List of players that rejected Spurs recently

Very passionate and I can appreciate that. Cheers to you for that. But I will not take some of those comments. See below:

CBarca wrote:Fair enough. I didn't want anyone to get the idea that Vertonghen didn't really want Spurs though. He thinks very highly of the club.

I never denied that. All I am saying is, he would have come to Arsenal when we were on the look out in previous summers. We didn't do any business then and this summer, we are already covered. That doesn't imply he doesn't like Spurs, either team was a step up for him. Again, if we were interested and needed him as a CB option, CL football would have tipped it in our favour this summer.

CBarca wrote:
I don't see Levy violating Modric's agreement though. He's still going to go to Madrid. So what if he's trying to get the best deal possible, that's his job, and Modric's behavior hasn't helped him do that, or he could have been gone a long time ago. Levy isn't going to let Madrid lowball him when Modric is on contract till 2016 ffs, Modric will be in Madrid soon enough.

Kranjcar one is just bad. But that's what you get when your shite no but it was bad.

I agree on this. Kranjcar speaking ill would have been a warning for potential signings though. The whole saga with Modric was handled rather poorly, both this summer and the previous. Again, that is not implying Spurs should just sell their star man below their evaluation. But being a little more negotiable might have done away with the entire saga, and made life easier in preseason for all of you.

I am not trolling when I say this, but after two sagas last summer, we learnt our lessons on how much they can hurt.

CBarca wrote:
But I have to question this thread. I know it's funny to everyone to laugh at Spurs (for whatever reason), but rejection means f*ck all for a club like Tottenham who is very ambitious. In fact, I commend Tottenham on their ambition and I hope it continues, they clearly want CL football more than anyone else outside the typical top 4 right now, other than maybe Liverpool.

Liverpool? Come on. They are atleast 2 good summers away from being in the top 4. They have been going backwards, and for their sake, I hope it takes a turn. The days when they were serious rivals were much better than having to deal with some cash bags.

I would want to say Newcastle, but their stinginess makes me wonder sometimes. I am sure Mole would agree on this.

CBarca wrote:

Oh and being interested in big players is a sign of ambition now? If there was real ambition, then half those players would have been convinced to join aboard. Trust me, after hunting down SO many images, I am pretty serious when I say this.

As said, no CL football (f you chelsea) is a deal breaker, that was Sahin's reason, not to mention the 70-80k pound/week salary cap. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking Tottenham is a top top club. They don't have the prestige, the spending power, or the tools necessary to make top players like Llorente/Cazorla/Sahin/maybe Podolski come here, so this is all they've got. The fact that they're going after top players is ambition for a club like Tottenham, I don't see how it's not. I mean, it's more ambition than Arsenal who have been selling their captains and then not spending the money necessary for a proper title challenge, and it shows. The gap between Arsenal and Tottenham has closed in recent years, and I expect it to close even more.

This argument really ticks me off now. We would not spend bucketloads, because we don't have bucketloads in the first place. We are heavily reliant on our matchday revenues and that isn't going to change till our long term sponsorship deals run out. Those deals were needed to finance the new stadium, and the annual debt payments for the staidum also is a drain on our resources.

I am not saying we are without fault. We made two big mistakes - letting players run down their deals and having deadwood on high wages. Combine that with the number of season long injuries to key players and you have a trophyless period.

But we have persevered to stay in top flight and CL. Despite a lack of trophies, we have built our fan base and philosophy with good club management through times of financial constraints. We are a successful club, whether you admit it or not, and whether we win trophies or not. Not saying we are okay with 4th place trophies - rather, saying that we are okay with that in this transition phase.

Btw, we signed those players you mentioned for a combined figure of around 40 million. We spent that money from what we saved through the years, not after generating it from Pursie/Song sales. A bulk of what we got for Fabregas & Ca$hri was spent in that last day market dash last summer.

Again, it is not enough to be linked with top players if you can't finish some of those deals. If you feel you have the money to bid for them, then have the convincing power to get them to join as well. If you want to talk about 'ambition' and take a dig at Arsenal selling star players, why are you selling your arguably best player? Clearly you aren't being any different?

We manage to move past players being c*nts and create new stars to take us forward. We try to get the best deals possible within the limits of our financial muscle for players coming in. To say that this is reflecting negatively on our ambition is absolute rubbish. Rewind January 2011 when we were in good stead for a quadruple before f*cking it all up.

We had trouble last summer with those two sagas but did our best to recover and make it into CL. THAT was being ambitious too. We again had a couple of players who wanted to be bigger than the club and we sold them on fairly good prices to move forward again.

Just because we sell players does not imply we have no ambition. Just as being linked with a player does not show ambition. True ambition is when you do something about it.


PS: I know I trolled in my earlier posts, but this one is a lot more sincere and respectful of your position this summer. Unlike most chavs, I am not writing off AVB as a manager yet either - go dig up my post in 'rival watch' thread in arsenal section when AVB signed for you guys. So please, instead of using a 'haters gonna hate' cliche, try to have a reasonable argument.

And sorry to the mods for the massive off-topic comments. The ones on topic were troll-worthy anyway

there's being ambitious and there's being a laughing stock

if everton started approaching cl-level players would you call them ambitious or naive?

I am one of the few goners that actually appreciate the rivalry with Spurs. They are a well run club and are on a gradual rise. They dream and try to sign big names... And while they do not succeed most of the time, they still end up with the likes of van der vaarts and vertonghens. What is not to respect about that? I wish our board stood up to other clubs and swatted them away from taking our players even against the players will.

With all that said they are still a club I hate, and nothing makes me smile more than us beating the crap out of them.
Ps: sorry to all the fellow arsenal fans, please spare me

Arsenalfaithfull wrote:I am one of the few goners that actually appreciate the rivalry with Spurs. They are a well run club and are on a gradual rise. They dream and try to sign big names... And while they do not succeed most of the time, they still end up with the likes of van der vaarts and vertonghens. What is not to respect about that? I wish our board stood up to other clubs and swatted them away from taking our players even against the players will.

With all that said they are still a club I hate, and nothing makes me smile more than us beating the crap out of them.
Ps: sorry to all the fellow arsenal fans, please spare me

Who you talking about there?

Yeah, as a non-resident of London, it is understandable that my Spuds hate doesn't stem from any history between the two clubs on the basis of derby location. I just couldn't stomach their fans when I started following Arsenal. Over the many years, it has blossomed into a strong 'dislike' of the club and its fans.

che wrote:there's being ambitious and there's being a laughing stock

if everton started approaching cl-level players would you call them ambitious or naive?

Naive, but Everton hasn't been in the CL or directly on the cusp for 2/3 years now

Edit: Also they don't have the money for that to be realistic, Spurs clearly do

Tbf Spurs have only played in the CL once

List of ex-Arsenal players Spurs have chased/ signed

Vieira( rejected them)

Hleb( rejected them)

Lass(rejected them)

Bentley(signed)

Gallas(signed)

Adebayor(signed)

SO MUCH FOR MOST ORIGINAL TEAM IN LONDON

I actually appreciate Spurs. I dont't want them to be better than us but i think Football need clubs like this , clubs growing up and challenging for the top.

Everyone like either TOP clubs with '' great history'' either clubs like Everton, Fiorentina who are doing well but not enough to be at the top... but as soon as those clubs start geting some serious results... the mocking start

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Tbf Spurs have only played in the CL once

they missed it this year on a technicality....be real

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Tbf Spurs have only played in the CL once

they missed it this year on a technicality....be real

Even so that's only one more than Everton since the CL began.

Not like Spurs have qualified many many times.

If you cant tell the difference between Spurs and Everton over the last couple years than there really is no reason in even bothering to try and explain it

Why do I even try to discuss Spurs on this forum

Just the mention of the name turns everyone into a blockhead

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:If you cant tell the difference between Spurs and Everton over the last couple years than there really is no reason in even bothering to try and explain it

Why do I even try to discuss Spurs on this forum

Just the mention of the name turns everyone into a blockhead

we have a closet spud...

thank you for coming out mate, that decision must have been hard all ur life, hope you don't discriminated.. they are help groups out there

I know there's a difference lol, i was just making a point.

Spurs are obviously in a better position to attract top level players.

But if Everton had similar finances i think they could attract similar level players too.

That's the main difference between the two for me, apart from Spurs contending more often in recent seasons.

actually appreciate Spurs. I dont't want them to be better than us but i think Football need clubs like this , clubs growing up and challenging for the top.

Everyone like either TOP clubs with '' great history'' either clubs like Everton, Fiorentina who are doing well but not enough to be at the top... but as soon as those clubs start geting some serious results... the mocking start

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I know there's a difference lol, i was just making a point.

Spurs are obviously in a better position to attract top level players.

But if Everton had similar finances i think they could attract similar level players too.

That's the main difference between the two for me, apart from Spurs contending more often in recent seasons.

Well of course they could, but they don't have the finances and they haven't been as successful...so its nothin but a hypothetical

Liverpool is a better comparison than Everton...

Imagine if Hughes was manager of Spuds

Spurs are a very formidable side...and being located in London is a massive pull for a lot of foreign players.

I am convinced GL would call Iniesta over-rated and average if he moved to Spurs.

Always found this London thing a load of crap..... If your good enough and you have the cash it doesn't matter where the club is based.

Also if Spurs are so formidable how comes they couldn't beat the 1 season wonders

srigooner wrote:Very passionate and I can appreciate that. Cheers to you for that. But I will not take some of those comments. See below:

Thanks, and I can appreciate the time it takes for you to respond properly, unlike 98% of the posters on this forum.

srigooner wrote:I never denied that. All I am saying is, he would have come to Arsenal when we were on the look out in previous summers. We didn't do any business then and this summer, we are already covered. That doesn't imply he doesn't like Spurs, either team was a step up for him. Again, if we were interested and needed him as a CB option, CL football would have tipped it in our favour this summer.

I understood this the first time, but yes, I don't disagree with anything here. If you were interested this summer would he have gone? I'm not sure, maybe, maybe not, no use talking about it now though, seeing as it's hypothetical, in the past, and really has no relevance here anyway.

srigooner wrote:I agree on this. Kranjcar speaking ill would have been a warning for potential signings though. The whole saga with Modric was handled rather poorly, both this summer and the previous. Again, that is not implying Spurs should just sell their star man below their evaluation. But being a little more negotiable might have done away with the entire saga, and made life easier in preseason for all of you.

I am not trolling when I say this, but after two sagas last summer, we learnt our lessons on how much they can hurt.

I can't really disagree with this either. Levy hasn't shown to treat his players in the best manners possible. I certainly think it's not a huge deal, but I'm sure it is at the very least at the back of a players mind. There have been other cases of mistreatment of players, like the ostracizing of Sahin at Madrid, but both Madrid and Tottenham will continue to get players, despite the cases. But yes I cannot disagree that it doesn't help.

srigooner wrote:Liverpool? Come on. They are atleast 2 good summers away from being in the top 4. They have been going backwards, and for their sake, I hope it takes a turn. The days when they were serious rivals were much better than having to deal with some cash bags.

I would want to say Newcastle, but their stinginess makes me wonder sometimes. I am sure Mole would agree on this.

Liverpool might not have been doing well recently, and their transfers haven't been fantastic either, they've been plain out bad in some cases. But I can commend them in seeing that they aren't progressing like they should be at a club, addressing it, and now they are trying to fix it. We're not talking about success here per se, we are talking about ambition. Liverpool has the ambition to be a big club again, rather than just a big name, and right now I see them doing more about it than anyone else outside the top 4, and even Arsenal inside the top 4. I guess you can say Chelsea, but them spending big is normal for them, it's hardly ambitious anymore. I agree with Newcastle's stinginess.

srigooner wrote:This argument really ticks me off now. We would not spend bucketloads, because we don't have bucketloads in the first place. We are heavily reliant on our matchday revenues and that isn't going to change till our long term sponsorship deals run out. Those deals were needed to finance the new stadium, and the annual debt payments for the staidum also is a drain on our resources.

You do have money to spend. Arsenal knows it, Arsene knows it, we know it. No you can't spend like Chelsea, but that doesn't mean you have to be like Newcastle either. I commend Arsenal in their activeness in looking for youth and developing their own players like that, while being well off financially and not spending a lot of money, it's a great philosophy and you guys are (to some extent) very successful with it- and in that sense both Arsenal and Wenger are geniuses. However, at some point Arsenal needs to spend money. You're a top club, a prestigious club, you have a large fanbase, and are well off financially, buy a top player or two, and make a proper title challenge. Even Spurs last year looked to challenge the title at one point until their fall from grace. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money, or spend money to get trophies. Chelsea and Man City can tell you that's true.

srigooner wrote:I am not saying we are without fault. We made two big mistakes - letting players run down their deals and having deadwood on high wages. Combine that with the number of season long injuries to key players and you have a trophyless period.

But we have persevered to stay in top flight and CL. Despite a lack of trophies, we have built our fan base and philosophy with good club management through times of financial constraints. We are a successful club, whether you admit it or not, and whether we win trophies or not. Not saying we are okay with 4th place trophies - rather, saying that we are okay with that in this transition phase.

How long does this transition phase last? Because it's been a while. You are a top club (which is partially the...problem if you can say it's one) and most that is written here is written by me directly above this quote

srigooner wrote:Btw, we signed those players you mentioned for a combined figure of around 40 million. We spent that money from what we saved through the years, not after generating it from Pursie/Song sales. A bulk of what we got for Fabregas & Ca$hri was spent in that last day market dash last summer.

What I would say here has already been elaborated upon. BTW you should take that money you're getting from selling players, and buy new top players with it, in addition to the money you have. That's what Spurs are doing now, and I very much hope that Modric replacement is at Modric's level at least, it would be a shame if it wasn't, but you can already tell Spurs are looking for a player that good to replace him, which is ambition.

srigooner wrote: Again, it is not enough to be linked with top players if you can't finish some of those deals. If you feel you have the money to bid for them, then have the convincing power to get them to join as well. If you want to talk about 'ambition' and take a dig at Arsenal selling star players, why are you selling your arguably best player? Clearly you aren't being any different?

Spurs have unsettled players just like you guys do. Modric is one of them, and we are going to offload him, but the difference between Spurs and Arsenal is (and I've already said this), Spurs are already looking to replace him with someone as good as him, did that money from Fabregas and Ca$hri get spent on someone as good as either of them? Not really, but Cazorla is a step forward, in the right direction.

srigooner wrote:We manage to move past players being c*nts and create new stars to take us forward. We try to get the best deals possible within the limits of our financial muscle for players coming in. To say that this is reflecting negatively on our ambition is absolute rubbish. Rewind January 2011 when we were in good stead for a quadruple before f*cking it all up.

We had trouble last summer with those two sagas but did our best to recover and make it into CL. THAT was being ambitious too. We again had a couple of players who wanted to be bigger than the club and we sold them on fairly good prices to move forward again.

Just because we sell players does not imply we have no ambition. Just as being linked with a player does not show ambition. True ambition is when you do something about it.

I'm not saying that because you're selling players doesn't mean that you have no ambition. But you've lost how many captains recently? How many of your best players have left recently? Spurs may lose Modric, but they're keeping Bale, and they look like they're going to keep VDV as well, despite not even making the CL. The lack of trophies and the lack of ambition has been a reason these players have left Arsenal, and for that reason I think it shows a lack of ambition, not because you sell players. And are you doing anything about it? Not really, that's the thing. You guys have been selling top players and replacing them with decent players and finishing in 3rd or 4th ever year, trophyless, that's a compliment to how well run the club is, but it also shows a lack of ambition, doesn't it? You can say it's a transitional phase, but it seems to be a long one, and you haven't really done anything to show you'll get out of it.

Meanwhile Spurs are doing something about it. We haven't just been linked to players, we fired our head coach who has been quite successful with Spurs recently for a younger, more ambitious coach to take on a new project, fill the team with youth, change the way Spurs play, and make the necessary steps to be at the top of the EPL again. Spurs are spending money, and being linked with all sorts of players because they have the ambition and they are trying to make something happen. Sure there will be rejections, there will be all kinds of deals where Spurs are priced out of a move, but that's the reality for a club like Spurs or any club not owned by oil. But they're doing their best to be at the top of the EPL again, and I don't think anyone can deny that. Just because you are rejected does not mean you are not doing anything about it, does it?

Once again though, rejection doesn't mean much, i'll take bids and rejections any day over no activity, which is where Spurs are right now.

srigooner wrote: PS: I know I trolled in my earlier posts, but this one is a lot more sincere and respectful of your position this summer. Unlike most chavs, I am not writing off AVB as a manager yet either - go dig up my post in 'rival watch' thread in arsenal section when AVB signed for you guys. So please, instead of using a 'haters gonna hate' cliche, try to have a reasonable argument.

And sorry to the mods for the massive off-topic comments. The ones on topic were troll-worthy anyway

You were hardly trolling, IMO. It's not like Mole's posts in this thread which seem to have a trolling feel to it. And my haters gonna hate comment isn't towards you it is towards everyone else in this thread, really- who don't have a reasonable argument (so why counter them with a reasonable argument?).

These comments aren't off topic by the fact that the thread is a troll thread in the first place anyway.

Aahhhh that was a long post. I seriously appreciate the effort though.

Spurs haven't been a top club though. They've been an underdog club in recent years imo.

@ CBarca;

You do have money to spend. Arsenal knows it, Arsene knows it, we know it. No you can't spend like Chelsea, but that doesn't mean you have to be like Newcastle either. I commend Arsenal in their activeness in looking for youth and developing their own players like that, while being well off financially and not spending a lot of money, it's a great philosophy and you guys are (to some extent) very successful with it- and in that sense both Arsenal and Wenger are geniuses. However, at some point Arsenal needs to spend money. You're a top club, a prestigious club, you have a large fanbase, and are well off financially, buy a top player or two, and make a proper title challenge. Even Spurs last year looked to challenge the title at one point until their fall from grace. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money, or spend money to get trophies. Chelsea and Man City can tell you that's true.

Apologies but you seem relatively ignorant to Arsenal's financial circumstances..
There was a well known, detailed and excellent blog written on Arsenal's financial situation by "The Swiss Rambler" who you may or may not be familiar with. I suggest if you are not familiar with him you can look him up by googling "Arsenal's Mystery Dance".
He writes interesting blogs pertaining to football from a business perspective.

In it you will find accurate statistics and a solid analysis of those figures. You seemed to ignore my post bringing up the fact we purchased a new 400 million pound stadium less than 10 years ago. Until that debt is paid off, we ARE still in a transitional period. Contrary to what you posted here;

I'm not saying that because you're selling players doesn't mean that you have no ambition. But you've lost how many captains recently? How many of your best players have left recently? Spurs may lose Modric, but they're keeping Bale, and they look like they're going to keep VDV as well, despite not even making the CL. The lack of trophies and the lack of ambition has been a reason these players have left Arsenal, and for that reason I think it shows a lack of ambition, not because you sell players. And are you doing anything about it? Not really, that's the thing. You guys have been selling top players and replacing them with decent players and finishing in 3rd or 4th ever year, trophyless, that's a compliment to how well run the club is, but it also shows a lack of ambition, doesn't it? You can say it's a transitional phase, but it seems to be a long one, and you haven't really done anything to show you'll get out of it.

I am somewhat on the fence about how our board is operating, I think there are arguments to both our sustainable structure and the structure adopted by that of likes of your Chelsea's and City's who rely heavily on foreign investment. What I do know however is what model is more economically responsible and more ethical. I can also tell you that the model appears to have the intent to benefit the club's future - I would not deny the possibility that it is also purely in the interest of shareholders. Short term cash injections do not guarantee future sustainability of a club at all and in fact have potentially devastating consequences.

I think that your statement that we don't put forward squads capable of winning trophies is incorrect. The fact that we havent does not necessarily make it so. We had a bad start to last season and lost two star players, we finished 3rd behind two strong Manchester sides who posted high point tallies of 89 respectively.

We are now coming to the end of the transitional period, where our long-term sponsorship deals which are abysmal in comparison with other top clubs will end and we will generate more commercial revenue. Our current equitable wage structure is under review and that should see stronger retention of star players is it is modified.

In summation and in the interest of bringing tottenham back into the equation which is more pertinent to the thread. I would like to refer you to the following figures;

Net Spend (Last Five Years)

Arsenal: Net spend of £31,350,000 / Per Season: £6,270,000
Manchester City: Net spend of £428,370,000 / Per Season: £85,674,000
Chelsea: Net spend of £155,900,000 / Per Season: £31,180,000
Manchester United: Net spend of £51,600,000 / Per Season: £10,320,000
Liverpool: Net spend of £83,310,000 / Per Season: £16,662,000
Tottenham: Net spend of £73,200,000 / Per Season: £14,640,000

Presuming you understand why I regard Manchester City as an exception.. I think this proves unquestionably that your notion of "Ambition" (spending copious amounts on transfer's) does not necessarily guarantee you success.

I just read through CBarca's reply to me and Peccadillo has done a truly admirable job of responding to the comments. There is very little that I have to add to that.

Spurs have unsettled players just like you guys do. Modric is one of them, and we are going to offload him, but the difference between Spurs and Arsenal is (and I've already said this), Spurs are already looking to replace him with someone as good as him, did that money from Fabregas and Ca$hri get spent on someone as good as either of them? Not really, but Cazorla is a step forward, in the right direction.

We did look for replacements for Cas$hri and Fabregas. Our summer took a huge hit because investing money in a player to replace them, when there was still no certainty that they would leave, would have left us overstocked. Refer our links to Mata last summer.

We had to wait for Barca to meet valuation of Cesc to atleast some reasonable level. You lot took long enough and I still feel we got lowballed because you were the only club in contention and we were selling to accomodate the player's desire to return home. If you had just stumped the cash we wanted, like you did in case of Song, instead of trying to taint us in the media and cause all the bad blood, then our summer might have been a lot easier.

As pointed out by Peccadillo, without that cash, we couldn't table our bid for Mata. Enter Chelsea, and he is gone.

Ca$hri was sold days before the game at Old Trafford. Man City tapped him up all summer and eventually paid up extra to keep us from reporting them to the FA. Rewind through our preseason games last summer. We gave him the advanced midfield role of Cesc that he craved for, to give him an extra incentive to sign a new contract. He chose to ignore his desire for that role to choose the bench-winger role and more money at Citeh. Besides, he was meh in AM in preseason anyway.

We were left with 3 days to salvage our season, after the OT game. We did well to find what we could in the market in that time. Benayoun conributed well once he got into the team. Santos endeared himself after his second half performance against Chelsea. Arteta - no need to say anything here. Gervinho did the job of replacing Ca$hri (we signed him BEFORE we sold Ca$hri, as a replacement).

As I said, we made mistakes, and our financial situation hasn't been very helpful. But we have learned from them. We have been active in pre-emptive replacements this summer.

So please, don't tell me that based on just last summer, you are going to conclude our lack of ambition. I would have to put you in the same 98% of posters that you mention, if you are going to base your arguments on the rubbish media spews in the daily tabloids and 'pundits' spew on TV.

Peccadillo wrote: Apologies but you seem relatively ignorant to Arsenal's financial circumstances..
There was a well known, detailed and excellent blog written on Arsenal's financial situation by "The Swiss Rambler" who you may or may not be familiar with. I suggest if you are not familiar with him you can look him up by googling "Arsenal's Mystery Dance".
He writes interesting blogs pertaining to football from a business perspective.

In it you will find accurate statistics and a solid analysis of those figures. You seemed to ignore my post bringing up the fact we purchased a new 400 million pound stadium less than 10 years ago. Until that debt is paid off, we ARE still in a transitional period.

I am, I am not an Arsenal fan so I'm (while not completely ignorant) relatively ignorant as to how the financial situation is at Arsenal, thanks for the reading material, I will be sure to check it out. Perhaps I'm wrong when I say that you have the finances to throw money at the market, but for some reason, I don't think I am, especially when you compare Arsenal's debt to other clubs, but I'll check it out. The part in red is a good point.

Peccadillo wrote: I think that your statement that we don't put forward squads capable of winning trophies is incorrect. The fact that we haven't does not necessarily make it so.

Now here I must disagree. Every year I look at Arsenal's squad and every year I see a team that just doesn't look like it has that extra something that makes you win the EPL, and I can say the same for Spurs. Injuries don't help, and there are other factors that come into play, but I just don't know. Surely if you are churning out squads capable of winning trophies every year, you would win a trophy? I guess the key word here though is capable, and I think that Arsenal do seem fairly capable each year of winning some kind of trophy, so I guess I can't really disagree there, if that is exactly what you are speaking of.

Peccadillo wrote: We are now coming to the end of the transitional period, where our long-term sponsorship deals which are abysmal in comparison with other top clubs will end and we will generate more commercial revenue. Our current equitable wage structure is under review and that should see stronger retention of star players is it is modified.

Well I do look forward to seeing if this is true. Nothing to say here other than we'll wait and see. I on the other hand am very excited with the direction Spurs seem to be taking in the next couple years, which is why I was so happy when 'Arry was sacked and AVB given the head coaching job. It will be exciting to see how both Arsenal and Spurs will do in the near future given Spurs new 'project' if you will, and Arsenal's 'transitional phase' coming to an end.

As for the figures, you'll see that every club there has spent more than Arsenal per year, and every team there has also been more successful in terms of trophies in the last 6 years or so. In the case of Spurs though, I can agree that Arsenal have seen more overall success. However those figures do not at all overwhelmingly support your concept that money does not mean success. And surely spending money does not necessarily mean success, that would be a foolish thing to say (that splashing cash and buying players willy nilly brings success), it is smart spending of money, look at Newcastle, or Man United for example. If I haven't made that clear enough, my apologies. I would always assume when that if a club is spending money, they're doing it responsibly.

If you think I am criticizing the way Arsenal is run, you don't understand me right, but I can maintain that while it is economically responsible, that does not equate to ambition. No, it does not.

EDIT: And for some reason Srigooner thinks I am basing this only on last summer? That is an example... surely you have seen that I have been talking in years, rather than...year? But I do think last summer is a very good example. This summer can also be used, and it will be interesting to see if Arsenal replaces Song.

if you are going to base your arguments on the rubbish media spews in the daily tabloids and 'pundits' spew on TV.

What? I don't read daily tabloids nor do I listen to pundits on TV. I live in the US, I don't have easy access to either of those, and I don't spend my time with tabloids, or pundits for that matter.

Well you took up the example of last summer and I clarified why your argument that it serves as an example for lack of ambition is not justified. I don't think I have left much room for doubt in my previous post.

And I am not suggesting that you read tabloids or listen to pundits, but I can see the same reasoning in your posts questiong our ambition as well. Maybe you have independently come to the same conclusion as these people have done over the years in predicting our annual doom & gloom. But in the same way as their reasoning is based on a flimsy understanding of our situation and finances, so is yours. I can accept that you don't follow Arsenal, but that also means you can't be a judge on our ambition, or lack of it thereof, when you don't have a view to the entire landscape!


EDIT: Since you brought up this summer:
* Pursie questioned our ambition following the departure of key players, who we replaced with emergency buys.
* We were proactive in buying two strikers to replace him before his statement questioning the club.
* Reports suggested he was looking forward to a season with these signings. Wenger pulled him out of training just before the Köln game to tell him he will be sold. We decided to flog him off, because he was a disrespectful jerk. I wonder if ManYoo would have paid him 235k p/w when he was 30 next summer.
* Cazorla (!) is a great indication of us being truly ambitious. Oh I didn't mention that we were close to signing him last summer before then cash-bags Malaga gazumped us, not very different from the Mata-Chelsea case, while we continued to wait for Barca to up their offer ?
* We sold Song with 3 years left on his contract. Please read up on the reasons for his sale. And it is no indication of a lack of ambition, because despite his 'creativity', Song was a player neglecting his role in the team. You can also look up the statistics comparing Song's defensive attributes in the last 3 years and the stats comparing him with Sahin, Arteta and Cazorla defensively. We are better off if we can replace him with Sahin and/or M'Vila/Capoue with Coquelin stepping up. No 'lack of ambition' there.

I'm not going to pretend I know Arsenal's inner workings, I respect Arsenal but as a fan of Barcelona and to a lesser extent, Tottenham, it's understandable I don't particularly enjoy your club. So yes I will admit I don't have the view of an entire landscape.

But a quick question, do you need to view the whole entire landscape to accurately judge something? It helps, but I wouldn't say it's necessary. I think saying I don't have a right to judge Arsenal's situation because I don't know the inner workings is wrong. Especially when none of us, you and I both don't know the full 'landscape'. Unless you work directly with Arsenals finances, yes you do know more than me, but you don't have the full 'landscape' either.

I'm enjoying this too much. It's like Goal.com lithium forums, it really is. I have to thank both you and Peccadillo for being such good fun to talk with.

CBarca wrote:I'm not going to pretend I know Arsenal's inner workings, I respect Arsenal but as a fan of Barcelona and to a lesser extent, Tottenham, it's understandable I don't particularly enjoy your club. So yes I will admit I don't have the view of an entire landscape.

Trust me when I say this, but Barca was the closest there was to a 'second team' for me before 2010. It changed that summer. And I can never see Barca the same way after last summer - so much so that I can stomach Mourinho for the sake of seeing Barca lose. I will not apologize for this, as a gooner, I have every right to have my feelings. Nor do I approve of Barca players being disrespectful of other clubs by talking about other players fitting in. We taught Cesc well, and it showed when he said 'I will not speak about Song because it would be disrespcetful to Arsenal.' I didn't like him for leaving us, but he gained some of my respect this day. Maybe Biscuits and Iniesta have to learn the good things from him here.

But I digress massively here. Obviously, I am not from London and the only real 'rivals' I have known are clubs I have seen Arsenal compete with over the years. But Tottenham has a special place reserved in my hatelist, because the fans harbour hate towards what I love. A mutual reciprocation can only be expected, eh?

CBarca wrote:
But a quick question, do you need to view the whole entire landscape to accurately judge something? It helps, but I wouldn't say it's necessary. I think saying I don't have a right to judge Arsenal's situation because I don't know the inner workings is wrong. Especially when none of us, you and I both don't know the full 'landscape'. Unless you work directly with Arsenals finances, yes you do know more than me, but you don't have the full 'landscape' either.

I'm enjoying this too much. It's like Goal.com lithium forums, it really is. I have to thank both you and Peccadillo for being such good fun to talk with.

Nope, but as a person who spends a lot more time observing this club, I can say that I have a somwhat better idea? Because I am not just reading the news and tabloids and blogs, but also using my observations and experiences as a gooner over the last 10 or so years? Or are you suggesting all that counts for jackall? I would be very offended to hear that, when personally, I feel that I know more about this club than the average season ticket holder.

And without a view of the entire landscape, you are only making biased judgements. With a relatively better view and deeper understanding, I see no reason why my judgement should be for the worse. If you can prove that the logic in the Swiss Ramble post is flawed, then I will believe that you have a better judgement on Arsenal's finances. Till then, as a person who has read, re-read and digested every word in that masterpiece article with good logic, I have the right to claim that I have the better view to the landscape.

Ofcourse, this is not a question of who is right or a test of the bigger ego, but a discussion of reason. Like I said, give me what you have and I will give you the truth, as I know it. If you can give an irrefutable point based on logic and understanding, I will concede that you are right about it.

PS: I always enjoy a good discussion, even if it is with a Spur/Barca fan Oh btw, I edited my last post to respond to your comment on this summer.