Where do Dortmund go from here?

They have lost Kagawa, Götze, soon Lewandowski and Gündogan doesn't seem in a hurry to renew either. That is pretty much the core of their team. So where do they go from here? How far can Klopp's "heavy metal high tempo get in your face for 90 minutes" tactics carry them? Obviously you can't replace the afromentioned talents just like that, even with the best scouting network. Dortmund's combinational play in tight spaces has already suffered drastically IMO compared to 2 years ago. Something has to give. Do you see them challenging domestically in the next few years? In the Champions League?

And, on a side note, what do you make of Sheik ownership when you see a team like Dortmund? They did everything the correct way. They build a CL final team spending almost next to nothing, only through astute management and scouting. But their players all leave once the established teams come knocking, even to direct rivals. There isn't even a sporting reason like let's say RVP to United at the time. Dortmund were actually winning trophies. How can they possibly become a big fish themselves under such circumstances without a big investor offering the players big contracts like Manchester City do (City are a smaller club than Dortmund historically but their star players don't leave for obvious reasons).

Well, people already started writing eulogies when Dortmund lost Lucas Barrios. Then they pronounced them dead when Nuri Sahin (then the best player of the whole Bundesliga) left.

Of course they are always in the need to keep up their top scouting, but ever since they returned from almost-bankruptcy in 2005, they managed to keep their stride, no matter what.

With the CEO team Watze/Zorc firmly in place and Kloppo contracted till 2018, I can't see Dortmund going down. They are getting better and better sponsor contracts, and mind you, they are by now the second most earning team in the BL. If they keep up their attractive brand of football, more sponsors and more money will follow, and then they will be able to offer their players more money, too. It just needs meticulous planning and some time.

Lots of posters predicted this situation to occur, only to be attacked by Bundeslegacy for supposedly being wrong.

Like Klopp said some teams are 'sexier' than BVB. Which is understandable, every player out there wants to play for the likes of Bayern, Barça and Madrid.

It's sad how a team like BVB build a great team only to lose it all after a year or two. And they didn't spend much, most of their players are the results of great scouting or products from the youth system.

Glad that I'm not the only one who has noticed there combinational play in tight spaces has suffered a lot. Think that has to do with replacing Mkhitaryan with Goetze, they replaced a creative genius with a player who's best asset is off the ball. Watching them play today, they create less chances and there isn't that much creativity in the final third.

I wonder how long it will take until Klopp gives in, what's the point of constantly building a new team only to lose your players after a year or 2?

Key thing is they still have enough talent to make CL every year and thereby collecting important revenue from CL.Obviously they are not going to make the latter rounds all the time,the competition is too fierce and increasing by the day ,but i think they'll be there or thereabouts.Maybe an Arsenal-esque period can follow for a few years,and in time with their financial situation improving ,they can perhaps cement an elite status in the football world.

But still,one cant say for sure though especially with foreign ownership is becoming a common thing nowadays.I dont think anyone saw Ligue 1 becoming this relevant 2-3 years ago for example,i certainly didnt.

Dortmund didn't use the correct way to create stars. There is no correct way. There's nothing wrong with spending to buy players. It looks like Dortmund will eventually have to do that to stay at a high level. If they refuse to do that, then what happened to Arsenal could happen to them. Either that or they have to hope to create new stars.

They're lucky they're in a league that only has one elite team, so it's easier for them to beat inferior teams and top the table.

The reality is that nowadays is that if you want to retain your best players you need money, success and ambition. The prospect of bigger wages, playing with the best players and a better chance of sustained success is too great a pull for most players to resist, and it seems the only way to counter that is to offer the same or hope that they remain loyal to you. To reach that point, you need consistent Champions League football and better commercial deals, and I think Dortmund will get there eventually.

In the mean time, I don't see Dortmund fading away that much. They managed to replace Barrios with Lewandowski, Sahin with Gundogan and Kagawa with Reus and still be successful. They're a wealthier and more attractive proposition now than they were then, too. So I see little reason why they can't rebuild a competitive team. It might not happen right away, but Klopp has already shown his ability to build teams. And from what I can see, there doesn't appear to be anyone else in Bundesliga that are threatening to catch up, other than, perhaps, Leverkusen.

They're done.

It's hard to say now. We heard this before but they always managed to replace their best players with even better ones. Lewandoski has left, Reus and Gundogan might leave too and they easily get over 70 million from these two. If they get adequate replacements with that money like they have done in the past, I think they are going to be fine.

They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

Only as long as King Pep stays in Bavaria

free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?

M99 wrote:

free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

See Arsenal.

free_cat wrote:

M99 wrote:

free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Completely agreed.

S wrote:

free_cat wrote:

M99 wrote:

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Completely agreed.

Or its a smart management of resources where you sacrifice one goal to achieve another (a more important trophy in every way)

Dortmund has already the second highes revenue of all clubs in the Bundesliga. If Klopp and the management are as good as people always claim they should have absolutely no problem to finish 2nd or at least 3rd for the next few years. They need to play in the CL constantly and of course to reach at least the round of the last 16 constantly. If they can do that they'll grow financially futher. To be honest it's really not as hard as I often read. They are the second biggest club (revenue) and to grow all they need is really to finish 3rd or even 4th and play decent in Europe.

zizzle wrote:

S wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Completely agreed.

Or its a smart management of resources where you sacrifice one goal to achieve another (a more important trophy in every way)

Yeah of course lol.
They might say *bleep* the league once they are in the quarters or semis if they are out of the title race already like Chelsea but that's it.

zizzle wrote:

S wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Completely agreed.

Or its a smart management of resources where you sacrifice one goal to achieve another (a more important trophy in every way)

I am not denying that though.Dortmund should actually aim to do that.They have already(almost) managed it once.I dont think they have a problem in finishing in CL places regularly in the near future either so they should think about prioritizing CL a lot more.

free_cat wrote:

M99 wrote:

free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Well:

First, we don't compete in a two horse league like you do.

Second, from 2003-2007, we have been in 3 finals winning two, and one semi and another quarter final.

Third, after 2005, were competing with a squad spread thin and old because of Calciopoli.

Fourth, by all account, we were the team to beat in those years in Europe, and losing against the insanely deep Juve and then Inter in Serie A is no shame and does not degrade us being the greatest in Europe by any stretch.

free_cat wrote:

M99 wrote:

free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Oh, I thought you meant Milan were lucky and won the CL tournament by fluke. I see your point even though I don't agree with it. As zizzle said, smart management of resources can make you win CL while sacrificing the league which will make you win a more important trophy while also gaining qualification to the next CL. Yeah Dortmund should try to do that, Bayern's dominance is not going to end any time soon, they should concentrate most on CL.

I'm sure the Liberated Feline (and everyone else for that matter) knows very well how difficult it is to win both the domestic league AND a European title.

It's a bit of a catch 22. They need the funds to keep their quality players under contract. Since they don't have the financial backing of the elite, they need to sell players to get those funds, but quality players will only stay (or new quality players will only come to the club) if they keep those quality players like Lewa, Gundogan etc.

you have to spend or else you can't win. Or at least, not for long... Thats the game now and it is almost completely run by money.

lf you don't spend, you might best case scenario, achieve what dortmund did, but you can't maintain that for long..lts not long before the iron hammer of the rich teams comes slamming down just to remind people whos in charge.. They don't take kindly to teams like dortmund who think they can come in and take their titles and glory away from them..

lts impossible to keep reloading or keeping your current players happy without spending.

ln order to contend all the time they need more money to spend... Thats just how football is now.

VendettaRed07 wrote:you have to spend or else you can't win. Or at least, not for long... Thats the game now and it is almost completely run by money.

lf you don't spend, you might best case scenario, achieve what dortmund did, but you can't maintain that for long..lts not long before the iron hammer of the rich teams comes slamming down just to remind people whos in charge.. They don't take kindly to teams like dortmund who think they can come in and take their titles and glory away from them..

lts impossible to keep reloading or keeping your current players happy without spending.

ln order to contend all the time they need more money to spend... Thats just how football is now.

Might just be me, but somehow I'm sensing a lot of butthurt outta this post...

ExtremistEnigma wrote:

VendettaRed07 wrote:you have to spend or else you can't win. Or at least, not for long... Thats the game now and it is almost completely run by money.

lf you don't spend, you might best case scenario, achieve what dortmund did, but you can't maintain that for long..lts not long before the iron hammer of the rich teams comes slamming down just to remind people whos in charge.. They don't take kindly to teams like dortmund who think they can come in and take their titles and glory away from them..

lts impossible to keep reloading or keeping your current players happy without spending.

ln order to contend all the time they need more money to spend... Thats just how football is now.

Might just be me, but somehow I'm sensing a lot of butthurt outta this post...

l get why you would think, most seem to also agree my perspective is such here.. but just trust me that ts not butthurt.. lf you are talking about from an arsenal perspective.. lts not the same as dortmunds situation. Arsenal did not always use their resources to the best of their ability. Rather than rewarding first team players with high wages, often opted to keep around deadwood on highwages, and going for the two for the price of one type transfers, rather than forking out an extra two or three million in order to aquire a much better, higher rated player. Arsenals situation had more to do with mismanagement of available funds rather than the lack of it.

But let me just make it clear..there is nothing wrong with spending money, however there is something l suppose that feels unsportsman-like about the relation between a team like dortmund and bayern,

Dortmund is like a poor man who could never afford a shovel.. And spent his time digging through the dirt, scratching away in order to find diamonds hidden in the rough... He used his intelligence, despite the lack of tools to find hidden treasures where nobody else thought to look... But as he got better others started to notice his success.. And when he wasn't looking, a rich man hit him over the back of the head with a golden shovel and took all his findings as the poor man laid in the dirt unconscious..

ln this game and world of football, you need a shovel, not just to make it easier and faster to find the treasures around the world, but to also use as a tool defend yourself from others trying to take your findings.