Re: whats wrong with Ancelotti's Madrid?

by halamadrid2 Sun 29 Sep 2013, 13:13

Forza wrote:Too much pressure on Carlo to play the "star" players. It's one thing to buy an expensive player, and it's another thing to buy an expensive player that you need. The number of attacking players on the field would make you think that this is a 15 yr old's FIFA manager mode game in the 5th season.

This is probably the main reason. He has Jese, Morata and Casemiro on the bench yet they all get poverty mins because all these so called superstarts should play. everyone and their dogs know bale cant play as a rw yet thats where Carlo shoves him. continuing to stick with benzema when he obviously doesn't look interested? whatsup with that. I can continue but ill probably not. the season is long and I cant wait for the copa to come soon enough where these "unrealiable" youngsters can show him what he is missing

Give Coentrao to some other team that can use him as a left winger instead of as a full-back. He doesn't have good enough defensive capabilities to be in a back 4.

the other way round I believe. he would do alot better in a defensive team where he will standout when he makes one decent run and cross. I have said it before this guy is our left sided arbeloa. both are useless attacking wise

The other 3, Arbeloa, Pepe and Ramos aren't really up to scratch.

Arbeloa is a liability and everybody knows that bar Carlo. I don't know what he is thinking everytime he starts him. Pepe is good for a third choice cb and I want to test out nacho there because out of all our cbs including varane he is the best with the ball at his feet. so if carlo insists tge cbs have to do the playmaking at least he wont hoof it up like ramos and pepe

One of the biggest problems is that they have no proper DM.

Khedira is being used as a defensive midfielder - which he is not IMO. He is not tenacious enough in the tackle and I think his distribution skills are not as good as they used to be. I think he might improve his play if he was used as a CM with less defensive responsibilities.

funnily enough Khedira was supposee to be our DM but he has the ball skills of an injured baboon. we baught casemiro as his backup who has out performed him everytime he has been on the pitch but apparently he isn't ready yet

I always said that spending 32 mil on Illara was insane and whilst I don't doubt that Illara is talented, he cannot be expected to play pivot next to Khedira. He really needs a proper hard man playing next to him to relieve the pressure.

Illaramendi was a good buy but he needs a CM infront of him or a b2b who doesn't pass him the ball when he is marked

Di Maria is one of the poorest decision-makers I have ever seen play. He makes good runs and gets into dangerous positions only to cock it up time and time again.

I agree that sometimes he goes brain dead but it would help if there was a cf making runs ahead of him or carvajal playing instead of Arbeloa. his two recent poor games correlates with arbeloa starting the last two games which he hadn't for the previous 4 or so games in the season

by flameas Sun 29 Sep 2013, 13:17

Cant get the balance right between defense and attack. If thats archived than Madrid can be unstoppable. Lack of quality in defense is the biggest problem.

by sportsczy Sun 29 Sep 2013, 13:31

Italian tactics require intelligent players.... most of our guys are mentally challenged tbh. So they don't know how to work within a very structured environment, especially since it was a free-for-all for a while now.

With Carlo, you are not allowed to abandon your assigned area just because. The whole thing is predicated on covering the entire pitch.

Right now, it has nothing to do with our forwards. If you're honest and not a biased hater, you realize that both CR7 and Benz see very little of the ball. Why? Because they cannot dezone by design. They have to stay in the final 1/3. If our buildup fails in getting them the ball, then they might as well get a lawnchair.

The biggest thing with Carlo tactics is that the CBs and the holding mids are supposed to be a very close team... CBs need to help mids break the pressure if the mids can't get up the field AND midfielders are supposed to track their players all the play into the box. We suck at both. Pepe and Ramos are not getting things going... and neither are Khedira and Illara. The only guy that has a brain back there is Modric.

Di Maria has had two very bad games in a row and Isco is pushing too far forward the last 2-3 games.

Most of our guys lack smarts and discipline. Simple as that.

But to be fair, it took 12 months for PSG to look ok with Carlo and even then. PSG rarely played beautiful footy... it became very efficient after a year though.

Edit: Also, carlo attack is based on short passing... not long through balls unless it's open. We're supposed to go to the wings if we cannot play short in the middle of the pitch. But for some reason, we're not doing that. Di Maria is not supposed to go long. The only guys that are allowed to go long IF there isn't a short pass are the CBs to avoid danger. That's it. Only guy that ever made a long pass at PSG was Silva.

by Khaled Sun 29 Sep 2013, 13:49

Dnmac4 wrote:Maybe Atletico is a really good team and Simeone is a really good coach? Could that be the reason RM lost???

I mean I know every good coach is supposed to come right into La Liga and dominate the pathetic league from day one but maybe Ancelotti needs some time to adjust to the way the pathetic Spanish teams play football.

I mean if you look at Atletico's performance's in 2 legs vs Barca and against RM toda plus there undefeated in the league and so far in the CL they are a pretty damn good team.

I know it's hard for some of you to understand because Premfaces and the media have conditioned you to believe every team in La Liga outside Madrid and Barca are crap but this Atletico team is not only good but they play with a mean streak and it's no fun to play against them.

Atletico are a great team no doubt, but its not about last night's games... Real Madrid are playing bad since the start of the season especially away games vs Villareal, Granada, Elche and now at home vs Atletico!

by Khaled Sun 29 Sep 2013, 13:54

danyjr wrote: 5 points is nothing at this point of the season. Besides, why is everyone is forgetting about Atlético? They are currently superior to Barça and if they had a bit of squad depth, I would even put them amongst the title contenders. Simeone has done a great, great job and it is a shame that La Liga's financial system is so *bleep* up otherwise they would put the big two in their place.

Atletico are in great form true, but superior LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun 29 Sep 2013, 14:39

Said from the start that Madrid are horrible imbalanced.

Midfield offers zero to the defense and the defenders are not very good anyway.

There is even less creation than last season and it was obvious to anyone with a brain that Bale and CR will offer nothing defensively.

They will do well in CL though.... why? because they have a very fast team with lots of accurate long range shooters and highly skilled dribblers.

In the CL teams will come out more than they do in La Liga and it will make them dangerous, defense is obviously still a major problem but the counter attack will be a lot more effective in the CL.

He's built Madrid to be indentical to his Milan really, they were exactly the same they didn't really open up stubborn deep defences consistently either and didn't really have any creative players. ( outside of Pirlo)

Lots of speed, lots of long range specialists and lots of dribbling ability which made them dangerous against teams who would open up against them.

by sportsczy Sun 29 Sep 2013, 16:50

When 90% of the players look like absolute crap, including CR7... you have to think that the system is the true issue here. Not saying the system is bad or good. But it's not a simple one. Guys have very specific responsibilities.

With this kind of thing... it's a domino effect. Everyone needs to be on the same page for it to work.

by BarrileteCosmico Sun 29 Sep 2013, 17:14

5 games won, 1 drawn and 1 lost is not at all as bad a result as some of you are making it out to be.

by Onyx Sun 29 Sep 2013, 17:14

Ancelotti needs to be given time. It's barely been 2 months and it's still early in the season. Barca and Atletico will drop points and if we win both clasicos we can win the league. Even if we don't win the league there's always the CL.

by Dante Sun 29 Sep 2013, 17:42

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Said from the start that Madrid are horrible imbalanced.

Midfield offers zero to the defense and the defenders are not very good anyway.

There is even less creation than last season and it was obvious to anyone with a brain that Bale and CR will offer nothing defensively.

They will do well in CL though.... why? because they have a very fast team with lots of accurate long range shooters and highly skilled dribblers.

In the CL teams will come out more than they do in La Liga and it will make them dangerous, defense is obviously still a major problem but the counter attack will be a lot more effective in the CL.

He's built Madrid to be indentical to his Milan really, they were exactly the same they didn't really open up stubborn deep defences consistently either and didn't really have any creative players. ( outside of Pirlo)

Lots of speed, lots of long range specialists and lots of dribbling ability which made them dangerous against teams who would open up against them.

Yeah , Rui Costa , Seedorf and Kaka were hardly creative , not to mention Shevchenko on the occasion Laughing

come on mole..
__

What's wrong with Ancelotti's Madrid? Ancelotti Laughing

. The same Ancelotti who proved again to be too lax and soft with his players . Who when his team lose , raises "the eyebrow" and gets angry when sitting comfortably watching the game.

He then will go out and complain about their mentality / attitude after the game .
Some benching here and there to a couple of players doesn't alter his character or the coach he is. He's tough with players he doesn't like and players he doesn't like don't usualy have a say in his teams anyway.

Despite all that, i don't think they have really serious problems to deal with , they just need more time to find balance . Last night , Atletico had an extraordinary game and it's not like Real gave them anything for free . Their solid defensive display were simply outstanding and Costa's goal gave them the edge to continue on that road , made Real's job even harder because even if they scored , Atletico would be fine with the draw and they would still keep going exactly the same. Ronaldo had a really poor game , like Benzema did. I liked Isco's efforts , but one man alone against such a well prepared defensive machine , can't do anything unexpected. Di Maria basically unbalanced the game with his mistake and the game turned toward's Atletico's favour , not just because of the goal , but like i previously said , they had the upper hand tacticaly from thereafter.

I thought Modric begun well when he entered , but he was less effective as the game went on , again due to Atletico's almost perfect game . Bale didn't impress much either , though he pressed them hard .Should have started obviously , both him and Modric , but Ancelotti is a weird coach sometimes. If i only saw the lineups on the internet , i would think they play away Laughing

I think the situation last night was simple , Ancelotti made a few personal mistakes , Atletico were on excellent form and Real's best players were not on their day , mostly as how they approached the game. Too cautious , few to non risk up front , Ronaldo shut down , Khedira had no sort of stability in his game e.t.c . They haven't find balance yet.

Ancelotti's problem was always , imo, inability or denial to adapt to the opponent , up to an extent . Real has the quality imo , to break any opposition but before anything , Ancelotti has to connect the dots carefully , something i believe he didn't so well last night.

But. It's only normal to have a few unpleasant results like that , especialy when you change a coach like Mourinho who stayed there for 3 years. Ancelotti needs to fix a few things , but nothing serious imo .

by Badamdar Sun 29 Sep 2013, 18:08

Ganso wrote:Out of form CF,headless chickens on the wings,inconsistent/misused playmaker(or maybe no playmaker at all),defensively unstable pivot,defenders who are crap at individual defending and the list goes on

Agree with this

Its all players fault not coach. Madrid have 0 creative player. They had only Ozil and he gone. Headless chickens all over the pitch. How can a coach win a title with such team? Even some weak la liga teams play better football do better passes and one-twos than Madrid

How Mourinho did it? He did it with extreme pressure, physical play, kicking opposition players, mental games and plus he had ozil. But no use he won nothing

This was the only way. Otherwise this team have no required players. They almost lost to Elche. Buying players like Neymar and Silva would change Madrid. But instead they bought another headless chicken

by danyjr Sun 29 Sep 2013, 22:44

Dante wrote:Yeah , Rui Costa , Seedorf and Kaka were hardly creative , not to mention Shevchenko on the occasion :lol:come on mole..
__

What's wrong with Ancelotti's Madrid? Ancelotti . The same Ancelotti who proved again to be too lax and soft with his players . Who when his team lose , raises "the eyebrow" and gets angry when sitting comfortably watching the game.

He then will go out and complain about their mentality / attitude after the game .
Some benching here and there to a couple of players doesn't alter his character or the coach he is. He's tough with players he doesn't like and players he doesn't like don't usualy have a say in his teams anyway.

Despite all that, i don't think they have really serious problems to deal with , they just need more time to find balance . Last night , Atletico had an extraordinary game and it's not like Real gave them anything for free . Their solid defensive display were simply outstanding and Costa's goal gave them the edge to continue on that road , made Real's job even harder because even if they scored , Atletico would be fine with the draw and they would still keep going exactly the same. Ronaldo had a really poor game , like Benzema did. I liked Isco's efforts , but one man alone against such a well prepared defensive machine , can't do anything unexpected. Di Maria basically unbalanced the game with his mistake and the game turned toward's Atletico's favour , not just because of the goal , but like i previously said , they had the upper hand tacticaly from thereafter.

I thought Modric begun well when he entered , but he was less effective as the game went on , again due to Atletico's almost perfect game . Bale didn't impress much either , though he pressed them hard .Should have started obviously , both him and Modric , but Ancelotti is a weird coach sometimes. If i only saw the lineups on the internet , i would think they play away

I think the situation last night was simple , Ancelotti made a few personal mistakes , Atletico were on excellent form and Real's best players were not on their day , mostly as how they approached the game. Too cautious , few to non risk up front , Ronaldo shut down , Khedira had no sort of stability in his game e.t.c . They haven't find balance yet.

Ancelotti's problem was always , imo, inability or denial to adapt to the opponent , up to an extent . Real has the quality imo , to break any opposition but before anything , Ancelotti has to connect the dots carefully , something i believe he didn't so well last night.

But. It's only normal to have a few unpleasant results like that , especialy when you change a coach like Mourinho who stayed there for 3 years. Ancelotti needs to fix a few things , but nothing serious imo .

Superb post.

by VanDeezNuts Sun 29 Sep 2013, 23:26

5 points this early and madrid are done? without even playing a single clasico?

true there is less margin for error in la liga but lets be real, if this was mid to late season there would be cause for concern but barca will drop points, and atletico will drop points and madrid will also drop points.. its who is more consistent throughout 9 or so months not 1 month.

by Valkyrja Sun 29 Sep 2013, 23:49

Everyone knows that Atletico won't be in top 2 by the end of the season. The title battle will still be between Barca and Madrid.

by KantLogic Wed 02 Oct 2013, 16:15

Valkyrja wrote:Everyone knows that Atletico won't be in top 2 by the end of the season. The title battle will still be between Barca and Madrid.

sorry but this atletico seems constistent enough to deserve hope from everyone that this season's la liga won't be a two horse race

they look good both domestically and continentally

by Blue Barrett Wed 02 Oct 2013, 18:43

Manager is successful in previous stints. Comes to Madrid, team begins to perform badly. Madrid fans say manager is overrated. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Hello? Have you lot ever thought about the fact that maybe just maybe your players are shit(or at least performing like it)?

by Grooverider Wed 02 Oct 2013, 18:48

Blue Barrett wrote:Manager is successful in previous stints. Comes to Madrid, team begins to perform badly. Madrid fans say manager is overrated. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Hello? Have you lot ever thought about the fact that maybe just maybe your players are shit(or at least performing like it)?

fair comment

by Rebaño Sagrado Wed 02 Oct 2013, 19:07

KantLogic wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:Everyone knows that Atletico won't be in top 2 by the end of the season. The title battle will still be between Barca and Madrid.
sorry but this atletico seems constistent enough to deserve hope from everyone that this season's la liga won't be a two horse race

they look good both domestically and continentally

They wont be able to handle both competitions for a title run. They will settle for 3rd in the league and probably make a deeprun in CL.

by ExtremistEnigma Wed 02 Oct 2013, 19:09

Blue Barrett wrote:Manager is successful in previous stints. Comes to Madrid, team begins to perform badly. Madrid fans say manager is overrated. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Hello? Have you lot ever thought about the fact that maybe just maybe your players are shit(or at least performing like it)?

Ironically, same is applicable to Chelsea. Laughing

by Blue Barrett Wed 02 Oct 2013, 19:10

Only manager we've called "overrated" in some form was AVB. No, it does not apply to Chelsea.

by danyjr Wed 02 Oct 2013, 19:13

Let's just say Madrid fans/media humble every coach and player who passes through their club's door, yet the fans are never humbled themselves.

by Gil Wed 02 Oct 2013, 19:13

ExtremistEnigma wrote:
Blue Barrett wrote:Manager is successful in previous stints. Comes to Madrid, team begins to perform badly. Madrid fans say manager is overrated. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Hello? Have you lot ever thought about the fact that maybe just maybe your players are shit(or at least performing like it)?
Ironically, same is applicable to Chelsea.

Not really.

Rafa had his fair share of detractors but the majority simply didn't want at the club not because of his managerial CV but because we didn't like him. Especially replacing a club legend in Di Matteo.

by ExtremistEnigma Wed 02 Oct 2013, 19:14

I don't exactly mean the same way, you lot have always blamed the manager when things went wrong. Even Mou has endured shock defeats so far. The truth is your team is imbalanced.. stacked in attacking areas but non-existent midfield.

by Blue Barrett Wed 02 Oct 2013, 19:30

ExtremistEnigma wrote:I don't exactly mean the same way, you lot have always blamed the manager when things went wrong. Even Mou has endured shock defeats so far. The truth is your team is imbalanced.. stacked in attacking areas but non-existent midfield.

No we've not "always blamed the manager." AVB was clueless but we blamed a lot of players too. Malouda, Kalou, Torres, etc all performed like pub players during AVB's stint. I think that was the season where Malouda & Kalou(save for his 1 or 2 good defensive jobs late in the 2012 CL) really fell out with the fans as far as performances go.

Carlo made some mistakes in his second season but you'll only find a minority who placed blame on him. In fact, I'm sure 95% of Chelsea fans were furious when he was given the boot. We're reasonable enough to know that one of the reasons we underperformed that season was Roman buying Torres when Carlo didn't really want him and he didn't fit the system either. That and other factors - which I couldn't be bothered to go into right now - contributed a lot more than Carlo's own shortcomings.

You'll be hard pressed to find a fan who put all the blame on the managers, not even Rafa got stick for his coaching even when he wasn't helping us pick up points. All the venom for Rafa was simply as Gil said, we didn't like him or want him(for other reasons). Even RDM despite a shaky defense and all, wasn't blamed for anything. FFS no one even blamed Ranieri, at least not nearly enough to want him gone or in an unreasonable way.

You're reaching here.

by LeSwagg James Wed 02 Oct 2013, 20:52

Our defense has been horrible, it's been shit for the past decade actually, but it's really really bad right now..

Ancelotti needs time to implement his offense also, we're all over the place and we don't have a real identity at the moment..

It's pretty straightforward to be honest

by Eivindo Wed 02 Oct 2013, 21:39

Basically all managers that coach Madrid no matter how many CL trophies they have are shat Razz

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