Re: How Many AM's Out there are "better" than Ozil?

by Kamikaze692 Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:02 am

I still believe Ozil's best position is a CF/SS, a modern variation of the classic trequartista position. He has the ability to score goals regularly, as evidenced by his exploits with Germany in the WC Qualifiers, whenever he was played as a false 9. I think if he lives up to his potential, he can be the new Platini/ Zico.

Still, its funny how Cazorla, Hazard et al are mentioned in the sane sentence as him. eco smile

Might as well include Oscar in this list then eco smile

by Toffer Harley Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:43 pm

funny how randoms always talk about his stamina. seems like a lot of people have some kind of telepathic bond with mesut and feel his tiredness. just because u don't run around like an energizer bunny for 90 min that doesn't mean that your stamina is shite.

in fact, over the last 2 years he has become considerably more athletic and put in extra shifts to bulk up. his training regimen was broken down in a german newspaper and seems more complex than those of many of his peers.

substitutions are not exclusively a result of tiredness.

by Gil Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:56 pm

Cazorla is better than Ozil lol. Santi is a complete midfielder while Ozil is more of a forward.

Hazard clearly has more potential too. His dribbling, strength, pace and athleticism is simply something Ozil can't compete with. His ceiling is higher, plain and simple.

I'd take Mata, Kroos and Silva over him as well.

by Clockwork Orange Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:39 pm

What kind of system are we talking about here? In terms of playmaking #10s there is noone at his level. It is a shame that his talents are limited to the anti football of Real Madrid. Anybody that has seen him play for the German National team are aware of his abilities. He is a mercurial talent.

by FennecFox7 Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:37 am

Gil wrote:Cazorla is better than Ozil lol. Santi is a complete midfielder while Ozil is more of a forward.

Hazard clearly has more potential too. His dribbling, strength, pace and athleticism is simply something Ozil can't compete with. His ceiling is higher, plain and simple.

I'd take Mata, Kroos and Silva over him as well.

Lol gil pls stop

Ozil is better at set pieces, a much better passer then hazard, and just as strong. Lol hazard is just as weak as ozil, dunno what your smoking.

Ozil is a 10000x smarter player then hazard. You'll see the real ozil next season

by Clockwork Orange Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:11 am

Giggity5313 wrote:
Gil wrote:Cazorla is better than Ozil lol. Santi is a complete midfielder while Ozil is more of a forward.

Hazard clearly has more potential too. His dribbling, strength, pace and athleticism is simply something Ozil can't compete with. His ceiling is higher, plain and simple.

I'd take Mata, Kroos and Silva over him as well.

Lol gil pls stop

Ozil is better at set pieces, a much better passer then hazard, and just as strong. Lol hazard is just as weak as ozil, dunno what your smoking.

Ozil is a 10000x smarter player then hazard. You'll see the real ozil next season

As long as Cristiano is there I am afraid that Ozil's mercurial talents will be soley displayed for the German NT Sad

by FennecFox7 Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:22 am

If anything cristiano would help ozils stats

It's the coach who has to organize to get the best out of both. remember, mourinho is not in charge now

by Clockwork Orange Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:28 am

Giggity5313 wrote:If anything cristiano would help ozils stats

It's the coach who has to organize to get the best out of both. remember, mourinho is not in charge now

Sadly it will not. Cristiano has managed to deter the performances of all his teammates. Rooney, Tevez, Higuain, to some extent Benzema and Ozil. Ronaldo gets into Ozils channels and passing lanes. If Ronaldo were to become more associative, it would mean less goals, which means that he will not be a rival to one Lionel Messi, ashis goal tally is all that he has in common with the legend. Ronaldo needs to either adapt to a system where he acts like an actual winger that provides width as well as creates space for his team mates, rather than running into space only to score goals. Ozil would fare much better with Reus by his side.

by FennecFox7 Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:38 am

Sorry I have to disagree.

Cristiano creates countless chances with his passes. But most of all his runs are outstanding. If ronaldo didn't play ozil would have much less assists. Don't tell me benzema is gonna make runs Laughing

the guy plays almost like a AM.

The thing is ronaldo creates tons of space for the others to exploit. The real problem is the xabi-khedira midfield who can't keep possesion for their life and di maria..

Having said that ronaldo takes bucketloads of shots and it would help if he toned it down (which he has recently). Plus ancelotti doesn't use wingers for the most part if i'm not mistaken so CR is gonna have to adapt playing as 2 man striking force.

The thing is ronaldos goals are very important. You act like he stat pads when he really doesn't. Every big game he has showed up and been our best player, and not just with goals.
The width problem, as said before, is also a fault of di maria, yet i don't see you criticizing him?

We can agree to disagree, I do think ozil was not played to his potential this season, that i can agree with

But I personally think you aren't looking at the big picture. It's not just CR. its the whole system

BTW CR doesn't mindlessly dribble and be selfish like you assume either. Instead of forcing his play, he has adapted and plays a passing game

by Clockwork Orange Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:48 am

Giggity5313 wrote:Sorry I have to disagree.

Cristiano creates countless chances with his passes. But most of all his runs are outstanding. If ronaldo didn't play ozil would have much less assists. Don't tell me benzema is gonna make runs the guy plays almost like a AM.

The thing is ronaldo creates tons of space for the others to exploit. The real problem is the xabi-khedira midfield who can't keep possesion for their life and di maria..

Having said that ronaldo takes bucketloads of shots and it would help if he toned it down (which he has recently). Plus ancelotti doesn't use wingers for the most part if i'm not mistaken so CR is gonna have to adapt playing as 2 man striking force.

The thing is ronaldos goals are very important. You act like he stat pads when he really doesn't. Every big game he has showed up and been our best player, and not just with goals.
The width problem, as said before, is also a fault of di maria, yet i don't see you criticizing him?

We can agree to disagree, I do think ozil was not played to his potential this season, that i can agree with

But I personally think you aren't looking at the big picture. It's not just CR. its the whole system

BTW CR doesn't mindlessly dribble and be selfish like you assume either. Instead of forcing his play, he has adapted and plays a passing game

Well before this escalates to a level beyond civil debate, I will stop in my tracks. I can see your avatar is one of Cristiano, ergo I came to the conclusion that you are a fan of his. I understand that this blind you to any of his faults. Thank you for debating with me, but as always within this forum, I sense a precipice of bias and manipulation beyond the 5 senses.

by FennecFox7 Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:57 am

Clockwork Orange wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:Sorry I have to disagree.

Cristiano creates countless chances with his passes. But most of all his runs are outstanding. If ronaldo didn't play ozil would have much less assists. Don't tell me benzema is gonna make runs the guy plays almost like a AM.

The thing is ronaldo creates tons of space for the others to exploit. The real problem is the xabi-khedira midfield who can't keep possesion for their life and di maria..

Having said that ronaldo takes bucketloads of shots and it would help if he toned it down (which he has recently). Plus ancelotti doesn't use wingers for the most part if i'm not mistaken so CR is gonna have to adapt playing as 2 man striking force.

The thing is ronaldos goals are very important. You act like he stat pads when he really doesn't. Every big game he has showed up and been our best player, and not just with goals.
The width problem, as said before, is also a fault of di maria, yet i don't see you criticizing him?

We can agree to disagree, I do think ozil was not played to his potential this season, that i can agree with

But I personally think you aren't looking at the big picture. It's not just CR. its the whole system

BTW CR doesn't mindlessly dribble and be selfish like you assume either. Instead of forcing his play, he has adapted and plays a passing game

Well before this escalates to a level beyond civil debate, I will stop in my tracks. I can see your avatar is one of Cristiano, ergo I came to the conclusion that you are a fan of his. I understand that this blind you to any of his faults. Thank you for debating with me, but as always within this forum, I sense a precipice of bias and manipulation beyond the 5 senses.

by guest7 Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:04 am

Özil's problem is his lack of consistency, not Ronaldo or the system Laughing

Kroos, Iniesta, Götze, Fabregas and Mata are better. Özil has only had 1 consistent season and if he doesn't have one next season I wouldn't be against him getting replaced. BTW, having Ronaldo is a good thing for Özil... Since DMzema is his forward, you kinda need someone to make the runs.. And in Madrid, CR is the one who makes them, thus giving more chances for Özil to make a beautiful throughpass. Anyone who says a forward ruins the performance of an AM is stupid

by alexander mahone Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:54 am

Although given his immense potential he could have done better (just like every Madrid player, Ronaldo included, could have done better in this disappointing season), never understand the excessive cry about Ozil's inconsistency despite him consistently being players who created most chances in Spain and CL for the past 3 seasons, including in important matches. Those who're claimed to be better than him haven't even consistently do the same for the past 3 seasons.

The thing about Ronaldo and Ozil, I believe in some way it's a mutual thing. Efficacy wise they're both better off because of each other, Ronaldo got benefit from Ozil's ability to find him even in tight space, Ozil too got benefit from Ronaldo's ability to find space to run. But I also believe it's kind of overused and has made us predictable. In the end it doesn't matter much Ronaldo got his goals and Ozil got his assists if we're not winning anything.

by FatherReason Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:57 pm

Think about it this way: if you could have one AM for your team, who would it be?

It certainly wouldn't be David Silva.

There is only one attacking midfielder better than Ozil and that is Iniesta.

by danyjr Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:00 pm

AM should score.
Özil doesn't.
I rest my case.

by danyjr Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:04 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:If anything cristiano would help ozils stats

This pretty much says it all. No avatar labelling, I'm actually not a fan of Cristiano. Without Cristiano's runs behind the defence Özil would not get half as many assists as he gets every season.

by Valkyrja Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:05 pm

danyjr wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:If anything cristiano would help ozils stats
This pretty much says it all. No avatar labelling, I'm actually not a fan of Cristiano. Without Cristiano's runs behind the defence Özil would not get half as many assists as he gets every season.

But he would score more.

by danyjr Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:08 pm

I don't think so. Having watched him the past few seasons, he chokes a lot in front of goal. He's always looking to pass it to someone even when he's got the goal open to himself.

by Onyx Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:00 am

Why would an AM need to score? That's not the job of an AM.

by Gil Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:20 am

Yohan Modric wrote:Why would an AM need to score? That's not the job of an AM.

Yes it is. In what world isn't it?

by Mamad Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:06 pm

Ozil can score.

by FatherReason Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:17 pm

Gil wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Why would an AM need to score? That's not the job of an AM.

Yes it is. In what world isn't it?

Ehm this one? The trequartista's primary jobs are to provide a link between attack and defense, to create problems for defenders and midfielders in between the lines, to dictate the tempo of the play, to be the pivot of the team going forward, to bring teammates into the game, to add unpredictability, to be the free man and to be the foremost creative outlet of the team.

If they can pop up with a few goals now and then (Ozil scored 10 last season for Madrid), well all the better, but that's what the strikers are there for. Ozil's role calls for an advanced playmaker, and he plays that role perfectly in my opinion.

by danyjr Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:21 pm

Best AM's in the history of football scored a lot of goals as well as creating them. Prime and modern example of it was Sneijder back in Inter. Assist and goal machine.

FatherReason wrote:If they can pop up with a few goals now and then (Ozil scored 10 last season for Madrid), well all the better, but that's what the strikers are there for. Ozil's role calls for an advanced playmaker, and he plays that role perfectly in my opinion.

Except the day the strikers are marked up like UHU or they fail to score, a good AM steps up and scores himself. This is a major issue with teams who have rely only on strikers to score with every other player providing per se. I like teams that goal can come from everywhere, every player.

by FatherReason Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:33 pm

danyjr wrote:Best AM's in the history of football scored a lot of goals as well as creating them. Prime and modern example of it was Sneijder back in Inter. Assist and goal machine.

FatherReason wrote:If they can pop up with a few goals now and then (Ozil scored 10 last season for Madrid), well all the better, but that's what the strikers are there for. Ozil's role calls for an advanced playmaker, and he plays that role perfectly in my opinion.
Except the day the strikers are marked up like UHU or they fail to score, a good AM steps up and scores himself. This is a major issue with teams who have rely only on strikers to score with every other player providing per se. I like teams that goal can come from everywhere, every player.

10 goals for a midfielder on a team with Ronaldo, Benzema & Higuain ahead of him isn't exactly a bad return. Juan Roman Riquelme, arguably the greatest old-style number 10 of our generation, scored a few goals but was never a "goal machine".

Who do you think is a better AM right now than Ozil?

by Mr Nick09 Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:36 pm

you guys changing the definition of what a player should be doing as it suits you. Zidane wasnt a great scorer and neither was Laudrup or guys like Rui Costa, Netzer, Riquelme... scoring is always a plus, but lets not act like a AM who doesnt score isnt good enough.

by sportsczy Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:42 pm

Not to mention that Zidane wasn't a AM as it is defined today. Zidane played in a position that is closer to what Xavi does today...

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