UEFA Financial Fair Play

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by danyjr on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:42 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Also when sponsorship revenue is going through the roof since Qatar owns TV networks around the world and pimp the PSG jersey, that shows the sponsors, everywhere.
This is where UEFA should draw the line. Clubs like PSG and City have managed to use the loopholes in order to keep their balance sheets healthy. Without these internal 'investors' PSG or City cannot afford top players. Not only that, but no star players would want to go to these clubs had it not been solely for money.

PS: Pretty sure Pastore gets €4m per year.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by S on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:45 pm

#PSG 2012 revenue €222m (2011 €101m): match day €25m ('11 €18m), media €47m ('11 €45m), commercial €25m ('11 €21m), other €125m ('11 €17m).

What the heck is this 'other' ?

And thats like more than 50% of their total revenue Laughing
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by sportsczy on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:48 pm

"Other" is the sponsorship deals and other marketing related items. "Commercial" is only merchandising.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by S on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:50 pm

So the 'other' is that massive Qatari sponsorship agreement they signed recently ?
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by sportsczy on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:53 pm

Shirt sponsorship, stadium sponsor, non-official exhibition games and the international partners...  and it would include the Qatar sponsorship. But i don't think that got signed until summer of 2012 as i recall.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by Gil on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:55 pm

It's a farce. Half the clubs in Europe should be ineligible.
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by sportsczy on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:55 pm

Yeah. That Qatar deal didn't happen until Dec of 2012. It wouldn't be included in 2011-2012 figures:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/sport-business/2012/12/20/20006-20121220ARTFIG00612-le-qatar-offre-un-contrat-en-or-au-psg.php

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by S on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:56 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Shirt sponsorship, stadium sponsor, non-official exhibition games and the international partners... and it would include the Qatar sponsorship. But i don't think that got signed until summer of 2012 as i recall.

I always thought that comes under commercial revenue but i'll believe you on this one.
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by sportsczy on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:59 pm

the term "commercial" in french means commerce as in selling stuff.... totally different meaning that the term in English.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by S on Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:12 pm

I just read this article on Bayern's commercial revenue and this is what it says : (A part of it)

How are Bayern able to achieve such remarkable success in terms of attracting finance into the club, despite possessing some inherent disadvantages in comparison to teams from the big three leagues?

Sponsorship and marketing make up just under half of the overall total commercial revenue, bringing in €82.6m. This is due to the array of sponsors Bayern have been able to attract - the club has Europe's most lucrative shirt sponsorship deal with Deutsche Telekom - who also fulfil the role of the main sponsor of the club. Under the terms of the deal, Bayern are guaranteed €22.5m a season (up from €18m), which rises to €30m depending on the team's overall performance. Given that Bayern won both the Bundesliga and the DFB Pokal last year, as well as reaching the Champions League final, it is no surprise they were able to reap the rewards of this arrangement.
German car maker Audi, who hold a minority stake in the club, supply €10m annually of revenue and another minority shareholder Adidas give €4.5m as the club's kit manufacturers. Total merchandising brought in €38.9m last season and other stadia revenues raised €38.2m. Bayern are in a unique position to attract mega-sponsors as the undisputed largest club of Europe's largest economy Germany. They are also the only German club with a genuine worldwide profile, increasing their attractiveness to potential sponsors.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/02/11/2347301/football-money-league-analysis-bayern-munich-world-no1-in

This is from my understanding of what commercial revenue comprises of.This article is 2 years old and i remember reading it as well when on goal.com.
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by sportsczy on Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:18 pm

It wouldn't make sense since PSG get 25 mil a season just for shirt sponsorship by Emirates... but that may have not been the case in 2011-2012.

25 mil total seems very, very light and almost ridiculous if the term "commercial" is meant in the English sense.  That's why i think it's meant in the French sense.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by S on Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:25 pm

Ok lets just assume the 125m money as part of commercial revenue.So its 150m alone in the commercial department.

And you're saying to me the Qatari agreement hasnt happened yet and when it does they're going to receive 150-200m(?).So that makes 300m from commercial revenue alone ?
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by sportsczy on Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:34 pm

The Qatari deal hadn't happened as of the 2011-2012 financials since the deal happened in Dec 2012... i linked the article above that announced the deal.

Other is everything....  commercial and whatever else.

It would bump up to close to 300 mil with the Qatar deal.  That's correct.

By the way, you could be right that the 25 mil is commercial.  The new shirt deal only took effect this season and they're on the old deal with Adidas as far as shirt manufacturing until summer 2014.  So the commercial revenue could have been that pathetic in 2011-2012 lol.

I think come the 2014 season, they would be pushing 500 mil in revenue.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by Onyx on Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:59 pm

There's nothing wrong with spending money. I don't see why UEFA have to create restrictions for rich clubs to stop them spending. It's not the fault of rich clubs if other clubs don't pay a lot of money for top players.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by B-Mac on Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:13 pm

just wait till United sign a new deal with Nike in 2015 and the General Motors shirt sponsorship begins at $80 million per year the same year dat $$$$ Proud

our last deal with Nike in 2002 was $302 million for 13 years, you can only imagine what the number will be now
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by Firenze on Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:16 pm

well yeah

you have clubs setting using shell corporations to give them 9 figure sponsorship deals
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by ShogunShogun on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:54 am

Madrid spent 90m euros on Cristiano Ronaldo and 80m euros on Zidane, money that wasn't even their own, was loaned from the banks, Uefa and nobody else had a problem. There is no doubt that UEFA created the FFP to prevent smaller clubs breaking the statues que of the elite clubs.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by sportsczy on Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:31 am

@ShogunShogun wrote:Madrid spent 90m euros on Cristiano Ronaldo and 80m euros on Zidane, money that wasn't even their own, was loaned from the banks, Uefa and nobody else had a problem. There is no doubt that UEFA created the FFP to prevent smaller clubs breaking the statues que of the elite clubs.
No interest loans to boot, which were extinguished somehow with real estate that was nowhere near the value of the loan. I'm a Madrid fan... but i also understand that we do get help when we need it.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:33 am

I think from the start it was designed to save face rather than to actually kill the "football bubble". There are too many loopholes and FIFA/UEFA are too corrupt for it to be effective.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by Forza on Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:06 pm

@sportsczy wrote:the term "commercial" in french means commerce as in selling stuff.... totally different meaning that the term in English.  
That is exactly what commercial means in English.
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by sportsczy on Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:24 pm

@Forza wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:the term "commercial" in french means commerce as in selling stuff.... totally different meaning that the term in English.  
That is exactly what commercial means in English.
It's more broad in English while it's very literal in France. A commercial endeavor in English is pretty much anything that involves making money, tangible or intangible. In French, when you say "Commerce", you're talking about selling something very tangible. Just a nuance.

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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by Forza on Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:26 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@Forza wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:the term "commercial" in french means commerce as in selling stuff.... totally different meaning that the term in English.  
That is exactly what commercial means in English.
 It's more broad in English while it's very literal in France.  A commercial endeavor in English is pretty much anything that involves making money, tangible or intangible.  In French, when you say "Commerce", you're talking about selling something very tangible.  Just a nuance.
So in France, Intellectual Property is not a "commercial" thing?
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by sportsczy on Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:34 pm

Sorry i wasn't clear... I'm talking in the presentation of a financial report. You would normally separate commercial revenue and revenue related to intangible items separately. The only time commercial revenue could mean revenue derived from an intangible asset is if the main business of the entity being reported involves intangibles. But even then, it's clumsy. You would never see intellectual property revenue shown as "commercial revenue". You would describe it literally as "intellectual property revenue".



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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by Grooverider on Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:36 pm

The clubs have the money and the power, not Uefa.

What could uefa actually do if the major clubs of europe formed their own league?

Exactly, nothing Razz 
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by SUPERCARTTS on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:11 am

Presumably if and when PSG sell Gameiro and Zlatan, they'll simply off-set the sale in accordance with their purchase of Digne, Cavani and Marquinhos - which will essentially bring down their out-goings.

€100m out
€35m in

Looks a tad better considering they won Ligue 1 and got to the QF of CL
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Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

Post by S on Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:03 am

Europe's governing body claims clubs are benefiting from improved financial stability despite the likes of Monaco and Real Madrid splashing out this summer

Financial Fair Play (FFP) is working well despite the enormous sums being spent in the summer transfer window, according to Uefa general secretary Gianni Infantino.

The likes of Monaco have spent lavish sums over the past two seasons, with the Ligue 1 newboys investing upwards of €130 million this summer alone on new signings - although their absence from European competition allows them certain leeway.

Meanwhile, Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger claimed Real Madrid's proposed €115m bid for Gareth Bale "made a joke" of Uefa's regulations, but Infantino has made it clear that such a sum is easily possible for a club which generates sufficient income.

He told the Press Association: "People see these signings and ask how it can happen with Financial Fair Play but it's possible - if you generate €100m you can spend €100m.

"The other thing which must be taken into account is that a club may have an agreement to pay that over five years, so the cost is €20m for the season.

"The problem comes is if a club doesn't generate €100m but spends it - then there will be disciplinary consequences."

The likes of Malaga and Panathinaikos have been hit with sanctions having failed to adhere to FFP guidelines, and, while Infantino acknowledges that banning clubs from competitions is tough for some to take, he insists Uefa's efforts are paying dividends on the whole.

"No one likes to punish clubs but we will do it," he continued. "In the last five years we have excluded 41 clubs from European competition and eight this season have not been admitted.

"It is quite positive. It shows financial fair play is working and that it's happening right now. Overall losses in European club football are down for the first time, and by several hundreds of millions [of euros]."
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