Re: Luisito

by Red Alert Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:08 am

Don't call me James wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:Does anybody think this 80m value is spot on?

If the biting incident didn't happen then I would absolutely say no. But it seems about right. It's still around that world record fee.

The bite means absolutely NOTHING to his valuation. Clubs look to sign players with quality. Why would Barcelona be interested if this bite was such a big deal? This whole baggage determines value thing is fictional. Clubs honestly don't care. Or we wouldn't have signed him from Ajax in the first place; he was the same player.

He was brought up on the streets. He's shown time and time again he's willing to do ANYTHING to get the result. Regardless if it's pull the hair of a player, bite a player, studs up challenge on a player and make it look accidental, dive to get the opposition a sending off/win a penalty, he wants nothing but to win. You can't buy that mentality. And you certainly can't find anyone at his quality that would be willing to come.

People can mention Torres and how it was good we parted ways; but it was clear injury's ruined Torres' physicality which was key to him. He also played at 50% intensity at games because he genuinely wanted to leave, had enough of the whole G+H saga and at the end left for silverware (he left at a time of a rebuilding stage under Kenny, as you should know). Suarez plays 100% EVERY single game, knock or no knock, regardless of fatigue or anything. 50m+ Sanchez or whatever may look like a good deal, but Liverpool WON'T be the club benefiting from it.

by mr-r34 Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:15 am

For me the money wouldn't make much of a difference, i think it'll be hard to replace the 3rd best player in the world, honestly who is even available. Suarez is a once in a while player and i doubt whoever we buy sill come close.

by Art Morte Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:32 pm

There's no way to replace Suarez like-for-like or quality-for-quality, the only way of replacing him is to do what Tottenham did with the Bale money and try to make your team all-round stronger - but obviously doing that more successfully than Tottenham did.

by McAgger Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:48 pm

mr-r34 wrote:For me the money wouldn't make much of a difference, i think it'll be hard to replace the 3rd best player in the world, honestly who is even available. Suarez is a once in a while player and i doubt whoever we buy sill come close.

+1

You're speaking my mind lately Mr-r Proud

by iftikhar Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:43 pm

mr-r34 wrote:For me the money wouldn't make much of a difference, i think it'll be hard to replace the 3rd best player in the world, honestly who is even available. Suarez is a once in a while player and i doubt whoever we buy sill come close.

by Adit Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:57 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:RedO is correct. The reasons why Suarez is being linked more to us then he was with Real Madrid last season is due to his father in law living in Barcelona and his agent being Pep brother aka a Catalan. I'm not saying were not interest, but lets be honest Liverpool won't budget for anything else then 80M or Sanchez in the deal. Where as Barcelona will want to spend as less as possible and were known for dragging transfer on and not getting our targets aka Thiago Silva and Luiz for example.

I disagree. Reason why Barcelona are linked to Suarez more is because despite Suarez's get me out pleas, Madrid didnt make a move officially,we didnt want him. This time Barcelona are pushing for Liverpool to negotiate if news papers are to be believed.

by mr-r34 Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:26 pm

Don't call me James wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:For me the money wouldn't make much of a difference, i think it'll be hard to replace the 3rd best player in the world, honestly who is even available. Suarez is a once in a while player and i doubt whoever we buy sill come close.

+1

You're speaking my mind lately Mr-r

by Red Alert Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:23 am

Thanks for all the memories Luisito. Sad

by mr-r34 Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:32 am

The funny thing with this Suarez transfer is, in now way can we come out on top, i guess we can only have faith in the lads to do what they can and trust in Rodgers to pull something out of the bag.

On a side note, if he does leave, what would hurt more this transfer or Torres transfer.

Has to be this one for me considering the ability of Suarez.

I think if this transfer goes through, once Stevie g retires I'll give up on loving football players, it's emotionally too hard.

by Red Alert Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:39 am

Suarez will hurt a lot more.

Again, Torres faded in Roy's last season and wasn't playing for Liverpool anymore clearly disillusioned of the fact that we turned into a mid-table club. He also put in a transfer request and left for Chelsea from all teams on DEADLINE day which forced us into signing Andy Carroll for 35m (which lead to Downing for 20 etc).

Suarez was playing out of his skin in a title race, fighting for a 7th spot over Everton, pretty much every minute on a pitch he was doing whatever it takes to make Liverpool the victors; he dragged us from medicriocity and made us one of the better teams in England. Suarez leaving whilst damaging Liverpool, has left early and gives Liverpool almost 2 months to find a replacement even though we as a club won't. He's definitely leaving in better circumstances. Would also argue he outperformed Torres at Liverpool, given Fernando played in a consistent CL side and Suarez played in a team that finished 7th twice.

by McAgger Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:21 pm

The latest rumor is that £71.4m fee has been agreed. Getting robbed ffs.

by mr-r34 Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:02 am

Don't call me James wrote:The latest rumor is that £71.4m fee has been agreed. Getting robbed ffs.

FML, going into hiding for a week once that happens, how JWH has bent over and let that happen is beyond me.

by McAgger Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:34 am

With regards to replacing his goals. We're definitely not going to score 101 again. Well just need players to step up

Sturridge - 20+
Sterling - 10+
Coutinho - 8+
Lallana - 10+
Gerrard - 8+
Lambert&Borini - 5+
Henderson - 5+
The rest - 10+

Give or take should give us more than 70, which is usually what's needed for top 4.

by Arquitecto Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:51 am

So I have conceded that Luis Suarez will not be an LFC player for the 2014/15 season; my thoughts about that will be posted later.

Yet where do we go from here? Was this decision based on his absurd ban or banking on a player within the apex of his prime? How (and will) we utilize the sum paid for him to splurge on a World Class signing or a multitude of lesser known players to add depth? How will this affect us? Pros? Cons? Outcomes?

Looking for thoughts from RedOranje, Red Alert, Etc in particular.

by DeletedUser#1 Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:11 pm

Embarrassing people are talking about Top 4 again :facepalm:

I thought last season's title challenge thought you to aim big....not hang on to the top 4 crap

by donttreadonred Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:14 pm

Don't call me James wrote:With regards to replacing his goals. We're definitely not going to score 101 again. Well just need players to step up

Sturridge - 20+
Sterling - 10+
Coutinho - 8+
Lallana - 10+
Gerrard - 8+
Lambert&Borini - 5+
Henderson - 5+
The rest - 10+

Give or take should give us more than 70, which is usually what's needed for top 4.

The thing is that we don't necessarily need to replace all his goals... We need to concede fewer.

On a macro-level, if LFC scored 20 fewer goals (~80) but also conceded 10 fewer (~40), you could argue that LFC would be better off. Suarez scored a lot of goals, and he scored some that certainly gained us points. However, not all of them were crucial. Many of them were in 3-0, 4-0, and 5-0 blowouts, which brings me to the micro-level analysis. LFC may actually benefit from more 1-0 or 2-0 victories, which don't require us to blow teams out of the water, but they do require us to avoid giving up 2 and 3 goals to the opposing team.

On a player-to-player basis, I think Rodgers would take a more dispersed list of goal-scorers. As impressive as the SAS was (Sturridge and Suarez, not including Sterling for these purposes), it created anover-reliance on two players for the goal-scoring in the team. Moreover, we were forced into set-ups that put those two in the best goal-scoring positions. I think Rodgers would ideally prefer to see 4 or 5 players in double-digits rather than two players terrorizing the league.

Consider this breakdown:
CF: 20
LW: 15
RW: 15
CM (x2): 10
Rest of squad (DM, 2 CBs, 2 FBs): 10
Total=80

With a more solid defense, that could be enough...

by RedOranje Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:24 pm

Don't call me James wrote:The latest rumor is that £71.4m fee has been agreed. Getting robbed ffs.

And the latest RELIABLE reports say that Barca have agreed to meet his release clause (which is supposedly ~£75m). Can't really say we're getting robbed when they're meeting the release clause.

Arquitescu wrote:So I have conceded that Luis Suarez will not be an LFC player for the 2014/15 season; my thoughts about that will be posted later.

Yet where do we go from here? Was this decision based on his absurd ban or banking on a player within the apex of his prime? How (and will) we utilize the sum paid for him to splurge on a World Class signing or a multitude of lesser known players to add depth? How will this affect us? Pros? Cons? Outcomes?

Looking for thoughts from RedOranje, Red Alert, Etc in particular.

Barca are meeting the release clause, there's really no decision to be made other than Suarez's own.

We build up the quality in the squad from here. It is generally easier to secure a top 4 position and compete on better fronts with a better and deeper squad than with one star player (Spuds aside). Of course the flipside is that a single brilliant player can carry you to a title or trophy in a way that a deep and better squad won't necessarily. That said, Suarez's repeated antics meant that he wouldn't be available for more than a third of the season and a team simply cannot build around a player who's gone for such periods. While I'm sad to see Suarez go, I can't say I'm distraught over it. I think the club and squad may actually BENEFIT from this with the multiple fronts we'll need to compete on this coming season... assuming that we spend wisely.

Spending wisely means not wasting £20m on a CB who's had one good season or bringing in only one fullback who is objectively average and statistically no better than Flanagan. Use some of those funds to meet Sevilla's demands for Moreno (surely with ~£75m coming in we can afford to add another £4m to our bid) and aim for a top drawer already developed CB who can step right in and immediately help us improve our goals conceded stat. In attack I think we're actually alright, especially if we do still sign Markovic or Shaqiri as reliable reports are suggesting. Beyond that, use the funds for a top player if one is available such as Sanchez, Kroos, etc that look as though they'll fit the system and improve our current starting options but don't panic buy and go out spending big bucks on the first big name that comes on the market.

by Red Alert Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:48 am

Arquitescu wrote:So I have conceded that Luis Suarez will not be an LFC player for the 2014/15 season; my thoughts about that will be posted later.

Yet where do we go from here? Was this decision based on his absurd ban or banking on a player within the apex of his prime? How (and will) we utilize the sum paid for him to splurge on a World Class signing or a multitude of lesser known players to add depth? How will this affect us? Pros? Cons? Outcomes?

Looking for thoughts from RedOranje, Red Alert, Etc in particular.

Tony Evans states that the ban had little effect and that negotiations started BEFORE the world cup...

Banking on Suarez is stupid considering Liverpool is CLUELESS in the market. This committee has had ONE good window since they've been here, this window shows the continuing trend of stupidity in the Liverpool hierarchy.

We've just paid 25m for Lallana, and offered 20m for Lovren which was thankfully rejected. We're in for the likes of Bertrand ffs.

We were targeting these type of players when we WEREN'T in Europe. What happened to the "we'll sign better quality once we're in CL". And the worst part is we're overpaying to no end. Sanchez and Shaqiri are great, but from all reports I've read, Sanchez is only an alternative to Suarez. Shaqiri would be quality, but he's just been given a new contract from Bayern. Markovic is VERY RAW, you can't replace one of the best players in the world with a player that has all the potential to be great but is very inconsistent in the mean time.

Maybe if we had a competent scouting system / "transfer committee" I'd be okay with it but in reality we don't so "cashing in" is one of the stupidest things we could of done. Suarez here would of guaranteed us top 4 for a couple of seasons at least. That pays off his "cashing in" and helps Liverpool progress at the same time.

All of our rivals have IMPROVED thus far, we've just shoot ourselves in the foot and gone 10 steps back. We were lucky to finish where we did last year, and I think we've taken a CL spot for granted if we think we can do it without Luis.

People underestimate Suarez' influence on the pitch. "He scored 30 goals we just need to replace them". NO. This isn't JUST about his goals. He was never really a number 9 for us. He was the only CONSISTENT play maker in the final third. He was the ONE we ALWAYS went too when it was tough and we couldn't break a team down. He was the one that made the opposition defenders actually genuinely FEAR Liverpool Football Club. Close Suarez down and 9/10 times you'd get a positive result because there's not much else in our final third that had the balls to take on the game consistently. He was the one that made Sturridge and Sterling shine by dragging the best or even 2 defenders at the same time with him when he didn't score because of the fear he brought. He was the one that would never stop trying to get the result. He was the one that made us title challenge. He was the one that made this Liverpool team believe.

People can try and re-write history calling him a "mercenary" but he dragged us from a mid-table club and put us on the map again. And for that I thank him.

We're going to need 2-3 players to replace him, and by 2-3 players, I mean genuinely QUALITY players. Not solid to good. We need to look at our current targets and look 2-3 tiers above.

by Arquitecto Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:11 am

I have read both the requested replies from Red and Red Alert and want to sincerely thank you both for the time taken and the quality of your thoughts. Will post my review of your posts soon and none of it in retrospect to the now official departure of Suarez to Barça.

by iftikhar Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:30 am

People underestimate Suarez' influence on the pitch.

. Suarez had an 'X' factor. He could make the fans and team-mate expectant of something (good) while keeping the opponents dreading. I'm not even talking about the material contributions, but the mere psychological edge of expectations of those material contributions. Don't know if I have explained myself well enough but in Suarez we had a players who could make people dream/dread.

Another unique thing about Suarez is that he combined the work-rate of Kuyt with the creativity & proficiency of Ronaldo & Messi.

by DeletedUser#1 Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:07 pm

Teary-eyes here after reviewing all his 82 goals and reading his farewell letter. christ man

by McAgger Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:14 pm

Don't call me James wrote:I feel so deflated now that this is official. We've known for awhile it was going to happen but it's official and it's just unfair. Football is unfair. Life is unfair.

It doesn't feel nearly as bad as Torres obviously, I still very much love Luis and will probably watch most of his matches at Barca and hope he does well but there's a huge emptiness inside me now.

by iftikhar Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:35 pm

can we merge all Suarez thread into one...

Magger, would you do the honor of posting some pics...one last time...

by iftikhar Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:36 pm

by BusterLfc Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:09 pm

I've been in denial during the whole saga but now it's official

by McAgger Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:25 pm

2010-11:

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