just opening yourself up to be raped the next time you foolishly decide to call Robben better than Ronaldo or even Hulk for that matter.

Dude, C.Ronaldo is obviously better than Robben.

So now Hulk is a winger right...? and Muller is not a winger, Muller has played more in wing position both for club and National team than in SS OR AM.

First season under Van Gall he played mainly as SS but he also played as a winger...


and yes Gomez is a much better striker than Hulk, that was my argument.

That probably has to be one of the most stupid things I have ever seen to argue a point.

Ribery is foolish, Muller is all about movement, something restricted by having a channeled role on the wing, It's better for Ribery when Muller plays on the right because Muller's movement without the ball gives him more space and a a extra passing option , it's not better for Muller.

You put the stats yourself, his two best seasons he played predominantly as a SS.For Germany he sets up on the right, but Ozil moves into the space he leaves when he moves into. I actually don't think he flourishes in that role at all despite the WC performances....it restricts what he can and cannot do.The fact that they play so heavily on the counter and positions are interchangeable helps his adaptation.

And yes Hulk is a winger.

izzy wrote:That probably has to be one of the most stupid things I have ever seen to argue a point.

Whats your point exactly...?

Muller has played more as a winger than SS through out his career, he played as SS just ONE season under Van Gaal, Mind you he also played in both wings that season.

He played mostly as winger this season.


Muller has never played any other position for German national team apart from right wing and he has made 32 appearance scoring 10 goals in that position.

In 11/12 Muller started 18 games as an AMC, 17 games as a AMR and one game as an AML in the Bundesliga.

So really hes more of a central attacking mid be it ss or otherwise than a winger.

Crimson wrote:In 11/12 Muller started 18 games as an AMC, 17 games as a AMR and one game as an AML in the Bundesliga.

So really hes more of a central attacking mid be it ss or otherwise than a winger.

Link please...?

According to you, Muller started 18games in attacking midfield and 17games as Right winger and 1 more as left winger.

Dude, all together that is 36appearance he started and in Bundesliga we play 34 matches.


Lets even say he made 36 bundesliga start, (which he didn't because I know full when he made 33starts and 1sub) are you going to ignore all the 32 appearance he made as a winger for German National team.

Back on topic, guys.

The Messiah wrote:Well....Muller plays as Winger for Germany, he played more on the wing for us this season, he became world-cup Golden boy and top scorer playing as a winger.


Most of the things Muller has Achieved so far in his career, he achieved them playing on the wings.

You can't really compare them, but Muller has done more than Valencia playing on the wings.

You really need to learn to use better examples

Comparing Muller & Valencia is just.....

To be honest I agree with Messiah, and Valencia can't compare to Robben unles the only criteria you use is being a team player.

Hulk is not a winger?


Sorry McLewis, just had to say that.


Back on topic, he's top 10 on my list.

The Messiah wrote:

V wrote:Stats:

According to your logic, this is Iniesta best season..?


A season he failed to win La-Liga and CPL


You are joke man.


Iniesta had far more better season.

I wasn't his greatest season but one of his best. Iniesta was terrific this year. of course he didn't win CL and Liga but on an individual aspect this was a great season

Kids, this discussion is downright embarrassing, your arguments are terrible.

When something like this comes up i use stats and whip up the bible (whoscored.com) and treat it as gospel. Here are the best wingers and their ratings, no ifs and buts:

Player Rating
Ronaldo 8.37
Nene 7.92
Hazard 7.87
Ribery 7.76
Cazorla 7.6
Silva 7.55
Bale 7.54
Robben 7.49
Valencia 7.42
Sanchz 7.36
Navas 7.35
Menez 7.35
Lavezzi 7.29
Di Maria 7.29
Nani 7.28
Blaszczykowski 7.26
Young 7.21

So Valencia is no.9 which makes him top 10.

Nani, Muller, Ribery, Robben, and Hazard are all better than him in my opinion. If Kagawa, Ronaldo, Messi, Lavezzi, Gotze, Podolski, and Sanchez are considered wingers, then theyre above him too. Bale, Navas, and Shaqiri are arguable too.

Problem is, Chino, I don't consider Bale, Silva, Hazard or Nene to be true wingers. They're either attacking midfielders with flair or just flat out right or left-sided midfielders like Valencia.

Depends on how the coach lines up his squad. If it's a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1 or something like that, then the term "winger" gets lost in translation with your regular RM or LM.

Didn't Idro snap when I said Mueller was best out right a few months back?

Gil wrote:Shakira is overrated & a poor mans Robben. Kroos lacks the athleticism & the proper skill set to play there. Muller isn't an AM best form always seems to be when he's playing wide right.

Anyway what's your opinion on Pato to Chelsea rumours. Sturridge will probably be sold if it happens.

The Messiah wrote:
Kroos lacks the athleticism to play there, who is this dude..?


Do you even watch Kroos...?


Muller plays best as SS, I bet you don't know anything about Bayern, please cut the crap.

McLewis wrote:Problem is, Chino, I don't consider Bale, Silva, Hazard or Nene to be true wingers. They're either attacking midfielders with flair or just flat out right or left-sided midfielders like Valencia.

Depends on how the coach lines up his squad. If it's a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1 or something like that, then the term "winger" gets lost in translation with your regular RM or LM.

There's that and the fact stats are incredibly misleading. It proves absolutely nothing when it comes down to discussing who is the best winger.

For example Hazard, Nene and Ronaldo are not better wingers than Ribery.

Infact Hazard and Ronaldo are not even wingers.

And as you said most of the players on that list are either attacking midfielders or inside forwards.

McLewis wrote:Problem is, Chino, I don't consider Bale, Silva, Hazard or Nene to be true wingers. They're either attacking midfielders with flair or just flat out right or left-sided midfielders like Valencia.

Depends on how the coach lines up his squad. If it's a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1 or something like that, then the term "winger" gets lost in translation with your regular RM or LM.

I know, i took the position very liberally and since as far as i know, there is no objective "winger" position i took it as i interpret it, wide advanced players.

TheMessiah derailing another thread and making it about Bayern Munich/ BM players again.

What's new....?

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Props to the rest who discussed what they thought of Valencia. Been interesting reading everyone's opinions.

Jakub Błaszczykowski (Kuba) is better