Messi breaks Maradona's record!

farfan wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

farfan wrote:

senior team minus julio cesar, thiago silva, dante, dani alves, david luiz ,  , hernanes , paulinho , luis gustavo , fred ...

in fact, of the 16 players ( starters and subs ) that messi beat, only 3 appeared yesterday

Yeah Marcelo, such a scrub. :DMind you Messi likes to pwn him in Madrid also.

Also we must remember that Maradona faced probably the best Brazil squad ever in the 80's. Telê Santana was a genius, and that Brazil squad was stacked.

Ganso wrote:
Even if he had scored 4 against us, it means nothing because he is a little shit compared to Maradona and other Argentina greats when we talk about international football

No he isn't lol. His WC10 performance were already better than any Maradona's performance bar WC86, and he's already done more in Olympics, CA and WCQ.

Harmonica wrote:

Ganso wrote:
Even if he had scored 4 against us, it means nothing because he is a little shit compared to Maradona and other Argentina greats when we talk about international football

No he isn't lol. His WC10 performance were already better than any Maradona's performance bar WC86, and he's already done more in Olympics, CA and WCQ.

Im actually loling in real life

the level of fanboyism is scary .

in 1994 ,even a fat, 34 year old , drugged up , half senile maradona managed to outperform messi in the big stage ..

Harmonica wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:What has Messi won with the Argentina senior team again? How many goals has he scored for Argentoina when it matters? Harmonica, your Messi obssession is becoming borderline disgraceful. Have you ever thought of having a check up? Are you aroused by this man in more than footballing terms? Please get a grip.

So when does it matter when you score, when you win tournament, advance to tournament?

Lets see

WCU20 Messi 6 = Maradona 6
Olympics Messi 2 > Maradona 0
WCQ Messi 12 > Maradona 3
WC Messi 0 > Maradona 5
Total Messi 20 > Maradona 14

Now I'm confused.

The most important time. Messi has flopped in every major tournament, Maradona elevated his team to a world cup and reached a final 4 years later. This shameful Messi cling on to anything Messi does is turning you into a caricature of yourself! The thing is that you are Finnish, so I don't even know why you are so fascinated by him. We all know you support Messi and not Barcelona or Catalonia, as you previously shoed your hand in the Barcelona section.

Even if Messi scored 1000 goals for Argentina, if he carries on shameing himself for the national team in major tournaments, it will all be for naught. Is it that hard to understand, or are you so deep in Messi's rectum that you can't even see the truth?

Ganso wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Ganso wrote:
Even if he had scored 4 against us, it means nothing because he is a little shit compared to Maradona and other Argentina greats when we talk about international football

No he isn't lol. His WC10 performance were already better than any Maradona's performance bar WC86, and he's already done more in Olympics, CA and WCQ.

Im actually loling in real life

I'm laughing at you.

Harmonica wrote:

Ganso wrote:
Even if he had scored 4 against us, it means nothing because he is a little shit compared to Maradona and other Argentina greats when we talk about international football

No he isn't lol. His WC10 performance were already better than any Maradona's performance bar WC86, and he's already done more in Olympics, CA and WCQ.

You have shown your hand, troll detected. You are one of the worst posters on here. What would Messi have to do for you to see him for what he is?

Clockwork Orange wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:What has Messi won with the Argentina senior team again? How many goals has he scored for Argentoina when it matters? Harmonica, your Messi obssession is becoming borderline disgraceful. Have you ever thought of having a check up? Are you aroused by this man in more than footballing terms? Please get a grip.

So when does it matter when you score, when you win tournament, advance to tournament?

Lets see

WCU20 Messi 6 = Maradona 6
Olympics Messi 2 > Maradona 0
WCQ Messi 12 > Maradona 3
WC Messi 0 > Maradona 5
Total Messi 20 > Maradona 14

Now I'm confused.

The most important time. Messi has flopped in every major tournament, Maradona elevated his team to a world cup and reached a final 4 years later. This shameful Messi cling on to anything Messi does is turning you into a caricature of yourself! The thing is that you are Finnish, so I don't even know why you are so fascinated by him. We all know you support Messi and not Barcelona or Catalonia, as you previously shoed your hand in the Barcelona section.

Even if Messi scored 1000 goals for Argentina, if he carries on shameing himself for the national team in major tournaments, it will all be for naught. Is it that hard to understand, or are you so deep in Messi's rectum that you can't even see the truth?

As said before Messi WC10 performance > any Maradona bar WC86. WC90 Argentina's defense and Goycochea carried 0 goal Maradona to finals were he didn't do anything. Messi didn't have that pleasure in WC10. What he had though was a delirious coach.

Clockwork Orange wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Ganso wrote:
Even if he had scored 4 against us, it means nothing because he is a little shit compared to Maradona and other Argentina greats when we talk about international football

No he isn't lol. His WC10 performance were already better than any Maradona's performance bar WC86, and he's already done more in Olympics, CA and WCQ.

You have shown your hand, troll detected. You are one of the worst posters on here. What would Messi have to do for you to see him for what he is?

Actually I know what I'm talking about, and I can argue for it, if you like. But like before, whenever I debate, the result not gonna be pretty.

Harmonica wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:

Harmonica wrote:
So when does it matter when you score, when you win tournament, advance to tournament?

Lets see

WCU20 Messi 6 = Maradona 6
Olympics Messi 2 > Maradona 0
WCQ Messi 12 > Maradona 3
WC Messi 0 > Maradona 5
Total Messi 20 > Maradona 14

Now I'm confused.

The most important time. Messi has flopped in every major tournament, Maradona elevated his team to a world cup and reached a final 4 years later. This shameful Messi cling on to anything Messi does is turning you into a caricature of yourself! The thing is that you are Finnish, so I don't even know why you are so fascinated by him. We all know you support Messi and not Barcelona or Catalonia, as you previously shoed your hand in the Barcelona section.

Even if Messi scored 1000 goals for Argentina, if he carries on shameing himself for the national team in major tournaments, it will all be for naught. Is it that hard to understand, or are you so deep in Messi's rectum that you can't even see the truth?

As said before Messi WC10 performance > any Maradona bar WC86. WC90 Argentina's defense and Goycochea carried 0 goal Maradona to finals were he didn't do anything. Messi didn't have that pleasure in WC10. What he had though was a delirious coach.

what a dumb statement while we're at it , quaresma had a better career than maradona, bar his time with the national team , barcelona, and naples

farfan wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:
The most important time. Messi has flopped in every major tournament, Maradona elevated his team to a world cup and reached a final 4 years later. This shameful Messi cling on to anything Messi does is turning you into a caricature of yourself! The thing is that you are Finnish, so I don't even know why you are so fascinated by him. We all know you support Messi and not Barcelona or Catalonia, as you previously shoed your hand in the Barcelona section.

Even if Messi scored 1000 goals for Argentina, if he carries on shameing himself for the national team in major tournaments, it will all be for naught. Is it that hard to understand, or are you so deep in Messi's rectum that you can't even see the truth?

As said before Messi WC10 performance > any Maradona bar WC86. WC90 Argentina's defense and Goycochea carried 0 goal Maradona to finals were he didn't do anything. Messi didn't have that pleasure in WC10. What he had though was a delirious coach.

what a dumb statement while we're at it , quaresma had a better career than maradona, bar his time with the national team , barcelona, and naples

Much more intelligent than you though. Also rest of your post makes zero sense.

it makes 0 sense, i agree, it's your dumb logic .

Insults are only thing you can do, because you don't have any arguments.

this is what you said in a nutshell

" bar that time when maradona led his nation to the top of the world , won the most prestigious trophy in football ,  and was voted best player in the tournament , messi had a better international career "

you call that an argument ? i call it stupidity

It's an argument, might want to check it from grown up's books?

Messi under different NT-coaches

José PEKERMAN (15.09.2004 - 30.06.2006): 10 apps, 2 goals + 3 assists = 0,50 (G+A)/Game
Alfio BASILE (14.09.2006 - 16.10.2008): 24 apps, 8 goals + 9 assists = 0,71 (G+A)/Game
Diego MARADONA (04.11.2008 - 27.07.2010): 16 apps, 3 goals + 5 assists = 0,50 (G+A)/Game
Sergio BATISTA (27.07.2010 - 25.07.2011): 11 apps, 4 goals + 6 assists = 0,91 (G+A)/Game
Alejandro SABELLA (30.07.2011 - present): 21 apps, 18 goals + 9 assists = 1,29 (G+A)/Game

Scored already more under Sabella than under four previous coaches.

Messi has almost played as many NT games as maradona did. Maradona 34 goals from 91 apps, messi 36 goals from 80 apps if I'm not mistaken. That ratio is in favour of messi, but it takes into account maradonas decline as well as his prime. Post 90 maradona scored one national team goal from 20 games, if you want to even some things up by not showing either players decline it would be fair to subtract at least that period from maradonas total, in which he's got 33 goals from 71 apps, suddenly his ratio looks even with messi's. Now if we take it further and compare them up to the same age (messi about to turn 26) maradona had 26 goals from 54 games, now that is a significantly better ratio than messi. It includes a period of time when maradona didn't play a single NT game from the age of 22 to 24, an absence of almost 3 years to be precise, during which his goal scoring prowess was at a high peak. If we wanna compare competition goals maradona had at that point 7 world cup goals from 13 games, messi 1 goal from 8, if you want to discount the 86 world cup because of age differences then maradona had 2 goals from 5 apps, maradona 1 goal from 2 copa America games, messi 2 goals from 10, I'm not very interested in youth goals here but the record in u20 championship is the same and maradona did not compete at the Olympics. Messi has 13 goals from world cup qualifiers from 31 games, maradona had 3 from 6 games.

As we can see messi is playing games at a faster rate and his numbers are bigger, maradonas ratios were superior pretty much any way you look. The conclusion here are that maradona was a goalscorer machine up to 26 years of age who had less games to shine

Ratio is pretty much pointless statistic, because more you play, less average energy and form you have per game.

That's why example in real life

Messi 12/33 >> Maradona 3/8 in WCQ even though when the ratio is worse.

Although I disagree Harmonica is jumping the gun too early here on Messi having a better career NOW I think it's too early to make that comparison

And some of the logic here used.. to compare who is more effective xD goals? lmao I guess Torres is the king of International football, the guy has won everything and scored in almost every tournament

Fernando Torres > Maradona
am i right guys?

Let's hold the Messi vs any legend until he retires and the comparison is fair shall we? What is a fact though is Messi broke his record so I don't see why so many people are hating on him.

Donuts wrote:Although I disagree Harmonica is jumping the gun too early here on Messi having a better career NOW I think it's too early to make that comparison

Where did I say this? Although his full career (club+nt) is already beyond Maradona.

Messi was going to overtake maradona at some point or another, and by the time his career ends he will have eclipsed maradona on most NT scoring numbers ( id like to see assist numbers?), but as long as he doesnt have a world cup win or a world cup he can be remembered well for, his national career is not going to look "better" than Maradona's.

Klose has more goals than Gerd Muller ( in many more apps) but he wont be remembered all that dearly because hes never REALLY shined for germany as a legend.

Messi might have great numbers but he has practically a god (image wise) to surpass here.

I would like to see how many appearances Messi has made for his NT in which his appearance led "directly" to winning a game and advancing to an important stage, because the way i see it, almost all NT goals are useless unless they are important in your team's advancement. Maradona will well deservedly always be remembered for his 86 WC.

Heck even forlan will probably be remembered more by his people as one of the best NT players, more so than Messi.

When people remember players, they don't differentiate players by nt and club though. They remember them by their performances, no matter where. For Argentinian's I think Messi has already surpassed Maradona, as a player. Olé did poll couple years back for the best Argentinian player in history, and Messi won the poll over 50% of votes, of 100k+, already back then. Many Argentinian players, managers and coaches have already been saying that. Just couple of weeks ago another Argentinian, all-time Argentina RB Zanetti said this.

Javier Zanetti "Who's better, Messi or Maradona? Messi has overtaken Diego. Leo is the greatest of all time."

I never really was talking about who the "better" player is in general under other people's eyes.

I was talking about how they will be remembered for their national appearances.

You think people might not differentiate but right now im referring to how people will regard them as national heroes and legends for what they did when wearing their country's shirt and that is why i said that despite being (the superior player) overall, as a national legend he cant touch Maradona without winning a world cup at the very least in my opinion.

When Messi is 32 or whatever it is when he retires he will probably be remembered greatly on all fronts simply put, but what Maradona did with argentina was special, his goal against england even went down as the goal of the century..It was a big thing, and no matter how many goals or assists messi scores i think bottom line, his career ( in NT) without the WC wont be as memorable or highly regarded.

Donuts wrote:Although I disagree Harmonica is jumping the gun too early here on Messi having a better career NOW I think it's too early to make that comparison

And some of the logic here used.. to compare who is more effective xD goals? lmao I guess Torres is the king of International football, the guy has won everything and scored in almost every tournament

Fernando Torres > Maradona
am i right guys?

Let's hold the Messi vs any legend until he retires and the comparison is fair shall we? What is a fact though is Messi broke his record so I don't see why so many people are hating on him.

Torres > Messi at international level.

That much is certain.

AmarillaDirecta wrote:I never really was talking about who the "better" player is in general under other people's eyes.

I was talking about how they will be remembered for their national appearances.

You think people might not differentiate but right now im referring to how people will regard them as national heroes and legends for what they did when wearing their country's shirt and that is why i said that despite being (the superior player) overall, as a national legend he cant touch Maradona without winning a world cup at the very least in my opinion.

When Messi is 32 or whatever it is when he retires he will probably be remembered greatly on all fronts simply put, but what Maradona did with argentina was special, his goal against england even went down as the goal of the century..It was a big thing, and no matter how many goals or assists messi scores i think bottom line, his career ( in NT) without the WC wont be as memorable or highly regarded.

Well in team game, winning something isn't only matter of how you play, but also how team plays. But yeah Messi has to win WC in glorious fashion to beat Maradona at NT-level, but only in NT-level. In whole picture there is so much more to remember Messi from already, than Maradona.