Juventus are the biggest flop in europe this year

They need an elite forward. Tevez doesn't make good runs and his finishing is poor while Llorente is far too slow and limited in the things he can do. Need a guy the CBs actually need to worry about constantly.

i think they need to feed the forwards better as it by now their main source is pirlo and thats not enough

lets see about pirlo as their main play maker

do you see all effort to feed them failed at least in typical over head lobed pass, something i know pirlo for doing

Zealous wrote:

juventus101 wrote:I tried to hide my frustration saying I wasnt mad but I was and it came out in that one sentence. Overall though all I was saying is  that even though some people will call it flopping, I disagree. Just ny looking at the scoreline you could say we flopped yes, but we were the better team in the second leg and the firs leg was very even. Same thing against Madrid. Very even first leg, we were better in the second leg. Who wins is not nwcessarily always better, unless for example you considered Chelsea better than Bayern and Barca in 2011/12. Dont know how that can even be argued.

And seriously Tom, grow up and stop insulting me. At this point its pathetic by you that you make such a habit of insulting me for no reason. Very childish.

It's pretty insulting that you've made a habit of posting this drivel after every Juventus/Bayern loss.

Both Bayern and Juventus got knocked out in embarrassing fashion and you're out here posting about how Juve were better than the teams they deservedly lost to

I dont understand how you can be insulted by my opinion on such a matter. Im not insulting anyone in any which way or form.

Ive already discussed my views of the Bayern game. The Juventus games were hardly embarassing. Anyone who actually watched the game could easily see that we were the better team. They just finished their chances better, but that doesnt make them better. Now instead of apl you guys laughing at me and insulting me, why dont you answer one simple question for me:

Going by your logic, that goals = better, were Chelsea better than Bayern and Barcelona in 2011/12? Or how about Greece in 2004, were they better than Portugal?

And by the way, I hardly post here after every Bayern or Juve loss. In fact ive barely been on at all lately because ive been far too busy. So please just stop.

curiously enough Marchisio even though i dont even like him helped them in terms of getting forward once he entered the pitch

Well for sure Juve out of this final is disappointing, but they have been owning their league many times with victories by 1 goal over way weaker opponents. They had a few chances on this game v Benfica and I wonder if this amount of criticism would be on their backs if they had scored once.

That graph is wrong, i clearly recall pogba lofting a ball inside the box for some runner on the left. anyway, neither pogba or vidal are consistently able to create chances through passing, which is a bit of a weakness for them. It almost always falls down to Pirlo to play the long through ball.

Most of the time when juve attack, Pirlo plays lichtsteiner or asamoah wide,  and they cross to llorente, tevez, pogba and vidal inside the box, try to head it in or to take advantage of second chances because of their numerical advantage. that's their go to pattern. Luisao and Garay just cleaned up all the crosses last night, and juve were extremely poor on second chances.

Hard to create chances when the runs are poor. The runs by the Juve forwards are very poor imo.

juventus101 wrote:

Zealous wrote:

juventus101 wrote:I tried to hide my frustration saying I wasnt mad but I was and it came out in that one sentence. Overall though all I was saying is  that even though some people will call it flopping, I disagree. Just ny looking at the scoreline you could say we flopped yes, but we were the better team in the second leg and the firs leg was very even. Same thing against Madrid. Very even first leg, we were better in the second leg. Who wins is not nwcessarily always better, unless for example you considered Chelsea better than Bayern and Barca in 2011/12. Dont know how that can even be argued.

And seriously Tom, grow up and stop insulting me. At this point its pathetic by you that you make such a habit of insulting me for no reason. Very childish.

It's pretty insulting that you've made a habit of posting this drivel after every Juventus/Bayern loss.

Both Bayern and Juventus got knocked out in embarrassing fashion and you're out here posting about how Juve were better than the teams they deservedly lost to

I dont understand how you can be insulted by my opinion on such a matter. Im not insulting anyone in any which way or form.

Ive already discussed my views of the Bayern game. The Juventus games were hardly embarassing. Anyone who actually watched the game could easily see that we were the better team. They just finished their chances better, but that doesnt make them better. Now instead of apl you guys laughing at me and insulting me, why dont you answer one simple question for me:

Going by your logic, that goals = better, were Chelsea better than Bayern and Barcelona in 2011/12? Or how about Greece in 2004, were they better than Portugal?

And by the way, I hardly post here after every Bayern or Juve loss. In fact ive barely been on at all lately because ive been far too busy. So please just stop.

How were you better? You clearly were NOT the better team because Benfica was in control the whole time. The closest Juventus came to scoring was a fluke Vidal header that almost went in.

To answer your question, I never said goals=better (although I'd rather score more goals then be "better" lol) Benfica defended great and obviously showed better finishing than Juventus did. Chelsea were not "better" than Bayern or Barca at passing the ball around but they had a great desire to win and had lady luck on their side. Greece were deserving winners in 2004, Portugal would have deserved to win but you can't blame Greece for defending well and winning games in a knockout tournament.

But that is irrelevant because just because Chelsea or Greece were not better than the teams they faced doesn't mean that Benfica were not. You're linking two completely different scenarios to make yourself feel better.

You should feel embarrassed that you can't see your team's obvious weaknesses and instead choose to blame luck or whatever for losing. I guess you are a lot like your disgrace of a manager who was whining like a little girl after the game.

yup no doubt in garay quality he is a really good cb IMO, one that i wanted as 3rd choice or to rotate with our current cd's. JUve have like quag-vucinic-tevez-llorente-osvaldo they cant go just add one more, that'd be stupid

Thing with Garay is that Juve never attacked his achille's heel: His speed. He has a lot of trouble defending pace. Juve's laborious style was perfect for him.

Good CB... but he has this flaw which does get exposed.

Yes....yes they are.  
Time to stop being cheap and invest in some quality attacking players, so we don't have to resort to this ridiculous formation we play in now.
I knew the moment this clown subbed in Osvaldo and Giovinco, that we wouldn't see another goal.

just Italian medias can think Pogba really can be rated as 70 mln

I accepted my teams flaws. Please show me one time I said we were unlucky or that it had anything to do with luck. I said that the 352 is not good because the wing play is poor and our finishing was poor. Outside of that im sorry we dont really have any weaknesses. We created plenty of chances through our central midfield and were very very good defensively over the two legs. I mean we let one goal in from a set piece and another from a miracle goal. Both were also faults of Bonucci but oh well no ones perfect. Fact is though that we were the better team. I cant even put into words how to explain it. If you think, scoreline aside, that Benfica was better than us then you clearly didnt watch the game.

Arguing that one team is "better" than another is one of the most pointless argument in footy. It's like that elusive title of best team in the world which doesnt really mean anything, and changes year to year, or maybe even every 3 month.

The bottom line is, can you win titles? can you get silverware, can you demonstrate your quality through winning CL or league titles. Whatever that quality is, whether it's determination, perseverance like chelsea did, or technique like when barca won, or bayern last year showing they were the team most gifted physically and tactically.

Better means 0, Juventus played Benfica home and away, and Benfica proved to be the team with most resources to move forward and to give themselves a chance at winning another europa league. it's that simple. They showed superiority the tie in their home stadium, and defended that advantage expertly, snuffing out all your attempts on goal. yet you have the audacity to claime Juventus were better?

All that discussion about who was better is a glorious waste of everyone's time. You were better and you lost at home in front of your fans without even scoring 1 goal, 3x times italian champs? fck me, i didnt know footy was about losing and then singing kumbaya around fire.

juventus101 wrote:          

To save myself the headache I agree that you were the bitter better team, happy?

You still got knocked out at home in a European Semi in embarrassing fashion though, not even you can deny that (although I suspect you're stubborn and delusional enough to do so).

Again with the insults. I dont understand what is wrong with some of you. Always insulting others on an internet forum. Grow up people. Im done with this debate, im sick of being insulted.

I am tired of juventusBayern101's tears

Attacking all the time doesn't make you better than the opponent . It just makes you the more aggresive side. Better is the one side which has the answers to what you hope to achieve and succeeds with their plans in stopping you , it doesn't matter how they manage that as long as they do , i leave the rest for the purists to argue about. And Benfica not only had all the answers , but they were ready to force themselves uppon Juventus first chance they could . In control of the outcome , that is who is better. Juventus lost away and failed to even score at home , against a side that not only isn't famous for their defence , but hold on even with 9 players for almost 10 minutes at the end. Does that seem to you the better side? Would you say the same about a team indefferent to you ? i really doubt it .

Calling yourselves better juventus101 is lack of self respect . Because you clearly can't tell the difference . 1000 attacks without a goal is worse than the team who succesfully defended that but had 1 succesfull shot at goal. They stopped you fair and square at your OWN game , at your OWN ground. Proved themselves worthy enough to play in the final whilst you failed to put them to the sword , never forgetting they also won you at home.

Like i've said before and i strongly believe in this , most tend to temporarily lose self respect after a failure and thus resort to knee jerk or escaping , something like Pirlo did.. by refusing to congratulate and accept the superiority of the opponent , you only diminish yourselves even further.

It agrees who sees analogies between Conte and Mancini  It reminds for some thing that Inter of Mancini who walked in Italy but it was a normal team in Europe. Same thing with Juve . On the other hand Conte has no experience in European cups before of Juventus.
I have seen to play the Napoli this year in Champions League, another level than Juve, I ' ve doubts Juve would have played in this way in Napoli's group stage , although in Italy it's the contrary. It s not surely a case. Napoli has a manager who can how you must play in Europe. Because if Conte thinks to lay down the law as it does in Italy he departs on the wrong foot. as Inter fan I have direct experience in this . many talk always of Mourinho exclusively as " parking the bus " but he was probably the last manager of an Italian top club to play in European way" , so not Mancini-esque , Allegri-esque or Conte---esque , passing from Mancini rombo to 4231 , of course helped  by the interpreters because clearly if you have the former N.10 of Real Madrid as  trequartista (Sneijder) or N.9 of Barcellona (Eto'o) as winger it's easier :lol:it s not same thing to have Diamanti or Cerci , just mentioning past 2 transfermarket 's targets of Juve in those two roles. and infact that team not only defended perfectly but it could counterattack very well as it was against Barca at San Siro or Chelsea at Stamford Bridge for example.
While Benfica aganst Juve yesterday, as said rightly by Zealous , was in control the whole time. The closest Juventus came to scoring was a fluke Vidal header . And Juve had one man in more in last 25 minutes.

Embarassing apathy.
It reminded really Inter of Mancini who got knocked out by Valencia for 2 ties in 2006/2007 because it was not able to create chances in return match against Valencia (2-2 ,0-0 )  although it must score and it knew it from beginning match. Also in that year we had record points in Serie A  as Juve did this year , but who cares really about it?
The cups count , not these records , and Juve lost an enormous chance yesterday to win an European cup (as us in 2007 , of course not same regret because it was not a semi-final but we also had a great potential to win the cup , with many prime players . Yes, similitaries.)

No attacking mids/playmakers. No Wingers, no pace and nobody who can take their man on

Wing-backs being our attacking outlet in the final 3rd, static forwards etc etc.

We can fix most of these flaws, hell fixing one or two would drastically improve us. Why can people not accept we weren't good enough. I don't give a damn about the 'we played better' trophy. I care about actually winning games.

I'd be 100% ok with Conte buying some Wingers, working on counter attacks and turning us into a counter attacking outfit. So long as it worked.


Possession and other statistics are valued far too highly by some people. It means f*ck all. And I don't want to hear a *bleep* thing about 'luck' that's the biggest BS excuse of all. It's only really applicable if 1 team is robbed by the reff, hits the post 3 times and conceded a once in a decade deflection.

Bravo Tom, there is no trophy for losers, and only shame for those who lose and scream they were the better team.

Serie A are in their lowest form since WW2.

People talk about Juve needing to sign elite forwards, but who is available that's so much better than Tevez?

Lewandowski, Cavani, Ibra, Aguero, Suarez, Messi, Benz, Ronaldo, Bale, Reus etc level are all already in teams that probably either won't be looking to sell or they will cost too much.

You've got Falcao and Costa who will probably go for sale this summer but can you really see Juve competing with Chelsea's oligarch in a transfer bidding.

Their only choices are either second tier forwards like Dzeko, Mandzukic, Ba who they can definitely sign and attract OR complete gems that no one has heard of who haven't broken through to the top level yet but are on the brink (Muriel? Vela?)

Can you really say Dzeko and Mandzukic are so much better than Tevez? Absolutely not. Carlitos is probably at the same level if not better.

If I was Juve I'd splash the cash on Vela-Griezmann pair.

If they can grab alexis sanchez, and buy the other half of Gabbiadini, Zaza, Immobile, and Berardi, they should be able to make the switch with no problem. theres even the chance for a lukaku or lavezzi (however big or small it is). Nani when motivated is a beast, Kagawa doesn't get playing time for United, Cuadrado will probably go to a richer club, but they have a very good relationship with Udinese, which brings up Muriel also.
Pepe cant stay hurt forever either (or can he). theres definetly options.

Tomwin Lannister wrote:No attacking mids/playmakers. No Wingers, no pace and nobody who can take their man on

Wing-backs being our attacking outlet in the final 3rd, static forwards etc etc.

We can fix most of these flaws, hell fixing one or two would drastically improve us. Why can people not accept we weren't good enough. I don't give a damn about the 'we played better' trophy. I care about actually winning games.

I'd be 100% ok with Conte buying some Wingers, working on counter attacks and turning us into a counter attacking outfit. So long as it worked.


Possession and other statistics are valued far too highly by some people. It means f*ck all. And I don't want to hear a *bleep* thing about 'luck' that's the biggest BS excuse of all. It's only really applicable if 1 team is robbed by the reff, hits the post 3 times and conceded a once in a decade deflection.

+1

juve101 you disappoint me   

we were sh*t accept it and move on, almost all Juve fans bar a few that are either still sucking Conte's balls /or still lost their minds since yesterday are still clinging to the "we were better *bleep* sh*t"

Conte's stubbornness have cost us and still will time and time again till he himself sees that his wank formula (3-5-2) in't no damn fkn sh*t...

come on we beat a Serie A where practically 90% of the teams play 3-5-2 and just at the name Juve decide on how much balls will enter their net and actually not if they can even draw vs us....

Conte is clueless (something I hit on 2 seasons ago and was criticized by all and sundry, well we were winning so all criticized me as always, well it is clear today is it not)

its funny in the season we went unbeaten, we were actually playing 4-3-3, what happened to it? and i bet 3-5-2 straw clutchers have all too soon forgotten just like Conte, (move a few pages back, I stated why I still think Antonio Stubbornte will still play 3-5-2 next season )

we can have all the Ronaldos and Messis, but with 3-5-2 we'll not go anywhere

yes Marotta and Agnelli are cheap as f**k and deserve blame for this failure as well, but as much as Conte would like to hold hostages, he is 95% the majority holder in the blame game

and nice to see you back trollssonero23