Re: The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça

by VendettaRed07 Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:10 am

REWB wrote:
Blue Barrett wrote:Its funny when people spout this "will never reach x status" nonsense. I remember when people said Messi would "never reach Ronaldinho's level." Their potentials are insane. How about we wait and see how they both turn out?

you joking? messi at hazards age was 3x the player, hazard is great but he just doesnt have the body structure to be a good a messi or ronaldo, those two are biological aliens, it just will never happen. Most hazard can reach is robbens level.

What do you mean by body structure?

Messi is a medical marvel. He defies all logic. lf anything, he has proved that no matter who you are, what you look like, or what body type you are.. You can be a GOAT.

by VendettaRed07 Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:14 am

Fußball wrote:

Slightly OT, but watching that makes me really miss those Barca VR Troopers kits Razz

by DuringTheWar Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:48 am

Fußball wrote:Neither Hazard nor Neymar will ever come close to Messi, that can be guaranteed already. This is a 3 year old video of Messi passing the ball (so footage from 17 - 23 years old, basically Hazard's career so far).

He was already passing the ball and creating chances like an elite #10. Both Hazard and Neymar are good passers, they definitely have an eye for their teammates, more than Ronaldo already, but neither is an elite creator. For example nowhere near Özil. Yet Messi is a superior creator than Özil. Apart from dribbling like Maradona and putting up goalscoring numbers like Gerd Müller. :lol:It's very easy to see that 23 year old Hazard is not going to turn into that kind of player. Messi was playing like Hazard is playing now when he was 17 basically, if not better.

I think it's also wrong that people said he wouldn't reach Ronaldinho's level. He was being compared to Maradona when he was like 18. See the comparisons after his famous Getafe goal. Ronaldinho himself said in his Ballon d'Or speech that "there is already a better player than me in Barcelona".

Ribery is about Hazard's ceiling.

Not sure with Neymar yet. He's much more raw, younger and playing his very first season in Europe. But next Messi he too is definitely not.

Has messi even done one rabona in his entire career? Considering how predominantly one footed he plays, his rabona record is absolutely pathetic mate

In all seriousness though, messi was not better at the age of 17 than hazard right now.

by futbol Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:13 am

Well, maybe not 17, but with 19 he was definitely more dominant already than Hazard with 23. This is Messi with 19 against one of the most cynical and defensive-minded teams in modern football history: Mourinho's prime Chelsea the season they won the Premiership with record numbers.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpmtk6_lionel-messi-vs-chelsea-2006_sport

Hazard making fun of Eboue yesterday doesn't even compare. Laughing

This is what Capello said about 18 year old Messi after the Barca - Juve Gamper trophy game:

“In my entire life I have never seen a player of such quality and personality at such a young age, particularly wearing the ‘heavy’ shirt of one of the world’s great clubs.

That guy can do whatever he wants with the ball. It’s impressive winning a world youth title this summer, but this was outstanding – this was playing with men, not against kids his own age.”

by sree999 Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:04 am

that 19 year old messi performance vs defensive mouthrinho chav$ea >> anything hazard has done in cl . go watch that match .
del horno was sent to break his leg by translator . messi overloaded the right wing . they couldn't handle a 19 year old boy . This wasnt the fluke rentie side that won the cl but a powerful defensive counter attacking chelsea coached by mouthrinho .

red card any day . not even a foul was given .

by Harmonica Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:44 am

sree999 wrote:hazard is 23 or 24 . i am sure by this age messi got ballan dor . messi @ 19 scored golazo . RIPped mouthrinhos chav$sea 2006 . @ 20 he was lead man for barca .

Messi was World #2 already at age 19. Hazard at 22 hasn't yet cracked Top 20.

The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça - Page 3 Evolution%202014

The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça - Page 3 Evolution%202014

by Valkyrja Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:01 am

Messi isn't a better creator than Ozil. Better player yes, but Ozil's vision and passing are better.

by futbol Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:02 am

Valkyrja wrote:Messi isn't a better creator than Ozil. Better player yes, but Ozil's vision and passing are better.

by Valkyrja Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:06 am

Fußball wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:Messi isn't a better creator than Ozil. Better player yes, but Ozil's vision and passing are better.

Just take a look at every assist Messi makes. The left winger makes a run inside the box, and he pulls the pass. Almost always. Ozil has much more variety. His long passes as well as his crossing is better.

by Blue Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:06 am

Hazard will crack the top 10 easily. I think he has a legit chance to win the award this year.

by futbol Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:39 am

Valkyrja wrote:
Fußball wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:Messi isn't a better creator than Ozil. Better player yes, but Ozil's vision and passing are better.

Just take a look at every assist Messi makes. The left winger makes a run inside the box, and he pulls the pass. Almost always. Ozil has much more variety. His long passes as well as his crossing is better.

Where else do you want him to pass without a centerforward infront of him in a 4-3-3? Laughing

If you want to see greater passing range watch him for Argentina.

Outside of the boot passes, lobs over the middle, 1-touch passes through the middle. If he were playing in a 4-2-3-1 behind 3 forwards like Özil did for Real Madrid, especially behind C. Ronaldo, Messi would rack up like 60 assists per season. Laughing

by The Franchise Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:56 pm

Ganso wrote:
sportsczy wrote:That's just because Brazil NT is far more marketable than Belgium NT. Hazard has lifted Belgium just as much as Hazard has lifed Brazil... you just don't see all their games on TV. Belgium NT was far lower too... the missed the last WC and Euro. So the rebuilding project was much, much bigger.
Hazard has 5 goals (2pk) in like 40-50 games for Belgium man

Dat marketing hype.

Lifted Belguim as much as Neymar has Brazil?!

Belgium coach:

"I once played with [Zinedine] Zidane. The ball was a part of him, nothing was impossible. I have the same feeling when Hazard has the ball,” Wilmots told L'Avenir.

"Eden knows what I expect of him and that I will not tolerate any laxity in matches.

“Drop once in effort, it is one too many times.

“If one day, I feel it is not in this spirit, I will do without him.

“He needs to improve his stats with the national team. Five goals, including two penalty kicks, in almost fifty games? This is not enough.

“I scored 29 times for Belgium and was less talented. Eden, I love him, but I ask him to be more decisive.”

by Adit Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:00 pm

Hazard's sealing at best is Ribbery...he is no where near..i repeat NO where near talented as Messi.

by lszanto Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:06 pm

Hazard with any consistency is already on Ribery's level. With a proper striker/finishers he'd easily have double or triple the amount of assists he has at the moment.

by Valkyrja Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:08 pm

Adit wrote:Hazard's sealing at best is Ribbery...he is no where near..i repeat NO where near talented as Messi.

no way. I can't believe how overrated the Frenchman has become overnight. Hazard probably doesn't have the potential to reach Messi's or Ronaldo's level, but certainly his ceiling is much bigger than Ribery's.

by Le Samourai Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm

Messi was better at everything, this conversation is just unfair.

Hazzard is an amazing talent, and someone lit a fire in him. He can certainly be the best in the world at some point. I just hope doesn't capitulate into what Cristiano is, he has the same determination, but his style is still selfless.

by Gil Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:47 pm

You guys just got his NT manager who compared him to the great Zidane without blinking an eye and you think this is an indictment on Hazard?

I don't think he'll ever match Messi's & Ronaldo's yearly consistency without a direct rival pushing him to improve every year but it's not completely impossible to reach one of his peak seasons. If lesser talented players like Suarez & Ibrahimovic can do it then it's not a target that's completely out of the orbit for Eden. He's talented, assured in his ability and has acknowledged he needs to score more to ever reach their level so I wouldn't put it past him.

He doesn't have Messi's explosiveness over the first 5 yards but from what I've seen this season his all round game is already his level. He just needs to become more decisive like Wilmots said and that'll come over time. The same criticism was leveled off at both Messi & Ronaldo earlier on in their careers if you remember correctly.

Like my man Le Samoroui already noted Hazard is a completely selfless player, he'll always look for the pass before he takes a shot. A statistic that emphasizes this point is the fact he's 4th in the PL in goalscoring yet averages the 31st most shots in the League. This is of course partly because he doesn't take up the attacking positions the likes of Ronaldo & Messi do but you have to acknowledge he's playing a different role than those two.

I think next season when we eventually move away from "give Eden the damn ball and lets see what happens". Both the team and Hazard will evolve into the very elite.....a left back that completely dominates his flank a la Marcelo/Alves in Shaw will take a load of burden off Hazard. A World Class centre midfielder to pair with Matic which relives Hazard the duty of taking up interior positions to help build up play & keep us ticking but instead force him to take up more devestating positions in the final 3rd. And of course....as well as old man Eto'o has been doing all things considered, a striker who's movement isn't completely shit and can finish the chances Hazard will create.

Hazard's highlights so far this season. What a player!

by Mr Nick09 Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:58 pm

lszanto wrote:Hazard with any consistency is already on Ribery's level. With a proper striker/finishers he'd easily have double or triple the amount of assists he has at the moment.

good lord, the lots of you are highly delusional

by Winter is Coming Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:20 pm

Uncanny wrote:Yea it's a bit unfair to compare their individual impacts on their perspective clubs because taking hazard out if the Chelsea xi, will give you a significantly weaker team. Taking Neymar out of barca doesn't really make any difference, in fact they will pretty much remain the same. So I'm going to give it to hazard on this one, but if you consider their national teams, then Neymar is the absolute stone wall figure that makes a difference for Brazil.

Well thats because Hazard is the main guy at Chelsea, were as Messi is the main guy at Barcelona. If you look at the games Neymar played when Messi wasn't there he held himself pretty well. We also need to consider the fact that its not only Neymar first season in Barcelona, but his first season in Europe in general, which Hazard has spent a lot of time in and gotten use to at this time and its his second season at Chelsea as well, so this will favour him, but the fact still remains that dispute all this Neymar is still having a fantastic season, one can argue just as good as Hazard.

by Donuts Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:30 pm

Why do people do this to young prospects..

why ever compare someone to Messi, a player can be great still by being worse then Messi believe it or not, he isn't the bar for greatness.

by LeSwagg James Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:09 pm

Harmonica wrote:
sree999 wrote:hazard is 23 or 24 . i am sure by this age messi got ballan dor . messi @ 19 scored golazo . RIPped mouthrinhos chav$sea 2006 . @ 20 he was lead man for barca .
Messi was World #2 already at age 19. Hazard at 22 hasn't yet cracked Top 20.

R9 >>>

The greatest ever prodigy.. The Chosen One

by Gil Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:25 pm

Injuries really robbed us of the best of R9. Most talented player. Ever.

And stop with the stupid charts and infographics you nutjob. Players develop at different rates.

by Blue Barrett Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:02 pm

Its amazing how people now expect every player to become a ballon d'Or winner at age 20 or whatever age Messi won it just because...

There are SO MANY players who didn't reach world class/dominating status until even their mid 20's. Most obvious that comes to mind is Drogba.

How about we shut up with the Messi comparisons? They don't even have a similar game, nor do they play the same position. This thread was comparing Neymar & Hazard, not Messi & Hazard.

The fact is, you have NO IDEA what he's going to become(nor Neymar). Even after winning the ballon d'Or in 2008, I don't think many people expected Ronaldo to become the ruthless goal machine he is right now. He's 5 times better than he was in 2008 and if it wasn't for Messi in the equation, he'd be in the conversation for greatest ever. Lie to yourself and say you always knew Ronaldo would become even better. Go on.

FFS even someone like Bale, no one knew he'd ever be this good as recent as January 2012.

Players develop at different rates and at different stages. Can we stop the silliness?

by M99 Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:07 am

Gil wrote:Injuries really robbed us of the best of R9. Most talented player. Ever.

And stop with the stupid charts and infographics you nutjob. Players develop at different rates.

Agree. Where was Xavi on the Balon D Or list when he was 25? Look what he turned oout to be, one of the greatest CMs of all time.

by jibers Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:04 am

M99 wrote:
Gil wrote:Injuries really robbed us of the best of R9. Most talented player. Ever.

And stop with the stupid charts and infographics you nutjob. Players develop at different rates.

Agree. Where was Xavi on the Balon D Or list when he was 25? Look what he turned oout to be, one of the greatest CMs of all time.

R9 was nowhere near Diego Maradona, even at his peak. I wish people here actually watched that man play. Maradona was a level above R9 as is Messi.

by Casciavit Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:27 pm

Gil wrote:You guys just got his NT manager who compared him to the great Zidane without blinking an eye and you think this is an indictment on Hazard?

I don't think he'll ever match Messi's & Ronaldo's yearly consistency without a direct rival pushing him to improve every year but it's not completely impossible to reach one of his peak seasons. If lesser talented players like Suarez & Ibrahimovic can do it then it's not a target that's completely out of the orbit for Eden. He's talented, assured in his ability and has acknowledged he needs to score more to ever reach their level so I wouldn't put it past him.

He doesn't have Messi's explosiveness over the first 5 yards but from what I've seen this season his all round game is already his level. He just needs to become more decisive like Wilmots said and that'll come over time. The same criticism was leveled off at both Messi & Ronaldo earlier on in their careers if you remember correctly.

Like my man Le Samoroui already noted Hazard is a completely selfless player, he'll always look for the pass before he takes a shot. A statistic that emphasizes this point is the fact he's 4th in the PL in goalscoring yet averages the 31st most shots in the League. This is of course partly because he doesn't take up the attacking positions the likes of Ronaldo & Messi do but you have to acknowledge he's playing a different role than those two.

I think next season when we eventually move away from "give Eden the damn ball and lets see what happens". Both the team and Hazard will evolve into the very elite.....a left back that completely dominates his flank a la Marcelo/Alves in Shaw will take a load of burden off Hazard. A World Class centre midfielder to pair with Matic which relives Hazard the duty of taking up interior positions to help build up play & keep us ticking but instead force him to take up more devestating positions in the final 3rd. And of course....as well as old man Eto'o has been doing all things considered, a striker who's movement isn't completely shit and can finish the chances Hazard will create.

Hazard's highlights so far this season. What a player!

Ruining a decent post, with a part like that.

Gil Laughing

by Sponsored content