Re: Is Arsene Wenger overrated.

by The Franchise Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:08 pm

Harry Redknapp wrote:FA Cup, the oldest cup competition in this sport, is being called Shitty

I know you hate PL and anything English Dani, but to say FA Cup is SHITTY is an absolute joke.

1. I been watching and loving English football long before you.

2. Its shit, dont care how old it is. Winning it means nothing, Wenger was right all those years ago sending out kids for it.

by worms Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:08 pm

RealGunner wrote:
worms wrote:
RealGunner wrote:

We have won it 11 times. 2nd highest in english history.

Arsenal fans care about any kind of trophy not FA cup specifically

You have won it 11 times but the last time you won it was 8 years ago,that was the last time you won something.So obviously your fans would really like to win it.

yea win any trophy. We cared about the COC as much as the FA cup.

Well you are not going to win any trophy this season.Including the FA cup.

You haven't won any trophy in 8 years,that's one of the reasons your fans are unhappy with Wenger and the way your club is going.

by spanky Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:11 pm

The Franchise wrote:Oh yes he is terrible. His B rated Arsenal team lost to an A rated Bayern Munich.

How could he allow such a thing.

the knee-jerk on this forum is unbelievable m8, besides bayern's players looked like roid abusing freaks today compared to arsenal's..

by The Franchise Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:11 pm

worms wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Tactically inept?

What do you want him do to? He cant make Santi Cazorla go past Alaba...he cant make Podolski beat Lahm....

There is nothing he can do about the fact Bayern and better than Arsenal.

You want a team who is incapable of defending deep and compactly to do it? They have shown for years and years they cant do that.

You want them to try and press high? Bayern can escape it.

The better team won, thats the bottom line. There is only so much a coach can do.

Did you read my first post?

Because I made it quite clear I am not just judging him on one match,nope I am judging him over several years.

And after watching him repeatedly get outsmarted by other managers it is my opinion that he tactically inept.And this is Wengers team that was playing today,he has made every decision over the last several years to build this team so he's responsible for failing....again.

Yeah but that becomes irrelevant because if Arsenal got a good result today, you wouldnt of made this thread. Its real easy to make a thread like this off the back of a bad result, easy to get people to kneejerk too.

Wenger is not faultless, but there is nothing he can do when a better team beats his team..its what it is, the better teams normally win.

Wenger has his flaws like anyone else, he aint perfect, but you cant blame him for everything.

There is nothing he can do about RVP wanting to join City, a better club. There is nothing he can do about Cesc wanting to go home...and so on and so forth.

by REWB Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:16 pm

The Franchise wrote:
worms wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Tactically inept?

What do you want him do to? He cant make Santi Cazorla go past Alaba...he cant make Podolski beat Lahm....

There is nothing he can do about the fact Bayern and better than Arsenal.

You want a team who is incapable of defending deep and compactly to do it? They have shown for years and years they cant do that.

You want them to try and press high? Bayern can escape it.

The better team won, thats the bottom line. There is only so much a coach can do.

Did you read my first post?

Because I made it quite clear I am not just judging him on one match,nope I am judging him over several years.

And after watching him repeatedly get outsmarted by other managers it is my opinion that he tactically inept.And this is Wengers team that was playing today,he has made every decision over the last several years to build this team so he's responsible for failing....again.

Yeah but that becomes irrelevant because if Arsenal got a good result today, you wouldnt of made this thread. Its real easy to make a thread like this off the back of a bad result, easy to get people to kneejerk too.

Wenger is not faultless, but there is nothing he can do when a better team beats his team..its what it is, the better teams normally win.

Wenger has his flaws like anyone else, he aint perfect, but you cant blame him for everything.

There is nothing he can do about RVP wanting to join City, a better ~~club~~ team. There is nothing he can do about Cesc wanting to go home...and so on and so forth.

by DeletedUser#1 Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:35 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Harry Redknapp wrote:FA Cup, the oldest cup competition in this sport, is being called Shitty

I know you hate PL and anything English Dani, but to say FA Cup is SHITTY is an absolute joke.

1. I been watching and loving English football long before you.

2. Its shit, dont care how old it is. Winning it means nothing, Wenger was right all those years ago sending out kids for it.

In your opinion. But you are a Barca-loving fan who probably doesn't care if your team gets raped 6-0 by Madrid in CDR semi-final. because it's only CDR !!

You are loaded with success, and that's why you don't care about things like FA Cup. It's like a rich Texan, for whom an extra 10,000$ tax money is like a dime, but doesn't know that means A WHOLE LOT to 95% of the society, whom he is so blind to see.

Absolute joke

And don't patronize me declaring your love for English football. You are a whole 3 years older than me, Grandpa.

by The Franchise Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:42 pm

Actually I care very much, if its to Madrid.

But that aside, yeah, in my opinion...all those cups are mostly worthless waste of time. Good for the youth though.

Nothing to do with being loaded with success...I felt the same way all the years we sucked to. Its a waste of time and energy.

Not patronizing...my point is, dont come to me like im some anti English football guy, not when I been watching the damn leagues longer than you, someone who clearly loves the league to the point of fanboyism.

by Eman Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:50 pm

The way I see it, half of the people in the world seem to think he's an idiot, while the other half still remember when he was feared and still respect him for it. If it's a 50/50 split between how good people think he is, I don't think he can be considered overrated.

by Onyx Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:55 pm

I think Arsenal's pressing was alright today. It could have been a bit more intense, but overall it was alright.

Bayern looked content letting Arsenal have the ball.

by Zealous Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:59 pm

OLpower wrote:Nasri, Fabregas, Van Persie, Song, Clichy none of them replaced with players from equal quality. How is the team supposed to sustain his level when the best players leave and are not replaced.

Van Persie can not be called a mercenary, he had good reasons to leave.

The thing is that the youth policy has backfired big time, when they reached their prime, they left because the level had already dropped. If Arsenal had kept these players like other top clubs do, they would be competing for the titles again.

Wenger shouldn't manage the club, he just should be the coach.

I agree with this 100%

by VanDeezNuts Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:02 am

i didnt think he was rated anymore tbh.

my opinion is that he is a great manager who is becoming more and more hampered by his own increasing stubbornness.

especially in terms of buying/selling/increasing salaries to hold on to players.

if i was an arsenal fan (and though im not a fan i really do like the club) i would certainly be upset at the situation. poor performances over many years. no trophies. and the SAME OLD excuses.

idk if he should be sacked or not but something certainly has to change.

by Zealous Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:12 am

I said this before in another thread. Any other self respecting big club would have fired Wenger 3 years ago. Whether or not it's a good decision is a different debate but Wenger would not be given 8 years at United/Chelsea/City/Madrid/Barca/Milan/Inter/Juve/Bayern etc without a single trophy.

Don't talk to me about money either, Arsenal can definitely raise funds if they wanted to but they don't because they only seem content with a top 4 spot and now that might not even get that.

This is not a knock on Wenger but sometimes a club needs a shot in the arm to get going again. Expecting different results when the same mistakes are being made for almost a decade now is lunacy.

by sportsczy Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:29 am

unless a club is willing to spend money on buying and/or keeping wc players, it doesn't matter who the manager is. Firing Wenger and continuing the same policy will change nothing. In fact, Wenger has managed to get Arsenal to CL elimination round for 13 straight years now... something no other club in Europe has achieved.

To a large extent, wenger is the victim of this consistent run because the majority owners of arsenal are about money, not trophies. Wenger has made them a huge amount of money.

by Zealous Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:37 am

Of course there is an understanding that Wenger leaving would result in a change of policy.

Wenger the coach is great. I personally don;t think he has the right approach as a manager of a club tbh.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:41 am

Lets put it this way if he were sacked there would be a huge line of people who would want his services.

As Sports said its impossible to successful if you are selling quality players all the time.

They can spend money on the likes of Giroud, Cazorla and Podolski every year but fact is if they keep selling the likes of Cesc and RVP to pay for it they will never go anywhere.

by Zealous Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:45 am

I agree. The conditions are just not right to really win anything. It's clearly a problem of holding on to their best players, that to me is on the management/board and Wenger is clearly a part of that.

I don't buy that Arsenal can't make the odd 30 million pound signing if they needed to. They just aren't willing to risk it.

by sportsczy Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:46 am

it's not his approach. For example, he wanted to extend both Cesc and Nasri the summer before they left.... but the board didn't approve. He wants to keep Sagna, but the board won't allow him to offer more than a 1 year contract and won't even allow an increase in his wage.

Does anyone honestly believe that wenger would refuse if arsenal were to give him a 100 mil transfer budget? of course not! the owners are just riding the cash cow.

Wenger is a company man. He's not going to call out the ownership.

by Mr Nick09 Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:48 am

so you are implying that Wenger with resources in a different club would be something else enterely?

by worms Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:49 am

The Franchise wrote:Actually I care very much, if its to Madrid.

But that aside, yeah, in my opinion...all those cups are mostly worthless waste of time. Good for the youth though.

Nothing to do with being loaded with success...I felt the same way all the years we sucked to. Its a waste of time and energy.

Not patronizing...my point is, dont come to me like im some anti English football guy, not when I been watching the damn leagues longer than you, someone who clearly loves the league to the point of fanboyism.

You are in the tiny minority when you say domestic cups are a waste of time.They clearly aren't a waste of time to Arsenal fans,they are sick of failing time and time again when they should win.

by worms Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:51 am

The Franchise wrote:
worms wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Tactically inept?

What do you want him do to? He cant make Santi Cazorla go past Alaba...he cant make Podolski beat Lahm....

There is nothing he can do about the fact Bayern and better than Arsenal.

You want a team who is incapable of defending deep and compactly to do it? They have shown for years and years they cant do that.

You want them to try and press high? Bayern can escape it.

The better team won, thats the bottom line. There is only so much a coach can do.

Did you read my first post?

Because I made it quite clear I am not just judging him on one match,nope I am judging him over several years.

And after watching him repeatedly get outsmarted by other managers it is my opinion that he tactically inept.And this is Wengers team that was playing today,he has made every decision over the last several years to build this team so he's responsible for failing....again.

Yeah but that becomes irrelevant because if Arsenal got a good result today, you wouldnt of made this thread. Its real easy to make a thread like this off the back of a bad result, easy to get people to kneejerk too.

Wenger is not faultless, but there is nothing he can do when a better team beats his team..its what it is, the better teams normally win.

Wenger has his flaws like anyone else, he aint perfect, but you cant blame him for everything.

There is nothing he can do about RVP wanting to join City, a better club. There is nothing he can do about Cesc wanting to go home...and so on and so forth.

Again,I am not making this thread off the back of this defeat.I am making it off the last 8 years.My reasons aren't irrelevant because Arsenal got beat Bayern today.Arsenal getting knocked out of another cup and Wenger getting his tactics wrong again only strengthens my argument.

Arsenals wage bill is higher than Bayerns.

Arsenals team cost more than Dortmunds.

So money is no excuse for Wenger.It's his bed so he has to lie in it.

by Zealous Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:52 am

sportsczy wrote:it's not his approach. For example, he wanted to extend both Cesc and Nasri the summer before they left.... but the board didn't approve. He wants to keep Sagna, but the board won't allow him to offer more than a 1 year contract and won't even allow an increase in his wage.

Does anyone honestly believe that wenger would refuse if arsenal were to give him a 100 mil transfer budget? of course not! the owners are just riding the cash cow.

Wenger is a company man. He's not going to call out the ownership.

You're probably right. But it's not like Wenger doesn't have a say here, if he put his foot down he could have made sure some things didn't happen.

by sportsczy Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:55 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:so you are implying that Wenger with resources in a different club would be something else enterely?

Before the Emirates Stadium project, he hadthe resources.... 1996 to 2005. Also at monaco.

by Eivindo Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:55 am

he is not overrated, he has just been at the same club for too long

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:56 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:so you are implying that Wenger with resources in a different club would be something else enterely?

We have seen Wenger with resources before Arsenal changed stadiums....

What happened? 3 leagues and 4 FA Cups.

by RealGunner Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:57 am

Nick wants him at PSG lol

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:58 am

Honestly I think the board are more to blame than Wenger, but Wenger is the public figure so he gets to take the heat. Surely he must have some input but from my understanding from lurking at the Arsenal board it seems to me that it is the board the one that does not want to increase wage limits, transfer budgets, etc. It's not even about buying players, how good would Arsenal be had they kept some of the star players that have left recently?

Arsenal have become a selling club. They should look to new ownership because the current one lacks ambition.

That being said he's not fault-less. Once you are in a place for long enough and you no longer have the pressure to win titles then you become complacent. I'm sure he shoulders some of the blame in Arsenal's decline. The fact is that none of us understand how much of it comes from the board and how much from him.

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