Re: Shameful ways to win Ballon Dor

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:12 am

Gil wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Also Gil it was statistically proven that without Messi's goals and assists Barca would have finished 6th so......

You seriously think Barca are the 6th best side in Spain without Messi?

Just backs up my padding stats argument.

Without Messi, Villa, Pedro ( off form), Pique off form, Puyol injured, Abidal injured, Xavi off form, Iniesta off form and injured they probably are not far off that....

That's the reason he carried them so much last season, defensively practically all the players were injured or off form apart from Alves.

Same goes for Midfield apart from Busquets and Pedro was playing like a scrub all season and Villa was injured.

All them points together meant that Messi was basically a one man band.

if all those players were on form and fit and Messi was out then it's a different story but fact is most of Barca's team Messi a side was off form or injured.

by Arquitecto Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:13 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
When was the last time atletico won against u

They were so so so close to breaking that duck last season with Simeone until Ronaldo's amazing goals that helped us win

Atleti will never in against us, even at the start of this season where we even lost against Getafe Castilla, Atleti would never have won.

Maybe its a curse who knows

Wouldn't call it a curse its just Atletico just completely throw their mentality down the drain when playing Madrid.

Its the same with Tottenham vs United (despite the recent win).

Madrid face very little pressure against Atleti due to their past records and that Atleti literally let them walk over them despite the rivalry. Its pathetic lol

by Harmonica Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:14 am

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 5.5 shots/ goal
Cronaldo 6.9 shots/ goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists: (transfermarkt.co.uk FIFA rules)

Messi 20
Cronaldo 12

Creativity:

Messi 56 throughballs, 92 key passes (resulting in a shot)
Cronaldo 19 throughballs, 60 key passes (resulting in a shot)

Build up play:

Messi 176 dribbless
Cronaldo 73 dribbless

Lost posession:

Messi 96 dispossessed + 61 turnovers = 157 times
Cronaldo 79 dispossessed + 86 turnovers = 165 times

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 24
Cronaldo 15

Importance of stats:

Here is La Liga 11-12 without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals, and assists:

Shameful ways to win Ballon Dor - Page 3 MessiCronoLaLiga

Shameful ways to win Ballon Dor - Page 3 MessiCronoLaLiga

http://king-football.com/bb/?p=431

Messi got points for the team in 15 games, 35 overall.
Cronaldo got points for the team in 11 games, 25 overall.

Messi & Cronaldo Champions League 11-12

Goals:

Messi 14 (4 penalty)
Cronaldo 10 (2 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 4.5 shots/goal
Cronaldo 7.4 shots/goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 6/14 or 43% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 4/10 or 40% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists (transfermarkt.co.uk wider rules)

Messi 7
Cronaldo 3

Creativity

Messi 14 throughballs, 32 key passes (resulting a shot)
Cronaldo 3 throughballs, 25 key passes (resulting a shot)

Build Up Play

Messi 44 dribbles
Cronaldo 29 dribbles

Lost Possession

Messi 40 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 59
Cronaldo 20 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 39

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 8
Cronaldo 3

Importance of statistics: (without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals and assists)

1. Milan 14
2. Barcelona 10
3. Plzen 6
4. BATE 2

1. Real Madrid 16
2. Lyon 9
3. Ajax 8
4. Dinamo 0

Messi gave 6 points in 3 group games and would have lost 1st position. Would have lost against Milan.
Cronaldo gave 2 points in 1 group game. Would have lost against ZSKA.

Messi against top opposition 11-12

Real Madrid 3+5@6
Valencia 4+3@4
Malaga 6+0@2
Atletico Madrid 4+1@2
Milan 3+3@4
Leverkusen 6+1@2
Chelsea 0+1@2
Porto 1+1@1
Santos 2+0@1

Overall 29+15@24 against top opposition, 1.83 G+A per game.
Overall 73+35@60 against everyone, 1.80 G+A per game.

Cronaldo against top opposition 11-12

Barcelona 4+0@6
Valencia 1+0@2
Malaga 3+1@4
Atletico Madrid 5+2@2
Lyon 2+1@2
Ajax 1+1@1
Dynamo 0+0@1
ZSKA 3+0@2
Bayern Munich 2+1@2

Overall 21+6@22 against top opposition, 1.23 G+A per game.
Overall 60+15@55 against everyone, 1.36 G+A per game.

Messi was actually better against top opposition, Cronaldo unsurprisingly worse. The same applies pretty much in their careers, Cronaldo is a big game flop.

Players scoring their own penalties 11-12 shows the difference of quality of players and teams in general

Shameful ways to win Ballon Dor - Page 3 Di-NRY9

Shameful ways to win Ballon Dor - Page 3 Di-NRY9

- Higuain and Benzema were actually more effective than Cronaldo and were involved in 1.3x goals more than Cronaldo.
- Messi were carrying Barcelona, and were involved in 1.6x goals more than Xavi and Fabregas together, 1.48x more than Cronaldo.
- As a team Madrid were better, as a player Messi was far, far ahead of others. And Ballon d'Or is a invidual prize, not a team prize.

10-11 compared to 11-12

2010-2011
Messi: Supercopa, La Liga, Uefa Champions League, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer, 53+28 1.56 (G+A)/90min

> most definitely

Cronaldo: Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, European Golden Boot, 53+18 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi: Supercopa, Uefa Supercup, Fifa Club World Cup, Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer/ Top Assister, European Golden Boot/ Top Assister, bunch of records + WR of scoring in one season club and club + international (73 and 82), 73+36 or 1.86 (G+A)/90min and 82+41

> most definitely

Cronaldo: La Liga, 60+15 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min and 66+17

----------------------------------

Cronaldo actually was just as effective as last season, but Messi was better in last season, and even better this season.

2010-2011
Messi 1.56 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi 1.86 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2012 Stats

Shameful ways to win Ballon Dor - Page 3 Di-DVGV

Shameful ways to win Ballon Dor - Page 3 Di-DVGV

Messi was so far ahead of Cronaldo individually, that's it's not even funny. Well actually it's funny as hell how Cronaldo is even compared to Messi.

by RealGunner Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:14 am

Gil wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Also Gil it was statistically proven that without Messi's goals and assists Barca would have finished 6th so......

You seriously think Barca are the 6th best side in Spain without Messi?

Just backs up my padding stats argument.

Stop using silly terms like " padding stats " in a serious debate please. Keep the drivel like that in the chat

by the xcx Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:15 am

Messi was a lone forward for Barca last season. All attack and final end product came from Missi tbh. Not so hard to break records if you are an only forward for your club. Just look at RVP Laughing

by _LMG_10_ Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:17 am

at this thread. It turned into a messi vs ronaldo thread as usual

And ppl STILL don't understand that the ballon d'or is an award for INDIVIDUAL brilliance, not team trophies ffs.

There should be a giant sticky in the forum that states this, so we avoid useless posts from delusional ronaldo lovers

by halamadrid2 Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:20 am

Arquitecto wrote:Wouldn't call it a curse its just Atletico just completely throw their mentality down the drain when playing Madrid.

Its the same with Tottenham vs United (despite the recent win).

Madrid face very little pressure against Atleti due to their past records and that Atleti literally let them walk over them despite the rivalry. Its pathetic lol

They were quite aggressive and wanted to win last time, Falcao scored a brilliant goal and it stood like that until the 60th min until we got a freekick and Ronaldo scored and then scored another through a long shot, you can't blame their players for that tbh

They did their best, also the game before they were leading until Courtois got red carded and we won, i mean they have been quite unlucky against us tbh

by VanDeezNuts Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:27 am

i am not seeing how this is shameful. or news for that matter.

every coach in the history of the world will standup for their player if said player is up for an award.

when tito is asked about who should win is it also going to be a crime if he says messi, or if conte is asked and he says pirlo?

i mean come on this isnt even thread worthy, this happens all the time.

mourinho is both his coach and countryman it doesnt take a scientist to determine there will be bias.

by Gil Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:31 am

RealGunner wrote:
Gil wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Also Gil it was statistically proven that without Messi's goals and assists Barca would have finished 6th so......

You seriously think Barca are the 6th best side in Spain without Messi?

Just backs up my padding stats argument.

Stop using silly terms like " padding stats " in a serious debate please. Keep the drivel like that in the chat

It's not drivel though.

Barca went from the greatest club side of all time entirely based on ball movement and unselfishness to a team built towards maximizing Messi's talents.

You'd expect the likes of Iniesta, Xavi, Cesc, Villa, Ibra, Alexis etc stats to increase at such a club but it's the exact opposite.

The norm for every player is to improve when surrounded by better players, no?.....but Barcelona seems to be the exception. Why is that?

If someone can explain why that is in detail, I promise to end all the stat-padding theories.

by kiranr Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:37 am

Because a player's worth is not determined by his stats. Are you serious Gil with that question Gil? You think a player can improve only if he improves his stats?

by aford92 Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:39 am

jiopsi wrote:Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 5.5 shots/ goal
Cronaldo 6.9 shots/ goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists: (transfermarkt.co.uk FIFA rules)

Messi 20
Cronaldo 12

Creativity:

Messi 56 throughballs, 92 key passes (resulting in a shot)
Cronaldo 19 throughballs, 60 key passes (resulting in a shot)

Build up play:

Messi 176 dribbless
Cronaldo 73 dribbless

Lost posession:

Messi 96 dispossessed + 61 turnovers = 157 times
Cronaldo 79 dispossessed + 86 turnovers = 165 times

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 24
Cronaldo 15

Importance of stats:

Here is La Liga 11-12 without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals, and assists:

http://king-football.com/bb/?p=431

Messi got points for the team in 15 games, 35 overall.
Cronaldo got points for the team in 11 games, 25 overall.

Messi & Cronaldo Champions League 11-12

Goals:

Messi 14 (4 penalty)
Cronaldo 10 (2 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 4.5 shots/goal
Cronaldo 7.4 shots/goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 6/14 or 43% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 4/10 or 40% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists (transfermarkt.co.uk wider rules)

Messi 7
Cronaldo 3

Creativity

Messi 14 throughballs, 32 key passes (resulting a shot)
Cronaldo 3 throughballs, 25 key passes (resulting a shot)

Build Up Play

Messi 44 dribbles
Cronaldo 29 dribbles

Lost Possession

Messi 40 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 59
Cronaldo 20 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 39

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 8
Cronaldo 3

Importance of statistics: (without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals and assists)

1. Milan 14
2. Barcelona 10
3. Plzen 6
4. BATE 2

1. Real Madrid 16
2. Lyon 9
3. Ajax 8
4. Dinamo 0

Messi gave 6 points in 3 group games and would have lost 1st position. Would have lost against Milan.
Cronaldo gave 2 points in 1 group game. Would have lost against ZSKA.

Messi against top opposition 11-12

Real Madrid 3+5@6
Valencia 4+3@4
Malaga 6+0@2
Atletico Madrid 4+1@2
Milan 3+3@4
Leverkusen 6+1@2
Chelsea 0+1@2
Porto 1+1@1
Santos 2+0@1

Overall 29+15@24 against top opposition, 1.83 G+A per game.
Overall 73+35@60 against everyone, 1.80 G+A per game.

Cronaldo against top opposition 11-12

Barcelona 4+0@6
Valencia 1+0@2
Malaga 3+1@4
Atletico Madrid 5+2@2
Lyon 2+1@2
Ajax 1+1@1
Dynamo 0+0@1
ZSKA 3+0@2
Bayern Munich 2+1@2

Overall 21+6@22 against top opposition, 1.23 G+A per game.
Overall 60+15@55 against everyone, 1.36 G+A per game.

Messi was actually better against top opposition, Cronaldo unsurprisingly worse. The same applies pretty much in their careers, Cronaldo is a big game flop.

Players scoring their own penalties 11-12 shows the difference of quality of players and teams in general

- Higuain and Benzema were actually more effective than Cronaldo and were involved in 1.3x goals more than Cronaldo.
- Messi were carrying Barcelona, and were involved in 1.6x goals more than Xavi and Fabregas together, 1.48x more than Cronaldo.
- As a team Madrid were better, as a player Messi was far, far ahead of others. And Ballon d'Or is a invidual prize, not a team prize.

10-11 compared to 11-12

2010-2011
Messi: Supercopa, La Liga, Uefa Champions League, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer, 53+28 1.56 (G+A)/90min

> most definitely

Cronaldo: Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, European Golden Boot, 53+18 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi: Supercopa, Uefa Supercup, Fifa Club World Cup, Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer/ Top Assister, European Golden Boot/ Top Assister, bunch of records + WR of scoring in one season club and club + international (73 and 82), 73+36 or 1.86 (G+A)/90min and 82+41

> most definitely

Cronaldo: La Liga, 60+15 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min and 66+17

----------------------------------

Cronaldo actually was just as effective as last season, but Messi was better in last season, and even better this season.

2010-2011
Messi 1.56 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi 1.86 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2012 Stats

Messi was so far ahead of Cronaldo individually, that's it's not even funny. Well actually it's funny as hell how Cronaldo is even compared to Messi.

Pretty much ends the Messi vs. Ronaldo debate for this season. Messi wins in almost every category and considering that the Balon D'or is an individual award, Messi should win hands down.

by Donuts Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:47 am

jiopsi wrote:Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 5.5 shots/ goal
Cronaldo 6.9 shots/ goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists: (transfermarkt.co.uk FIFA rules)

Messi 20
Cronaldo 12

Creativity:

Messi 56 throughballs, 92 key passes (resulting in a shot)
Cronaldo 19 throughballs, 60 key passes (resulting in a shot)

Build up play:

Messi 176 dribbless
Cronaldo 73 dribbless

Lost posession:

Messi 96 dispossessed + 61 turnovers = 157 times
Cronaldo 79 dispossessed + 86 turnovers = 165 times

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 24
Cronaldo 15

Importance of stats:

Here is La Liga 11-12 without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals, and assists:

http://king-football.com/bb/?p=431

Messi got points for the team in 15 games, 35 overall.
Cronaldo got points for the team in 11 games, 25 overall.

Messi & Cronaldo Champions League 11-12

Goals:

Messi 14 (4 penalty)
Cronaldo 10 (2 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 4.5 shots/goal
Cronaldo 7.4 shots/goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 6/14 or 43% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 4/10 or 40% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists (transfermarkt.co.uk wider rules)

Messi 7
Cronaldo 3

Creativity

Messi 14 throughballs, 32 key passes (resulting a shot)
Cronaldo 3 throughballs, 25 key passes (resulting a shot)

Build Up Play

Messi 44 dribbles
Cronaldo 29 dribbles

Lost Possession

Messi 40 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 59
Cronaldo 20 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 39

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 8
Cronaldo 3

Importance of statistics: (without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals and assists)

1. Milan 14
2. Barcelona 10
3. Plzen 6
4. BATE 2

1. Real Madrid 16
2. Lyon 9
3. Ajax 8
4. Dinamo 0

Messi gave 6 points in 3 group games and would have lost 1st position. Would have lost against Milan.
Cronaldo gave 2 points in 1 group game. Would have lost against ZSKA.

Messi against top opposition 11-12

Real Madrid 3+5@6
Valencia 4+3@4
Malaga 6+0@2
Atletico Madrid 4+1@2
Milan 3+3@4
Leverkusen 6+1@2
Chelsea 0+1@2
Porto 1+1@1
Santos 2+0@1

Overall 29+15@24 against top opposition, 1.83 G+A per game.
Overall 73+35@60 against everyone, 1.80 G+A per game.

Cronaldo against top opposition 11-12

Barcelona 4+0@6
Valencia 1+0@2
Malaga 3+1@4
Atletico Madrid 5+2@2
Lyon 2+1@2
Ajax 1+1@1
Dynamo 0+0@1
ZSKA 3+0@2
Bayern Munich 2+1@2

Overall 21+6@22 against top opposition, 1.23 G+A per game.
Overall 60+15@55 against everyone, 1.36 G+A per game.

Messi was actually better against top opposition, Cronaldo unsurprisingly worse. The same applies pretty much in their careers, Cronaldo is a big game flop.

Players scoring their own penalties 11-12 shows the difference of quality of players and teams in general

- Higuain and Benzema were actually more effective than Cronaldo and were involved in 1.3x goals more than Cronaldo.
- Messi were carrying Barcelona, and were involved in 1.6x goals more than Xavi and Fabregas together, 1.48x more than Cronaldo.
- As a team Madrid were better, as a player Messi was far, far ahead of others. And Ballon d'Or is a invidual prize, not a team prize.

10-11 compared to 11-12

2010-2011
Messi: Supercopa, La Liga, Uefa Champions League, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer, 53+28 1.56 (G+A)/90min

> most definitely

Cronaldo: Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, European Golden Boot, 53+18 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi: Supercopa, Uefa Supercup, Fifa Club World Cup, Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer/ Top Assister, European Golden Boot/ Top Assister, bunch of records + WR of scoring in one season club and club + international (73 and 82), 73+36 or 1.86 (G+A)/90min and 82+41

> most definitely

Cronaldo: La Liga, 60+15 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min and 66+17

----------------------------------

Cronaldo actually was just as effective as last season, but Messi was better in last season, and even better this season.

2010-2011
Messi 1.56 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi 1.86 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2012 Stats

Messi was so far ahead of Cronaldo individually, that's it's not even funny. Well actually it's funny as hell how Cronaldo is even compared to Messi.

by pewpew Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:06 am

Ronaldo deserve the ballon d'or. But I think Messi will win it cause he is more of a nice guy and loved by the media.

And while Messi's goal record is impressing he played more games than Ronaldo with all the extra cups the CL contributed with from the year before. And scoring like 10 goals almost all from penalty spot when the league as already over to claim the pichichi.

by Donuts Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:11 am

pewpew wrote:Ronaldo deserve the ballon d'or. But I think Messi will win it cause he is more of a nice guy and loved by the media.

And while Messi's goal record is impressing he played more games than Ronaldo with all the extra cups the CL contributed with from the year before. And scoring like 10 goals almost all from penalty spot when the league as already over to claim the pichichi.

Look at the chart, 3 Club matches in favor of Messi, 4 international matches in favor of Ronaldo
so even it out Ronaldo has 1 more match and much less goals and even less assists.

by white_star Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:13 am

There is bias in what he said so no reason go crazy. Mou said what he thought and he has every right to think that. Plus how would it look when the coach of Madrid is not supporting his own players.

I do have to disagree because Ronaldo deserves to be praised but he is unlucky that Messi is playing. Messi is just above everyone.

by pewpew Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:13 am

Donuts wrote:
pewpew wrote:Ronaldo deserve the ballon d'or. But I think Messi will win it cause he is more of a nice guy and loved by the media.

And while Messi's goal record is impressing he played more games than Ronaldo with all the extra cups the CL contributed with from the year before. And scoring like 10 goals almost all from penalty spot when the league as already over to claim the pichichi.
Look at the chart, 3 Club matches in favor of Messi, 4 international matches in favor of Ronaldo
so even it out Ronaldo has 1 more match and much less goals and even less assists.

Since when are the international games counted into the 73 goals messi scored and the 60 goals cronaldo scored? Did I miss something here?

by chad4401 Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:22 am

tbh i dont even see how this is a debate, when at the end of day no matter what ronaldo does and i mean no matter what!, game deciding goals, big game performances, individual brillance,etc....., most are gonna say messi> just cause that how it always been, and some don't wanna see that change

i mean iniesta won euro player of the year ffs and some in this forum admitted he was off form for barca most of last season and had a great euro with a stacked spain team that alone was enough to trump everything ronaldo did, its a farce and its plain as day to see

messi is the better player that is true, but ron has really stepped it up lately and close the gap imo, yet he gets no credit cause he will never be as good as messi that bs, it should be a toss up between the 2

by white_star Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:23 am

urbaNRoots wrote:Totally agree with Mourinho. Ronaldo deserves the Ballon d'Or this time. It would be the biggest farce if he wouldn't win it.

Everyone already knows you lover cr7 and Madrid so you don't have to show it in every single post.

Madrid fans say CR7 should win it, now pause and think why would a Madrd fan go against their best player that is what being a fan is all about.

I must say one thing, there is no way in hell that CR7 led Portugal to the semis please stop riding his junk so much that you make him the best player in all his games. Don't care what you guys say it is true just ask a neutral.

by Donuts Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:47 am

pewpew wrote:
Donuts wrote:
pewpew wrote:Ronaldo deserve the ballon d'or. But I think Messi will win it cause he is more of a nice guy and loved by the media.

And while Messi's goal record is impressing he played more games than Ronaldo with all the extra cups the CL contributed with from the year before. And scoring like 10 goals almost all from penalty spot when the league as already over to claim the pichichi.
Look at the chart, 3 Club matches in favor of Messi, 4 international matches in favor of Ronaldo
so even it out Ronaldo has 1 more match and much less goals and even less assists.

Since when are the international games counted into the 73 goals messi scored and the 60 goals cronaldo scored? Did I miss something here?

The award is individual skill including international and club level, so we count both.
In both Messi did better whats your point? lol

by Jack Daniels Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:52 am

It's getting hot in here lol.

BTW i love the argument of Barca being 6th without Messi.

6th lol what crap team. Oh sure they did beat the hell out of us these past few years. But who cares lol. 6th!? Best "TEAM" of all time i guess lol.

by chad4401 Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:06 am

Jack Daniels wrote:It's getting hot in here lol.

BTW i love the argument of Barca being 6th without Messi.

6th lol what crap team. Oh sure they did beat the hell out of us these past few years. But who cares lol. 6th!? Best "TEAM" of all time i guess lol.

straw mans logic ftw

by Jack Daniels Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:12 am

chad4401 wrote:
Jack Daniels wrote:It's getting hot in here lol.

BTW i love the argument of Barca being 6th without Messi.

6th lol what crap team. Oh sure they did beat the hell out of us these past few years. But who cares lol. 6th!? Best "TEAM" of all time i guess lol.

straw mans logic ftw

Indeed.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:21 am

Stats dont lie ffs :coffee:

by CBarca Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:26 am

DON'T QUOTE JIOPSI'S POST FFS

It's huge, just say @jiopsi or something..

Anyway, GO STATS!

They always tell the full story Rolling Eyes

by FennecFox7 Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:05 am

white_star wrote:There is bias in what he said so no reason go crazy. Mou said what he thought and he has every right to think that. Plus how would it look when the coach of Madrid is not supporting his own players.

I do have to disagree because Ronaldo deserves to be praised but he is unlucky that Messi is playing. Messi is just above everyone.

Finally, thank you.

by harhar11 Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:19 am

Jack Daniels wrote:It's getting hot in here lol.

BTW i love the argument of Barca being 6th without Messi.

6th lol what crap team. Oh sure they did beat the hell out of us these past few years. But who cares lol. 6th!? Best "TEAM" of all time i guess lol.

Dude, how many point less did we get than you? Not a single logical barca fan will say that last season the team was up to its standard a.k.a the standard that made some say that Barca were the best team ever, not a single one. And the only player that was up to his standard was Messi (maybe busquets and mascherano) not Xavi, not Iniesta, not Pique, not Valdes, not Pedro and not Sanchez. Then we had some important player who were injured alot, like Xavi, puyol and Villa. Last season Messi really did do almost everything in the last third by himself..

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