THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Busby Babe Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:29 am
Found it in more detail
Rio on the manager that didn't fit in at Man Utd
The ban on chips
Cutting our wings off
Changing practices
Making us cross
Small club mentality
Avoiding confrontation
Players left in the cold
Rio on the manager that didn't fit in at Man Utd
- Spoiler:
- MOST of the problems with Moyes seemed to come together for the match that effectively ended our season.
Travelling to Bayern Munich (in the Champions League, having being dumped out of all of the domestic competitions) I was desperate to play and I knew I must be in the team — but on the morning of the game everything seemed wrong.
To practise our set pieces and stuff we went to a public park. It was bizarre! Local people started coming from all over to watch us and take photos and videos.
It was amateurish. I mean, why not just send Bayern an email or a DVD? But worse was to come.
As we’re standing there in public on this bit of grass, the manager just taps me on the shoulder and says: “Rio, listen, I’m not going to play you. I feel we need a bit more pace in the back line.”
It killed me. Inside I wanted to scream and grab him. I’m a team player, so I just had to bite my tongue and stand there. But it was probably the worst single moment I ever had at United.
I’d never been dropped for a big a game like that — and to drop that on me in front of everybody.
Several teammates told me later that my reaction was something they’d never seen from me before.
I went into a daze and even took my anger onto the coach as we waited for him to finish set pieces with the first 11.
I’d never shown my feelings like that in front of my teammates so openly before.
I knew my time at United was coming to an end.
Not being involved in the game, at least I had the chance to watch how it all went wrong.
Sir Alex Ferguson used to give simple, concise, clear instructions.
But before the game, Moyes said that depending how Bayern played, we could use three formations!
He’d let the lads know which one when the game got underway. Danny Welbeck was going to play on the right... or it could be on the left... or behind.
Shinji Kagawa was definitely going to play behind, or the left...
We lost and 13 days later Moyes was sacked — although it wasn’t done in a dignified way, with rumours circulating for almost two days before putting him out of his misery.
I had been very optimistic when he arrived. He was a genuine guy and no one could have worked harder.
He was always the first into the training ground and the last to leave.
He had tried to impose a vision but never seemed to be completely clear what that vision should be.
Unintentionally, he created a negative vibe where, with Fergie, it had always been positive.
He’d slowly lost us. I didn’t enjoy playing under him — long before the end, I’d decided to leave if he was going to stay.
But it wasn’t that Moyes had made one big mistake, it was an accumulation of mistakes.
The ban on chips
- Spoiler:
- Footballers are creatures of habit and for as long as I can remember at United, it was a ritual that we had low-fat chips the night before a game. We loved our chips.
But Moyes comes in and, after his first week, he says we can’t have chips any more.
We weren’t eating badly. In fact, you’d struggle to find a more professional bunch of players than the ones at Manchester United in the summer of 2013.
Then suddenly, for no good reason we could see, it was “no chips”. It’s not something to go to the barricades over. But all the lads were p***ed off.
And guess what happened after Moyes left and Ryan Giggs took over?
Moyes has been gone about 20 minutes, we’re on the bikes warming up for the first training session without him and one of the lads says: “You know what? We’ve got to get onto Giggsy.
“We’ve got to get him to get us our f***ing chips back.”
The pre-match walk Moyes had us going for ten-minute walks together the morning of a game.
We’d never done it before, no one enjoyed it and no one liked it.
I know some people will think we’re being prima donnas but a lot of what we do in a team environment is a question of habit and feeling comfortable.
When lots of little things start changing it’s destabilising.
It doesn’t matter if you are a footballer or working behind a machine in a factory.
Cutting our wings off
- Spoiler:
- A bigger problem was his approach to tactics. Moyes obviously wanted us to change our style... but we weren’t sure what he wanted to change it to.
On our pre-season tour he told me and a couple of others that he wanted us to play a narrow 4–2–2–2 with the wide players coming inside.
I remember thinking: “Have you not read up on this club’s history? This club was built on wingers. It only goes back about 100 years!”
Cristiano Ronaldo, David Beckham, Ryan Giggs, Steve Coppell, Willie Morgan, George Best... that’s quite a tradition.
Changing practices
- Spoiler:
- Moyes’ innovations mostly led to negativity and confusion.
Under Fergie, for example, before a game on a Saturday we always played a small-sided match on a small pitch on the Friday.
We loved it.
We’d get into the mood for the following day by expressing ourselves, having fun, trying stuff out.
You got your touch right, experimented, got the feeling flowing.
We’d done that for years and suddenly — again for no good reason — Moyes changed it by making us play two-touch.
It was especially bad for the forwards who liked to practise their skills and shots and movements. They felt restricted.
You’d come off the pitch feeling blocked, frustrated, like you hadn’t had a chance to express yourself.
We complained but nothing changed. Then people wondered why we looked cramped and played without imagination.
Trying not to lose For years we were one of the best teams at not conceding goals. Fergie’s approach was to focus on the opposition’s weakness.
Yet with Moyes it was always how to stop the other side.
Before every game, he made a point of showing us videos of how dangerous the other team could be.
On the morning of a game we’d spend half an hour on the training ground, drilling to stop them.
There was so much attention to the subject it suddenly became a worry — they must be f***ing good at this to have us spend all this time on it.
That was the different mentality — Moyes set us up not to lose whereas we’d been accustomed to playing to win.
Losing support I think Moyes was entitled to bring some of his staff from Everton but it was an absolute mistake not to keep United stalwarts like the first team coach Mike Phelan, who knew all the quirks and sensitivities of the players.
It meant Moyes missed a lot of the subtleties about players and the culture of United.
Making us cross
- Spoiler:
- The biggest confusion was over how he wanted us to move the ball forward.
Often he told us to play it long. Some players felt they kicked the ball long more than at any time in their career.
Sometimes our main tactic was the long, high, diagonal cross. It was embarrassing.
In one home game against Fulham we had 81 crosses! I was thinking, why are we doing this? Andy Carroll doesn’t play for us!
The whole approach was alien. Other times Moyes wanted lots of passing.
He’d say: “Today I want us to have 600 passes in the game. Last week it was only 400.”
Who cares? I’d rather score five goals from ten passes!
Small club mentality
- Spoiler:
- Moyes brought the mentality of a smaller club. I never had the feeling Moyes knew how to speak like a Manchester United manager.
You’d pick up the paper and see him saying things like “we aspire to be like Man City” or Liverpool were favourites against us.
But this wasn’t Everton, it was Manchester United. We don’t want to survive. We want to win.
Rio Ferdinand's book Ace's new book It was as if he had no confidence in our abilities.
We doubted everything
The mixed messages were even worse. Sometimes he’d say, “I want you to pass the ball.”
Other days it was: “I don’t want you to pass the ball.”
What the f*** do you want us to do, man?
In the pool you heard a lot of guys complaining: “I just don’t know what he wants.”
He had me doubting everything.
In September, after Man City beat us 4–1, he called me and Vida (Nemanja Vidic) into a meeting with the video analysis guy.
“I want to show you a few things,” said the manager.
He had about 15 clips to show us but we never got past clip five.
We talked for about 40 minutes and came out none the wiser. It got pretty heated.
In one instance, Moyes said: “You could have been tighter on Sergio Aguero... ”
I pointed out he was the quickest player in the league, so if they’ve got players good enough to put the ball anywhere they want, going ultra-tight was asking for trouble.
Maybe he had a good point but he never got it across.
Me and Vida came out of there and looked at each other.
“I don’t know what the f*** he just asked us to do,” I said.
Avoiding confrontation
- Spoiler:
I had the feeling Moyes just wanted to cut the whole video meeting short because he didn’t like confrontation.
That was another difference. Fergie would dig out anyone if he felt it would improve the team — but bad feeling would never be allowed to fester.
Players left in the cold
- Spoiler:
- A part of the art of being United manager is to rotate your squad and keep everyone happy.
At Everton and other clubs below the very top you’ve only probably got 13 players in the squad who believe they should be playing every week, based on their ability.
But at Manchester United you’ve got 22 to 25 internationals who have won titles and cups and they all believe they should start.
Take Chicharito (Javier Hernandez), he was happy for three years.
Moyes starts treating him differently and his confidence goes.
You need to give players the arm around the shoulder.
Players live to play and we feel disappointed and hurt if we’re not picked.
Looking back, I’d say David Moyes was unlucky. He and Manchester United were just oil and water somehow.
His ideas weren’t bad in themselves, they just didn’t fit with the group of players and the tradition and recent history of the club.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by RED Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:06 am
That is pretty damning.
Some of the stuff being said there, about Moyes' indecision, his tactics, his bizarre approach and his awful man management, you wonder how his career will recover from this.
It's like reading amateur hour.
What I find amusing is that Rio pinpointed all the concerns that we had on this forum, on United blogs, news feeds etc. We all got it spot on. Scary how our worst fears at the time have been pretty much now confirmed.
Some of the stuff being said there, about Moyes' indecision, his tactics, his bizarre approach and his awful man management, you wonder how his career will recover from this.
It's like reading amateur hour.
What I find amusing is that Rio pinpointed all the concerns that we had on this forum, on United blogs, news feeds etc. We all got it spot on. Scary how our worst fears at the time have been pretty much now confirmed.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Busby Babe Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:43 am
It's worse, the park stuff sounds bonkers.
I think most of the squad felt like this, probably Januzaj and Rooney being the only exceptions to this.
Anyway, I was on Rio's side during the whole thing, mainly because I was just anti-Moyes more than being pro Rio. But now, that it's over, and can look back at it rationally, Rio is a twat, like a colossal twat. We can add phasing Rio out on one of the things Moyes did right. He said, he told Januzaj, well a 19 year old, but we all know he was talking about Januzaj, to stop crying after being dropped. Which is fine, he should man up, but no reason to say that public about the lad, quite hypocritical when he also had a very negative reaction to getting dropped by Moyes.
Don't get me wrong, Rio did some great stuff, like helping Blackett out, but complaining about low fat Chips and taking walks pre-match walks, that type of stuff is really petty. I get feeling annoyed about Moyes' tactics, but this makes him sound like a real diva.
When you see the leaders of the team react like this, no side of the fan base was 100% right on Moyes, it's quite clear Moyes was out of the depth, but he never had the backing of the team either and that's a shame because the fans were willing to give him a chance. No reason for the players not to also.
He’d slowly lost us. I didn’t enjoy playing under him — long before the end, I’d decided to leave if he was going to stay.
I think most of the squad felt like this, probably Januzaj and Rooney being the only exceptions to this.
Anyway, I was on Rio's side during the whole thing, mainly because I was just anti-Moyes more than being pro Rio. But now, that it's over, and can look back at it rationally, Rio is a twat, like a colossal twat. We can add phasing Rio out on one of the things Moyes did right. He said, he told Januzaj, well a 19 year old, but we all know he was talking about Januzaj, to stop crying after being dropped. Which is fine, he should man up, but no reason to say that public about the lad, quite hypocritical when he also had a very negative reaction to getting dropped by Moyes.
Don't get me wrong, Rio did some great stuff, like helping Blackett out, but complaining about low fat Chips and taking walks pre-match walks, that type of stuff is really petty. I get feeling annoyed about Moyes' tactics, but this makes him sound like a real diva.
When you see the leaders of the team react like this, no side of the fan base was 100% right on Moyes, it's quite clear Moyes was out of the depth, but he never had the backing of the team either and that's a shame because the fans were willing to give him a chance. No reason for the players not to also.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by RED Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:48 pm
I dislike what he did about Adnan, but everything else, I have no problem with him for what he did.
I commend him for coming out and exposing that mediocre, media darling- Moyes. Who did no wrong in their eyes during his tenure at the club.
Whether it's petty or not, it doesn't bother me. As long as it reveals the extent of last season's disasters.
I commend him for coming out and exposing that mediocre, media darling- Moyes. Who did no wrong in their eyes during his tenure at the club.
Whether it's petty or not, it doesn't bother me. As long as it reveals the extent of last season's disasters.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Busby Babe Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:53 pm
Remember that Andy guy from the FullTimeDevils' videos? 
https://vine.co/v/OqiOLPWuJn9
https://vine.co/v/OqwriPpnKqL
https://vine.co/v/OqxI2UbLlu9
https://vine.co/v/OqULuI7ArZE
https://vine.co/v/OqxZi0XOlBd
https://vine.co/v/OqiOLPWuJn9
https://vine.co/v/OqwriPpnKqL
https://vine.co/v/OqxI2UbLlu9
https://vine.co/v/OqULuI7ArZE
https://vine.co/v/OqxZi0XOlBd
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Robespierre Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:04 am
Some rumours say he can be our future manager if Mazzarri gets sacked ( and I think it's not difficult because we are really really scrub this year 
) , what do you think about this guy ? 
) , what do you think about this guy ? 
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Busby Babe Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:11 am
Thohrir really likes Man Utd?
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Robespierre Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:14 am
His children support Manchester United.
And this makes me confident about the fact that he listened many insults towards Moyes
And this makes me confident about the fact that he listened many insults towards Moyes
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by B-Mac Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:31 am
Busby Babe wrote:Remember that Andy guy from the FullTimeDevils' videos?
https://vine.co/v/OqiOLPWuJn9
https://vine.co/v/OqwriPpnKqL
https://vine.co/v/OqxI2UbLlu9
https://vine.co/v/OqULuI7ArZE
https://vine.co/v/OqxZi0XOlBd
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Busby Babe Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:14 pm
In stitches
Apparently, they've tried to get him back, but he refuses to
Apparently, they've tried to get him back, but he refuses to
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by RED Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:42 pm
Bruh...those vines have floored me in fits of laughter
I think he has watched himself become a laughing stock, that's why he's refusing anymore camera time
That thick Mancunian accent though, sheesh- "feuoool". LOL
We all felt that pain after being battered by our 2 hated rivals back to back
Classic FTD moment along with mr Bobbins
I think he has watched himself become a laughing stock, that's why he's refusing anymore camera time
That thick Mancunian accent though, sheesh- "feuoool". LOL
We all felt that pain after being battered by our 2 hated rivals back to back
Classic FTD moment along with mr Bobbins
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by RED Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:44 pm
Oh and Robes, i don't wish Moyes on your club. frigging hell. Stay well clear of that mediocre dinosaur. Your board would be lunatic to have him as an option. A club of Inter's prestige can do a lot better.
Someone needs to let your board rewatch our catastrophic season under him.
Someone needs to let your board rewatch our catastrophic season under him.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Robespierre Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:02 pm
If it will happen , I will open THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREADPART II just 1 minute after it is official
Although our president cares about former United management ( we just signed also a man called James White ) tbf I think it is just Moyes to offer himself , I mean he is going to watch next EL match at stadium . As a vulture . Probably he thinks to deserve still a top club (although we have just the name or prestige now) because he thinks to not be the main guilty for the last ugly season
ffs he is average tactically but it is not even this his main defect , he can't tolerate pressure . It is everything in a top club.
And even in Everton he showed it . That Everton-Wigan 0-3 of FA Cup , one of few chances for Everton to fight for a cup..
Although our president cares about former United management ( we just signed also a man called James White ) tbf I think it is just Moyes to offer himself , I mean he is going to watch next EL match at stadium . As a vulture . Probably he thinks to deserve still a top club (although we have just the name or prestige now) because he thinks to not be the main guilty for the last ugly season
ffs
he is average tactically but it is not even this his main defect , he can't tolerate pressure . It is everything in a top club.And even in Everton he showed it . That Everton-Wigan 0-3 of FA Cup , one of few chances for Everton to fight for a cup..
Last edited by Robespierre on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Glory Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:08 pm
why the hell Inter want him. 
What qualities are they seeing in him to select of all people this cartoon. I am sure its just a rumor. He himself would have circulated this story to buy him cheap publicity.
His place should be in the championship. Low league mentality moron.
What qualities are they seeing in him to select of all people this cartoon. I am sure its just a rumor. He himself would have circulated this story to buy him cheap publicity.His place should be in the championship. Low league mentality moron.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Robespierre Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:09 pm
The man still insists
Moyes: “I believed Manchester United would have supported their coaches. I have been in touch with many Italian clubs ”
His adventure at Manchester United was not memorable. It was hard to take Sir Alex Ferguson’s place in Old Trafford fans’ heart. However, David Moyes has no regrets and, after being disappointed, is now ready for a new adventure. He talked to BBC Sport: “I am waiting for the right offer. I am very ambitious and I would have never left Everton but for a bigger club. I hope next club will give me the opportunity to build a team and let me work with talented players. Not like happened at Manchester. Many clubs contacted me but none offered me anything. They were not the right ones. Manchester United made me sign a six-year contract, I thought I would have a chance to complete the project. I believed they would have supported their coaches. Ferguson didn’t do well at the beginning. I lost a few games but I never thought they would have fired me. Van Gaal has lot of experience. They should give him the opportunity to build his own team.
http://gianlucadimarzio.com/en/calciomercato/moyes-i-believed-manchester-united-would-have-supported-their-coaches-i-have-been-in-touch-with-many-italian-clubs/
Moyes: “I believed Manchester United would have supported their coaches. I have been in touch with many Italian clubs ”
His adventure at Manchester United was not memorable. It was hard to take Sir Alex Ferguson’s place in Old Trafford fans’ heart. However, David Moyes has no regrets and, after being disappointed, is now ready for a new adventure. He talked to BBC Sport: “I am waiting for the right offer. I am very ambitious and I would have never left Everton but for a bigger club. I hope next club will give me the opportunity to build a team and let me work with talented players. Not like happened at Manchester. Many clubs contacted me but none offered me anything. They were not the right ones. Manchester United made me sign a six-year contract, I thought I would have a chance to complete the project. I believed they would have supported their coaches. Ferguson didn’t do well at the beginning. I lost a few games but I never thought they would have fired me. Van Gaal has lot of experience. They should give him the opportunity to build his own team.
http://gianlucadimarzio.com/en/calciomercato/moyes-i-believed-manchester-united-would-have-supported-their-coaches-i-have-been-in-touch-with-many-italian-clubs/
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by B-Mac Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:16 pm
o god...ya because ferguson taking over almost 3 decades ago is the same as it is today with the money involved in football... plus his downfall was there was no sign of improvement all through the season....what he had them doing wasn't working but he just kept throwing out same formation every week and hoping it would come good with the same playing style, he even admitted at one point he didn't know what to do.
moyes mindset is as prehistoric as his tactics
moyes mindset is as prehistoric as his tactics
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Robespierre Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:27 pm
I am very ambitious and I would have never left Everton but for a bigger club.
Many clubs contacted me ( ) but none offered me anything.
these words confirm my thought about the fact he thinks to be till a manager good for a top club and he is trying to offer himself to Inter, infact he is going to watch EL match at San Siro. I hope someone won't fall into the trap
it's fantastic that " I have been in touch with many Italian clubs ” though , he is even not crafty , there weren't many free benches and I don't think some club as Lazio or Milan thought to him lol
I think he was contacted seriously only from Celtic Glasgow, on the other hand they signed Ronny Delia, let alone if they didn'tr try to take a Scottish manager born in Glasgow made in Celtic grown in Premier League..
Many clubs contacted me (
) but none offered me anything.these words confirm my thought about the fact he thinks to be till a manager good for a top club and he is trying to offer himself to Inter, infact he is going to watch EL match at San Siro. I hope someone won't fall into the trap
it's fantastic that " I have been in touch with many Italian clubs ” though , he is even not crafty , there weren't many free benches and I don't think some club as Lazio or Milan thought to him lol
I think he was contacted seriously only from Celtic Glasgow, on the other hand they signed Ronny Delia, let alone if they didn'tr try to take a Scottish manager born in Glasgow made in Celtic grown in Premier League..
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Busby Babe Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:51 pm
Many clubs contacted me but none offered me anything. They were not the right ones.
Acting like it's his decision, when it really wasn't his decision
It was really difficult when I lost the job initially because I didn't really see it coming, even though I had been losing games.
- Spoiler:
-
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Zero Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:39 am
Tbf Inter in recent years are only interested in midtable coaches.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Busby Babe Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:15 pm
Sir Alex Ferguson: David Moyes’s Manchester United failure not my fault
• Former manager hits back at critics in updated book
• ‘Massive jump’ from Everton proved too big for Moyes
• Playing style was too slow, other mistakes were made
• Moyes burdened by stigma of his Old Trafford failure
• Rio Ferdinand: Moyes’s tactics at United were embarrassing’
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/21/alex-ferguson-david-moyes-manchester-united?CMP=twt_gu
Sensationalist headline doesn't say it wasn't his fault, after all he did choose him
• Former manager hits back at critics in updated book
• ‘Massive jump’ from Everton proved too big for Moyes
• Playing style was too slow, other mistakes were made
• Moyes burdened by stigma of his Old Trafford failure
• Rio Ferdinand: Moyes’s tactics at United were embarrassing’
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/21/alex-ferguson-david-moyes-manchester-united?CMP=twt_gu
Sensationalist headline doesn't say it wasn't his fault, after all he did choose him
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by RED Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:27 pm
SAF noticed Moyes was ageing and looking like crap too. He saw the pressure was eating the man up.
He will never admit it publicly, but I think he massively regrets choosing Moyes as his successor.
He will never admit it publicly, but I think he massively regrets choosing Moyes as his successor.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by B-Mac Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:30 pm
fergie has updated his book
will buy it now was waiting for the update
will buy it now was waiting for the update
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Re: THE OFFICIAL MOYES OUT THREAD
by Busby Babe Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:17 pm
He's the new manager of Real Sociedad. Will win the fans over when he says he wants to aspire to be Athletic Bilbao.
Quite happy we're not going to face him, you so know he would have beaten us. Robes can also sleep easy at night now.
Would wish Moyseh luck as well, but: https://vine.co/v/OOQhhbLpFtA
Quite happy we're not going to face him, you so know he would have beaten us. Robes can also sleep easy at night now.
Would wish Moyseh luck as well, but: https://vine.co/v/OOQhhbLpFtA
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